So Why Do Certain Enemies Outright Ignore Rules Of The Game?

[YasaiTsume]

The only thing "Unfair" about this boss fight is the fact we were not given enough visual cues or information on how to lower the shields.

But hey, at least he serves some challenge. It's pretty fun.

 

On the topic of invulnerability, Lech Krill has same stupid mechanic too.

If the AI decides to never do a heavy slam attack, yu will never be able to kill him.

 

At least with Razorback, we are the ones who control whether Razorback keeps his immunity or not, it just requires coordination.

[BETAOPTICS]

Ehhh... it is a bit silly even though I do agree that bosses have to be challenging but whoever said the damage reduction gap could not be big on bosses? Anyway I do not so much mind that immunity but I was laughing when I saw that you can actually walk trough its legs and body because the thing is apparently partially immaterial. The heck? And looks so ugly when a game allows that.

And yes my fellow Tenno, copying the same format and applying it to universally on all boss battles is lazy design. Sure, this time it at least brought forth one technically new element which was the usage of the environment to progress. But all in all it is quite lazy design to just put on invincibility mechanics on every boss battle and make it staged like that.

Want to make it more creative? Add a lot of shields/armor/health, make them agile, invisibility, teleport, decoys and so on so forth. There are so many more ways that you could make the bosses interesting and for the most part all the latest boss battles have been pretty much the same boss with a different skin. I know, I know, a bit hyperbolic there and not literally like that. But the basic concept and function in all of them has been to damage them X amount, then run around with waiting for X2 phase - rinse and repeat.

What is so creative in doing the same old thing over and over again? Nothing. Not really. I get it though. DE has limited resources and especially something like a tactical alert mission is not supposed to be the highlight of the year. It is true though that such blanket usage of Y mechanic in all things is lacking innovation, is not really that interesting and it is quite lazy from a design perspective.

Like I said though, DE has limited sources and many other games also suffers from this. I believe TotalBiscuit has extensively also talked about the issue of developers having the bad habit of finding one working system and then just keep repeating that instead of genuinely mixing things around to make the enemies genuinely varied and interesting, especially the bosses.

Edited February 13, 2016 by BETAOPTICS

[SeaUrchins]

Point is: no matter how powerful your frame is or how modded and formad your weapon is, you are still weaker than a bursa.

 

Unless you're a one swing tenno lel

Exploit was here. There s no need to post exploits. Send it to the support team.

[ComCray]

I don't agree.

If raw damage output could win you the tactical alert, then it wouldn't be a tactical alert.

The caps in place make it fairer for newcomers to play the event. Therfore, newcomers and veterans are on more of an equal sitting in fighting the boss.

The alert promotes skill and thinking, not damage. And I like it.

This!

It's called a tactical alert. Not an "unload on the poor sucker and maul him to bits" alert.

[fatpig84]

Apparently bursas have a very powerful EMP attack which works differently from our "Magnetic!" damage.

But you have to hack em to do it. That is all I could think of.

 

Even then the event was not half bad, I was helping newbies on the Venus one by bringing Trinity. I will be the bait and decoy while they hack and bring down the bursas, then I can cull the bursas and hack it to attack Razorback.

 

People should be a helper more often.

 

P.S. It doesn't equalize gear btw people, as a helper I was sitting on consistently 60% to 70% damage of damage dealt on the screens. Remember the team only have a few seconds window to do damage. So it is about how much you burst down during the down phase.

Edited February 13, 2016 by fatpig84

[(PSN)Lowk721]

Even the cheap lock-on Ancient hooks that can be shot when knocked down (while player can only control the camera until the character stands up).

Found out recently that in addition to doing power animation, hooks don't seem to work when I'm rolling/evading. And I think they aren't lock-on anymore.

The Razorback is 100% immune to damage, regardless of what weapon we use. Hack a Bursa though and it somehow has enough firepower to damage and stun the thing.

What is that Bursa using?

Why doesn't it instantly one-shot everything in existence?

Why don't the Tenno, crazy-powerful magical ninjas, not have such a weapon in their arsenal??

Enemies that are completely immune to damage is lazy design. I don't care if it has some mechanic that circumvents that invincibility, you should be able to kill anything with enough bullets (a reasonable amount of bullets, mind you). End of story.

I think a boss where you have to use a different tactic besides shoot it a bunch or S#&$ it a bunch in a weakpoint is nice as change up so long as it isn't the standard.

I kind of hate how some games have you able to damage boss that are basically armored vehicle with small arma.

Variety is nice when used right.

As for explanation, lore-wise, Grineer and Corpus are developing anti-tenno weaponry. So makes some sense they have something like that.

[NeoRetro10K]

Only thing I dislike about this guy is that fact that explosives are broken in this game. And since this guy has enough explosives on him to make even the Bombards jelly, I'd say that a fix for the way explosives work would greatly help...

 

F*** that homing missile nonsense...

 

Why can't I upvote more than once?

 

Anyway, this is just an Expy of Phorid's Spine Strike, but Made Of Explodium. Have a Nice Many Deaths of You!

 

Other than that, I like the boss, but the missiles are SO ridiculous.

Edited February 13, 2016 by NeoRetro10K

[MaiNeym]

We, the players, are tenno. And the corpus have access to other technology. It only makes sense that there are differences.

 

Have you even read nefs message from this event? He provokes us, and thinks his new technology is unbeatable. He's actually right, the only weakness is his very own technology. A shield that can only be brought down by his own fire power.

 

I like to fight a different boss. But if it's not your thing, then just pick another fight? The game isn't forcing you to keep fighting this boss right?

[RealPandemonium]

Are you seriously complaining that enemies are unfair?  Players have a ludicrous amount of power in their hands which makes the game a cakewalk.  You can happily cheese pretty much any content.

[Silvus-Sol]

I don't mind the Razorbacks invulnerability/Bursa hacking stuff. That's how the fight works and it's different enough that I'm okay with it. What I don't like, and I really really don't like it, is that his missiles home in on you while you're stealthed. What's the point of being invisible if his most powerful attack (that is very much capable of a OHKO) just seeks you out anyways? The missiles should go up and split around the room in an even dispersion.

 

I don't mind getting killed if I make a mistake, but when the cause of my death is simply because the boss decided to randomly pop off some magical seeking missiles while I'm stealthed and stuck in the hacking animation... that's just bull****.

Edited February 13, 2016 by Silvus-Sol

[Kuestenjung]

Enemies that are completely immune to damage is lazy design. 

 

- Enemies that are bullet sponges are lazy design.

- Enemies with damage cap are lazy design

 

Common. Everything in this game that is not 1.shot is lazy design by the community. 

This bossfight is the only good thing about the TA and one of the best in the entire game cause it requires something else then only shoot the big bad guy. 

What´s lazy about him is his design, cause he is only an altered bigger Jackal.

[[DE]Grzegorz]

Jackal,Vor and Alad,all can be one shotted,how is that good?

 

Try again without super inflated meta weapons.

 

Jackal has consistent weakpoints that open it to damage that eventually can bring it down.

Vor has pretty much the best "can't do S#&$ to me now" cue in the game and the timing is completely up to the player.

Alad V is based on a mechanic that's supposed to bounce the player back and forth between him and his pet.

Well that's just not true at all. AI in games are rarely held to the exact same ruleset as you.

 

 

 

So in other words just any boss where the strategy boils down to "Mash the shoot button and occasionally your strongest ability" then? We're too strong for bosses like that to give any challenge, hell I've never actually even seen what Corrupted Vor looks like because he dies less than a second after spawning.

 

a) Addressed before.

 

b) Overinflated weapon statistics is a problem of balance, not breaking the rules.

The only thing "Unfair" about this boss fight is the fact we were not given enough visual cues or information on how to lower the shields.

But hey, at least he serves some challenge. It's pretty fun.

 

On the topic of invulnerability, Lech Krill has same stupid mechanic too.

If the AI decides to never do a heavy slam attack, yu will never be able to kill him.

 

At least with Razorback, we are the ones who control whether Razorback keeps his immunity or not, it just requires coordination.

Given enough cues and consistent behaviour, it wouldn't be too bad.

 

And no, we are not the ones who control the Razorback, it still is up to AI. AI that feels free to spin around in place and do nothing.

 

Are you seriously complaining that enemies are unfair?  Players have a ludicrous amount of power in their hands which makes the game a cakewalk.  You can happily cheese pretty much any content.

 

Stat inflation is a balance issue.

 

- Enemies that are bullet sponges are lazy design.

- Enemies with damage cap are lazy design

 

Common. Everything in this game that is not 1.shot is lazy design by the community. 

This bossfight is the only good thing about the TA and one of the best in the entire game cause it requires something else then only shoot the big bad guy. 

What´s lazy about him is his design, cause he is only an altered bigger Jackal.

 

Hopefully once DE addresses Damage 3.0 and all of this fuzz and doesn't mess it up we they won't be forced to create bosses that have complete damage immunity just to play their animations because players' output won't be so inflated.

Edited February 13, 2016 by Mofixil

[StonedMakak]

I did not see unfair difficulty. Likewise, did not see difficulty that requires some deep thinking nor coordinated tactics. PUG'ed both versions of the alert with vanilla Frost, no Forma, just a potato. Used Globe for safe hacking, didn't even pay attention to what my team was doing, except for couple of revives.

 

If I used one of my favorite frames, I'd be probably of the same my mind as you OP. But I got wise to DE's MO some time ago, hence I knew that it would be same ol' "artificially difficult event that can be completely trivialized by appropriate loadout." And honestly, can you blame them? Players have every tool they need to remove entire gameplay mechanics. There is no way to create fair challenge at the moment.     

Edited February 13, 2016 by tisdfogg

[Necrius]

Because balancing enemies doesn't bring plat. DE is all about plat, they're Corpus incarnate.

[Ailith]

Ofc it doesn't need. There is lots of overkilling involved. I'm just saying that bosses that can just easily get shot down are nothing more than enhanced bombards. Just shooting targets. You seem to like them, we already have enough of them. But diversity doesn't hurt. Especially when you can have a boss where multiple actions are needed to bring him down. THAT is a "Boss".

Infinite enemy scaling is the reason for such powerful weapons which, in turn, is why bosses have invincibility phases in the first place. Take away that power though and endless missions become much harder much faster with no benefit. All enemies should have some kind of mechanism to exploit that makes them more vulnerable, armor plates to pop off, battery packs to disable shields, etc. (you could still dish out tons of damage and eventually kill them though). Every enemy would be a mini-game and your ability to beat each game would determine your level of success, that's challenge.

 

You..... you realize that the Bursa takes down his shields so you can shoot him right?

 

You're supposed to shoot Razorback when he stumbles from the Bursa weakening him

Thanks for missing my point entirely and assuming that I'm incapable of figuring out a mechanic or using the wiki (which I had to do because Bursas didn't spawn on my first run). Those Bursas have enough firepower to rip through the Razorback's shields, but they don't obliterate a Tenno (or at least our shields) instantly? That's the inconsistency that I was pointing out. You can just say "it's a video game", but the boss still doesn't obey the game's own rules. It's like how people are complaining about enemies taking dozens of bullets to the head in the The Division beta despite being normal human beings wearing beanies. It just doesn't make sense in the context of the game.

 

Why is the Razorback (or any other boss with an invincibility phase) completely immune to Tenno damage when we can degrade armor with incredibly potent toxins, harness the almighty power of magnets, and when we wield enough power to literally tear a hole into another dimension? Yet these simple little Bursas, robots that are far more of a nuisance than a threat, almost instantly take down the Razorback's shields if we hack them. It just doesn't make sense. It only makes sense in the regard that DE didn't want the thing getting one-shotted (I don't either). But, in that case, why not make an actually engaging mechanic instead...?

 

- Enemies that are bullet sponges are lazy design.

- Enemies with damage cap are lazy design

 

Common. Everything in this game that is not 1.shot is lazy design by the community. 

This bossfight is the only good thing about the TA and one of the best in the entire game cause it requires something else then only shoot the big bad guy. 

What´s lazy about him is his design, cause he is only an altered bigger Jackal.

Yes, bullet sponges are lazy. Damage caps slightly less so, but only if they can be overcome (see the rest of this post).

 

And, again, I'm not saying the design is lazy because I can't one-shot it (that's just as bad), I'm saying it's lazy because I can't kill it period until I've jumped through the same boring hoop 20 times. The boss fight isn't fun, it's just time-consuming.

Edited February 13, 2016 by Ailith