Excal And The Exalted Blade Fiasco. A Balancing Suggestion.

[Epsik-kun]

14 hours ago, YasaiTsume said:

Slash Dash build.

most OP build.

kek

[Aeraxis]

51 minutes ago, Madho said:

You may not notice it, but LoS is definitely a very glitchy mechanism. Some may have experienced it with Loki being unable to switch teleport with a decoy, even though it's totally in their line of sight, and it is a life or death matter when it comes to Radial Blind, because a single glitch leaving a single enemy unblinded, thus leaving Excal incredibly vulnerable. I'd rather not use a skill that does not guarantee its success even though I've met every single requirement. It's just as good as betting your chances. Also, it does not make sense that EB cannot blind an ememy behind a cover, while the blinding light is emitted through the tip of blade, which is obviously way higher than the cover itself. Plus, regarding how the void towers have gold and white materials built out of it, the light should be reflecting all over the place. No offense, but do you even physics, DE?

I've made it part of my natural moveset to jump into the air before RB and RJ to make sure I have LoS on everything I intend it to hit.

[Kalvorax]

11 hours ago, (PS4) OmegAmorbis said:

The only change EB needs is the removal of the waves, except on charged attacks, at the end of combos, or when channeling. It would still be effective, but take a bit more skill to use. Seriously, EB shouldn't be a better ranged option than your actual guns.

more like make the normal E combo have no waves...but the rest have waves...that way people actually will USE the combos...and in endless missions EB isnt all that great after awhile...your better off using RB and a nikana by that point.

[DelialFallen]

I disliked Excalibur before he began tossing waves around and I dislike him just as much now.  Exalted Wave is the silliest ability in the game, it looks stupid, sounds horrendous, and would fit better in a cartoon than it ever ought to in Warframe.

 

Thankfully, I see fewer and fewer Excalibros in public runs and none of the people I typically group with ever use him.

[blaes]

3 hours ago, Madho said:

 Also, it does not make sense that EB cannot blind an ememy behind a cover, while the blinding light is emitted through the tip of blade, which is obviously way higher than the cover itself. Plus, regarding how the void towers have gold and white materials built out of it, the light should be reflecting all over the place. No offense, but do you even physics, DE?

i will add that not all light is in the visible range, and some of it can go through obstacle and hinder image capture mechanisms (take x-rays and gamma rays for instance).

[main_antagonist]

If you aren't happy with people using Excalibur wait until you have 3 Ash's on your team or 3 Embers, then you'll find it even harder to get kills.

[Xaero]

On 2/22/2016 at 1:36 AM, Koujjo said:

The problem I have with Excalibur and EB is ability overlap. Why would you ever use Slash Dash when you can just swish your weapon a couple of times with EB and have the same results? EB just does too much too well. I would be perfectly fine with all offensive functionality being removed from EB and it instead be used as a defensive ability. 

I don't think anyone would rely on Slash Dash even after EB nerf just because it's not a very effective ability itself. But Slash Dash finds its use with a combo counter augment, that is a great addition to a melee-oriented Excalibur (with some new event mods on melee). That's it - you either build for melee using Slash Dash as an addition or you build for Exalted Blade.

The problem is that EB gameplay is more effective than melee but that's not a problem of EB (an ultimate ability, must I remind) - it's a problem of underwhelming melee gameplay with nothing to compensate. Why would anyone use Exalted Blade that doesn't benefit with new melee endgame mods, drains energy and has a bad range due to the waves removed?

My suggestion is to make melee gameplay more viable (requires a good auto-aiming system, being able to close the gap between player and enemies easily, better damage mitigation system and so on).

In case of EB - it should stay as a viable end-game tool, IMO the only thing that should be adjusted is its combos. Right now there's no reason to use any combo except EEEE. My suggestions: rework the combo's animation so it has an end while make the other combos more effective and diversed (slow combos with large slow waves and fast combos with multiple waves each hit). Perhaps even introduce some kind of a style counter like in DMC that increases as you use different combos and do not repeat the same combo all the time. This counter could give some useful effects (for example, more damage mitigation or higher crit chance or smth else).

IMO such changes would be a straight quality of life improvement, not some arguable decision that will leave many players unhappy.

[Misgenesis]

Nice to see the rabid defence force on full throttle. Though i disagree with OP's suggestion.

Keep the waves on normal attack but make it drain on every swing. Thats a start.

[Specific.Zod]

I tried to use channeling build on excal, 1 enery every one wave hit one enemy, terrible terrible unless you have primed flow. and the damage is terrible cause i need to use 2 slot to get down that 1 energy.

[(PSN) Crimson_Judgment]

I Really like Nezha as an Example of energy drain Firewalker has a base Drain of 5 EPS (Energy per second) this isn't too high like Chromas Effigy or Banshees Soundquake. but its not incredibly low to the point where you can keep it going with insanely little effort i feel as though the solution is to have the base drain on similar abilities (Hysteria Primal Fury ETC) be change to 5 EPS not too high that its power hungry not too low that you can keep it going all mission long without trying

seriously people abilities aren't made to be left on for eternity and enjoy if that was the case we wouldn't even have an energy system at all... even if it is redundant in most cases

[Guest]

20 hours ago, Aeraxis said:

I've made it part of my natural moveset to jump into the air before RB and RJ to make sure I have LoS on everything I intend it to hit.

That is exactly what I did, and some enemies still managed to not get blinded. My RB build started to fail a lot since the rework.

 

7 hours ago, main_antagonist said:

If you aren't happy with people using Excalibur wait until you have 3 Ash's on your team or 3 Embers, then you'll find it even harder to get kills.

^This. 

[NightmareT12]

As someone who likes Excalibur I've never understood why he is allowed to have that range energy thing. I mean... It makes little to no sense.

What I'd do in all honesty, is make "normal" Exalted Blade melee only, like Valkyr's Hysteria, BUT allow the current energy wave functionality if you're channeling. That way you could really start using the other abilities a bit more, and it comes at a cost.

[Scytze]

On 22.2.2016 at 1:42 AM, YasaiTsume said:

Slash Dash build.

Let the people who EB keep their fun. It's fun for people to spam out energy waves, and I can understand that.

People like me will then play Slash Dash build, most OP build in endgame when Iframes + 20k damage per cast for 6 energy makes people sweat.

 

Edit: Surging Dash adds to Melee Combo Counter, hence stacking Blood Rush on yur melee weapon as well.

I am with you mah slash dashing brother.

[Guest]

Compare Hysteria and Primal Fury with EB.

Hysteria:

Invincibility

Easy melee combo access

High combo multipliers

Low range

Innate life steal

Primal Fury:

Growing range

Easy melee combo access

Pseudo invincibility with Defy

Almost no combo multipliers at all

NO innate life steal

EB:

Difficult melee combo access with waves

Less combo multipliers

Infinite punchthrough

Max range

NO innate life steal

NO invincibility

And you still want to nerf EB to the ground?

Edited February 25, 2016 by Guest

[CircularReason]

As a founder who mains Excalibur prime, I'll offer my opinions:

EB is not OP. Its endgame viable.

Removing the waves altogether is a bad idea and would make his ultimate terrible.

Removing waves from all but channeled attacks is a bad idea too, as channeling isa broken system right now, draining way to much energy.

The only viable way to change this, and I am not saying it should change, is to attach the waves to a charge attack combo. If this was done, I would want full damage reduction from the front as original eb had.

I want full damage reduction from the front. With histeryia's invincibility, no one can say this would be OP. 

Excalibur needs a charge attack.

Excalibur is one of the most balanced, useful, and well synergized frames, IMHO.

Just my 2¢

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

The only nerf exalted blade needs is its sound file toned down.  The constant swish swish swish swish swish swish swish swish swish swish swish swish swish swish. Yeah, it's annoying as F***. But no real Nerf is needed. 

Edited February 24, 2016 by (PS4)FriendSharkey

[SonicKirito101]

The Excalibur update was amazing and should be left alone.  The ONLY Excalibur update should be a remade Excalibur Prime... but that's not gonna happen.  Besides, other frames need more attention... like Zephyr, Hydroid's appearance, and Volt's shield.

[Kalvorax]

1 hour ago, (PS4)FriendSharkey said:

The only nerf exalted blade needs is its sound file toned down.  The constant swish swish swish swish swish swish swish swish swish swish swish swish swish swish. Yeah, it's annoying as F***. But no real Nerf is needed. 

god yes...I love excal...BUT i am hating the constant swish swish swish from OTHER excals in a squad...in addition to myself.

[EX-Zanki]

You know, thing is if you see an EBxcalibur running around spamming E you know that it will eventually fall down surrounded by a lot of enemies and then someone will have to pick him up (not talking about mastery 1 or 3 but around mastery 15) .... so he will unleash his mad sword slash slash slash... and fall again... but its player's choice and i think it shouldn't be nerfed...

In the other hand i often see all and i really mean every excal player, not using the other EB combos at their disposal, because why? spamming EEEEEEE works better, its not like they will ever be in melee range anyway... as if they were using a warframe melee specialist...thats dumb...

And those combos are so beautifully animated, full mobility on every swing, some even have damage multipliers...but useless at the power of infinite E smashing....

So it wouldn't be better if those combos were removed and used on a new stance for swords?, i really like to use those combos... without the waves... in a sword.... at melee range... 

Anyone can dream right?

[Neo3602]

On 2/22/2016 at 4:42 PM, YasaiTsume said:

Slash Dash build.

Let the people who EB keep their fun. It's fun for people to spam out energy waves, and I can understand that.

People like me will then play Slash Dash build, most OP build in endgame when Iframes + 20k damage per cast for 6 energy makes people sweat.

 

Edit: Surging Dash adds to Melee Combo Counter, hence stacking Blood Rush on yur melee weapon as well.

 

would you mind posting your build?

[Epsik-kun]

6 hours ago, EX-Zanki said:

You know

See, your problem lies here. You don't.

You simply don't play on the level when Excalibur is required to go melee, which implies you don't go much higher than enemy level 50, hence you can't really judge how the frame performs, because this frame is far outside of its comfortable zone.

4th combo has its uses. It is actually a very powerful combo, that while drops overall dps a bit (albeit not that hard, due to damage multipliers), provides a really strong CC effect on its last two hits. Combos 2 and 3 are, sadly, useless.

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

5 hours ago, Epsik-kun said:

See, your problem lies here. You don't.

You simply don't play on the level when Excalibur is required to go melee, which implies you don't go much higher than enemy level 50, hence you can't really judge how the frame performs, because this frame is far outside of its comfortable zone.

4th combo has its uses. It is actually a very powerful combo, that while drops overall dps a bit (albeit not that hard, due to damage multipliers), provides a really strong CC effect on its last two hits. Combos 2 and 3 are, sadly, useless.

This^

I always see people trying to "balance" Excalibur around T4, thinking that it's endgame or something.

For the sake of those people, your 40 mins at T4 is pretty much just round 1 of a sortie and you got 3 rounds to go, each one with higher level mobs.

The 4-swing move on Exalted Blade with the knockdown effect on the last swing and the sliding blind move are the most essential moves in my opinion.

I pretty much always use the 4-swing move out of habit now (though on occasion and with parkour 2.0, Radial Blind with the finisher effect and also Slash Dash, Excalibur is really capable of dishing out some really good damage, CC and mobility, and all these are balanced by his relatively low survivability stats and energy pool.

I say leave Excalibur alone and stop trying to make unneccesary changes to it when it is already balanced or extremely close to balanced, which is what you cannot say for more than half of the frames available.

Let DE use the time to fix those and not waste it on trying to "perfect" Excalibur and then end up ruining it like what we have seen for so many times if you have been around since the early days.

[Vasault]

i'll be honest, exalted blade was and is a pretty good idea, but in a game like this, when co-op is important, exalted blade becomes a serious issue, in my personal experience and as a veteran exca player, i stopped using this ultimate, and started building a slash dash build

[(PSN)KadzietYagami]

5 hours ago, Vasault said:

i'll be honest, exalted blade was and is a pretty good idea, but in a game like this, when co-op is important, exalted blade becomes a serious issue, in my personal experience and as a veteran exca player, i stopped using this ultimate, and started building a slash dash build

So... Excalibur players shouldn't kill enemies so their teammates can get kills? In a co-op game. Shouldn't the same apply to other frames? Let's get Ember to stop killing enemies too so we all have a chance. Also, Zephyr should never use her tornadoes. Actually, any ability should never be used ever, because it doesn't give teammates chances to get kills. That would make the co-op even more important.

[EX-Zanki]

11 hours ago, Epsik-kun said:

See, your problem lies here. You don't.

You simply don't play on the level when Excalibur is required to go melee, which implies you don't go much higher than enemy level 50, hence you can't really judge how the frame performs, because this frame is far outside of its comfortable zone.

4th combo has its uses. It is actually a very powerful combo, that while drops overall dps a bit (albeit not that hard, due to damage multipliers), provides a really strong CC effect on its last two hits. Combos 2 and 3 are, sadly, useless.

You are kind of right when you say i don't play excalibur, yeah i don't play excalibur at all... mercury or sortie... but i have eyes and that is what i see... even at sortie 3...Excalibur players swinging EB spamming EEEE... fall on the floor... get picked up rinse and repeat... but that's not my point... my point is that every Excalibur player i've ever saw... anywhere from Mercury to Sortie3 (level high enough?) just use EEEEE... not the other combos... never at melee range... in other words a waste of a good stance...full mobility, damage multipliers... ragdolls...it would be so good of a stance for swords...

But don't worry i don't mean to put your so-op skills to question...