Reasons Why Grineer / Corpus / Infested Weapons CAN & SHOULD Be Primed

[ToaPhantom]

2 minutes ago, Grimm said:

i agree. and de does this well. removing and rerunning items. keeping to a scale and changing everything instead of using a new system for new weapons they over hault the system. and probably why primed gear is limited to the tenno faction. de change everything nothing becomes bad unless something new that can do its job better comes out rather then something with better stats. its also usability of the thing. theres so many examples of weapons that became dirt with the release of something but was buff to not become S#&$. de try to balance this game as well as they can and they do pretty well. i think Scotts amazing and his work since he started "undercover Bossing it" has been amazing look at the changes we've had since that, there have been someone people have complained about cos they didnt understand what had happened but after people worked it out it was way better then it was before. DE does a wonderful job at doing what's best for the game and the players. tho sometimes they do stuff that drives us nuts. but we are basically one big family. de are lotus they look out for us and only do things that they think is right. de said a long time ago nekros and up would never be primed but since have said otherwise.  

 

oh S#&$ i just remembered something prisma. thats a thing.

Well said, Grimm :D ! Indeed, we are one big happy family. And we must think of everyone in the family, not just themselves. The idea the poster suggest is only a self-gain. Even though he says to be open-minded, he clearly says " Reasons Why Grineer / Corpus / Infested Weapons CAN & SHOULD Be Primed".
Anyway, nice to see someone that also watches videos from Extra credit. More people need to understand that balance in a game and steady factors will lead the game to a long life. Power creep and other things will drive it to the ground if it isn't thought through.

[Miser_able]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Magician_NG said:

Umm, I believe the Braton is a Corpus weapon and we got a prime variant of that long ago.

Same goes for the Lato, as both the Braton and the Lato have vandal variants...not wraith.

It's not difficult to believe other Corpus tech could be primed some day.

 

I think the braton and lato are tenno weapons but they are mass produced by the corpus.

[(PSN)Kamranos]

1 hour ago, Master-Ouroboros said:

But as for reasons why grineer weapons could be given prime counterparts, look at my previous responses. The look means nothing. It's all about the backstory of how they develop weapons and how they back-engineer orokin tech. (Seer comes to mind.)

This being the case, the Gorgon could be the Grineer weapon based on the Orokin Soma Prime. Making the Soma Prime (looks aside) the Prime Gorgon. This negates the need for a further Gorgon Prime. Almost every main Grineer weapon currently has an Orokin/Prime weapon with great similarities making another version redundant especially if you are throwing looks out of the equation. I understand your want of more weapons, but I would much rather have new weapons rather than more versions of the same old weapons. I'm not devalidating your opinion, just injecting my own logic into it. 

[Void-Shyrok]

INB4 Lock

[RicePixie]

1 hour ago, Master-Ouroboros said:

I can't believe there are people here actually protesting an idea that opens up many more realms of possibility for new content in the future. Why do people play this game if not to enjoy the new content and have FUN? Why would anyone who loves a game willingly shut down an attempt to open up the game to many more possibilities. It's nonsensical.

This, more or less, is what is called a "no true Scotsman fallacy".

Person A (you) says that no Warframe fan would deny "new content" (even though it could be seen as recycled old content - depends how it would be implemented).
Person B, who considers themselves to be a Warframe fan, says that they would deny this "new content".
Person A implies that Person B isn't really a Warframe fan.

This is poor form. Don't do it. It doesn't help your case.

1 hour ago, Master-Ouroboros said:

There is one reason, and one reason only, the only one that's needed. Logic.

A logical argument relies on a syllogism - a three part system of reasoning, consisting of:
- a major premise (eg. all people are created equal)
- a minor premise (eg. I am a person)
- a conclusion (eg. I am equal to other people)

Bear in mind that the minor premise is often omitted from the argument as it is usually widely accepted or obvious within the context.

Here, the major premise is that all Corpus, Grineer and Infested technology is derived directly from Orokin technology - which is certainly debatable, given the massive time gap between present day and the fall of the empire. The minor premise is that Corpus, Grineer and Infested weaponry is derived from their technology. This is widely accepted, and not really worth arguing. The conclusion, then, is that all Corpus, Grineer and Infested weaponry is derived from Orokin technology.

The problem is that there is very little proof for your major premise. Off the top of my head, far less than half of all Grineer and Corpus tech is confirmed to be derived from Orokin tech. Even the Grineer, products of Orokin tech themselves, were forced to make strides on their own to perfect the cloning process (there is no evidence I am aware of that Tyl Regor's research, or the research of Grineer like him, is based on Orokin technology), and while the Corpus practically worship Orokin technology I can only remember two confirmed instances where they successfully utilise it - the fusion moa and Zanuka (which is not even directly from the Orokin, but from the Tenno, who are the closest to the Orokin in terms of their technology). Aside from one or two mysterious weapons like the Synapse and the Mire, the Infested weapons are all either mutated Grineer/Corpus weapons, or very clearly alive, such as the Phage and Djinn. While the "living" weapons may have some connection to the Orokin, given that many are sourced from the Tenno's research lab it seems far more likely that they are, well, the result of some good ol' Tenno R&D.

In the end, the devs can do what they want to do. If they decide that "hey, this random weapon is actually an attempt to emulate the ancient Orokin maguffin gun, we can't really tell them otherwise. But from what exists in the game currently, I think it is highly unlikely that every "Grineer/Corpus/Infested Weapon CAN & SHOULD Be Primed".

If it wasn't past midnight here, I might write a more detailed argument. But, for now, I'll just leave it at this.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Mandomness
Edit for clarity.

[ToaPhantom]

3 minutes ago, Mandomness said:

This, more or less, is what is called a "no true Scotsman fallacy".

Person A (you) says that no Warframe fan would deny "new content" (even though it could be seen as recycled old content - depends how it would be implemented).
Person B, who considers themselves to be a Warframe fan, says that they would deny this "new content".
Person A implies that Person B isn't really a Warframe fan.

This is poor form. Don't do it. It doesn't help your case.

A logical argument relies on a syllogism - a three part system of reasoning, consisting of:
- a major premise (eg. all people are created equal)
- a minor premise (eg. I am a person)
- a conclusion (eg. I am equal to other people)

Bear in mind that the minor premise is often omitted from the argument as it is usually widely accepted or obvious within the context.

Here, the major premise is that all Corpus, Grineer and Infested technology is derived directly from Orokin technology - which is certainly debatable, given the massive time gap between present day and the fall of the empire. The minor premise is that Corpus, Grineer and Infested weaponry is derived from their technology. This is widely accepted, and not really worth arguing. The conclusion, then, is that all Corpus, Grineer and Infested weaponry is derived from Orokin technology.

The problem is that there is very little proof for your major premise. Off the top of my head, far less than half of all Grineer and Corpus tech is confirmed to be derived from Orokin tech. Even the Grineer, products of Orokin tech themselves, were forced to make strides on their own to perfect the cloning process (there is no evidence I am aware of that Tyl Regor's research, or the research of Grineer like him, is based on Orokin technology), and while the Corpus practically worship Orokin technology there are only two confirmed instances where they successfully utilise it - the fusion moa and Zanuka (which is not even directly from the Orokin, but from the Tenno, who are the closest to the Orokin in terms of their technology).

In the end, the devs can do what they want to do. If they decide that "hey, this random weapon is actually an attempt to emulate the ancient Orokin maguffin gun, we can't really tell them otherwise. But from what exists in the game currently, I think it is highly unlikely that every "Grineer/Corpus/Infested Weapon CAN & SHOULD Be Primed".

If it wasn't past midnight here, I might write a more detailed argument. But, for now, I'll just leave it at this.

*Slowclap for Mandomness"

[Gladeus-Ex-Machina]

On topic, the reasoning isn't complete. While a sort of descendency from Orokin weapons is possible, it doesn't work both ways. Grineer, Corpus and Infested weapons follow not only mimicry, but divergent and convergent evolution. Their technology copies functionality but in most cases finds other ways to do it. Grineer weapons use explosives, Corpus weapons are mostly energy or precision mines, and infested use biological weapons. While it's possible that there may be a common precursor, it's far more obvious that a distinct subset of weapons are unique applications of factional technology. At the very least, not every weapon can be reverse primed, while you could stretch and do so for a few. Even then, a Primed faction weapon would barely be different from a Tenno one, so that stretch seems highly unnecessary when functionally is the only important part. Sure, some people may favor faction weapons and want them primed, but the Wraith, Vandal, Mutalist, Prisma, and Syndicate variants are essentially that.

Off topic, it doesn't even matter. DE can add basic Tenno weapons fast enough to make a never ending stream of Primed ones. 

[Slaviar]

1 hour ago, Master-Ouroboros said:

Ok, I'm not gonna bother responding anymore as it's pretty obvious what's going on here. Pure closed minded nonsense, no room for imagination, no room for discussion, just "you're wrong and this is why."

Mods, please delete this thread.

Oh, my poor little special snowflake, entire world's against you... Here, a corner for you. You can go and cry there

[Fionntan]

I wonder if Umbra Weapons would be a thing ....

[CrazyCatLad]

2 hours ago, Xekrin said:

Are you?  Are you really? 

 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Fluff-E-Kitty]

I do not think they should be primed like the rest of the gear, but stuff like the wrath, vandle, and otherwise might be an option.

putting gold on everything should not be the answer.

we also have to remember that the factions where at war during the oriken era I think, so there tech might be based off of each other in an arms race but unless very rare instances like the Seer, they will not integrate or be direct derivatives. they might make guns LIKE prime gear and has stashes of them, but if we think about it in terms of mass production they will never find enough to outfit an army. perhaps a few elite units now and again, but never grunts. corpus are a different story as they have the capacity to reproduce, but they will probably derive and refine to reduce the costs of full production.

my proposed "primed" version of infested would be alpha prefixes, or different mutation names.

Id also love to see corrupted tenno on the filed at some point. somewhat like the shadow ones during the gate crashes when they first came out.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Fluff-E-Kitty

[Misgenesis]

But...thats what the Vandal and Wraith series are for? Infested could get its own one with a 'Evolved' prefix or something.

[Mr.ToastForPresident]

Lets see.

One thing that goes way against your point is that there is the "Mara Detron". The origin of the Mara Detron is from the era of the Orokin, but not exactly Orokin in design.

This means there were other tech from the Orokin era that wasn't all shiny and gold, and probably not have a prime version of it.

So the grineer could have technology from the Orokin era, but not anything really special by the orokin. So essentially, the Corpus and Grineer are basing there technology off of Orokin scraps and nothing more. Not everything from the Orokin era was primed, certainly the grineer are proof that. There is no "primed Grineer" lurking around, and the Grineer from that era were probably not given shiny and gold gear to go mining with. When the Orokin fell, the Grineer probably used the old tools they were given with and re-formatted them for their own use.

For the Corpus, they also used Orokin era scraps. The Detron is probably an alternate Mara Detron, for example. The moa's were built from scraps also. These scraps could be from anything, as in ANYTHING from the Orokin era. That means ship parts, some sort of machinery, coffee makers, whatever. They are scraps and salvage, so not everything made by the Corpus was exactly from a weapon.

The infested are just infested. They are already a "prime" variant because they were from the Orokin era. Most infested weapons are just infested weapons we have now, or just bits and pieces ripped straight out of the infested itself. Of course the Ororkin were obsessed with making everything pretty, so having a bulbous mass is something they probbaly would not want to keep around.

[Rorgal_Sina]

MAYBE they CAN be primed.

 

But I disagree with your SHOULD statement. At this point, what's stopping people from asking for a Grakata Prime even though it makes no freaking sense at all?

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Magician_NG said:

Umm, I believe the Braton is a Corpus weapon and we got a prime variant of that long ago.

Same goes for the Lato, as both the Braton and the Lato have vandal variants...not wraith.

It's not difficult to believe other Corpus tech could be primed some day.

 

It depends on if the Braton and Lato where pre-collapse Corpus/Orokin tech, or post-collapse, in my opinion. It makes sense that the aforementioned weapons would have been primed as the Orokin where around to prime them. But, weapons made after would only be possible, as long as those methods could be duplicated.

[ArcusVeles]

I don't think everything needs a Prime.  A Prisma, Wraith, Vandal and so on are just as good, and tend to better fit the aesthetic of the non-Orokin races.

[motorfirebox]

3 hours ago, Master-Ouroboros said:

There is one reason, and one reason only, the only one that's needed. Logic.

It's not logical. There's no reason to assume that after hundreds or thousands of years, anyone is still using Orokin blueprints as a template for their weapons technology--much less to assume that everyone is still using them as templates for  all their weapons technology. There's no reason to assume that the Infested are using any templates at all. The logic doesn't make sense.

[Lancars]

I like the idea. There could be a line of Corrupted weapon which work like Prime versions but the orokin ships didn't fully flesh it out.

[[DE]Danielle]

On 5/25/2016 at 9:48 AM, Master-Ouroboros said:

Ok, I'm not gonna bother responding anymore as it's pretty obvious what's going on here. Pure closed minded nonsense, no room for imagination, no room for discussion, just "you're wrong and this is why."

Mods, please delete this thread.

OP has requested the thread be removed. Locking in response.