Next Prime Frame Confirmed! Vauban Prime!

[funtimehippie]

what about something like ivaras first where you can change it to several abilites i think it would give vauban more flexibility 

[Inmemoratus]

It looks like we're getting Fragor Prime next, but I question what the point is? It looks cool but there are already a few hammers. What will be special about this? It looks like the same situation as the Nikana Prime. A stats upgrade but nothing new.

[TylerFreeman]

that's always been the focal point about primes.

they're all stat upgrades compared the originals

[IceColdHawk]

6 minutes ago, Inmemoratus said:

It looks like we're getting Fragor Prime next, but I question what the point is? It looks cool but there are already a few hammers. What will be special about this? It looks like the same situation as the Nikana Prime. A stats upgrade but nothing new.

I guess akstiletto prime will also be pointless and nothing more than a stats upgrade then right? What's the point of every prime weapon then?

Fact is, fragor is long overdue and we have no prime hammers as of yet so this IS actually special.

Edited April 26, 2016 by IceColdHawk

[rawr1254]

Fragor Prime: 20m slam :P

[rapt0rman]

Not sure what you're expecting... prime items are never revolutionary.

[Inmemoratus]

4 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

I guess akstiletto prime will also be pointless and nothing more than a stats upgrade then right? What's the point of every prime weapon then?

Fact is, fragor is long overdue and we have no prime hammers as of yet so this IS actually special.

We have Jat Kittag which is stronger than most prime weapons anyway, and it uses the same stances.

Akstilleto Prime is slightly more interesting because it plays differently than other sidearms due to its short reload.

[IceColdHawk]

Just now, Inmemoratus said:

We have Jat Kittag which is stronger than most prime weapons anyway, and it uses the same stances.

Hehe. May i introduce you to the future best hammer: Fragor Prime. Prepare your body for it.

Just now, Inmemoratus said:

Akstilleto Prime is slightly more interesting because it plays differently than other sidearms due to its short reload

We'll see. I'm wondering if they outclass aksomati.

[Inmemoratus]

1 minute ago, IceColdHawk said:

Hehe. May i introduce you to the future best hammer: Fragor Prime. Prepare your body for it.

And this is why I think it's the same as when they added Nikana Prime.

 

1 minute ago, IceColdHawk said:

We'll see. I'm wondering if they outclass aksomati.

They aren't really comparable. Aksomati has longer reload, bigger mag, and spool-up. All these features make it play differently from the Akstilleto. You might argue that 1.4 reload isn't much different from 1.1, but it really matters for people who find reload times annoying. Also, it wouldn't be surprising if the Prime version has an even shorter reload to emphasize the utility of the weapon.

[Tesseract7777]

Just now, Inmemoratus said:

And this is why I think it's the same as when they added Nikana Prime.

 

They aren't really comparable. Aksomati has longer reload, bigger mag, and spool-up. All these features make it play differently from the Akstilleto. You might argue that 1.4 reload isn't much different from 1.1, but it really matters for people who find reload times annoying. Also, it wouldn't be surprising if the Prime version has an even shorter reload to emphasize the utility of the weapon.

 

Isn't it a little early to decide if they aren't comparable? We really don't have a clue of the stats. 

[IceColdHawk]

Just now, Inmemoratus said:

They aren't really comparable. Aksomati has longer reload, bigger mag, and spool-up. All these features make it play differently from the Akstilleto. You might argue that 1.4 reload isn't much different from 1.1, but it really matters for people who find reload times annoying. Also, it wouldn't be surprising if the Prime version has an even shorter reload to emphasize the utility of the weapon.

The thing is, aksomati is so much better (aside from the accuracy) than akstiletto that i think that akstiletto prime will be either MR fodder or just better than aksomati. 

[Inmemoratus]

1 minute ago, Tesseract7777 said:

 

Isn't it a little early to decide if they aren't comparable? We really don't have a clue of the stats. 

Primes are better versions of the non-prime version. It's not like they're going to add a huge mag or spool-up to the Akstilleto Prime. It's going to be like the Akstilleto. The defining features are short reload, hitscan, small mag.

[Inmemoratus]

1 minute ago, IceColdHawk said:

The thing is, aksomati is so much better (aside from the accuracy) than akstiletto that i think that akstiletto prime will be either MR fodder or just better than aksomati. 

That's like saying Soma Prime is better than Boltor. First of all, you're comparing a prime to a non-prime, and second of all you're comparing weapons with totally different utility.

[IceColdHawk]

Just now, Inmemoratus said:

That's like saying Soma Prime is better than Boltor. First of all, you're comparing a prime to a non-prime, and second of all you're comparing weapons with totally different utility.

Soma Prime is better though. Better damage potential, hitscan, more ammo. Both assault rifles and easily comparable.

Dragon Nikana is also non-prime and can be compared to nikana prime which is just better in every way and supposed to be the prime version of the standard nikana.

[Tesseract7777]

Just now, Inmemoratus said:

Primes are better versions of the non-prime version. It's not like they're going to add a huge mag or spool-up to the Akstilleto Prime. It's going to be like the Akstilleto. The defining features are short reload, hitscan, small mag.

 

Why wouldn't we compare them though? Aksomati is made from Akstilleto and they are pretty similar in many ways. Yes, they have differences and you listed some of them... but are you against them being compared? Because people are going to be doing so a lot, and even more when the stats arrive. I guarantee you everyone will be comparing them to Aksomati and if they don't match up they will be labeled MR fodder. 

[Inmemoratus]

4 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

Soma Prime is better though. Better damage potential, hitscan, more ammo. Both assault rifles and easily comparable.

Dragon Nikana is also non-prime and can be compared to nikana prime which is just better in every way and supposed to be the prime version of the standard nikana.

You are totally ignoring the spool-up on the Soma Prime. That is a huge utility difference between it and the Boltors. Of course it's better than standard Boltor, but that's a regular market weapon compared to a prime. Boltor Prime is viable alongside Soma Prime because it doesn't have the spoolup drawback, it's more ammo efficient, and has a different damage type.

It's the same thing. You're acting like the Aksomati and the Akstilleto have the same mechanics/utility, but they don't. They work totally differently. It's not fair to compare the Aksomati Prime to the non-prime Akstilleto. The difference in damage output is huge due to the fact that the Akstilleto is an old, non-prime weapon that has been left behind by power creep. So the utility differences are totally overshadowed by that. Akstilleto Prime will be strong enough that the utility differences actually matter and the weapons will be viable side-by-side.

[IceColdHawk]

Just now, Inmemoratus said:

It's not fair to compare the Aksomati Prime to the non-prime Akstilleto

Akstiletto Prime to the non-prime Aksomati*

Also:

14 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I guarantee you everyone will be comparing them to Aksomati and if they don't match up they will be labeled MR fodder.

Yep.

And with that said, we will see. Nothing is set in stone yet.

[(PSN)abb12355]

17 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

 

Why wouldn't we compare them though? Aksomati is made from Akstilleto and they are pretty similar in many ways. Yes, they have differences and you listed some of them... but are you against them being compared? Because people are going to be doing so a lot, and even more when the stats arrive. I guarantee you everyone will be comparing them to Aksomati and if they don't match up they will be labeled MR fodder. 

The akstiletto aren't really Mr Fodder. With a few Forma, You can make a Decent Crit Build, and An Amazing Status. Hybrid Build which can Strip armor while doing damage, The Max I've seen my akstiletto hit on a Bodyshot was 1000- 1200. While a Optimized aksomati Does 1800, that's not much different when you have so much Status to add to that.

Plus The akstiletto are years more ammo efficient and don't have the spoolup. 

Edited April 27, 2016 by (PS4)abb12355

[(XBOX)DarkAssassin49]

we needed a new hammer and all weapons r good if u r good@modding

[Inmemoratus]

Just now, (XB1)DarkAssassin49 said:

we needed a new hammer and all weapons r good if u r good@modding

Why do we need a new hammer?

[(XBOX)DarkAssassin49]

because they r mostly ignored, its something that doesnt annoy any1+adds 2 wf

 

[Inmemoratus]

29 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I guarantee you everyone will be comparing them to Aksomati and if they don't match up they will be labeled MR fodder. 

There are way too many people who fixate on paper DPS. The utility differences are huge and it's very difficult to figure out what the difference in actual damage (or even more important, how many dudes it kills) will be in practice. It's frustrating to see how popular it is to fixate on paper DPS.

Personally I cannot stand spool-up, so if the damage of the akstilleto prime is increased to the point where it feels strong I'll use it. That decision will have nothing to do with comparing it to the aksomati. That thing is not on the table for me due to utility reasons, while the akstilleto prime is actually really appealing to me because I also hate reload times.

Edited April 27, 2016 by Inmemoratus

[(PSN)abb12355]

4 minutes ago, Inmemoratus said:

There are way too many people who fixate on paper DPS. The utility differences are huge and it's very difficult to figure out what the difference in actual damage (or even more important, how many dudes it kills) will be in practice. It's frustrating to see how popular it is to fixate on paper DPS.

Personally I cannot stand spool-up, so if the damage of the akstilleto prime is increased to the point where it feels strong I'll use it. That decision will have nothing to do with comparing it to the aksomati. That thing is not on the table for me due to utility reasons, while the akstilleto prime is actually really appealing to me because I also hate reload times.

I agree, Idk but people in the community usually prefer Crit over Status, which confuses me. I mean People will chose a Full on critical build Over A Hybrid Build consisting of Critical and Status.

Other then That, what do you think the Akstiletto Prime stats will be?

Here's my opinion on the what should be buffed.

Base damage 18-30. (it would be A balanced Weapon, 10 impact, 10 puncture, 10 slash)

Increases Critical Chance and Multiplier

Critical Chance would be Increased to 20% and the Multiplier to 2X critical multiplier.

Increased Status Chance from 15% to 25%.

And Lastly, a Reload buff from 1.1 to 0.5

 

[IronWolfKnight]

1 hour ago, (PS4)abb12355 said:

I agree, Idk but people in the community usually prefer Crit over Status, which confuses me. I mean People will chose a Full on critical build Over A Hybrid Build consisting of Critical and Status.

The main reasons why people prefer Crit builds over Status has to do with the overall damage system and level scaling as a whole and the fact that Status from weapons are pretty much outclassed by Status from abilities.

All meta-game builds that consists of four players that are going up against something like level 100 Grineer or Corrupted will have four Corrosive Projections (Three if the players with Corrosive Projection have Coaction Drift equipped) which as we all know removes armour completely so the best elemental combos on their weapons will always be Viral & Fire and a Crit build will always be able to deal the optimal amounts of damage to enemies in those factions. So overall, most meta game builds will be geared towards dealing the optimal amount of damage they can do and trying to mod for Status is simply foolish. Not to mention the damage from Status effects pales in comparison to Crit.

As for my second point, since DE hasn't implemented anything that makes Status significantly more useful on weapons (something like multi-proccing when you mod any weapon to have 100% Status), there's little difference between using Status from weapons and using Status from abilities and because of that, you will have a better time inflicting Status procs from abilities than inflicting Status procs from weapons. For example, which do you think is going to inflict Viral procs more effectively and more efficiently? A weapon modded with Viral or a Saryn using Spore? Saryn is going to be overall better at inflicting Viral procs than a weapon that inflicts Viral procs.

These are the main reasons why people have a negative view on Status builds and are pretty much the main reasons why Rob from A Gay Guy Plays constantly makes jokes in his videos about how pointless and bad Status chance is if a weapon he's reviewing has a noticeable amount of Status chance. Status as a whole needs to be the next thing to get a rework right after DE releases Damage 3.0 and they need to put it in a state where Status damage becomes viable, certain weapons have a way to inflict multiple Status procs at once, the most useful Status mods are not just the elemental damage + Status mods and every Status effect except for Radiation and Viral gains a buff (Radiation and Viral are the only Status effects that are strong enough) otherwise most people will always ignore Status chance on weapons.

Edited April 27, 2016 by IronWolfKnight

[NoggDog117]

I saw this part of the Vauban Prime teaser and my mind immediately went to screencapping it, just thought it belonged here.