My Problem With The Concept Of Valkyr Prime

[Queen_Crimson]

Couldn't DE just write off her current origin as obsolete and create a new story like they did with various other descriptions? I see these plot holes myself, but will ignore them until I see new lore about her. The Gersemi did throw all of this out of loop.

 

Well, that'd be a massive loss, since she's the only interesting one story-wise. Honestly, people often like her more just because she actually has a personality, which not many warframes have. Having a character you understand and can connect to in a way is the key to making someone like a character, besides the abilities. They can't even destroy her lore, it's already too set in and everyone knows of it, it'd be like trying to rip a page out of a book everyone's read, they'd all know it's missing. Gersemi's supposed to be a solution to the mystery of what she looked like pre-Corpus, even if I don't like how it looks too much.

[xRufus7x]

From the Wiki:

"According to Nova's profile, her Warframe was a result of Tenno High Council research. This is widely believed to be a nod to the Design Council that aided in Nova's creation."

This basically implies that Nova was produced Post Fall of the Orokin, and SHOULDN'T have a Prime...

 

I do agree on Valk though. I have NO idea where I heard it, but I recall hearing that "Original" Valk was a Plant/Life warframe

There was never any mention of when the council was active. It could have been during the Orokin age. Also, this was retconned out of existence.

[KiloFoxx]

Well, that'd be a massive loss, since she's the only interesting one story-wise. Honestly, people often like her more just because she actually has a personality, which not many warframes have. Having a character you understand and can connect to in a way is the key to making someone like a character, besides the abilities. They can't even destroy her lore, it's already too set in and everyone knows of it, it'd be like trying to rip a page out of a book everyone's read, they'd all know it's missing. Gersemi's supposed to be a solution to the mystery of what she looked like pre-Corpus, even if I don't like how it looks too much.

Yeah that's my thinking. Valk is one of my favorite frames partly due to gameply but in a large way due to her story and personality. I love the lore surrounding her and wish they'd expand upon it rather than retcon it away >.<

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

I'm pretty sure Valkyr Prime will have the same skills as Regular Valkyr.

 

There's still many grey areas in regards to what exactly are Warframes. We know of the Operator now, but the warframes are still rather clouded in mystery.

 

One thing that we know is that warframes pack an organic "something" inside them, since they can bleed and need oxygen.

 

Apparently, that something might not be a normal human being , judging by how Alad V claims that what was inside a frame didn't make sense, that they didn't seem to have eyes, ears or perhaps even mouths to talk (well, valkyr does scream, so who knows).

 

Personally, I'm tempted to think that what's inside a frame was once a human being, but twisted by the void / the technocyte virus / both... Nowadays, I think the organic matter inside a frame is probably closer to an infested tumor node than a human being... With some form of basic reflexes and functions remaining. The Orokin probably sacrificed numerous guinea pigs to void/virus test to create creatures that could be incased in an exoskeleton, then controlled by the Tenno.

 

Then there's the theory that inside the frames are those people that are recovered in cryopods... Which also makes sense, but does give the ankward impression that Tennos are kidnappers, in the sense where they hijack people in cryopods, fit them into tin suits then take over their mind so they can channel their power better, perhaps sending them into the void or injecting them with the technocyte virus in the process to make them compatible with the frame.

 

The other theory is that the organic matter inside the tenno is built in the foundry using stuff like nano spores, neurodes and so on... Basically mixing and matching organic components to create some sort of nervous system to interface with the metal parts... Hence the warframes would not have humans inside, but have organic components fused with metallic components.

 

As for the Orokin Era frames, I think the idea is that orokin technology was much better , and the initial prototypes were of higher quality. With time, the Lotus and company were able to reproduce the frames using modern components... The fact that , as DE said, all frames will have Primes hints that all frames used to exist before the end of the old war.

 

As for the creature inside the frame, I tend to think that they are crucial in explaining what the frame is all about. Male frames used to have a male surrogate in them, just as female frames had a female surrogate in them... And I assume the frame's power are a direct consequence of the being that was used to create the initial frame.... I assume that nowadays, when a frame is mass produced, an inprint of the initial surrogate is also created, just like you can clone grineer or clone kubrows... Maybe the Helmet and Chassis are metal parts, and the systems are basically a reproduction of the nervous system of the person that was used in the initial frame... I dunno. In the end, it would mean each frame's power is the result of the influence of the Tenno's power on the surrogate's own skillset and life experience... Like for exemple, one could examine Hayden Tenno being the guy inside the original Excalibur, or a great ninja warrior being encased into the initial Ash, a trickster into Loki. This would make the Warframes interesting , as it would reek of martyrdom, of people of great value being ready to sacrifice themselves to become one with a frame so that other people can use them to save the world.

 

When a frame like Limbo is destroyed, and if one manages to recover the schematics to rebuild his parts, i'm guessin the prints also include the required material to bring back to life a copy of the initial surrogate... It also explains why frames like your starter frame were kept in a cryopod... They have organic matter in them , hence if they do not want to decay over time, they need to be cryo frozen when they are not needed to defend the galaxy and restore balance.

 

So if a Valkyr Prime ever is created, i'm guessing she would have the same skill set as the regular Valkyr, only perhaps being less angry in her demeaneaor. Maybe her scream would be removed, I dunno... I think nowadays, the imprint of the surrogate might have been influence, or perhaps the Operator has grown used to using Valkyr with her experimented upon self and will transpose her skills on her previous self.

 

In the end, if all Valkyrs are pretty much identical copies of the one valkyr that was experimented upon by alad v, controlled by numerous child tennos, then we can assume that all frames are essentially clones, duplicates, and that the operator is the one controlling and learning to use them to their full potential.

Edited January 24, 2016 by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra

[(PSN)BlitzKeir]

Couldn't DE just write off her current origin as obsolete and create a new story like they did with various other descriptions? I see these plot holes myself, but will ignore them until I see new lore about her. The Gersemi did throw all of this out of loop.

They could... but retcons are something you should only do as a last resort. If possible, invent some reason that it makes sense, and if possible, make that reason not dumb. Optimally, the explanation makes things more interesting.

 

But, the Gersemi skin doesn't break lore. It's just a suit modification that you craft, the person inside is the same as the one inside the normal Valkyr frame - oh. That would mean the one in the Valkyr Prime would be the same, too... which means we're not all using the Valkyr frame, we're all using the exact same Tenno.

 

Huh. I guess it never made sense to begin with.

[motorfirebox]

Well, the Tenno is the kid operating the Warframe through transference, not whatever flesh lives inside the frame itself. We don't know yet if an individual operator's multiple Warframes are each separate beings, or if it's one being that can put on (or change into) different Warframes, or what.

 

Regardless, Valkyr's rage isn't an aspect of the Tenno, it's an aspect of the frame itself. Each Valkyr that is built has the rage. We've seen multiple Warframes working together, so we know they're not all operated by a single Tenno.

[(PSN)BlitzKeir]

I think it's reasonable to assume that a person occupies the warframes, considering they can be injured, bleed and die, and act autonomously. Plus Lephantis and Jordas both say that they are your flesh, and they're clearly not talking about the operator. I stated my theory on the first page that the people in the suits are the counterpart of a Tenno, created using whatever resulted in the infestation, to serve as a conduit for the Tenno's powers. (Specifically, they are the people you're rescuing in the cryopods.)

 

I'm aware each warframe of the same type is not canonically the exact same warframe. That's why I'm saying it's a conflict. Judging by Excalibur Prime's codex entry, the warframes are clearly intended to be occupied by a person. I think originally, they put void-forged Tenno in the suits, and later came up with the idea of transference, and started mutating people - perhaps even Tenno - into living conduits.

 

Note that you are completely helpless at the end of the Second Dream, until you touch your warframe. As long as it maintains direct contact with you, you can channel your powers - even in your weakened, disoriented state. As soon as contact is lost, you can only lie there. I think that the suits, and especially the infested mutants inside, are what turn a Tenno's natural power into a weapon.

[motorfirebox]

Personally, I'm moving more and more towards the idea that a Warframe is a complete being, rather than a person in a suit per se. You can crack open a frame and get at the flesh inside, but it's more like cracking open a crab's shell than cracking open a knight's plate armor. They're infested, but it's a controlled infestation that expresses itself according to the blueprints you use to make new frames. The people from the cryopods might be these infested 'blank slates', but I dunno.

 

I don't think there's a conflict, with regards to Valkyr. I think Alad found a Gersemi frame, tortured it, and created the Valkyr blueprints from it. The blueprints contain Valkyr's rage, not just her physical form. The Valkyr you're playing isn't the one that was tortured, but it contains all of the tortured frame's memories.

[Technologic141]

Valkyr Umbra will make more sence. Gersemi capturet by sentients and trained against lotus and tennos. Abilties can be scaned by oculysts so no plot hole about her powers (they scaned all tennos many times).
Hell yea sentients story can continue.

Valkyr prime ..... um it was first, best, oldes and bla bla bla. No thanks.

offtopic.: I never understod why all frames must have prime for ? Did rly players want this ?!
 

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

Valkyr Umbra will make more sence. Gersemi capturet by sentients and trained against lotus and tennos. Abilties can be scaned by oculysts so no plot hole about her powers (they scaned all tennos many times).

Hell yea sentients story can continue.

Valkyr prime ..... um it was first, best, oldes and bla bla bla. No thanks.

offtopic.: I never understod why all frames must have prime for ? Did rly players want this ?!

 

 or valkyr just accidentally fell into a lake of liquid forma one day and became valkyr prime when she finally got out xD

[KiloFoxx]

 or valkyr just accidentally fell into a lake of liquid forma one day and became valkyr prime when she finally got out xD

No, no, no, nono, nononono, no, no

That would be a HUGE cop-out and would ROYALLY piss off SO many of us. especially those interested in her Lore, seeing as she's basically the only frame with any extensive amount of it.

Cop-outs are NEVER a good way to go about things. DE had BETTER do the work to Make Valkyr Prime expand the lore of Valk.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

While personally I agree that Valkyr Prime should have different ability set or tweaks to Valkyr abilities:

I could see DE deciding to use the vague description on Valkyr by saying the "Original Valkyr" was a hint at Valkyr Prime being tortured in the old Orokin Era.

Since Original should be Orokin Era or pre Orokin Era and not necessarily post Corpus dissection.

Yes pulling at straws, but I could see DE using it as justification.

Especially after the Sniper/Launcher Primary-Secondary ammo pool explanation of "Same Space Magic Juice Box"

[Queen_Crimson]

While personally I agree that Valkyr Prime should have different ability set or tweaks to Valkyr abilities:

I could see DE deciding to use the vague description on Valkyr by saying the "Original Valkyr" was a hint at Valkyr Prime being tortured in the old Orokin Era.

Since Original should be Orokin Era or pre Orokin Era and not necessarily post Corpus dissection.

Yes pulling at straws, but I could see DE using it as justification.

Especially after the Sniper/Launcher Primary-Secondary ammo pool explanation of "Same Space Magic Juice Box"

My personal hope/thoughts on Valkyr Prime is that normal Valkyr is the torn up version of Valkyr Prime, and Gersemi is the Tenno-ization of what the Prime previously looked like. Let's hope DE has the same idea.

[Inarticulate]

Until proven otherwise, I'm under the impression that Valkyr was always a bundle of angry and her stay with Alad V just made her more angry.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

My personal hope/thoughts on Valkyr Prime is that normal Valkyr is the torn up version of Valkyr Prime, and Gersemi is the Tenno-ization of what the Prime previously looked like. Let's hope DE has the same idea.

That works for me.

And would allow the Gersemi skin to just be a deluxe skin with no real-life attached.

I think DE made it awkward by claiming it as the "Pre-corpus" skin even though the Physical model of the non-stripped Variant is larger than the stripped-scarred Valkyr.

(*scoff...Void Magic)

[Himpapawid]

What

 

But Alad V is a Corpus, isn't he? What would be Orokin about him?

 

 

No idea, but that dialogue happens during the Second Dream quest. Now it could be Hunhow Generalizing, or seeing Similarities between Corpus and Orokin, or Alad V is more than he seems... We don't know yet. but we DO know Alad V knows more than he lets on at the VERY least

 

Some of the lore in the Sanctuary makes me believe the Corpus are remnants of the Orokin.

 

Imprint: CREWMAN

The word itself seems to be Orokin and refers to either possession(s) or group (family?) the Archimedian belonged to.

 

Imprint: ANTI MOA

Immediately after the fall of the Orokin we have traders/salvagers making a living off of Orokin tech using the same word again, this time it's definitely used as a synonym for family.

 

Definitely some allusions to RL world history, a collapse of an empire (Orokin) resulting in almost complete societal deterioration with the rest of the population (the would-be Corpus) scrambling for scraps to survive. Forces used to be relied on becoming similar to vicious hordes of "barbarians" tearing at what remains (Grineer) and forging their own empire.

 

Or maybe that was wrong and Hunhow is just insulting Alad V by calling him an Orokin because of how (and how many times) he does inhumane experiments.

 

...or maybe Hunhow needs glasses. 

[motorfirebox]

The Corpus are the most direct inheritors of the Orokin empire.

[(PSN)BlitzKeir]

offtopic.: I never understod why all frames must have prime for ? Did rly players want this ?!

 

'Cause they look neat.

 

Secretly, I'm disappointed every time a new Prime doesn't come with codex lore.

Edited January 30, 2016 by (PS4)BlitzKeir

[Specific.Zod]

I suppose the valkyr prime is between Gemini and corpus . Like this: orokin saw valkyr's potential, copy her power into more powerful form designed by orokin, while salad 5, knowing her power (Gemini), trying to replicate that with corpus part, which resulted into valkyr as we know. That only way to fill the hole of her lore.

[Circle_of_Psi]

My Theory:

 

I've got the feeling that due to that we had no idea that we where NOT the Warframes, and rather young adults, controlling them by our minds, that was shaped for us and each warframe has its own Tenno, made and shaped for.

 

Is that Valkyr was scarred and tortured by the Orokin, due to the tests and such, and THEN the void jump, made her even more scarred and that broke her mind and that was the opening that Alad V needed.

 

She became this, ball of rage, and it only got worse, when she was taken by Alad V, cuz let me tell you something, if you have a traumatizing past, you Will and Mind will be more acceptable to other events that are mimicing what happened in the past or close to it.

 

You become more scared, and easily pushed around or reminded of your past, knowing Valkyr, she must of remembered her past of the Orokin when Alad V, did the same thing, or even worse to her.

 

No one can ever forget such a traumatizing past, and key parts, in your memory, can trigger that pain you felt, when you had that traumatizing event, All Alad V did, was pull the strings, that made her remaber that traumatizing past.

 

Her powers, chuold of just been made, from her rage, ages ago, and she only really got the chance to "Use" them, when Alad V, had her, they got worse, more powerful.

Edited January 30, 2016 by LegionCynex

[Queen_Crimson]

'Cause they look neat.

 

Secretly, I'm disappointed every time a new Prime doesn't come with codex lore.

Very much same.

[(PSN)ArnnFrost]

Since Valkyr got her raging abilities after being tertured and her prime might be calm. Guess she'll become everyone's anime cat girl (insert name here) royal cat? xP plus she should look like the original one but without the corpus cuffs snd bolts on and ofc with golden unbroken parts

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

I think Valkyr should have a Valkyr Vandal instead.

So like the Excalibur Prime is the first of the Prime frames, Valkyr Vandal shall be the first of the Vandal frames.

I mean seriously how many warframes would the Orokin create in the first place?

[DiePainPain]

What

 

But Alad V is a Corpus, isn't he? What would be Orokin about him?

Alad V is a thief, he was stealing warframes those that try to assassinate on Jupiter. So just adding a storyline sending Alad V to the void to steal the prime warframe parts to re-construct a prime valkyr. Anyway they already sent the grineer captain Vor to void.

[(PSN)X1155752X]

Oh ffs, this topic again? I'm ignoring the lore discussion going on here and focusing on the gameplay related stuff, since it CLEMs me off to no end that some people say Valkyr Prime should have different abilities, so for everyone that suggests it, please read below;

 

 

There are two types of players; those that like Valkyr's gameplay, and those that don't.

 

Those that do like Valkyr's gameplay want Valkyr Prime to have the same gameplay, albeit with slightly buffed stats.

 

Those that want Valkyr Prime to have different gameplay do so because they don't like regular Valkyr's gameplay.

 

The people that want Valkyr Prime, want her because they like regular Valkyr's gameplay.

 

With all that said, why should DE upset the people that want Valkyr Prime, because of the people that either don't want her, or are indifferent?

 

 

Apologies if this comes off as passive aggressive, but it's the simplest way to word it. If you wish for Valkyr Prime to have different gameplay compared to regular Valkyr, first ask yourself why you want a Valkyr Prime at all.

Edited January 31, 2016 by (PS4)X1155752X