To everyone that has seen Devstream 71 and still oppose genderswap

[arch111]

Just now, Ryouhi said:

You're focusing on one ad hominem attack and ignore the rest of the arguments in that case.

And locking gender behind a paywall is a terrible terrible idea

Why? Only those who want it will pay for it. The rest won't care.

[Ryouhi]

2 minutes ago, arch111 said:

Why? Only those who want it will pay for it. The rest won't care.

 

But take a look at this from a player getting fresh into the game.

Say you wanna play Volt because you like the electricity theme, though you would actually prefer playing as a female character.
You play the tutorial and like to play as him and get to your liset. You look around and later on find out about the market, and there you see an Alt-gender Skin for Volt.

You'll probably ask if the DEvs are out of their minds charging money for being able to choose your gender, if you have come from any kind of RPG where it's a global, free feature.

If i was a new player and i'd find out i have to pay money to get the gender i want? i'd quit the game immediately because that wouldn't bode well for the rest of the content.

 

Aside, at the moment TennoGen is restricted to Pc players only if i'm not mistaken - that would cause another big problem of consoles being left out...

[Kai_Shiba]

3 minutes ago, arch111 said:

Why? Only those who want it will pay for it. The rest won't care.

And those who want it will also quit the game because of the horrible paywall for a gender they want. Bad practice leads to this.

[shut]

27 minutes ago, Ryouhi said:

You're focusing on one ad hominem attack and ignore the rest of the arguments in that case.

And locking gender behind a paywall is a terrible terrible idea

It's one ad hominem attack with a crapton of upvotes, which says quite a bit about the amount of support these insults are getting from other folks in this thread. And it's not just this thread either-- even though it's been relatively tame these past few months, gender-swap request threads are almost always filled with these exact same (heavily-upvoted) insults from other players. It's been happening for years, ever since the devs first said no to the issue.

 

And I get what you mean by paywalling alt-genders, but in the game's current state, paywalling alt-genders is really the only way the devs would make any money out of it were they to actually do it. And I don't mind it too much, either; while most players aren't interested in buying alt-genders, there are still a solid number of folks like myself who would be perfectly fine with doing that.

 

EDIT:

But take a look at this from a player getting fresh into the game.

Say you wanna play Volt because you like the electricity theme, though you would actually prefer playing as a female character.
You play the tutorial and like to play as him and get to your liset. You look around and later on find out about the market, and there you see an Alt-gender Skin for Volt.

You'll probably ask if the DEvs are out of their minds charging money for being able to choose your gender, if you have come from any kind of RPG where it's a global, free feature.

If i was a new player and i'd find out i have to pay money to get the gender i want? i'd quit the game immediately because that wouldn't bode well for the rest of the content.

That's a really strong point, actually, and I hadn't considered it at all up till now.

I think the issue could be potentially lessened if the devs were to somehow emphasize the "premium"-ness of those skins, like they do with Proto/Palatine/Strega/etc, so that new players could look at them in the marketplace and see them as pretty things that they could one day buy rather than a blatant cash grab.

Not the best solution, of course, but I'm sure there are other ways around it that I can't think of at the moment.

Edited March 19, 2016 by SortaRandom

[Stoner]

11 minutes ago, Jaruis said:

Then give me some good expectations on the rule 63 models, because the workshop will become as bad as skyrim's mods. 

 

[Ryouhi]

3 minutes ago, SortaRandom said:

It's one ad hominem attack with a crapton of upvotes, which says quite a bit about the amount of support these insults are getting from other folks in this thread. And it's not just this thread either-- even though it's been relatively tame these past few months, gender-swap request threads are almost always filled with these exact same (heavily-upvoted) insults from other players. It's been happening for years, ever since the devs first said no to the issue.

 

And I get what you mean by paywalling alt-genders, but in the game's current state, paywalling alt-genders is really the only way the devs would make any money out of it were they to actually do it. And I don't mind it too much, either; while most players aren't interested in buying alt-genders, there are still a solid number of folks like myself who would be perfectly fine with doing that.

That's probably because the topic has been argued over a million times by now, but peope seem to never use the search function, as well as most OPs being akin to: hey DE can you plz make Alt-Gender skins? kthxbye
like literally the OP of this thread is a picture of FemAsh saying "that's all i have to say".

That's neither constructive, nor is it tackling many of the obvious problems of alt skins like lore, character, workload, paywalling gender and all that jazz

 

people have grown tired of repeating the same old arguments time and time again

[shut]

20 minutes ago, Ryouhi said:

11 minutes ago, Ryouhi said:

That's probably because the topic has been argued over a million times by now, but peope seem to never use the search function, as well as most OPs being akin to: hey DE can you plz make Alt-Gender skins? kthxbye
like literally the OP of this thread is a picture of FemAsh saying "that's all i have to say".

That's neither constructive, nor is it tackling many of the obvious problems of alt skins like lore, character, workload, paywalling gender and all that jazz

 

people have grown tired of repeating the same old arguments time and time again

(SortaRandom's post. Sorry about the formatting.)

Having a topic appear repeatedly isn't an excuse to launch a bunch of personal attacks against the threadstarters, even if their threads are super low-effort. We see "equippable Stalker helms" threads appear all the time; does that make it okay to insult those players as well?

I have a brilliant solution to all this called "Let's just not insult each other". Seriously, we're better than this.

Edited March 19, 2016 by SortaRandom

[Ryouhi]

3 minutes ago, SortaRandom said:

 

Well that's something i can definitely agree with^^

 

Woops, seems like my formatting isnt quite up to snuff either lol
somehow i cant quote you xD

Edited March 19, 2016 by Ryouhi

[Mak_Gohae]

You guys know we are controlling drones, right?

They have no gender, they are just machines made to look like random stuff.

This is why we have a war machine that looks like Mr. Peanut.

Like.... if you can seriously play with the Void Mage without complains, you can play as a frame that has boobs.

[Sloan441]

Never say never is pretty much a philosophy at DE.

However, if you watch the stream, the devs are pretty adamant that this isn't going to happen. The tennogen stuff caught them a bit off guard, but they still seemed very disinclined to enable swapping the sex of warframes.

Most of the warframes have rather particular identities and this would fly in the face of that.

[PotatoTrapdoor]

I personally don't see much problem with this, as Tennogen skins. I feel that DE shouldn't waste their time on this and rather leave it to the community. after all, you can change a lot of other things in terms of appearance. Take Rhino, for example:

 

Spoiler

Teddy Bear

to a Knight

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 19, 2016 by PotatoTrapdoor

[StealthDragoon]

Seriously? After all those years, they finally cave in to gender-confused SJW? wow...

[Kai_Shiba]

1 minute ago, StealthDragoon said:

Seriously? After all those years, they finally cave in to gender-confused SJW? wow...

They didn't say they would do it. They just said it was highly unlikely that they would do any of the Tennogen for it.

[zValor]

I am personally against it cause for me its lore breaking and risks to disrupt the balance of male and female warframe representation which seems pretty even unlike most games.

Also I want DE to be able to work without having to make sure theyre gender neutral about everything.

[armedpoop]

14 minutes ago, PotatoTrapdoor said:

I personally don't see much problem with this, as Tennogen skins. I feel that DE shouldn't waste their time on this and rather leave it to the community. after all, you can change a lot of other things in terms of appearance. Take Rhino, for example:

 

Hidden Content

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

based on your example tho, hes still male, and still has the same shape so all the rigging and placentment of gear fits in all the same places. Surely a female rhino would need some extra work done to make all the weapons fit and look proper, right? Not to mention the animation sets and actual rigging to hold stuff properly.

[Currilicious]

If this can be done I don't mind having more customization options.

[Lyravain]

9 hours ago, RadioLarity said:

And was mentioned again.
Just, if we have a chance to change something in the game to our liking, why just wait, instead of acting?
Like it was over a year ago. And literally always in this community.

Genderswap was mentioned. Then it was denied. Rebecca stated that they are NOT going to genderswap.

Do you want DE to spend more time catering to a small amount of people who must always play male or female characters (instead of accepting that, hey, this frame is male/female, deal with it), or do you want them to work a bit more on debugging the admittedly large number of bugs in this game? Me, I'd go for second.

At best you'd get, would be TennoGen. And that's a maybe.

In other words, accept that your female-Ash-senpai won't come true anytime soon and keep playing the game :D

[marelooke]

Imho this is a waste of time for DE. As far as I know, Tennogen are "just" (I mean, it's still a lot of work, so hats of to those folks) retextures, but creating a female version of a Warframe would require creating an entirely new *model* with its own animations etc. That's a *lot* of work and as far as I know *not* in scope of the Tennogen program (but do correct me if I'm wrong). It' s also the reason why DE scrapped the idea back in the day, way too much effort for way too little reward, that time would be better spent on creating new Warframes or other assets (weapons, tiles and/or tilesets).

The frames' genders are now also explained somewhat in the lore, so some serious retconning would be required to support genderswapping (wouldn't be the first retcon, of course, but any retcon is kinda "meh"). Moreover now that we know that we're puppeteers and can design our operator I don't really see why the gender of our "drone" matters.

[OverlordMcGeek]

35 minutes ago, StealthDragoon said:

Seriously? After all those years, they finally cave in to gender-confused SJW? wow...

No. They said it won't happen since Tennogen is a thing now they had to mention it again.

[Necromanrius]

hmm, perhaps we could. TO be honest, I'm completely neutral in the genderswap discussion. I don't really want it, but nor will I mind if it's implemented.

 

However, I do worry about the lore, and any effect this may have on it. To me, lore is an important part of any game, and the codex entries, the second dream, the Inaros quests.... all these things are what keeps me playing, much more than just new loot. Since we still don't know much about Warframes and how they came to be, we can't say for sure how much room for customization exists for these Frames.

Though, if they are genderlocked, it would give us a pretty big clue as to how they are made, and if they're not, well, it will invalidate some hypothesis about their conception. So my guess is, DE won't say neither yes nor no, and keep us guessing.

[-Amaterasu-]

4 hours ago, LegionCynex said:

1. Can be Fixed Easily..

2. ^

3. They Shuold

4. No, but full made models will be nice

5. Too Bad...

6. Shes Hot

7. You already answered that, with the first line of text

8. Shes cute

9. I agree with this alot, tho its not that much only £3 Max

1. and 2. would require too much work from DE to make it really viable when they could just as easily choose one of the other skins at like or better quality and only have to fix minor clipping issues I'm not saying it can't be done but compared to other skins based on the default model of the frame it would be a lot more work.

3. no they shoulden't don't make this about them they have stated multiple times now that they don't want to do this they simply stated that they were open to the community giving it a try if they started doing it then they're just digging themselves a hole where at some point they're going to have to all but make the skins themselves just for consistancy/quality

4.models will almost certainly never be a thing as at that point I'm pretty sure it would technically need to be something like another frame (which at that point all you really need to do is wait and I'm sure they'll get to it eventually there are only so many elements just look at nezha and ember) unless they want to add that as an ingame feature and even then that would be horrible since someone who doesn't work for DE would need to be decided as the base model for all skins to be made off of which not everyone would agree on again almost forcing DE to make alt gender models so people can have their skins

5.Tell that to every console player who actually wants this

6 and 8 Valkyr is actually voice acted if you didn't catch that again not DE's problem and if you think people are complaining about immersion now...

7. mmmmmmk...?

9.even if it isn't much it all but forces you to play on steam if you actually want it and further segregates the community by forcing you to pay for it with real(er) money.

[SonicSonedit]

20 hours ago, Ellthan said:

Your only arguement is "They look pwetty"?

People don't have a problem with them "Looking pwetty".

The problem is that they break the lore. Warframes are meant to be suits/puppets created from the imprint of one specific person, they have a personallity, a history and a lore behind them, alt gender versions existing makes no sense.

There was 1 original limbo created from zariman and all subsequent suits are his copies. He was male, so all the copies made from him are male.

There was 1 original mirage created from zariman and all subsequent suits are her copies. She was female, so all the copies made from her are female.

 

And fyi, I do not think the ember you linked looks great or even good. It's a WIP and you can easily tell that, it no distinuishing characteristics and looks just like a normal person with a silly helmet, if it weren't for a helmet you couldn't even tell its a warframe.

*couch* Prime versions *couch*

Edited March 20, 2016 by SonicSonedit

[arch111]

55 minutes ago, SonicSonedit said:

*couch* Prime versions *couch*

And Proto Excalibur.  And Premium skins. And Nemesis. And Gersemi.

Allso. We do not know yet what warframes are.

[arch111]

21 minutes ago, Ellthan said:

k, what about prime versions?

 

Proto excalibur is the original excalibur, premium skins are still the original frame with a bit different plating.

That arguement doesen't work here, or by your logic equiping a syndana would change the void imprint.

I can make a reverse argument. Since the warframe is a surrogate, and expendable, nothing would have prevented the Orokin to craft both genders,  or indeed as many model-variants as they wanted to.

There IS no Lore that says the warframes were made from living actual persons. You nay as well make a case for all warfames are infested monsters because of the Rhino Prime Codex,  and Saryn Prime Video.

[Rekkou]

Question : Is it possible to add genderswap through tennogen?

Answer : Hmm,maybe....

What people heard : YES! ABSOLUTELY!

I'm actually indifferent towards the idea (i'd probably going to make some if it's allowed), but can people just stop twisting words to their own favor? It won't do you any good, it's just going to delude you and made you believe you are promised something when you are not.

DE say nay to some idea but then made it, but they also scrapped some of their own idea. So unless it's actually happening, take everything with a grain of dead sea's salt.