Magnetic procs or shock eximi: one of them needs to change

[(PSN)Tactless_Ninja]

19 hours ago, Azamagon said:

No we did not get what we asked for...

* EV trin needs a nerf (or, rather, Trinity needs a complete rework)
* Energy pizzas needs to be less spammable
* CC needs to be nerfed
* Enemy armor scaling needs to be nerfed

Etc, etc. We needed balance, we needed our strengths AND our enemies' strengths toned down.

We did NOT need to keep all those strengths, while getting ridiculous new enemies to hardcounter our strengths (unavoidable ones like Shock Eximus as a prime example).

DE mentioned that the damage in Warframe is too spikey. This relates to energy too (and everything else in this game for that matter). The flaw stems from bad math, in that everything is very "bipolar": Kill or be killed, flourish in unlimited energy or don't cast ANYTHING, move around unrestricted or get CC'd to death etc.

The problem is this bipolar design, due to BAD NUMERICAL BALANCING. And numerical balancing, THAT is what we asked for. But it has never been what we have gotten.

"Pizzas" don't need a nerf. The inferior versions need to be spammed to do anything, and material farming for the good ones is the cost of using them. Dunno bout you but I'm constantly out of nano spores.

I agree with everything else though.

Trinity, her utility veers straight towards either portable battery or supergirl emo kid. And healing if you're not making everyone invincible is a bit of a chore especially if your teammates go into a down state from full health. There's no way to respond to that other than babysitting. I'd like something like Oberon's ability where it protects teammates for a duration.

First thing that came to mind when you mentioned damage spike was old Stalker.

 

[----Fenrir----]

Terrible terrible design. There are multiple things wrong with those Shock Eximus units and how they work

• First of all their aura is invisible. And an aura with an effect that can basically insta kill many frames in higher levels should never be invisible
• The units themselves are kinda invisible. What I mean with that is that they look just like similar Corpus units and you usually don't notice them before they proc you

Those I believe are the main problems with those units. It's a unit that does not stand out at all with an aura that is totally invisible and capable of leading to instant deaths in higher level content. That it not good design at all. Because it is unfair and leaves little room for the player to do anything. You can not avoid what you can not see and Eximus units themselves are almost as invisible as their auras within the hordes of enemies the game usually sends at you.

Not to mention that similar to nullifier they force a certain playstyle on the player. Melee player are kinda screwed and don't get me started on Shock Eximus Nullifier^^

I'm all for more challenge but those Shock Eximus units are just really really cheap and bad design.

[Autongnosis]

I think both should change.

Give Shock Eximi a large forewarning aura (ie, if the actual aura is 10m, you get the FX when you're 20m away) and a visual FX for their aura's boundaries, and also change the Magnetic proc so that it now drains 75% of your energy cap (or your surrent energy, i'm fine with both tbh) instead of 100%.

[traybong111]

23 hours ago, motorfirebox said:

The thing is, it doesn't address any of those issues. In fact, it makes EV Trin, pizzas, and CC even more required. You need EV Trin and pizzas in order to recover quickly when one of these jerks procs on you. You need constant CC to prevent them from getting close enough to proc.

It's both harrowing and hilarious how short-sighted some of these Shock Eximus defenses are. 

Even back when Shock Eximus first appeared, there were legitimate feedbacks to tweak them and not outright disable them, such as temporarily cutting energy and shield to half, disabling all abilities except 1, have them clearly stand out from the crowd like Arctic Eximus, etc. Warframe's CC spam is a problem, many players know that, and energy efficiency of powerful abilities is another problem, but it's not going to be solved by a single hamfisted unit. 

Seeing that DE just returned Shock Eximus with a handwave saying "it was a bug" and without any change, I'd understand why some posters might feel DE has no respect for players. And seeing some brain-dead defenders to Shock Eximus who just want an excuse to tell others to 'git gud' rather than actually think about the impact Shock Eximus has across different play styles, I'd understand why DE doesn't have any such respect. 

Edited March 7, 2016 by traybong111
grammar

[Tsukinoki]

On 3/6/2016 at 0:54 AM, Mak_Gohae said:

Yes, we all know that in the game the enemies are trying to stop you.

The Eximus glow, have some situational awareness and have some target priority.

Good luck having situational awareness to avoid or kill them when they can:

• Be waiting for you at the top of elevators and standing right in the door making their aura 100% unavoidable.
• Be waiting on one of the walkways above doors that is very common in corpus maps, again making their aura 100% unavoidable if you actually want to continue the mission
• Be waiting on the other side of a friendship door meaning that if you try to open the door your energy is going to be zapped because again its 100% unavoidable with absolutely no counter play or way to avoid the effects.
• Be waiting directly around a blind corner meaning that you are left hoping and praying that the AI will decide to move them and not just leave them sitting there meaning you are going to be taking the hit to your energy with absolutely no way to avoid it or any counter play available.

At the very least their aura needs to be reduced to LoS, and even then they need some way to avoid it before it zaps all of your energy.

Almost every other eximus unit in the game has some form of counter play.  And where it doesn't have counter play their effects aren't just an instant "You lose!" effect.  The other truly unavoidable eximus auras, toxic and energy leech, have a low enough effect that you can spend a few seconds under their effect without being penalized too heavily.  And I really think that shock eximus should move that direction.

At least the other units that can prevent your power usage have fairly obvious tells (nullifier bubbles, the distinctive sound that Scrambus/Combas make, the isolator bubbles) and when they are in unavoidable situations they briefly prevent your powers and you can get out if it and continue using your abilities and actually do stuff.  All of those units have counter plays and ways to work around it without killing entire play styles and modding, because good luck being a rage + qt build with shock eximus units around...

Edited March 7, 2016 by Tsukinoki

[tnccs215]

there is another problem with shock eximus:

redundancy.

Let's see: We got Nullifiers that are immune to it powers and deactivate them once you enter their bubble (questionable, but tolerable design), we got Combas and Scrambus, that are immune and deactivate some of your powers, while being susceptible to being counter acted by good aim (good design on my opinion), we got Bursas, who spam CC and are damn unpredictable, durable, and fast; and we have energy leeches, who constantly drain the most important resource of the game, but at a pace, and are relatively fragile.

And than we have Shock Eximii, who have a barely visible aura, are durable, and not only instantly drain your energy (and end up deactivating most powers), they also nullify your shields. And you get all this units at once.

counter acting cheese play, not by removing cheese play, but by allowing your enemies to cheese too, only intensifies the already mentioned bipolarity of this game, further unchanging it.

This games mechanics in general, and interaction with enemies in particular, need to be revised

[motorfirebox]

1 hour ago, tnccs215 said:

counter acting cheese play, not by removing cheese play, but by allowing your enemies to cheese too, only intensifies the already mentioned bipolarity of this game, further unchanging it.

This, exactly.

[Shockwave-]

On 3/6/2016 at 0:41 AM, (PS4)Crimson_Judgment said:

And the People who

1. Don't Use Either of Those Are gimped and very likely going to die horribly
2. Beginners Are F****** (Eximus are still a thing at Mid levels. Making the Steep Progression and learning curve even worse) Guess in the "Undercover Boss" His conclusion was lets make things harder on everyone because of a few very specific Late game things break the game

exactly. They force you to use the 1 or 2 things they are trying to counter. Just like trinity. The more they try to find ways to remove excess power becuse people have trinity, the more people need to have (and will use trinity), and then having a trinity becomes the default must have frame, which is boring. Nerf Trin, Nerf Zenurik.

Get rid of nullifiers and then nerf Excal and Valkyr.

undo the nerf of powers not working on bosses and nerf the powers if they are too strong (or buff the bosses).

Giving players all these abilities and then just shutting them off to create "difficulty" is simply lazy/poor design. Bosses are when you WANT your big powers to work. That's when you need them, but DE doesn't seem to get thier game has undergone power creep in leaps and bounds and they need to uncreep the powers themselves.

[motorfirebox]

Well, I don't think it's about nerfing, I think it's about changing the paradigm. As long as the energy paradigm is "you can spam whenever you have energy, regaining energy without Trin or pizzas is a crapshoot" then Trin and pizzas will be the default no matter how much you nerf them. You'll just end up with two or three Trins per party in order to make up for the nerf.

I think the entire paradigm has to change drastically. I dunno, make all 1 casts free, and make using your 1 build up points that you can spend on 2/3/4. Something completely outside of Warframe's current box, something more complex, something that requires more than 'correct' equipment choice to be good at.

[CCamp88]

Posted this in another similar topic. Definately Agree with the mentioned.

 

It wouldnt be as bad as if as soon as your hud/ui comes back that you could then get energy. It still takes several seconds after that to get the energy, and by that time, you are likely proc'd again. I definately suggest a change. If anything, even so they wouldnt drain all your energy, but just a percentage of it, or if they would just lower you max energy temperaily instead of removing everythign.

[Inarticulate]

I never really figured out why Shock Eximus auras inflicted Magnetic procs. You'd think they'd be walking Arc Traps instead.

I think the problem isn't so much how effective Shock Eximuses are against players as much as how disproportionately effective Magnetic procs are against players. Anyone remember the old Ancient Disruptors with their 100% Magnetic proc rate? Either Magnetic needs to stop being so crippling to players or it needs to cripple enemies just as badly (and the latter is never going to happen).

[Tigercloud]

On 3/6/2016 at 3:15 AM, ArcusVeles said:

Or make it act like the energy equivalent of Viral - halves your energy pool's size, allows you to continue casting normally, but your casts are essentially costing you double the energy in the same way that taking damage while viral proc'd counts as double damage.

You'd technically not even be losing any energy, it'd just be forcing your efficiency down for the duration.

This actually sounds sensible, although to be honest if you have a huge energy pool, it practically has no effect.

What about having them also have a visible charged attack, say taking 2 seconds, which has high accuracy, can be dodged, and when fired has the current magnetic proc effect? These two together would keep shock eximii fulfilling their role without causing undue frustration. Have the first be an aura, the second a cast ability. Personally I'd also have the aura disrupt your abilities for one second, and have it tick every 6 seconds, but I'm a masochist.

[Lost_Cartographer]

Until the numbers of Warframe are balanced and DE realizes they need to put cooldowns on abilities or otherwise cap the CC ability spam (their beliefs amount to jack-all when they result in $#!% enemies meant to counter those beliefs,) they're going to keep introducing "no powers for you" enemies until finally players are regularly getting stomped in endless modes. 

NEVER, at any point in time, were endless modes designed such that we should go for as long as we want.  When people complain that the loss of all energy means death at 60 minutes, they don't (or won't) understand the truth is THAT'S THE POINT.  The cold hard truth is players are meant to lose - the question was always "when" and if they pull out before that point.  The moment players regularly started going for an hour... two hours.... six hours and longer was when things were very obviously broken and since then, DE has been aiming to solve that, though hopefully damage/mods 3.0 will finally be their serious attempt to address these issues.  Until then, watch out... Corrupted eximus Bursas, Manics and Juggernauts might be the their last resort.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Littleman88

[Endorphinz]

Yeah I agree with OP, I don't know why they took out shock eximus enemies after people complained, and then brought them back in for no reason with no tweaking.