Rathuum: The Meta Is Real

[UnderFiend]

I like how Rathuum has evolved in a matter of days to Mirages with clones running around aimlessly firing their synoid simulor and Ashes bladestorming the living hek out of everything on the map. I'm kind of surprised I've not gotten in a team where the other players were only Mirages and Ashes... well, I might have; there was that one round 3 match that lasted less than five minutes...

It's not a complaint, just an observation and I find it mildly amusing. Once I watched a Valkyr go to 150 then just stop after my Inaros was one-shot immediately upon starting the Endurance run. The other teammates, save the Valkyr, didn't fair much better. My partner was watching this and we both laughed at how ridiculous the arena events are, but I had to ask, "Is this intentional?"

In Rathuum, it's stated repeatedly that the "accused" never get a fair fight. Between the modifiers and "handicaps" the accused are given, it seems like playing unfairly is the only response. I don't see anything wrong with maximizing time spent or optimizing for success, but part of me feels like DE's intent for this event was to see how far the community could and would go, especially in the Endless Endurance mission, and what tactics they'd employ.

This event reminds me of that bug a last year where one Interception event accidentally spawned level 100+ Grineer on a melee-only Endurance run challenge. At first, people complained, and then the community saw it as an entertaining challenge. It wasn't long before the "bug" was implemented as an intended modifier for with a reward that was little more than bragging rights. It also didn't take the player base very long to figure out how to beat that challenge with ease.

There is fun, for some, in manipulating the game mechanics to their favor if not putting practice to frames and weapons that have been modified to over power high-level enemies. Like with the Interception I mentioned from last year, there's little point to going to 25+ in the Rathuum Endless event, but if you can, why not? The only problem I see with the event is that it highlights the issues of player power-creep and enemy scaling that some would say is becoming more problematic. If Rathuum really was meant to be a challenge for highly skilled, well-geared players, but it doesn't actually take that much skill nor great gear to excel in the event, I have to wonder if DE is using this as a learning experiment, and what will come of future events based on ...well, the current Rathuum leaderboards alone.

[Hayabusa97]

It is possible this event is being used to tone down the more blatantly broken meta tools (or just fix the jank enemy scaling)

[(PSN)jFresh215]

We also saw this issue with the eyes of blight event. Glitches aren't fixed fast enough and the damages to the leader boards are done rather quickly. 

[VKhaun]

Meh. Sometimes it's okay to let people feel extra powerful. I don't really like when the core game is made silly with permanent invincibility or what have you, and I think I'm for more nerfs than most but for something like this event where you're supposed to be thrashing the executioners endlessly in the name of your syndicate I don't really mind it.

[DaftMeat]

My first attempt at Endless Rathuum was with a Trinity. I was thinking "I have Quick Thinking, I have Rage, I can maximize Duration and Efficiency, with still room for Power and Range. I can keep my team full on energy and health while keeping myself safe with Link". Then I died almost immediately because of lack of energy. I ended up aborting because I didn't want to be carried while lying dead for 5 minutes or more. I did the rest of my runs with a Valkyr, focusing on myself and not teamwork.

It's kind of hard to build a challenging event without gearing it towards tank frames...

[Xgomme]

At least the Rathuum made people play Limbo again, I was stunned to see a Limbo in pub defense <3

[EmptyDevil]

It is fun but does highlight some pretty bad problems. Some things i'd do would be:

- Nerf and rebalance obviously broken powers/tactics that have nearly zero counterplay(map wide blinds through walls, extended invulnerability, and etc).

- Cap enemy armor scaling at a reasonable place but allow health and other things to scale at a different rate.

- Implement a shield gate for players, so there is a chance to survive heavy damage to gtfo or devise a counter in that second.

 

[motorfirebox]

I like Warframe, and I even enjoyed Rathuum (soloed up to 130 or so with Ivara), but this event really highlights the fact this game is an endless cycle of players using cheese to deal with higher enemy stats, leading to even higher stats to provide more 'challenge', leading to further cheesing. DE focuses too much on new stuff—new frames, new weapons, new game modes—and not enough on gameplay interactions.

[UnderFiend]

28 minutes ago, DaftMeat said:

My first attempt at Endless Rathuum was with a Trinity. I was thinking "I have Quick Thinking, I have Rage, I can maximize Duration and Efficiency, with still room for Power and Range. I can keep my team full on energy and health while keeping myself safe with Link". Then I died almost immediately because of lack of energy. I ended up aborting because I didn't want to be carried while lying dead for 5 minutes or more. I did the rest of my runs with a Valkyr, focusing on myself and not teamwork.

It's kind of hard to build a challenging event without gearing it towards tank frames...

Yea, and this I find the worst point of the event; support frames can't really help much. I've seen a few good Trinity builds last more than a wave or three, but not much. Even at that, with the team trying to kill everything in a nanosecond, the "support" doesn't go far or goes unnoticed. I was happy to see a Banshee using dread once, however.

At this point, I've been trying different setups and frames to see what I can do to enemies... but it's a little less rewarding when I'm focusing on CC and at the end of the mission, it looks like I did nothing to contribute. I really hope at some point DE puts in challenge rewards (like "Pistol Master") for providing support to the team.

18 minutes ago, Lobotomy said:

Matter of days? Who were you even playing with initially? MR5's? From what I saw others doing and of what I personally did, people have been using their optimal setups from the very start. It's just how people at the end-game do things. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Ok, well, not everyone plays to the meta, nor do they play with min-maxers at every chance. I play for fun with my clan and partner, and we typically like to explore the content, not find the best way to rush through it the moment it's launched.

[Genitive]

34 minutes ago, EmptyDevil said:

It is fun but does highlight some pretty bad problems. Some things i'd do would be:

- Nerf and rebalance obviously broken powers/tactics that have nearly zero counterplay(map wide blinds through walls, extended invulnerability, and etc).

- Cap enemy armor scaling at a reasonable place but allow health and other things to scale at a different rate.

- Implement a shield gate for players, so there is a chance to survive heavy damage to gtfo or devise a counter in that second.

 

This Tenno knows what's up.

[Hayabusa97]

9 minutes ago, Genitive said:

This Tenno knows what's up.

Yeah, if I wanted to deal with enemies that can walk off taking a bunch of Bladed Rounds Red Crits to the head by a Paris Prime (enhanced with Toxin Damage), I'd play Borderlands 2 because at least in that game, your health, shields, weapons, and abilities scale (depends on loot drops).

[Jaruis]

I shouldn't be confined into using valkyr to prevent myself from getting one -shotted, or any tanky frame in general. Th e only exceptions I could think of is excal, mirage, and maybe limbo, but they're energy dependent before depriving into being another killable frame. Using my best tools =/= confining into playing limited playstyles.

[Evanescent]

What irks me is not some frames being powerful, but content being designed around them resulting in other not so cheesy frames getting crushed into the ground.

[Rakosta_Kai]

Overall, I like it.

It's definitely a work in progress and isn't rewarding enough, but with tuning could turn into something really fun.

[SilentCynic]

1 hour ago, Evanescent said:

What irks me is not some frames being powerful, but content being designed around them resulting in other not so cheesy frames getting crushed into the ground.

This is my main gripe as well. The argument of "Well then just don't cheese it" falls flat when you realize that the game then becomes balanced around these tactics, influencing everyone, whether you play a certain way or not.

I don't have a problem with players being powerful (It's kind of the point of Warframe to be powerful), but it has a negative impact on the frames that don't fit into the meta of the day.

[TARINunit9]

5 hours ago, DaftMeat said:

My first attempt at Endless Rathuum was with a Trinity. I was thinking "I have Quick Thinking, I have Rage, I can maximize Duration and Efficiency, with still room for Power and Range. I can keep my team full on energy and health while keeping myself safe with Link". Then I died almost immediately because of lack of energy. I ended up aborting because I didn't want to be carried while lying dead for 5 minutes or more. I did the rest of my runs with a Valkyr, focusing on myself and not teamwork.

It's kind of hard to build a challenging event without gearing it towards tank frames...

5 hours ago, UnderFiend said:

Yea, and this I find the worst point of the event; support frames can't really help much. I've seen a few good Trinity builds last more than a wave or three, but not much. Even at that, with the team trying to kill everything in a nanosecond, the "support" doesn't go far or goes unnoticed. I was happy to see a Banshee using dread once, however.

If a Trinity can survive long enough to get up to max energy, she can actually go at least 50 kills easy. The hard part is getting that first bit of energy

[elele]

Did a 100kill solo run without using cheese valkyr Loki ash CL dagger naramon. It was doable. Challenging and fun. 

there will always be boring cheese meta but you can always set some personal goals such as not using x and y cheese meta, for fun. After all this game is almost like a sandbox to experiment different play styles. 

[UnderFiend]

Elele, mind posting a screen shot and your build? I'd love to learn of new and interesting methods. :)

[----Dante----]

i hope this event was just disguise to collect data and we ill see massive wave of nerfs for broken frames soon.

[-dicht.Amducias-]

On 5/5/2016 at 2:46 AM, EmptyDevil said:

It is fun but does highlight some pretty bad problems. Some things i'd do would be:

- map wide blinds through walls

 

Well the executioners are immune to mirages prism

[kubbi]

I need points in order to fight Kela for the new mods. I'm not going to bother with casual builds. DE keeps giving us grind goals and I will use the quikest and most efficient way to archieve those goals.

Btw the 50 point cost to fight Kela is ridiculous.

[Kinjeto]

On 05/05/2016 at 10:22 AM, UnderFiend said:

There is fun, for some, in manipulating the game mechanics to their favor if not putting practice to frames and weapons that have been modified to over power high-level enemies. Like with the Interception I mentioned from last year, there's little point to going to 25+ in the Rathuum Endless event, but if you can, why not? The only problem I see with the event is that it highlights the issues of player power-creep and enemy scaling that some would say is becoming more problematic. If Rathuum really was meant to be a challenge for highly skilled, well-geared players, but it doesn't actually take that much skill nor great gear to excel in the event, I have to wonder if DE is using this as a learning experiment, and what will come of future events based on ...well, the current Rathuum leaderboards alone.
 

The only problem I see at the moment (kind of). Is players refusing to learn the constraints and intricacies of the mechanics of each frame and how they interact with each other. This is the only problem, I can see or observe so far.

It's okay to have a main frame, but learning how the other frames work is fairly important. Especially in a raid environment. Being a very competent raider, myself, I have to learn a number of different roles (See: Playing different Warframes) from playing Trinity, to playing Mirage, to playing Nova. In some cases playing Vauban or Nyx.

As people (should I say ignorant community members) want one frame nerf-ed and a lot of the time can't really give valid or justified reasons, why that frame should be nerfed, it just opens up differing options for people who are competent and moderately knowledgeable about the varying configurations in mod systems for Warframes.and in some cases weapons.

A lot of the time members of this community can't really differentiate the difference between mechanic and glitch. This is very disappointing as a long-time Warframe player as well.

I've also thought/wondered, for a while, about whether events and tactical alerts were/are meant and aimed broadside as propositions towards the player's learning experience.

In all honesty. If you want to go to high waves in a game based on horde mode. Then the power creep is fine. The numbers get bigger and the risk gets bigger. So therefore I don't see a problem in our game because as much as I hate to say this Warframe is about piloting/commanding a powerful device and feeling powerful.
 

Edited May 7, 2016 by Kinjeto

[Kinjeto]

12 hours ago, -dicht.Amducias- said:

Well the executioners are immune to mirages prism

Here Here.

[fatpig84]

Honestly the flood of ez mode frames was just a natural answer to the need to farm judgement points. 
Kela did not need the point gate at all.

A easily built Ash can drop at least 4 executioners in a single bladestorm.
A HOM Mirage with explosives drops em fast as well and pretty much turn the summons of the executioner's worthless.

Remember people will just use the fastest way to cheese through the farming parts. 
So that they can get to the "main event" faster.

Edited May 7, 2016 by fatpig84

[Kinjeto]

12 hours ago, UnderFiend said:

Elele, mind posting a screen shot and your build? I'd love to learn of new and interesting methods. :)

But the question is "Why do you need that build?"
Shouldn't the question be "Well this person did this, with that frame, how do I do that myself?"

 

Edited May 7, 2016 by Kinjeto