[Focus V1.1] It Is Not A Bug Anymore, It Is A Nerf.

[DarthyPoo]

 

A snippet from DERebecca in private chat:

 

6:57 AM DERebecca said: If you look at it in isolation:

6:58 AM DERebecca said: Before greater lenses Turned about 7% of affinity earned from that item into Focus

6:58 AM DERebecca said: Now greater lenses turn up to 10.5% with convergence, but it can include Radial/Shared XP

6:58 AM DERebecca said: So what factor you choose to include or ignore will determine your conclusion

 

Make of it what you will

 

 

Its no where near 10% at all... not even close. Basically as of now you get the focus thinger and you need to go ball to the walls as hard as you can to get the affinity for the focus.

[PsychedelicSnake]

Its no where near 10% at all... not even close. Basically as of now you get the focus thinger and you need to go ball to the walls as hard as you can to get the affinity for the focus.

I'm just posting what I was told. I'm neutral on the whole thing as far as reactions are concerned. Perhaps there really is a bug or there is some other modifier that wasn't mentioned, or it really was a nerf. I can't really say. Best to try and get a direct answer.

[DeMonkey]

 

A snippet from DERebecca in private chat:

 

6:57 AM DERebecca said: If you look at it in isolation:

6:58 AM DERebecca said: Before greater lenses Turned about 7% of affinity earned from that item into Focus

6:58 AM DERebecca said: Now greater lenses turn up to 10.5% with convergence, but it can include Radial/Shared XP

6:58 AM DERebecca said: So what factor you choose to include or ignore will determine your conclusion

 

Make of it what you will

 

Let's say you have Convergence running 33.33% of the time (and that's being generous), that's 33.33% at 10.5%, and 66.66% at 1.75%.

 

For every 100 affinity on that gear item you're getting 4.67 focus points. That's less than it was before, thus it's a nerf.

 

Not even mentioning how bad this is for players who don't run in a full squad.

 

Edit: Must say, little annoyed at the ''So what factor you choose to include or ignore will determine your conclusion'', kinda makes out that any negative reaction is purely our fault for not seeing it correctly.

 

Thread that goes into it further https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/609044-the-true-focus-conversion-rates/

Edited February 12, 2016 by DeMonkey

[VanguardT-EN-]

I expected the focus booster to come out as a help, but instead we depend on it now. My dreams about the new system were crushed (hard).

[ScorpDK]

The cynical part of me wants to believe this is all in preparation for their new market item - the Focus Booster. Increases the focus gain from affinity by 400% (which sounds much, but when you consider you apparently only get about 25% of what you used to...) for only 150 plat for 1 day, or 450 plat for 7 days. That's a steal! (no, literally, it is)

 

 

Good thing is that I got what I needed - my Zenurik has a rank 3 Energy Overflow, tho I only spent points into a rank 1 Mastery.

Which is okay, you only need to spent the first 4,2/3 minutes of a a tough survival/defense in your spawn room and wait until you can pop 5, then go in with your passive energy regen and play the game at your own pace. But by saying that I fear that DE will read this and tie the focus bar to kills or something to circumvent people having fun.

 

Maybe it's just a bug, maybe that's the way they envisioned their game and want people to play it the way they intended, maybe we're all but pawns in a much larger plan - nobody knows yet.

Edited February 12, 2016 by ScorpDK

[Keltik0ne]

 

A snippet from DERebecca in private chat:

 

6:57 AM DERebecca said: If you look at it in isolation:

6:58 AM DERebecca said: Before greater lenses Turned about 7% of affinity earned from that item into Focus

6:58 AM DERebecca said: Now greater lenses turn up to 10.5% with convergence, but it can include Radial/Shared XP

6:58 AM DERebecca said: So what factor you choose to include or ignore will determine your conclusion

 

Make of it what you will

Sadly, pulling numbers at random from thin air does not measure up to tested gains, which are lower.

 

Make of that what you will.

[VRHmason]

Worst bandage fix ever...its like bandage with razors.
I quit the focus time long time ago, as if you wish to get any decent amount of it you need to play certain frames....but this...this only makes me ignore it even more.

[(PSN)SupeBoss]

ah yes, the good ol smoke and mirrors nerf

guess ill farm up naramon before it hits us

[(PSN)tpesconi]

Why not maintain the conversion rate of 5% / 7% and the convergence give us like 50% more!? (When I watched the DevStream I expected something like that!)

 

Why not please the players? No, DE changed the conversion to ~1.5% with MANDATORY CONVERGENCE to gain something and expect players to accept calmly? I'm on console and I'm already pissed off because I can do the math!

 

I heard the word "fun" relative on gaining focus with convergence on DevStream and that is not true, it was already boring before and now seems worst.

[PsychedelicSnake]

Sadly, pulling numbers at random from thin air does not measure up to tested gains, which are lower.

 

Make of that what you will.

It's not thin air. Not sure where you got that. As I said, these are Rebecca's words, not mine. Second, this is only a snippet. She's confessed to having done extensive testing herself as well as asked around the offices. Whether it is true or not is up to personal opinion, but these are definitely not random numbers.

[Stormdragon]

So, DE literally nerfed focus, and making it heavily relying upon those, so called "Focus Boosters", which are actually, not even close before the nerf WITHOUT a booster, boosting the gained focus to a high amount.

Is this kind of "this makes fun" change, DE?

500% Stealth Parameter, killing a Scorcher: 6544 affinity, gained focus: 54 points?!

Those are freaking 1.9%! WHERE IS MY GREATER LENS' 6% VALUE?!

Seriously. I am done with this Focus stuff.

Don't get me wrong, I have had fun with it, but this makes me literally say -f- it.

We are forced to wait for a ridiculously false placed/spawned Focus Booster

Notice how pathetically far away it is placed upon 2 different locations, and none is having the booster placed there.

, and if we finally get that booster in a timed range of 3-5 minutes, we are even getting less Focus Points than before the "fix", while the cap has been increased to 100k?

Le trolling hard.

I am not going to waste 6h+ for this farming system anymore.

It gets more and more to a typical Eastern China farming quality.

Stop this madness. We are not used to those high grind stuff things and more likely non-profitting at the same time.

I want my plat for those greater 2 zenurik and 2 naramon lenses back!

Honestly I half agree (maybe even more than half) its been a while since we started hearing "we'll reduce the grind" and all we have obtained is a grind increase on most parts of the game. The only grind reduced was on vulpine mask a little after release. Then we got a couple of grindfests and the focus farm asking for grind to be fed.

It gets more and more to a typical Eastern China farming quality.

Stop this madness. We are not used to those high grind stuff things and more likely non-profitting at the same time.

Put your tinfoil hat back on, brother. They might be watching our minds right now

Edit: also I totally agree on yellow things needing a fix on their spawn points to avoid slowing down the mission by making us go back a big distances in order to get a boost on our focus farming

Edited February 12, 2016 by -----LegioN-----

[(PSN)Cwellann]

And this is why I don't mind being on console.  I'm actually really happy now that the next console update is not even going to start being packaged to send to cert until 18.5 is done.  The focus changes that have been made are an obvious and pretty substantial nerf, as DeMonkey pretty clearly stated above, and all the Draco testing over the evening has apparently proven.  At least I've got a heads up to, instead of maxing out Naramon for the heck of it, prioritize the high value parts of Zenurik and Vazarin while I still have the ability to get my focus on my terms in gameplay I enjoy in under 40 minutes.

 

As a final note, I'm really hoping that DE listens to the feedback on this, as they did with the proposed excavation changes - judging from the snippet of shared conversation quoted above, this seems like it sprung from the same well of "so, the optimal gain is this, so therefore let's nerf  adjust everything else based on this optimal scenario".  I'm not going to do the math, but I'll take Reb at her word that it's possible to exceed previous gains.  What I have a problem with is the forced hand seemingly required to achieve that optimal scenario.  I had a bad feeling about this "focus booster" thing that turned out to be convergence from the moment I saw it previewed the first time, and it's certainly been borne out so far.  All that needed done was to add radial sharing.  And turning off the stealth multiplier affecting focus is just inexcusable.

[woah_dude]

 

A snippet from DERebecca in private chat:

 

6:57 AM DERebecca said: If you look at it in isolation:

6:58 AM DERebecca said: Before greater lenses Turned about 7% of affinity earned from that item into Focus

6:58 AM DERebecca said: Now greater lenses turn up to 10.5% with convergence, but it can include Radial/Shared XP

6:58 AM DERebecca said: So what factor you choose to include or ignore will determine your conclusion

 

Make of it what you will

 

 

IF you look at it from gameplay point of view, we had 7% of affinity earned from item into focus 100% of the time, Now Focus "boosters" which randomly spawn god know where (and can spawn behind walls in locked rooms according to some people) give us a 45 second window during which u have to find a maximum amount of enemies and kill them ASAP.

 

Radial/Shared exp according to plenty of reports is negligible and almost unnoticeable in itself .

 

 

I'm sorry, but there is no debate, really, this is a nerf and attack on consistency of our runs/farm, it is not an improvement by any means. (u can call it 5th consecutive focus farm nerf if u want since its introduction without any improvements to the system itself).

 

 

For comparison i tried my previous focus farming method of max range ember killing a S#&$ ton of enemies (solo) and i picked up this "booster" as soon as it dropped, while staying inside the rooms with most amount of spawns, it took me 1,5 hours to max out my daily cap WITH AN EXP booster. This is conclave level of exp gain and as u might know, its not very player friendly. 

Edited February 12, 2016 by b0_on

[Pizzarugi]

 

A snippet from DERebecca in private chat:

 

6:57 AM DERebecca said: If you look at it in isolation:

6:58 AM DERebecca said: Before greater lenses Turned about 7% of affinity earned from that item into Focus

6:58 AM DERebecca said: Now greater lenses turn up to 10.5% with convergence, but it can include Radial/Shared XP

6:58 AM DERebecca said: So what factor you choose to include or ignore will determine your conclusion

 

Make of it what you will

 

Looks like Draco is going to be seeing a great deal more people.

[OneBuckShort]

I don't really care about the math I just put it (the greater lens) on my warframe, farm Draco and I usually get around 8k-10k focus point after 3 or 4 rounds.

[Djego27]

It's not thin air. Not sure where you got that. As I said, these are Rebecca's words, not mine. Second, this is only a snippet. She's confessed to having done extensive testing herself as well as asked around the offices. Whether it is true or not is up to personal opinion, but these are definitely not random numbers.

 

Well it is actually true if everybody got a lens on everything and does 25% damage or less while everybody is in shared affinity range all the time + picking up the boosters as soon as they spawn.

 

However what DE overlooks is that focus farming was never done that way and the result is more or less just a massive nerf for solo or people that farmed focus in groups as DPS while it is a minior(if at all) buff to other people.

 

It kind of reminds me at the dev stream question about the archwing defence "Is double the time, double the rewards good?" and DE Steve was joking and made it sound that he believes players have issues with first grade math(my guessing is he really did not understand the question, since this actually would need to be familiar with the mission itself) while talking about the poorest designed mission in archwing and probably in the hole game where 99% of the time means at wave 20 you are solo, lost one shuttle(since you can't be everywhere) and get absolute nothing of use for 30 minutes of your time(where halve the time, halve the rewards would actually be a lot better because of this common scenario). It is just one thing that comes in mind how disconnected DE devs are with her own work.

 

Edit: That said, the rates where way to low to begin with. Focus was never something you could max out just by playing the game a bit more, it did require specific maps and specific methods to acquire the focus points in a time frame that would not drive a player insane after a few days. Today I got 4k focus from the sorti mobile defence solo, getting all the boosters and doing map nuking with a dps frame. This was around 8-10k before the changes from my experience.

 

Focus farming made a lot of people play solo and grind specific maps instead of play in groups. A change to this is welcome and needed, however the 1.1 changes just nerf this methods while not fixing the mechanics for groups. Also there is so much wrong with focus(85% of the stuff is useless, 10% overpowered with little in between) and player interaction in groups using focus(instant revives are the only thing where it actually brings something useful to team play instead of just giving you more power) that changing the mechanic to get the points would have been low on my list.

 

If DE would have keep the old value on the focus lens and just make shared affinity count to 50%(while already being split over all gear) you would have the same thing for solo and a much better distribution for groups, where while not adding much assuming you not have a lens on everything(what is realistic), at least removing most of the drawbacks from playing in groups when it comes to focus points.

 

I don't really care about the math I just put it (the greater lens) on my warframe, farm Draco and I usually get around 8k-10k focus point after 3 or 4 rounds.

 

Before the changes you had 15-20k with a reasonable dps frame, 8k was possible if you had multiple high dps frames and active players(since it is drako, unlikely) and at this point solo was allready the far better option(similar or slightly more focus, better rewards, no host migration or lechers etc.).

Edited February 12, 2016 by Djego27

[DeMonkey]

I don't really care about the math I just put it (the greater lens) on my warframe, farm Draco and I usually get around 8k-10k focus point after 3 or 4 rounds.

 

Doesn't make the math irrelevant.

[IceColdHawk]

Wiki's been updated, apparently a standard lens only converts 1.25%, whilst a greater converts 1.75%...

1.25% x 4 = 1.75%. 

 

:]...

 

 

 

...-.-

[RHuckebein]

1.25% x 4 = 1.75%. 

 

:]...

 

 

 

...-.-

 

And you didn't react to 5% x 4 = 7%?

Greater Lens is exactly as much of a boost over lens as it has always been.  Complaining about how much of an improvement over a basic lens is just makes you look foolish.

 

The problem is that 1.25% is way too low in the first place.

 

Also that chat snippet really sums up the entirety of the DE testing philosophy, doesn't it?

 

6:57 AM DERebecca said: If you look at it in isolation:

6:58 AM DERebecca said: Before greater lenses Turned about 7% of affinity earned from that item into Focus

6:58 AM DERebecca said: Now greater lenses turn up to 10.5% with convergence, but it can include Radial/Shared XP

6:58 AM DERebecca said: So what factor you choose to include or ignore will determine your conclusion

 

'What factor you choose to include or ignore will determine your conclusion'

 

Clearly DE's idea here was:

 

Include: absolute peak performance only during the time that performance is active

Ignore: absolutely everything else

Edited February 12, 2016 by RHuckebein

[IceColdHawk]

And you didn't react to 5% x 4 = 7%?

Once i checked the wiki it was 3% vs 7.something...i mean it's still not x4 but at least "something"...Also have to say the last time i farmed focus was last year...so i might have not been up to date...

 

But yeah, i'm one of those guys who can't see lenses in sorties. Once you got your fav. school's lens, you're done.

Edited February 12, 2016 by IceColdHawk

[(PSN)Prisma144]

The reduction on the lenses must be reverted back.

[markus230]

Again... you are not supposed to FARM Focus, just play, and you will gain Focus while doing so, jeez, its long term goal, don't turn it into next Syndicate

[DeMonkey]

'What factor you choose to include or ignore will determine your conclusion'

 

Clearly DE's idea here was:

 

Include: absolute peak performance only during the time that performance is active

Ignore: absolutely everything else

Yeah, as I said earlier that comment annoys me, it implies that if we've come to a different conclusion to DE (which we have) then we aren't factoring everything in.

[IceColdHawk]

Again... you are not supposed to FARM Focus, just play, and you will gain Focus while doing so, jeez, its long term goal, don't turn it into next Syndicate

It's like saying: "Yo dude, you're not supposed to farm saryn prime, just play and you will get". We want new things to play and to keep us in the game. We don't achieve that by waiting months and playing missions, we've done already a thousand of times just to get some things out of the focus tree. So we WANT to get it the fastest way possible obviously.

Edited February 12, 2016 by IceColdHawk

[L0k33]

So basically the new Focus Nerf system was introduced because someone thought of a way to get a looot of Focus on Draco mission (interception). 

And the DE instead of doing something with that broken mission tape thought to do farming harder (lol..nope) for them. 

 

The situation as it is right now is, that the guys who have farmed the Focus on that mission still have that farmed Focus points and players who like to play at their own pace that got like 3-5k of Focus a day while doing some normal missions are now waaaay back, without any other way than farming on mentioned Draco, to get some new skills. 

 

That's stupid IMO.