I've never seen anyone play Mesa

[JohnViande]

I use her quite a bit at the moment, but only solo.

I don't want to bring her to a team because of shooting gallery. The switching from one ally to the other just makes the ability useless and unreliable (and yes I know there's a build with the augment that specifically relies on the switching for crowd control but that's just useless compared to other CC from more CC-oriented frames).

[Venomzz0]

4 minutes ago, DERebecca said:

Just a few quick conversational remarks about Mesa, particularly Peacemaker.

As Venomzz0 was points out 'and if Peacemaker scaled off of secondary mods it would be godlike'. I was recently discussing the fact that almost all other Warframe-unique weapon abilities (Exalted Blade, Hysteria, Artemis) scale with underlying weapon-type mods, and now we are prototyping Peacemaker to scale with Secondary Weapon Mods to possibly join the club. So stay tuned if this is a prototype that interests you!

YES, that would be a prototype I would love to see, and if implemented Mesa would probably become my main. Thanks for the info, its awesome to see you guys are taking another look! :D

[dmkrodan]

5 minutes ago, DERebecca said:

Just a few quick conversational remarks about Mesa, particularly Peacemaker.

As Venomzz0 was points out 'and if Peacemaker scaled off of secondary mods it would be godlike'. I was recently discussing the fact that almost all other Warframe-unique weapon abilities (Exalted Blade, Hysteria, Artemis) scale with underlying weapon-type mods, and now we are prototyping Peacemaker to scale with Secondary Weapon Mods to possibly join the club. So stay tuned if this is a prototype that interests you!


Edit: Also cleaning up this thread a bit. A reminder that constructive remarks are best, and a thank you to those in the thread that worked to salvage constructive discourse.

Can she please be considered to be allowed to move freely? I really feel like in a game that touts its mobility, forcing us to stand in place strongly becomes antithetical to the feel of the game.

[God_is_a_Cat_Girl]

15 minutes ago, DERebecca said:

Just a few quick conversational remarks about Mesa, particularly Peacemaker.

As Venomzz0 was points out 'and if Peacemaker scaled off of secondary mods it would be godlike'. I was recently discussing the fact that almost all other Warframe-unique weapon abilities (Exalted Blade, Hysteria, Artemis) scale with underlying weapon-type mods, and now we are prototyping Peacemaker to scale with Secondary Weapon Mods to possibly join the club. So stay tuned if this is a prototype that interests you!


Edit: Also cleaning up this thread a bit. A reminder that constructive remarks are best, and a thank you to those in the thread that worked to salvage constructive discourse.

As long as the aimbot goes away (or at least shoots things that other warframe unique weapons can but Mesa can't, she even has trouble killing trash mobs at any level if they take cover, even when normal guns can hit their knee or elbow and kill them, the aimbot many times won't do it, and while you are trying to make it work, you can move to go around the corner without recasting, and while you are not shooting you are losing energy at a stunning speed, and then if you recast just for a mob or 2 around the corner, it's a waste of energy, so it really limits it's usage besides "aims for you IF in full view") and we can move, I'm all up for it. The whole static state just doesn't fit anymore since we have to "aim" anyway, if anything it only makes it worse, because you can't overcome simple things like corners without recasting, which makes her already terrible energy efficiency, worse.

(I'd honestly prefer her to be more like Ivara, less like old Mesa.)

 

Mesa was a frame that I REALLY liked but grew bored of her (second most used frame and I haven't used her in a good while, not actively), it wasn't the changes, because I didn't really use Peacemaker all that much to start with, but comparing with more recent frames, her abilities stopped being exciting (her 1 for example is use and forget and only useful against a target you can kill fast enough and only good for like, 10 levels until it stops being that good anymore and more of a bother to cast all the time and check if it's ready). 2 and 3 are good, not going into that, but it's pretty much what I used all the time.

Edited March 23, 2016 by God_is_a_Cat_Girl

[The_Mustachio]

30 minutes ago, (PS4)Clockwork-Crow said:

If you won't play a frame for the utility or powers it has, then do it for the style. 

Unleash your inner Warframe fashionista!

Mesa + Telos Akbolto + Salix Syandana = Endgame Mesa

That's awesome! I run Salix on my Mesa :p 

To the topic: I think Mesa is a great frame. I would place her in my 2nd tier of frames. Tier 1* being everyday frames e.g. Frost, Nova, Rhino, Excalibur. Tier 2* being casual/fun frames e.g. Mesa, Ivara, Nezha. Tier 3* being niche frames e.g. Vauban, Banshee, Hydroid. 

 

* Please note, my tier system is my opinion and not an endorsed system by Digital Extreme or its player base. 

[TheGreatBB]

8 minutes ago, Aura said:

Why don't all warframes scale like this?

warframes like vauban, limbo, zephyr, etc... They are so lackluster compared to these "divine weapon" warframes

EDIT: understandably, if divine weapons were the only ult spread across all warframes, it'd be a bland game, but it can't be that hard to design a concept for individual warframes to have more engaging ult-play.

example: chroma has a sentry turret as his ult which drains energy faster than World on Fire... No engagement and even less effective.

It would be nice if Vauban had a shift. 1 and 3 stay the same, 2 is removed and replaced with 4 and a new 4 is made. Would make him more than just "Bastille".

[MartianJellyfish]

 

Quote

I've never seen anyone play Mesa

 

Hello.

Edited March 23, 2016 by MartianJellyfish

[Hawkeifun]

cuz  nerf.

 

[HellEnforcer]

Just now, Noamuth said:

I almost never see Banshee or Nekros these days.

 

Banshee seems to be rather useless at this point. I kind of feel reluctant to use her as it seems she is incredibly underperforming. Mostly because she deals incredibly low damage with her skills alone and is more of a cc frame but locking her while doing so. Not very useful for solo players like me. Her sonic boom is a n awesome panic button and sonar is good for though enemies if you can hit the areas, but other than that, she is rather null for me.

[Archwizard]

12 minutes ago, DERebecca said:

Just a few quick conversational remarks about Mesa, particularly Peacemaker.

As Venomzz0 was points out 'and if Peacemaker scaled off of secondary mods it would be godlike'. I was recently discussing the fact that almost all other Warframe-unique weapon abilities (Exalted Blade, Hysteria, Artemis) scale with underlying weapon-type mods, and now we are prototyping Peacemaker to scale with Secondary Weapon Mods to possibly join the club. So stay tuned if this is a prototype that interests you!

Interesting! I think Peacemaker might require a few additional reductions to its damage output to make this balanced, however, given that its automatic fire function could create an insane amount of damage that would blow Artemis Bow out of the water.

I'd also recommend giving it an alt-fire function to toggle Ballistic Battery, or possibly allowing use of all abilities while active.

[rawr1254]

21 minutes ago, DERebecca said:

As Venozz0 was points out 'and if Peacemaker scaled off of secondary mods it would be godlike'. I was recently discussing the fact that almost all other Warframe-unique weapon abilities (Exalted Blade, Hysteria, Artemis) scale with underlying weapon-type mods, and now we are prototyping Peacemaker to scale with Secondary Weapon Mods to possibly join the club. So stay tuned if this is a prototype that interests you!

Im ok with these "exalted weapons" and all just...it's extremely irritating to have to build weapons where on their own they're utterly horrible. For instance you build a melee weapon for Excals EB...It works GREAT with EB because of the certain mods you put into the weapon and all because it works well specifically with that ability. But say your energy gets depleted for whatever reason, now you have a mediocre weapon at best due to it being built for only the exalted part.

Same can be said for Ivara. It pretty much must be a weapon with PS/VS. While this is a neat way of doing this now they player is forced to "maybe" use a weapon that in reality isn't that good to use all the time, ie a bow, Soma P, etc. I'm thinking more of what happens when you run out of energy and are now stuck with a crappily built/crappy weapon only cause you had to use said weapon just because of it being the best for the exalted weapon.

 

Edited March 23, 2016 by rawr1254

[StealthDragoon]

Once upon a time, Mesa was the most powerful, most hyped character in Warframe. There was a market for Mutalist Coords and keys. She was the type of Warframe that could solo high level defense while picking her nose.

at her peak, Mesa could use the 360 Peacemaker while Gliding in the air. These were her best days.

But then, DE double-nerfed her. Her Peacemaker rework came right around the time Toggled Ability became duration+efficiency based. So not only did she lose 3/4 of her power, she consumed far too much energy, which required more Forma respec. At that point, Mesa nearly disappeared completely from pretty much every game.

Fun thing is, when Toggled Ability Duration update came in, Ember got buffed. Nowadays all you see in pubs is Embers running around like headless chicken trying to grab the next energy orb. And people thought Mesa was bad... /badfeels

[Anubias]

Well her ult should benefit from secondary weapons mods for start (cause she's very un-end-game-ish) the should be able to move (walk (you could see that when there was lag and you used your ult looked badass btw) dodge)
 

[MagPrime]

11 minutes ago, HellEnforcer said:

 

Banshee seems to be rather useless at this point. I kind of feel reluctant to use her as it seems she is incredibly underperforming. Mostly because she deals incredibly low damage with her skills alone and is more of a cc frame but locking her while doing so. Not very useful for solo players like me. Her sonic boom is a n awesome panic button and sonar is good for though enemies if you can hit the areas, but other than that, she is rather null for me.

Really?  I love taking her solo on Spy missions or on newbie herdings.  She really shines in both places for me.

[EmptyDevil]

2 minutes ago, rawr1254 said:

Im ok with these "exalted weapons" and all just...it's extremely irritating to have to build weapons where on their own they're utterly horrible. For instance you build a melee weapon for Excals EB...It works GREAT with EB because of the certain mods you put into the weapon and all because it works well specifically with that ability. But say your energy gets depleted for whatever reason, now you have a mediocre weapon at best due to it being built for only the exalted part.

Same can be said for Ivara. It pretty much must be a weapon with PS/VS. While this is a neat way of doing this now they player is forced to "maybe" use a weapon that in reality isn't that good to use all the time, ie a bow. I'm thinking more of what happens when you run out of energy and are now stuck with a crappily built/crappy weapon only cause you had to use said weapon just because of it being the best for the exalted weapon.

 

I'm struggling to see what you're actually complaining about to be honest. You should know that it's the basic weapon mods that make the ability better, not the weapon itself. There are no 'best weapons' for the Exalted abilities anymore.

[Azamagon]

18 minutes ago, DERebecca said:

Just a few quick conversational remarks about Mesa, particularly Peacemaker.

As Venomzz0 was points out 'and if Peacemaker scaled off of secondary mods it would be godlike'. I was recently discussing the fact that almost all other Warframe-unique weapon abilities (Exalted Blade, Hysteria, Artemis) scale with underlying weapon-type mods, and now we are prototyping Peacemaker to scale with Secondary Weapon Mods to possibly join the club. So stay tuned if this is a prototype that interests you!


Edit: Also cleaning up this thread a bit. A reminder that constructive remarks are best, and a thank you to those in the thread that worked to salvage constructive discourse.

While her scalability is not maybe the best (and thus making her scale of secondary mods with the high likelyhood that the base stats are lowered a little, a good idea), the main problem is that it is not very interactive. Turretmode limits her playstyle a lot, and is frankly a bit dull.

I understand that you like to keep your creations as close to their original implementations, so hearing people saying "mobile Peacemaker Mesa please" is probably annoying... unless... you can do BOTH!

Just hear me out on this:

* Activating PM is like activating any other "Exalted" weapon, and you can move around with them normally while they are summoned, as well as cast her other abilities.
* Primary fire is the players' wishes: Shooting by yourself, with no autoaim or anything (zooming also grants normal zoom)
* Secondary fire is your original idea: 360 degree Gunkata, during which you cannot move.
* Either keep it as an energydrain per second (but lower it, please!), or per shot, like with Ivara.

Now, how could you balance these two things to make them interact with one another? Here's the continued idea:
* Secondary fire has X amount of shots with full range (50 meter radius). After those X shots, the radius starts decreasing with each further shot (Shrinks slower if you mod for more Power Range).
* As long as you don't shoot with secondary fire, the range grows back over time, including growing back those first fullrange shots (Regrowth time is quicker with more Power Duration)
* Primary fire, to make it rewarding, also grows back a tiny bit of the secondary fire's range (or fullrange shots when range is full) when you succesfully hit a target with it. This regrowth amount could be unaffected by mods.

That way, you would alternate between the two shooting modes to optimize your performance. You could also please both crowds: Both your creator's pride AND the players wishes. Win-win, imo :)

[dmkrodan]

25 minutes ago, God_is_a_Cat_Girl said:

As long as the aimbot goes away (or at least shoots things that other warframe unique weapons can but Mesa can't, she even has trouble killing trash mobs at any level if they take cover, even when normal guns can hit their knee or elbow and kill them, the aimbot many times won't do it, and while you are trying to make it work, you can move to go around the corner without recasting, and while you are not shooting you are losing energy at a stunning speed, and then if you recast just for a mob or 2 around the corner, it's a waste of energy, so it really limits it's usage besides "aims for you IF in full view") and we can move, I'm all up for it. The whole static state just doesn't fit anymore since we have to "aim" anyway, if anything it only makes it worse, because you can't overcome simple things like corners without recasting, which makes her already terrible energy efficiency, worse.

(I'd honestly prefer her to be more like Ivara, less like old Mesa.)

 

Mesa was a frame that I REALLY liked but grew bored of her (second most used frame and I haven't used her in a good while, not actively), it wasn't the changes, because I didn't really use Peacemaker all that much to start with, but comparing with more recent frames, her abilities stopped being exciting (her 1 for example is use and forget and only useful against a target you can kill fast enough and only good for like, 10 levels until it stops being that good anymore and more of a bother to cast all the time and check if it's ready). 2 and 3 are good, not going into that, but it's pretty much what I used all the time.

you know, instead of just punch through, i feel like they could touch up peacemaker to reward skill and remove the aimbot entirely. Like, reward us for headshots! or even, give a situational effect based on what part of the body you hit. 

 

Arm shot: causes enemy weapon to jam

Leg shot: immobilizes them

Body shot: grants a proc chance for either one of the few that will kick them to their feet, or perhaps a bleed proc. or perhaps both!

 

Head shot: grant a chance for a headshot to "ricochet" to other nearby targets, striking them in a random location. Headshots can ricochet multiple times in a row, but with decreasing odds of a headshot ricochet with each ricochet. 

 

there are so many ways that peacemaker could be done that would be so much more rewarding than how it is now. It really was not fun before, when it played defense missions for us, but it is especially not fun now when we have so many fun and unique and MOBILE channel skill types to compare it to. 

[motorfirebox]

Peacemaker should absolutely be modeled off Exalted Blade, with a few changes that make it more "shooty" than "swordy". While Peacemaker is up, your melee attack is replaced with your Regulator pistols, which scale off your secondary damage mods. Blocking doesn't worth with your Regulators; instead, you zoom in as if aiming with a firearm and autotarget everything in your reticle (similar to how Peacemaker currently works, but at reduced damage and without the ramp-up). Slide attacks do a half-damage body shot against everything within 3m. Charge attacks let you fan six shots in a narrow arc in front of you with increased damage.

While standing still, every hit with your Regulators fills up your Trigger meter. Headshots count triple for the meter, moving or jumping drains the meter. When your Trigger meter is full, you enter Gunslinger mode, granting all of your Regulator shots 0.5m punchthrough and increased attack speed. Your slide attacks do full-damage headshots against everything within 8m, and charge attacks do extra damage and an additional 0.5m punchthrough. Every attack during Gunslinger mode drains your Trigger; Gunslinger ends when the Trigger is empty.

[God_is_a_Cat_Girl]

6 minutes ago, dmkrodan said:

you know, instead of just punch through, i feel like they could touch up peacemaker to reward skill and remove the aimbot entirely. Like, reward us for headshots! or even, give a situational effect based on what part of the body you hit. 

 

Arm shot: causes enemy weapon to jam

Leg shot: immobilizes them

Body shot: grants a proc chance for either one of the few that will kick them to their feet, or perhaps a bleed proc. or perhaps both!

 

Head shot: grant a chance for a headshot to "ricochet" to other nearby targets, striking them in a random location. Headshots can ricochet multiple times in a row, but with decreasing odds of a headshot ricochet with each ricochet. 

 

there are so many ways that peacemaker could be done that would be so much more rewarding than how it is now. It really was not fun before, when it played defense missions for us, but it is especially not fun now when we have so many fun and unique and MOBILE channel skill types to compare it to. 

Yeah, I'd rather have a gun with function and no aimbot.

Or they could have it work without aimbot but have a chance of an extra shot on an enemy around you (closest to you perhaps) by the aimbot and have her after images show up to signal that (because the whole deal is that she was fast), but the chance for the extra shot only happens IF you hit an enemy, so you can't just fire blindly. Or well, maybe like you said it with the headshot, except instead of Ricochet she just fires it automatically herself.
Having her have her own gimmick rewarding skill would also make her fun (because every Exalted weapon has a gimmick, so she should have one too).

Edited March 23, 2016 by God_is_a_Cat_Girl

[HellEnforcer]

Just now, Noamuth said:

Really?  I love taking her solo on Spy missions or on newbie herdings.  She really shines in both places for me.

Then that means I need to learn how to use her properly. Sort to speak. I can survive and accomplish the objectives, I'm just bad with her I suppose, hence making her a bit tedious for me to use. I will have to see how can I tweak my playstyle with her.

[MagPrime]

6 minutes ago, HellEnforcer said:

Then that means I need to learn how to use her properly. Sort to speak. I can survive and accomplish the objectives, I'm just bad with her I suppose, hence making her a bit tedious for me to use. I will have to see how can I tweak my playstyle with her.

I'd offer to run with you for a few missions, but I wont be in game for a few weeks. : /

[S0V3REiGN]

I hope that part of the Peacemaker rework includes a revist to the energy consumption of the ability. I have yet to figure out why Excal can get exalted blade to .65 ember's world on fire to around .75 yet Mesa is stuck to 3.75... there is no logic on that.

Edited March 23, 2016 by S0V3REiGN

[MagPrime]

52 minutes ago, DERebecca said:

Just a few quick conversational remarks about Mesa, particularly Peacemaker.

As Venomzz0 was points out 'and if Peacemaker scaled off of secondary mods it would be godlike'. I was recently discussing the fact that almost all other Warframe-unique weapon abilities (Exalted Blade, Hysteria, Artemis) scale with underlying weapon-type mods, and now we are prototyping Peacemaker to scale with Secondary Weapon Mods to possibly join the club. So stay tuned if this is a prototype that interests you!


Edit: Also cleaning up this thread a bit. A reminder that constructive remarks are best, and a thank you to those in the thread that worked to salvage constructive discourse.

I concede that the first half of my original post was off topic, but did the bottom part need to go as well?

[rawr1254]

22 minutes ago, EmptyDevil said:

I'm struggling to see what you're actually complaining about to be honest. You should know that it's the basic weapon mods that make the ability better, not the weapon itself. There are no 'best weapons' for the Exalted abilities anymore.

There is always gonna be a better to use weapon. While using a sword/nikana will give it that 10% dmg buff also having a higher base speed weapon is better too. With P Fury the Tipedo is an excellent weapon to use with it because of the high base speed and not really needing speed mods for some extra damage. But outside of using that it's a horrible melee weapon to use. But now like I said this is if your aiming to have a weapon that works best with the ability. So again like I said you have to use a weapon that may or may not be good with it. And on top of that the only way to really get melee to scale later game nowadays is body count + Blood rush and these two mods dont work on exalted melee so you dont use them. And this is how it should be, those two mods working with exalted would be bad. But again you're forced not to or to use something.

[Autongnosis]

I think, as someone else proposed earlier today (i think it was today) that both Ash and Mesa, as the original frames who had hidden weapons should just jump into it and get proper Exalted weapons.

I mean, they would lose something in terms of uniqueness because a lot of frames now have that concept, but they'd also gain a lot more in terms of fun and effectiveness - and, bloody hell, they have weapons on them, let them use them properly :)

 

I understand this is a bit controvertial and wouldn't make everyone happy, but i feel that'd be the best way to go. Obviously in that case they'd have to be revised completely and balanced properly on the double scaling (frame power mods and weapon mods).