Petition to make Natural Talent an Exilus mod.

[Lijka]

Natural Talent is a utility mod, like Handspring and Rush, or at least I find it so. My point is, that it is not as widely used as Continuity or Streamline for example. Some frames benefit greatly from it while it is completely useless for most. Personally I use it on Nezha, Oberon and Nekros. These frames aren't exactly considered top tier, therefore I don't think turning NT into Exilus mod would influence gameplay in any major way while it would help the frames (and players) that use them in a small way.

 

[ShortCat]

We are asking for this since the release of Exilus.

[Fifield]

Natural Talent would then just become the mandatory Exilus mod and would be power creep.

Personally, I'd like to see Speed Holster made into an Exilus non-aura mod.  Plus an overall boost to weapon swapping speed.

[Fifield]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Ozone1249953 said:

1. No dude. Not all frames need natural talent. For example, Ash has almost no cast times and that's just one frame

Feel free to name 15 others.  And even then, it'll be mandatory on the rest.

[S0V3REiGN]

Natural Talent is hardly mandatory. Only a handful of them really want it, most others have better uses for that slot.

 

Edit, infact I will name you the ones that will really make use of it: Nekros, Limbo, Nezha, Hydroid, Equinox. You know, all the really OP warframes. >_>

Edited April 4, 2016 by S0V3REiGN

[Lijka]

14 minutes ago, Fifield said:

Feel free to name 15 others.  And even then, it'll be mandatory on the rest.

I honestly don't see that happening. Majority of the frames do not benefit from NT or benefit from it marginally or only in very specific builds, like Loki on Radial Disarm build. I don't think most of Loki players run around with NT in their day to day builds.

Anyway, had NT been so important as you suggest it is it would already be mandatory.

[Fifield]

1 minute ago, Lijka said:

I honestly don't see that happening. Majority of the frames do not benefit from NT or benefit from it marginally or only in very specific builds, like Loki on Radial Disarm build. I don't think most of Loki players run around with NT in their day to day builds.

Anyway, had NT been so important as you suggest it is it would already be mandatory.

Natural Talent is currently competing with last slot mods like Streamline and Intensify.  That's why it doesn't get a look in.

As an Exilus mod it would be competing with Handspring and Mobilize and so would be ubiquitous except where knockdown is a problem.

Also, you might want to look up the dozen other threads where this idea was shot down.

[BlackCoMerc]

Exilus status must be carefully extended. Mobilize, Rush and Handspring do not increase a frame's power level at all, but do offer increased mobility. Hence they are utility only mods and are perfect for Exilus status.

Natural Talent is...tougher. On one hand, it absolutely does not increase power levels of frames. On the other hand, some abilities are very powerful, and are balanced by long casting times during which frames are vulnerable.

Nonetheless, I support Natural Talent as an Exilus mod. It is pure Utility. And even in that slot frames must sacrifice speed or recovery or airborne agility to use it. Losing one sort of utility for another is reasonable; losing a slot wherein you could increase power or defense is not.

[Lijka]

26 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Exilus status must be carefully extended. Mobilize, Rush and Handspring do not increase a frame's power level at all, but do offer increased mobility. Hence they are utility only mods and are perfect for Exilus status.

Natural Talent is...tougher. On one hand, it absolutely does not increase power levels of frames. On the other hand, some abilities are very powerful, and are balanced by long casting times during which frames are vulnerable.

Nonetheless, I support Natural Talent as an Exilus mod. It is pure Utility. And even in that slot frames must sacrifice speed or recovery or airborne agility to use it. Losing one sort of utility for another is reasonable; losing a slot wherein you could increase power or defense is not.

Thank you for explaining it better than I could.

@Fifield: I am sorry, but I just cannot agree with you as to the importance of this mod. You would be right if majority of the frames needed and used this mod, but as the case is, it is a minority.

[LazyKnight]

1 hour ago, Fifield said:

Feel free to name 15 others.  And even then, it'll be mandatory on the rest.

I can name a few that do not care about it, as at best it would provide a small marginal gains but hardly anything measurable. It's a waste of a slot for them as they already have fast cast times or have power drift as a more desirable exilus.

Ash

Atlas

Chroma,

Frost <---can use a few things as a valid option.

Inaros

Loki, doesn't need it or care what's in that slot.

Mesa

Rhino

I am sure there are others, but the only warframes that it would be mandatory use for natural talent in that slot would be Nekros. 

 

Edited April 3, 2016 by LazyKnight

[Fifield]

56 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Natural Talent is...tougher. On one hand, it absolutely does not increase power levels of frames. On the other hand, some abilities are very powerful, and are balanced by long casting times during which frames are vulnerable.

In other words it does make frames more powerful and is not just quality of life.

It absolutely should not be made an Exilus mod because all Exilus mods should be equally viable.

And it would be powercreep.

Sorry Lijka but if you ignore my counterargument showing yours to be illogical, you don't have the right to disagree in a public forum.

LazyKnight: Frost, Rhino, Loki and Mesa all have slow casting main abilities.  As does Inaros but I'm not sure NT helps: 

 

[phoenix1992]

Only natural talent?
Almost all "utility" mods should be pushed to exilius. Not like I would be forced to remove "Rush" (me love moving fast), from there but it is good solution for many players. Especially since "Drift" mods were created - they have close to nothing with parkour, and we use them for extra juice.

[AbaliskInfinite]

4 hours ago, Fifield said:

Natural Talent would then just become the mandatory Exilus mod and would be power creep.

Personally, I'd like to see Speed Holster made into an Exilus non-aura mod.  Plus an overall boost to weapon swapping speed.

Natural Talent is not a mandatory mod though, many frames are fine without it and benefit more from drift mods.

[Fifield]

1 minute ago, AbaliskInfinite said:

Natural Talent is not a mandatory mod though, many frames are fine without it and benefit more from drift mods.

April Fools was 2 days ago.

[BlackCoMerc]

36 minutes ago, Fifield said:

In other words it does make frames more powerful and is not just quality of life.

It absolutely should not be made an Exilus mod because all Exilus mods should be equally viable.

And it would be powercreep.

Sorry Lijka but if you ignore my counterargument showing yours to be illogical, you don't have the right to disagree in a public forum.

LazyKnight: Frost, Rhino, Loki and Mesa all have slow casting main abilities.  As does Inaros but I'm not sure NT helps: 

 

If Talent were an Exilus mod, it would not automatically be better than any other mod. I can see how you would think so, but I disagree.

My Saryn will never run it over Rush. Same goes for Frost. They need movement speed more than casting speed. At least to me. 

Likewise, I want Ivarra to have longer glide times. It knockdown recovery. Casting speed she doesn't need. 

Natural Talent is not automatically a best in class as an Exilus mod.

[Misgenesis]

It would be my go to exilus mod. Squeezing every second out of my cast times is way better than measly 15% increase in stats or mobility. Thus im against it.

[LazyKnight]

46 minutes ago, Fifield said:

LazyKnight: Frost, Rhino, Loki and Mesa all have slow casting main abilities.  As does Inaros but I'm not sure NT helps:

No they do not. If you think natural talent helps, it's at most a half second in gains of cast time for any of them. Do you understand the concept of opportunity cost? 

Mesa has nothing considered slow: Her '1' is  a .5 second cast time. Her '2' and '3' are I think .5 or .75. Her 4 takes less than 1 second, wow so slow better equip that natural talent because it only changes the drawing speed by 50%. It's objectively a 100% waste of a slot on her.

Your statement about Loki makes me think you're a troll. His '4' has a .9 second cast time even with natural talent that only makes it .6 and it still has a fixed CD of .9 seconds. 

Rhino's stop: The only part of it that is affected by natural talent is how long it takes him to stop his foot down and starts the timer, the damage is still on the seeking propagation effect and that's engine time and not affected.

Frost's '4' is the only one i would say does anything, but it's still not required as the NPCs are frozen (max power strength is a better idea). 

 

Inaros: Using any mods for his powers is pointless anyway.

'1' is super fast .5 seconds, using natural talent, makes it faster, but i doubt 90% of people playing with him could tell if it was equipped or not because the blind applies quick enough as default.

His 2 cast time is affected by natural talent but only the 1 second start of it not the recovery delay of 2 seconds.

His '3' who cares, not even sure it does anything past mercury, but it's not worth slotting any mods period for his '3'.

His '4' the only part that it effected is the cast animation, but it still not worth modding.

Inaros has problems with his skills not scaling enough to bother with.

Edited April 3, 2016 by LazyKnight

[Sloan441]

Before the drift mods, I would have been very dubious about NT being an exilus mod.

Now that we do have drift mods--which have some strong buffs to a warframe's capability--I can see having it as such.

And, no, not all would use it. There are a few 'frames I have that would, but most would not. Mostly because they benefit more from the assorted drift mods.

[Fifield]

30 minutes ago, LazyKnight said:

It's objectively a 100% waste of a slot on her.

If you think Mesa being able to ult in half the time is 100% useless, then I don't think you're qualified to comment.  Particularly vs a mod that's going to make you get to the exit 2s faster at best -- where you'll still have to wait for the rest of the team.

Also, you objectively aren't objective.

Lastly, I repeat this has come up a dozen times before and been shot down in every single thread.  If DE were going to do it, they'd have done it.  You're wasting your time here.  Peace & bye.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Fifield

[LazyKnight]

21 hours ago, Fifield said:

If you think Mesa being able to ult in half the time is 100% useless, then I don't think you're qualified to comment.  Particularly vs a mod that's going to make you get to the exit 2s faster at best -- where you'll still have to wait for the rest of the team.

Also, you objectively aren't objective.

Lastly, I repeat this has come up a dozen times before and been shot down in every single thread.  If DE were going to do it, they'd have done it.  You're wasting your time here.  Peace & bye.

Amusing, truly. It's not going to beat 15% power strength drift mod. 

It's not half the time, It's 1/1.5=.66 1-.66=.34. If you put that it DPS term it's only going to make the first shot hit .34 second faster but it will do less dps. If you have peace maker active for more than one shot it was an inferior option using power drift (this is hard math, deal with it). This is not Excalibur's radial javelin that does damage every interval and where having natural talent will always be useful because the interval of not doing damage is damage lost.

I have read many of your post and I have not been impressed with any of them. I would make the same claim about you not being qualified to post.

 

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

8 hours ago, Fifield said:

Feel free to name 15 others.  And even then, it'll be mandatory on the rest.

I would still run handspring over natural talent on nekros. Dude has not the time or armor to be laying on the ground surrounded by enemies. For me, handspring is a requirement on all low survivability frames, because of knock down spams, but not every frames need a to worry. Is this bad?. Natural talent would be "required" because of slow casting times on certain frames, but not every frame needs to worry

[EvilChaosKnight]

8 hours ago, Fifield said:

Feel free to name 15 others.  And even then, it'll be mandatory on the rest.

Ash, Atlas, Banshee, Chroma, Ember, Excalibro, Frost, Inaros, Ivara, Loki, Mag (who needs Crush spam anyway?), Mesa, Nova, Nyx, Rhino, Saryn, Valkyr, Vauban, Volt, Wukong, Zephyr.

That leaves 7/29 frames where Natural Talent is even remotely worth it. I leveled them all, I know how they work. Ok, tbh even my Equinox doesn't use it but I guess (s)he could.

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

11 hours ago, (PS4)Ozone1249953 said:

1. No dude. Not all frames need natural talent. For example, Ash has almost no cast times and that's just one frame

2. That could work

Ash built for perma invisibility stealth needs it. Else enemies will be alerted during cast time.

And no. Natural talent should not be an exilus mod. Just like steel fibre shouldn't. Even though both are mandatory or good only on some frames. 

[Hellmaker2004]

There is already a Exilus mod that increases casting speed

 

Speed Drift

 

One can assume that is the "balanced" and fair competitor with the other exilus mods.

[LazyKnight]

51 minutes ago, (PS4)Lord_Gremlin said:

Ash built for perma invisibility stealth needs it. Else enemies will be alerted during cast time.

And no. Natural talent should not be an exilus mod. Just like steel fibre shouldn't. Even though both are mandatory or good only on some frames. 

I can see the slippery slope being an issue with exilus ( has DE ever really defined it?) and a few mods come to mind that would be next on the list that people would want: Armored agility (it had a topic about it), Anti-Toxin, Diamond skin, Flame repellent, Lighting rod, Rapid Reliance and Insulation.

It almost seems to me that DE could take a look at some of these mods that people want and have no room for and transplant them into the various focus families as passives.

Edited April 4, 2016 by LazyKnight