Why do nullifiers still exist?

[-CM-Hekovashi]

You wanna create a unit that will block my aoe spells and will protect nearby allies? Sure, ok. You wanna create a unit that will force me to ether take high RoF weapon with me or go in to melee inside bubble and lose all mine buffs? Nah-ah, thanks but nope

[RAZORLIGHT]

21 minutes ago, akira_him said:

At least healers don't accumulate their damage reduction on themselves and you can shoot it first in any distance

have fun doing this with AOE weapons/abilities

[akira_him]

Just now, RAZORLIGHT said:

have fun doing this with AOE weapons/abilities

I am not saying it is not OP, just it doesn't as OP as nullifiers that block both abilities and damage in the same time, you can still CC it
but thats another topic and I haven't fight infested for like months except sortie

[Tsoe]

30 minutes ago, akira_him said:

I

That's not the point, the point is why fast shooting weapon is always superior to slow shooting weapons in every possible senerio in this game, especially facing nullifiers, a priority target that slow firing weapons are supposed to deal with

 

i cant agree with you... i use mostly slow rate weapons like bow shoot guns and snipers and i am really happy about them in most case , only nullifier require me to have fast firing weapons actually when i dont feel going into melee XD

[bonamb]

1 hour ago, Jeetza said:

What about Grineer then? They don't have nullifiers but are still considered a good challenge despite the existence of the AOE frames you mentioned. We don't need nullifiers to have a balanced game. It can be done through other, more fair, means.

Its mostly their armour / numbers. However, with a good squad you can pretty much lock down the map, and with 3-4 corrosive procs you've basically won. 

And infested, tbh, are a joke. The only dangerous units are the ancients. Healers especially. Also ****bockable. 

The only maps you cant lock them down on are the corpus / corrupted. Because of the nullifiers and comba / scrambus. 

Corrupted have the healers from infested, the bombards / heavy gunners from grineer, and nullifiers from corpus. The three most dangerous units. Its supposed to be hard. 

1 hour ago, CapedBaldy said:

The bubbles need a rework so that the disparity isn't that massive.

I did suggest making them damage based, rather than a certain amount of shots. 

That and the sniper popping. 

 

tl;dr. The bubbles are needed, or some variant of them, as to provide widespread protection from tenno powers, and to stop people nuking everything (tonkor3op - git rid of it). However, they may need a rework. Either the bubbles, the weapons affecting them, or both. So I do kinda agree with CapedBaldy.

[[DE]Danielle]

A sizable amount of posts were hidden as they violated the Code of Conduct and were derailing the thread. I see a lot of good discussions coming from this so I would hate to shut it down. Carry on respectfully Tenno! 

[(PSN)Astro_BS-AS]

56 minutes ago, [DE]Danielle said:

A sizable amount of posts were hidden as they violated the Code of Conduct and were derailing the thread. I see a lot of good discussions coming from this so I would hate to shut it down. Carry on respectfully Tenno! 

 

Danielle, you're right, but let me ask something. 

Do anyone but you on DE reads these kind of posts? It's almost impossible to have a perfect conversation if DE seems to be oblivious to the topic. 

The only time DE changed something was to make them even more difficult to kill with non high fire rate weapons. (tonkor for example)

How about arrows and Snipers making the bubble explode? How about something at all? 

 

We respect your presence and you bring common sense to topics, but we NEED some response. If everything's ends being just "like/dislike" we're always going to end up fighting each other. 

 

Just bubble popping with Snipers and arrows. Just that. At least tell us if Scott or Steve get the message, please. 

(And excuse my poor English. I'm from Buenos Aires)

 

 

Edited April 8, 2016 by (PS4)Astro_BS-AS

[DeadlyPeanutt]

On 3/25/2016 at 0:57 PM, Murasakiiro_no_Yugure said:

yea im having fun sliding attack into the bubble just to kill it and then gets knockdown and killed right away. and yea like my puny melee attack will kill it in one hit when it is beyond level 150.

lol, that happens to me when I'm running up my body count/blood rush, i always get too close to a nullifier and get killed.

OP has a good point, why have WF abilities if the can be negated so easily?

[HellEnforcer]

I have hated the nullifiers ever since they came out. To me they transformed this awesome game into just another regular shooter with some parkour (now we got better parkour at least). They made it so that only the tankiest frames are viable to face them since all abilities are worthless or weapons of high fire rate. They have single handedly made the Corpus my most hated faction replacing the hordes of energy leechers the Infested come with.

 

On 3/25/2016 at 5:09 AM, pikaseechu said:

I will say that I prefer Comba and Scrambus over nullifiers, and with proper buffs, they could replace nullifiers altogether.

 

Comba and Scrambus are tanky, they cancel abilities, but they don't negate them. They can deal tons of damage, but can equally receive them in turn. Even with my Sancti Tigris, it takes 4 shots to down them in higher level missions and about 6 at lvl 100. (I'm talking 27k per shot, close-enough-to-melee-them in the face kind of distance between my Sancti's barrel and them.) I actually have to move, jump around and locate them. They can cancel your abilities from a distance and are usually very fast, mobile, and hard to get alone. Their entourage of corpus Tech, Ospreys, and crewmen can make them a welcome challenge.

 

Nullifiers have some magical bubble that cancels our abilities, doesn't allow us to cast them inside, and acts as a shield in which our bullets DO NOT PENETRATE. They also have SNIPERS which they use liberally when they see us approaching, and any entourage they may have dragged from hell with them bunches up inside said bubble to maul us down when we're in close proximity. They themselves aren't tanky, and will die at lvl 100 with one shot to the face from the same Sancti Tigris I use on Comba/Scrambus units.

 

I would love to see Comba and Scrambus get some kind of buff when they can do a negation of abilities like nullifiers in a cone-shaped area in front of them a la Inaros' sand-in-face. Similar to Valkyr's Paralysis animation, they can cast a wave of energy to remove debuffs like Nova's MP or Ember's Accelarant, and their AI could choose freely which units (like a Corpus Tech vs a Bursa) it wants to help. They can do so to multiple enemies seeing how mobile they are on tilesets, and would help solidify their role as a type of Tenno debuffer on the field. This prevents the magical omnipotent bubbles, does not interfere with our abilities, and will allow us more time to shoot our enemies and cast abilities but still make Comba and Scrambus a challenge on the field.  

If something like this happens, they would have to remove nullifiers, and its something I've desired for some time since they introduced our Corpus roller-skating heavies with electrical whips. (I really like these guys, if you couldn't tell. Seeing their designs in devstreams made me puke rainbows.)

I have not played for about a year. I left for various reasons back then, none really related to the game other than burnout. However, every once in a while I thought of coming back, and each and every single time I remembered the nullifiers and made me rethink that idea. You present an awesome point. When I finally came back last month I had the pleasant surprise of those combas and scrambus things. I like them pretty much for every reason you said. From time to time I get mauled by those using the micro homing missiles(I still can't recognize them from afar). They should have been introduced as a replacement for bubble man, not just yet another power penalty unit. If they are to stay, every frame should get metal blades as extra permanent ability to deal with them...

 

 

[(PSN)SupeBoss]

The role of the nullifier doesn't bother me at all. I get it.
The nullifier was put there to stop power spam. It makes sense.

However.....
They packed way too many counter-plays into ONE enemy.

1. Cancel/prevent powers
2. Cancel/prevent ranged weapon damage
3. Cacel/prevent AOE damage (ugh!!!!)
4. Protect other nearby enemies that spawn within the bubble
5. Bubble continuously regenerates until the nullifier is killed

I'm fine with a bubble that cancels powers. I am NOT fine with a makeshift mobile snowglobe that blocks everything. Super cheap.
I love combas. Shoot their helmet off - boom, aura gone. There is no counter-play to a nullifier. At all.

No CC, no shoot-off-the-magic-backpack, no AOE damage, nothing. You either need a bullet hose or you just have to risk it, run inside, and hope that you dodge the Tech/Bombard/whatever. Then you have to run to the next one, because God knows they beef up the spawn rates at higher levels.

As a Chroma player, they absolutely suck the fun out of the game.

[Xzorn]

16 hours ago, bbeeaann said:

    Even the developers have alternate accounts. Please rethink your ignorance. You can have multiple accounts, and many players do. 

   Sniping doesn't have to be the favorable option for you to use it. What you're basically complaining about is the fact that you 1. refuse to mod your sniper rifle correctly because there are specific builds on multiple sniper rifles that will down a bubble in one shot 2. complain because faster firing weapons will get more kills if another player has better reflexes/aim. This is a fact of reality. Snipers aren't there to get more kills because their weapons fire slower.

    This comment cracked me up. First you're making an assumption about me as a player. Secondly, I played TFC and DoD competitively. In DoD I sniped in matches, and usually caused the enemy to fear even approaching the area of the map I was in. I usually had over 100 kills per match with less than 10 deaths in DoD. Once again, it isn't the weapon that causes the damage. It's the player with the skill that causes the damage. 

    So how do you do Sorties with Sniper only? Or do you not do Sorties, and stick to the star chart? 

      So in other words, instead of using a weapon you know you can use, and admit to the fact you can use, you will throw a temper tantrum like a five year old on the forums holding your breath until DE changes the game to your liking? Really? I wouldn't hold your breath. You want to use one weapon in a mission when the best solution to deal with a Nullifier is to switch to your sidearm or melee weapon. You refuse to move inside the bubble to kill said target. You refuse to mod your weapon properly so you can take the shield down faster. The problem isn't DE. The problem is you because you refuse to adapt.

 

You pick little parts of things I say or completely fabricate things I didn't say, so you can have something to argue against.

 

I did not say you cannot have another account, I said you cannot do 90% of the things you would want another account for.

Yes a weapon needs to have favorable purpose for me to use it. That's the point, you go on a rant then admit snipers have a poor kill rate, That's exactly my point.  By the time their overkill damage meets up with their poor kill rate, the enemy level is far to high to consider melee and the few extra seconds it takes to bring down their bubble results in death.

You go on another rant about how pro you are making people fear your snipe skilz when my point was how stupid of a strategy it is to charge someone with a gun using a melee weapon. You yet again assist my point.

Sorties are made so people can think they hit some sorta end game goal, Where as people like myself have gone into the quad digits. Just like any inexperience player they resort to Sorties conditionals to try and argue a point when Sorties are irrelevant to the argument.

 

Mixed with your fabrications of anything I said and lack of coherence, you're basically arguing with the wind.

I see nothing productive coming from any further conversation.

Edited April 9, 2016 by Xzorn

[Hidrio]

i think an nullifier rework would be cool, also another way to kill nullies easy is to use blast glaive with toxic, and blast it on their feet.

[Bibliothekar]

6 hours ago, Xzorn said:

I said you cannot do 90% of the things you would want another account for.

I'd like to know what you think those things are. I made one quite a while back to test new-player-experience (like Scott did recently) and things like "how often do you need to do the Kubrow quest to finally get an egg" (hint: it's easier to wait for an alert with one).

3 hours ago, Hidrio said:

also another way to kill nullies easy is to use blast glaive with toxic, and blast it on their feet.

Remember when we had the "thrown melee only" escort Tactical Alert? When I saw all those Nullifiers, I was hoping that DE had changed it so thrown melee could penetrate their bubble. Imagine my disappointment...

[Hidrio]

5 minutes ago, Bibliothekar said:

I'd like to know what you think those things are. I made one quite a while back to test new-player-experience (like Scott did recently) and things like "how often do you need to do the Kubrow quest to finally get an egg" (hint: it's easier to wait for an alert with one).

Remember when we had the "thrown melee only" escort Tactical Alert? When I saw all those Nullifiers, I was hoping that DE had changed it so thrown melee could penetrate their bubble. Imagine my disappointment...

power throw mod, and u can penetrade thier bubble with glaive

:p

 

ps: aim on the floor on their feet

Edited April 9, 2016 by Hidrio

[IceColdHawk]

14 hours ago, (PS4)SupeBoss said:

The role of the nullifier doesn't bother me at all. I get it.
The nullifier was put there to stop power spam. It makes sense.

However.....
They packed way too many counter-plays into ONE enemy.

1. Cancel/prevent powers
2. Cancel/prevent ranged weapon damage
3. Cacel/prevent AOE damage (ugh!!!!)
4. Protect other nearby enemies that spawn within the bubble
5. Bubble continuously regenerates until the nullifier is killed

I'm fine with a bubble that cancels powers. I am NOT fine with a makeshift mobile snowglobe that blocks everything. Super cheap.
I love combas. Shoot their helmet off - boom, aura gone. There is no counter-play to a nullifier. At all.

No CC, no shoot-off-the-magic-backpack, no AOE damage, nothing. You either need a bullet hose or you just have to risk it, run inside, and hope that you dodge the Tech/Bombard/whatever. Then you have to run to the next one, because God knows they beef up the spawn rates at higher levels.

As a Chroma player, they absolutely suck the fun out of the game.

THANK YOU!  

Btw you forgot to mention it's incredibly high spawn rate too.

Edited April 9, 2016 by IceColdHawk

[Xzorn]

5 minutes ago, Bibliothekar said:

I'd like to know what you think those things are. I made one quite a while back to test new-player-experience (like Scott did recently) and things like "how often do you need to do the Kubrow quest to finally get an egg" (hint: it's easier to wait for an alert with one).

 

From my understanding you basically cannot have your accounts interact or aid each other in any way.

[Sold0ut]

I like Nullifiers. It's currently basically the only thing some NPCs can do to stop overly insane ability spam that otherwise locks down the entire game. There's a reason Draco farm is happening against Grineer and not Corpus.

[LoneDirewolf]

58 minutes ago, Sold0ut said:

I like Nullifiers. It's currently basically the only thing some NPCs can do to stop overly insane ability spam that otherwise locks down the entire game. There's a reason Draco farm is happening against Grineer and not Corpus.

Cause affinity gain is slow in regular gameplay and the fact that corpus have like 6 enemies  you have to "prioritize" is the reason for Draco and people skipping corpus sorties.

[Sold0ut]

Just now, LoneDirewolf said:

Cause affinity gain is slow in regular gameplay and the fact that corpus have like 6 enemies  you have to "prioritize" is the reason for Draco and people skipping corpus sorties.

No, the reason is that there's not a single Grineer enemy that can do anything, and I repeat, anything, about constant Blind spam. 

[LoneDirewolf]

1 minute ago, Sold0ut said:

No, the reason is that there's not a single Grineer enemy that can do anything, and I repeat, anything, about constant Blind spam. 

Well if you enjoy not using warframe abilities in a game thats based on that, then all power to you i guess. CC is strong, too bad game has so bad enemy scaling and cheap enemies that CC is only option when you reach high enought in survival. DE themselves have made CC top, maybe they should focus on balancing that instead of going for a band aid "enemy that takes your powers away" and making the game unfun, for me that is.

[Sold0ut]

4 minutes ago, LoneDirewolf said:

Well if you enjoy not using warframe abilities in a game thats based on that, then all power to you i guess. CC is strong, too bad game has so bad enemy scaling and cheap enemies that CC is only option when you reach high enought in survival. DE themselves have made CC top, maybe they should focus on balancing that instead of going for a band aid "enemy that takes your powers away" and making the game unfun, for me that is.

Oh god-diddly-darn please. This is not about me "not using warframe abilities in a game based on that"

This is about the fact that you can shut down the entire enemy AI by pressing the same button over and over again, across the entire map, and the AI can do literally nothing to stop you. Have you ever, I repeat, ever, had a Blind spamming Mirage in your team? Maybe an excal? No, this is not about cheap enemies. This is about enemies literally not functioning in a 50 meter radius or more. With a mirage in particular not a single enemy in the entire Grineer set can leave spawn. Ever.

 

The current sorties? Level 100 interception. Three waves. Bring a blind mirage. I dare you. All that happens then is that you will win 100%-0% every round because not a single enemy will be able to leave their spawn. EVER.

 

That's why I like Nullifiers as a principle, at least until they fix things like this.

 

Addition: Now if they were to actually balance and fix that, I'd be more open for Nullifier changes. As-is, I like them, and I already main Nova, and I often feel like Nullifiers are the only thing stopping me from just shutting down the game too, and I'm happy every single time for it.

Edited April 9, 2016 by Sold0ut
"Addition" part.

[EvilChaosKnight]

I honestly could care less about Nullicancer stopping mah powers, that I can work around. But seriously.

Stop. Nullifying. My. Damn. Guns.

[IceColdHawk]

15 minutes ago, EvilChaosKnight said:

I honestly could care less about Nullicancer stopping mah powers, that I can work around. But seriously.

Stop. Nullifying. My. Damn. Guns.

Remember atomos' neighbor-beams ignoring the shield? Good times...

Edited April 9, 2016 by IceColdHawk

[paxye]

as a wise grineer once said

 

DID YOU REALLY BELIEVE IT WOULD BE THIS EASY

—Councillor Vay Hek

[Troll_Logic]

On 4/8/2016 at 1:39 PM, (PS4)SupeBoss said:

The role of the nullifier doesn't bother me at all. I get it.
The nullifier was put there to stop power spam. It makes sense.

However.....
They packed way too many counter-plays into ONE enemy.

1. Cancel/prevent powers
2. Cancel/prevent ranged weapon damage
3. Cacel/prevent AOE damage (ugh!!!!)
4. Protect other nearby enemies that spawn within the bubble
5. Bubble continuously regenerates until the nullifier is killed

But it makes sense.

1) The nullifier bubble

2) It's a forcefield as well

3) The nullifier bubble

4) It's a forcefield

5) It's not a glass shield.  Of course it grows back.

 

The corpus are taking full advantage of the nullifier with forcefield.  If the tenno had such a thing, wouldn't we do the same?  Like a frost cast snowglobe while the Mag steals shields while the trinity spams blessing and ember sets the world on fire.  And everyone can drop large team restores.

Yeah, that's fair.