Warframe balance is terrible and DE is not doing enough.

[MadHatHacker]

Balance is an odd beast, and a damn hard one to chase. And I think you and many othets forget, the frequent bugs and general lack of polish are both attributable to the blistering pace at which content is developed for this game.

As someone who has been here since CBT, I know how frustrating it is to see things like reworks fall to the wayside, but DE has frequently admitted that while the game seems decidedly complete and cohesive, they do not consider it a finished product. Hence the "beta" tag. So while I disagree with the moniker, I understand the concept and realize that at some point, the game will be gone over with a fine-tooth comb and adjusted.

Until then, I'm just going to have to suffer all this new content that keeps being added each week. Bummer.

[IceColdHawk]

13 minutes ago, Inzyr said:

Ah, but you get those by ranking up ;)

Slots for weapons and frames. You mean loadout slots.

31 minutes ago, PsychedelicSnake said:

4. Chroma? Completely useless skills? The only ability of his that really needs work is Spectral Scream. Not sure why you are talking like more than one of his abilities isn't good.

I can surely and safely tell you that his 4 is also pretty much useless and only drains energy unnecessarily.

Edited March 30, 2016 by IceColdHawk

[VampirePirate]

12 minutes ago, Inzyr said:

Ah, but you get those by ranking up ;)

no, you get slots by paying plat.  You obviously have not been around for very long.

[IamTheSparta]

Of course the entire game need balancing

Not only the channeling spells cost, but the scaling of the enemys, if the enemys dont turn into god mod, they'll can nerf the god mod frames / naramon / perma CC

There is a loooooooooot of work, but it have to be done for a GG.

[(XBOX)freakytiki3]

can't really agree with OP's specific concerns in regards to Oberon and Nehza, feel like OP might be one of those players that only uses the "good frames".

What I can agree with is that there are certain aspects of the game that have been left in the past i.e. older weapons certain mods. That is probably to the fact that they throw so much new content out in sporadic bursts.

As to OP's idea to hire more teams I'd say that this game is most likely very expensive to produce as it is continuously under production, full time team dedicated to a specific game instead of moving on to the next new major release.

[Tzolkat]

We're all basically play-testing this game. Yes, some things are way out of balance. But at the same time other things are way more balanced than they once were. Does anyone remember when corpus were practically invincible save for the weak points on their knees (unless you had armor piercing mods)?

[Inzyr]

Just now, IamTheSparta said:

Stay on the main subject please: the balance, ad hominem is useless.

Indeed, and my apologies. Returning to my point, I think we'd all benefit greater from suggesting solutions, than simply complaining.

[PsychedelicSnake]

2 minutes ago, Inzyr said:

Indeed, and my apologies. Returning to my point, I think we'd all benefit greater from suggesting solutions, than simply complaining.

Pretty much. If the OP could provide solutions, we'd have an actual discussion going. Until then, it's going to stay a back and forth "I'm right- No I'm right" debate.

[VampirePirate]

7 minutes ago, Inzyr said:

That or slots could have meant loadout slots, which come as you rank up, or warframe/weapon slots which you buy. Everyone realized this minor miscommunication but you. Congratulations! You're unique. XD

No i realized it, which is why i corrected you.

6 minutes ago, IamTheSparta said:

Stay on the main subject please: the balance, ad hominem is useless.

Thanks.

[Sakatchi]

50 minutes ago, tripletriple said:

I understand DE is busy but this is ridiculous. They need to have a balancing team.

We have warframes that are released and not looked back at for years!

Why is Oberon in the sad state he is? Why is Ne zha such a terrible warframe and nothing has been done? Even Ne zha doesn't know where he belongs.

We have warframes like Inaros that got nerfed , when he is literally just a worse version of every tank in the game.

We have to wait months for multiple re works for warframes and some, like Chroma have completely useless and unusable skills. Spectral scream anyone?

Why does Chroma's pelt cost 10 energy per second when excalibur Exalted blade cost 2.5 at base? Why does Ne Zha have a higher base energy cost for his fire feet over valkyrs invincibility.  

Wukong was supposed to get a buff for his sub par melee range but it was just dropped. Rebbeca talked about it months ago.

The Saryn feed back thread had over 100 pages and nothing has been done.

Limbo is crying for a rework! 

What is going on DE? You need to do something about this situation. Please fill us in! 

Do not let the balance of the game suffer like this. Hire a team, whatever needs to be done, do it!

While I like buffs and stuff, you're an idiot. Chroma is one of the only frames in the game that can comfortably take on lvl 100s.

[carnaga]

43 minutes ago, tripletriple said:

Why is Ne zha such a terrible warframe and nothing has been done? Why is Ne zha such a terrible warframe and nothing has been done? Even Ne zha doesn't know where he belongs.

I thought Nezha was über awesome :O

Spoiler

lvl 100 infested

http://i.imgur.com/EpFXwVx.gifv

 

http://i.imgur.com/FexeHAM.gifv

 

[Clonmac]

I think the very fact that you could sit here with everyone debating the validity of some of the balance issues you've mentioned in the original post is the very reason why you don't see DE making huge sweeping balance changes. Things would be very messy if they did. I'm very glad they aren't making sweeping changes like that. I'd rather have them making slight tweaks here and there and rather than getting annoyed about that, you should probably just sit back and accept that fact.

PS. I don't think Limbo needs a rework, case in point.

[IamTheSparta]

4 minutes ago, Sakatchi said:

While I like buffs and stuff, you're an idiot. Chroma is one of the only frames in the game that can comfortably take on lvl 100s.

The first problem of warframe is the enemys, their damages are wayy to powerful and they always come in big crowd.

So we have to be invincible - CC all the map - invisible => NO FUN

Less enemys, better AI, Less damages OR dodgeable shots (no hitscan + aimbot ennemy) and less armor scaling per level, nerf all the perma CC, perma invincibility and invisibility = MORE NINJA ACTIONS AND STYLE

Or we can continue to faceroll with OP things.

My english is bad, i know, i hope i'm understandable.

Edited March 30, 2016 by IamTheSparta

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

50 minutes ago, Inzyr said:

Yeah, aren't you upset you paid all this money for a game where...oh wait...

 

1st

I am upset. I paid more than ps4 itself cost and they keep making the game worse. Exterminate for example is broken but it was great when I paid.

Some unbalanced stuff is easily understandable and excusable, but some, especially recently is just obscene. 

[(PSN)Pengu_Imperialus]

Balance is in constant flux, right now they are redoing several frames to bring them up to par.  This is where the balance work is being done right now.  One frame at a time.

 I love how much DE does interact with the community, but running up to them and demanding anything will get you nowhere.  It's rude, and it shows you pay very little attention to the changes that have occurred and are continuing to occur.  This line of conversation is unproductive as you have framed it.  You aren't making constructive suggestions, you are demanding changes with a vague target of "make them better".  That is a project, one of many, that is currently happening. 

 

If you have specific ideas in mind for balancing, take them to feedback with all the other suggestions.  That's what that section is for. 

[Foefaller]

I pretty sure Mag and Volt being the next two in line for reworks is because they, along with Excalibur (who's already had his rework) are the starter frames.

You can make the argument that there are other warframes that are in worse position than those two when it comes to having worthless and/or overpowered abilities and traits, but having the 3 frames that every single new player is going to play feel strong without being overwhelmingly so is extremely important to keeping players past that early period where they're just trying out a FtP game and get them to decide to commit time and (hopefully)money to it.

[mishmashmarsh]

52 minutes ago, Inzyr said:

Yeah, aren't you upset you paid all this money for a game where...oh wait...

 

1st

^ This comment

If nobody ever said anything negative about free to play games then nothing would get changed for the better.

[-Sora-]

Nezha has a pretty damn good place imho

 

Warding halo is essentially a beefed up version of rhino's iron skin with a few seconds of damage absorb. Which can really be handy later on should the player have a decent eye for triggering it.

Divine Spears is a near upgrade to radial javelin due to it having an infinite number of targets as well as more damage once you factor in the slam part of it. (2688 vs Excal at 2238 damage)

He mixes two together yet does so in a way where he is unique. He lacks the buffing ability of roar, as well as having only a self buff version of speed. This gives him a specific niche for himself.

While I do agree some frames need some love. Most fill specific niches do so well. The issue stems from most powers simply falling off later on in the game which is progression related. Not really frame balance imo.

[PsiWarp]

Well... there is a Conclave design and balance team working their magic every build or so. I don't see why we can't have a PVE balance team (leave the design to Scott though) churning out experimental changes and see what sticks and whatnot.

[Guest]

58 minutes ago, tripletriple said:

I understand DE is busy but this is ridiculous. They need to have a balancing team.

We have warframes that are released and not looked back at for years!

Why is Oberon in the sad state he is? Why is Ne zha such a terrible warframe and nothing has been done? Even Ne zha doesn't know where he belongs.

We have warframes like Inaros that got nerfed , when he is literally just a worse version of every tank in the game.

We have to wait months for multiple re works for warframes and some, like Chroma have completely useless and unusable skills. Spectral scream anyone?

Why does Chroma's pelt cost 10 energy per second when excalibur Exalted blade cost 2.5 at base? Why does Ne Zha have a higher base energy cost for his fire feet over valkyrs invincibility.  

Wukong was supposed to get a buff for his sub par melee range but it was just dropped. Rebbeca talked about it months ago.

The Saryn feed back thread had over 100 pages and nothing has been done.

Limbo is crying for a rework! 

What is going on DE? You need to do something about this situation. Please fill us in! 

Do not let the balance of the game suffer like this. Hire a team, whatever needs to be done, do it!

lets see how long you will see the light ^^)

im absolutely with you, BUT or as well as:

most of the players are young and wanna have sensations like how their frames and weapons look a like and almost most of the players love to dream and shoot themselves off with a internetgame from "whatever reality they are in"

this makes it easy for the gamingindustry, even DE

i love warframe, i buy lots of plat over the year, i support f2p players, right now only in the clan because things go out of hand at trading and more

and the moment we look at the details it looks like - beside a genius artwork - DE created warframe as a byproduct sideways beside their daily business like animation for whatever companies

im not shure, as well as warframes development looks like that way

and thats it, can be readed and accepted and changed by DE, or even not ... i stopped caring about this all because i dont wanna be driven nuts by some "circumstances" (^^

[IamTheSparta]

6 minutes ago, -Sora- said:

Nezha has a pretty damn good place imho

 

Warding halo is essentially a beefed up version of rhino's iron skin with a few seconds of damage absorb. Which can really be handy later on should the player have a decent eye for triggering it.

Divine Spears is a near upgrade to radial javelin due to it having an infinite number of targets as well as more damage once you factor in the slam part of it. (2688 vs Excal at 2238 damage)

He mixes two together yet does so in a way where he is unique. He lacks the buffing ability of roar, as well as having only a self buff version of speed. This gives him a specific niche for himself.

While I do agree some frames need some love. Most fill specific niches do so well. The issue stems from most powers simply falling off later on in the game which is progression related. Not really frame balance imo.

It doesnt come from the frames exactly, it come from the absurd enemys damages, number of enemys and wtf armor scaling

Edited March 30, 2016 by IamTheSparta

[Littlerift]

Claiming that Nezha and Saryn are both bad, oh deary me.

 

Also, game balance isn't as easy as people seem to think it is: people have been arguing about balance since the invention of chess, and even then nobody can quite agree if Whites having the initiative is OP or UP.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Littlerift

[-Sora-]

Sort of the point i was attempting to make, yeah. 

 

The issue is that scaling is out of whack and a majority of frames focus on pure DPS which ends up leading to threads such as this. Those who can CC typically are preferred over others due to it not falling off as much as pure damage abilities.

 

If scaling gets sorted out then threads like this might be reduced in number. 

[Hemmo67]

2 words

free play

 

[Misgenesis]

DE seems to be of the ''if its not broken, its not a priority'' sort.

Its what it is unfortunately.