Fix Saryn's Rework, Please?

[paulogabbi]

allot of people is going to say you don't know how to play using her or you are one of the 4 to win players

 

but the truth is even frost can do more damage using only one skill

[(XBOX)TheMadCash]

Okay there's your first problem. "She's a female tank, that can't tank anymore."

She's not a Tank! She's a debuff supporter that supports her team so kills can be easier for Excalibur, Ash, & Ember. Molt is suppose to die a lil quick so it can feed into Masima & provide toxin dmg to your foes. Spore & Toxic Lash are your best friend. She's great. She doesn't need anything else.

[Issxi]

She is my main. I hated the press 4 to win aspect of her because it always stole peoples kills and that isn't fun for those people. They should've only changed her abilities and left her base health and energy costs instead of completely wrecking her. This rework was heresy.

[Inmemoratus]

Quick Thinking is your friend, especially since Saryn Prime got a massive armor and energy buff.

 

I don't see how having kills stolen matters. Spores spread when enemies die. That's what you want. Then the other enemies all get viral procs and die faster.

[R34LM]

I agree that the "spool" up of her combo can be slow. But it has been made clear that DE does not want what she was before. I don't think she is terrible at all, I find her adequate for high level play after getting used to her. But forums are a land of opinion, so you are entitled to your own as I am to mine.

[Umbra_Asterism]

Okay there's your first problem. "She's a female tank, that can't tank anymore."

She's not a Tank! She's a debuff supporter that supports her team so kills can be easier for Excalibur, Ash, & Ember. Molt is suppose to die a lil quick so it can feed into Masima & provide toxin dmg to your foes. Spore & Toxic Lash are your best friend. She's great. She doesn't need anything else.

THIS ^

 

Plus the 4 is now basically CC cause everything stops moving and writhes in agony while it's proc-ed.

P.S. the molt augment fixes her survivability "issues".

[WhiteMarker]

The only thing I'd like to have for Saryn are some Corrosive Procs for Miasma. Then she will be a real debuff supporter. Aside from that she is fine. And the Prime-Buff on her is amazing.

[Buzkyl]

On paper Saryn's kit is fair amazing.

 

1. I massive viral proc DoT

2 is an escape option +Toxin DoT

3 adds even more toxin DoT to melee

4. Increases damage for every Toxin or viral proc up to 300% more damage

 

Except when you look at it more closly you can see her kit does not scale fully. DoT's do mediocre damage to even level 60 enemies, Molt does not last long enough to make an escape, miasma stun is horrible and it's damage doesn't scale as well. At high levels saryn's best bet is her Spore and perhaps toxic Lash blocking bonus.

 

 

Why doesn't Miasma instead of gaining 100% bonus damage per toxin/viral proc on an enemy? If an enemy has 3 spores on them simaltanously ticking down miasma should already e doing 300% more damage per DoT. Combine it with the backload of Dots that can be gained via toxic lash and Miasma will be a real finisher move. Saryn is no longer a melee tank, she's a debuffer. However only 1 of her skills actually debuff enemies and that is Spore. At the very least miasma should be proccing corrosive status per tick.

[-dicht.Amducias-]

Okay there's your first problem. "She's a female tank, that can't tank anymore."

She's not a Tank! She's a debuff supporter that supports her team so kills can be easier for Excalibur, Ash, & Ember. Molt is suppose to die a lil quick so it can feed into Masima & provide toxin dmg to your foes. Spore & Toxic Lash are your best friend. She's great. She doesn't need anything else.

Debuff supporter? U joking right?

[Gregoriez]

If they are really going for the DOT theme, why the F*** did they keep miasma the same crappy nuke? They could have made miasma into a low damage toggle ability with a high range like maim just without the nuke and has corrosive procs instead of slash

Edited February 17, 2016 by Gregoriez

[EinheriarJudith]

allot of people is going to say you don't know how to play using her or you are one of the 4 to win players

 

but the truth is even frost can do more damage using only one skill

thats because they removed the need for the use of multiple duration mods before frost tweaks his damage was nothing unless you spec for it and if you did something else went to crap so saying he does more damage now with one skill is the result of DE tweaking his frame to not need unnecessary things.

[(XBOX)TheMadCash]

Debuff supporter? U joking right?

Are you joking? Sayrn is fine & I'm a lil irritated that ppl act like they can't play a support role if they aren't Trinity. Just because her skill set is all about DOTs. Doesn't mean she isn't powerful. Leave my girl Sayrn alone!

[Keltik0ne]

I quite enjoy the rework, with an EV Trin in your team and a viral proc ignis, you can really wreck the map. I usually gripe about the reworks but this one worked for me.

[EinheriarJudith]

I quite enjoy the rework, with an EV Trin in your team and a viral proc ignis, you can really wreck the map. I usually gripe about the reworks but this one worked for me.

ive got my ignis at 104.5% status like viral ignis and saryn is absolutely insane. ^_^

 

Edited February 17, 2016 by EinheriarJudith

[45neo]

Title.

 

High damage from ability combos you say? Too bad the combo is too slow, allowing all your kills to be taken by Excaliburs, Embers, Ash, and Lokis.

 

Play solo to avoid that? Too bad she can't scale into high level missions anymore and dies as quick as a Loki does, even with a MAX Vitality. Rejuvination AND Regenerative Molt alongside it can't even keep her alive, which should tell you obviously there is a problem.

 

Abilities DoTs powerful you say? Too bad the ticks are so slow enemies still mow you down. before they die. Oh not to mention they can be killed by spam-casters like Excalibur before you even kill them.

 

Seriously how can people be okay with how terrible she is now? She is the female tank, and can't tank anymore. She can't escape because enemies will ignore Molt half the time and still shoot you down. Molt dies as fast as Loki's Decoy does. The only abilities worth anything are Spore and Toxic Lash and those are mediocre at best. The fact that she is almost REQUIRED to bring a Torid, Tysis/Embolist, or Mire is terrible and limits how efficient we can be.

 

I don't care what the nay-sayers march in here with, but she needs to be fixed. At BEST she is pre-rework Rhino Tier, which is disgusting.

 

 

Stop ignoring the Saryn feedback out there DE and fix her now please.

Survives just as long as a loki... Thats great lokis tend to survive the whole mission without dieing.

 

but yes realistically for saryn to work as DE intends a health or armor buff is required.

[45neo]

On paper Saryn's kit is fair amazing.

 

1. I massive viral proc DoT

2 is an escape option +Toxin DoT

3 adds even more toxin DoT to melee

4. Increases damage for every Toxin or viral proc up to 300% more damage

 

Except when you look at it more closly you can see her kit does not scale fully. DoT's do mediocre damage to even level 60 enemies, Molt does not last long enough to make an escape, miasma stun is horrible and it's damage doesn't scale as well. At high levels saryn's best bet is her Spore and perhaps toxic Lash blocking bonus.

 

 

Why doesn't Miasma instead of gaining 100% bonus damage per toxin/viral proc on an enemy? If an enemy has 3 spores on them simaltanously ticking down miasma should already e doing 300% more damage per DoT. Combine it with the backload of Dots that can be gained via toxic lash and Miasma will be a real finisher move. Saryn is no longer a melee tank, she's a debuffer. However only 1 of her skills actually debuff enemies and that is Spore. At the very least miasma should be proccing corrosive status per tick.

your talking like level 60 enemies are super low level.

[MasterControl]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.. Let Miasma be a cloud of DoT and corrosion procs you set down on an area, and let Spores spread Corrosive procs. Done, she has anti-armor scaling for high level content and Miasma isn't just useless damage, it's a giant Torid cloud. Even comes with free build diversity for either making her a duration-range based status monster or a strength area of denial frame. She gets a unique role of locking down an area with the DoT DE always wanted her to be. That, and we'd finally have a viable alternate option to 4x Corrosive Projection.

Edited February 17, 2016 by Mastercontrol98

[Cyandana]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/611158-miasma-should-multi-proc-corrosive-status/#entry6895621

My suggestion here is sort of similar to the above poster. I think Saryn is ok with the right setup and an EV Trin (or max rank Zenurik) , just needs a bit help vs armor scaling.

[RealPandemonium]

I quite enjoy the rework, with an EV Trin in your team and a viral proc ignis, you can really wreck the map. I usually gripe about the reworks but this one worked for me.

 

ive got my ignis at 104.5% status like viral ignis and saryn is absolutely insane. ^_^

Why would you use a Viral Ignis when Spores always inflict Viral anyway?  Why not use Gas instead?  EV is also completely uncessary; I hardly ever run out of energy, even when I play similarly to the old p4tw playstyle.  Just use a weapon with reliable Toxin (Gas) procs to spread spores; that only requires an occasional cast of spore to prime the whole room (or the whole map if spawns are dense, such as in endless missions) for 3x damage Miasma (which will out-damage old Miasma by 87% when free Viral proc is considered, assuming 100% duration.)  

 

For reference, here's what I use on my Saryn to emulate the old max range room-cleaning 4spam build: http://goo.gl/d8S3hY .  It effectively deals 73% more total damage and takes twice as much time (4 seconds vs 2 seconds) to deliver the full amount of damage, but hardly uses any extra energy to do so.  Damage/DoT spread from Spores increases damage output, btw, and can make this build's raw DPS rival the old Miasma's as well with the proper Toxin proc source.  

 

Also, @ everyone who talks about survivabilty nerf, base EHP was reduced by around 13%.  However, armor was increased around 13% and Max energy was increased by 50%.  This makes all healing more effective (whether by Life Strike, Regenerative Molt, or other sources) and makes QT able to tank more burst damage for Saryn in maxcase (these appear to be melee-oriented changes intended for synergy with Toxic Lash.)  

 

EHP Numbers (minus shields): Old Saryn | New Saryn

 

No mods : 683 | 594

Vitality: 1684 | 1465

Steel Fiber : 938 | 834

Vitality + Steel Fiber: 2314 | 2058

 

In summary, Saryn lost ~13% EHP when not using Steel Fiber and ~11% with Steel Fiber.  Her healing is amplified by ~4%, or 6.7% with Steel Fiber.  There is no massive HP nerf that everyone is drumming up; it is a noticeable but not catastrophic nerf.

 

IMO, the simple solution here is to increase armor further so that EHP comes out even (or slightly better with Steel Fiber) but healing benefit is increased significantly and even more with Steel Fiber.)  An armor value of 250 would give slightly more EHP (688) than old Saryn while increasing healing by ~21% (or ~81% with Steel Fiber) vs old Saryn.  This would keep base EHP pretty much the same while incentivizing the use of armor mods and [potentially greatly] increasing the benefit of healing on Saryn, who has ample access to healing via Regen Molt, or Life Strike if you're in melee mode (which DE seems to want.)  

Edited February 17, 2016 by RealPandemonium

[Mr.Lube]

She is too stressful to use. Her abilities cost an energy fortune and if you don't use all of them in tandem you aren't doing the most damage you can. She is too stressful to use and combo with and she can't survive in higher missions anymore. Her rework is the only one I've seen as a complete failure. I disliked the press 4 to win aspect of her, but Miasma is a joke now hanging out with Volt's ultimate on the bench. Her health is too low and the armor doesn't make up for it. Saryn was always supposed to be the female melee tank, and she can't do either of those jobs now without becoming a super tryhard.

 

I'm a Saryn main, and I'm very upset that you guys still think she in a usable state after the 'rework' you gave her.

 

Please make her the melee tank she was before.

I don't get all these people saying that her energy costs are bad. I have trouble dropping below 530 energy while viral and toxin procing the entire planet.

 

Also, what do you mean by "becoming a super tryhard"?

[Mr.Lube]

Saryn is considered bad, Mesa is considered dead. That's the difference.

Compared to frames that completely break the game and nullify any sign of challenging gameplay whatsoever (Trinity, Valkyr, Loki etc..). It's sad that in order to be considered "good" a frame has to have a mass stun-lock, infinite energy, or invincibility. Too bad DE is too afraid of the community to make any real changes to frames like this.

[-CM-Hekovashi]

Haven't see a saryn for ages, and the last one that i've seen was sitting in the 1 place and constantly spam. No, not a 4 but 2-1-3-4 instead, just constant spam to be able to kill anything. Now thats what i call a good rework. She is pathetic thing after rework, that spam even more than before to be able to pull something.
She is a nuker? Hello ash, frost, excal.
A Debuffer? Hello nova, banshee, loki.
A CC frame?-Hello again nova, booben, again excal, again loki.
None of those require you to sit and build up something. Thats mine main problem-DoT frames in fast game like warframe is cancer.
You have to ether kill enemies here and now, or you cc them and then shoot, or you tank damage and don't give a hek. Reworked saryn is none of this.

[RealPandemonium]

Compared to frames that completely break the game and nullify any sign of challenging gameplay whatsoever (Trinity, Valkyr, Loki etc..). It's sad that in order to be considered "good" a frame has to have a mass stun-lock, infinite energy, or invincibility. Too bad DE is too afraid of the community to make any real changes to frames like this.

Well-put.  

 

The post above this one embodies the mindset you point out, using truisms to throw the reputations of unpopular frames into the gutter.  

Edited February 17, 2016 by RealPandemonium

[(PSN)Gulgor1]

Most of Saryns problems come from the fact that she needs all stats to function.

Spore spread radius and miasma dont have that great of a base range to begin with, and and duration is not great either. Damage is not high enough that the extra 300% from comboing would matter outside the star chart.

Stun duration for Miasma is pitiful, and damage is lower then most ultimates, while doing that over time as opposed to other ultimates that deal it instantly, often with great utility or crowd controll effects on the side.

 

Making the stun last the entire duration of miasma (effected by power duration) and mayby making it proc corrosive every tick (also helped by power duration) would give miasma some nice utility other then damage and round her kit more.

Molt having a short damage absorb time (like snow clobe and iron skin) and be effected by armour (as you are pushing her on that side enyway), would help with Molt lasting longer on higher lvl missions, and help Regenerative Molt last the entire 10sec time it needs.

[YasaiTsume]

I still like how people think Spores + Molt + Miasma combo takes a long time to setup. 

Takes mere seconds, and the ensuing explosion spreads the Spores for the caster.

Most of Saryns problems come from the fact that she needs all stats to function.

 

Not strictly true.

Some frames also require "All stats" to function, ie. Exalted Blade Excalibur who uses Blind.

What I would say is, Saryn's most effective build requires all stats to function.

I mean, if I were to run a pure Melee build, I would not need Range and Efficiency that much etc.