Dev Workshop Part 2: ...& more Warframe Changes.

[-dicht.Amducias-]

5 minutes ago, WingedCrusade said:

Raids aren't actually all that difficult. It's planning and communication that matter...

 

A party of high level vets will get smeared if they don't communicate and co-operate, or know what they're doing.

YOU CANT @(*()$ COMPETE IN RAIDS ANYMORE. ITS EFFECTIVELY TAKING THE LAST REMAINING fUN FROM THEM AND KILLING THEM AS A GAMEMODE.

[AurumandArgentum]

14 minutes ago, (XB1)ThizzLerH20 said:

Dear DE,

 

What you have done is just plain idiotic. I do not post on the forums usually but these NERFS are outrageous. Trinity does not need a Nerf, as well as Excal, Mirage, and all the other frames. I haven't even been playing this a year and logged over 600 hours. If these NERFS are going to be input I will simply not support your game with my hard earned money as you do not deserve it. Simple as that. I hope you take a pole because all this accomplishes is rewarding the people who Btch and Moan about kill stealing when it is a PVE game. Sorry, you have just lost another Tenno. I will be sure to let everyone I know to give the game up, do not download, and do not spend a single penny on this game.

 

Sincerely,

A fallin Tenno due to stupidity by DE

Read this:

 it might help with all that Salt, I'm a Ash user and I can't wait for the Bladestorm rework to hit.

[-CM-Hekovashi]

Just now, WingedCrusade said:

Raids aren't actually all that difficult. It's planning and communication that matter...

 

A party of high level vets will get smeared if they don't communicate and co-operate, or know what they're doing.

Stop play role of DE's defender dear white knight, those decisions are simple dumb and by defending it you don't gonna help. IF de FIRST fix scaling then sure, they can nerf whatever they want, but they doesnt wanna, they wanna remove all cheese from us, while enemys cheese is gonna left untouched. Don't reply to me, tnx

[YagoXiten]

10 minutes ago, -CM-Hekovashi said:

Never did a raid and i kinda have a idea that i don't gonna to start doing them for sure now.

Sure lets nerf all great tools but do nothing to main reason of why players forced to use those great tools-broken enemy scaling.

DE at it flawless-they fix the simptom, not thee main reason of WHY something hapening, just as USUAL.

To keep up with conversation I moved this from an edit to its own post.

 

You guys keep saying this, but clearly don't understand system analysis. Please, read what I just said above. I could go on and on about this topic. But I do assure you that Warframe's enemy scaling is not the reason people resort to cheese. Most of the cheese enemies actually have come AFTER people were cheesing with overpowered Warframe abilities. Sure, Mirage got hit by this recently. But if you weren't aware, Nullifiers, Combas, Bursas, Manics, Drahk Masters, Eximus units, Ancient Healers, Mutalist MOAs, Mutalist Ospreys, Scorpions and Sapper Ospreys weren't in the game as they are now back when Nyx and Sayrn were trivializing content in like U7.

 

[ThumpumGood]

12 minutes ago, GreyEnneract said:

If you honestly think the only people supporting these changes don't go past rotation c then you can leave as well.

Going to just ignore all future low count posts, as they seem to just come here to complain about their cheese being taken away then go back to play the game regardless.

You make no sense. In a game where scaling is endless, there is never a need to nerf. If you think nerfs are good then I doubt you ever go passed 40 minutes.

 

[(XBOX)ThizzLerH20]

1 minute ago, AurumandArgentum said:

Read this:

 it might help with all that Salt, I'm a Ash user and I can't wait for the Bladestorm rework to hit.

Salt is my middle name. But I am not Salty about the Ash NERF. But continue to believe what you like. I was simply just stating a fact, not an opinion.

[ThumpumGood]

2 minutes ago, AurumandArgentum said:

Read this:

 it might help with all that Salt, I'm a Ash user and I can't wait for the Bladestorm rework to hit.

Well Ash may be nice but I WIll NEVER play Mirage or Bless Trin ever again. Rework is one thing. Making the frame pointless is another.

[-dicht.Amducias-]

Just now, ThumpumGood said:

Well Ash may be nice but I WIll NEVER play Mirage or Bless Trin ever again. Rework is one thing. Making the frame pointless is another.

Exactly.

[GreyEnneract]

6 minutes ago, Kurayami_No_Yenshi said:

Except basically all bless trinity's have no range so its only good for EV trin so spam heal which is already much overused for cheezing.

That's considering that the ability will even scale with range mods, since it's based off of the range of the affinity mechanic.

And even if it does, with complete negative range it only goes down to 17m. Learn to put on stretch.

2 minutes ago, -dicht.Amducias- said:

YOU CANT @(*()$ COMPETE IN RAIDS ANYMORE. ITS EFFECTIVELY TAKING THE LAST REMAINING fUN FROM THEM AND KILLING THEM AS A GAMEMODE.

2 minutes ago, ThumpumGood said:

2 minutes ago, ThumpumGood said:

You make no sense. In a game where scaling is endless, there is never a need to nerf. If you think nerfs are good then I doubt you ever go passed 40 minutes.

 

ike the end of people raiding.

 

If you honestly think raids are that difficult then you have many other things to worry about.

If anything, EV is more required than blessing in NLoR.

Using your own logic then, frames should be buffed endlessly.

Absolutely moronic. I'm elated that you will never overlook balance in any game.

[Magnulast]

59 minutes ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

50% damage reduction with some form of CD. Then AFKers will be less than they are, as they can die and loose everything as the whole party can wipe!

Draco will become more about tactics than what serves as them now.

Void the Frost and Trinity would have more activity than standing there like statues, too.

AFKing is a symptom of "I have nothing to do" because of invulnerability.

True, but 50% damage reduction is only half damage reduction.

and it's really insignificant.

I don't know what CD is soo yeah.

I know invulnerability can cause AFK.

[YagoXiten]

1 minute ago, ThumpumGood said:

You make no sense. In a game where scaling is endless, there is never a need to nerf. If you think nerfs are good then I doubt you ever go passed 40 minutes.

 

To illustrate how hilariously wrong you are:

What if I have an ability that can instantly deal 100% Finisher damage to all enemies within 80m, and this ability goes through all defenses, including Nullifiers.

I'm pretty sure that'd need to be nerfed.

Infinite scaling =/= zero balance.

It merely means that you have to balance via counter-play and skill over numerical algorithms.

[R34LM]

2 minutes ago, ThumpumGood said:

Well Ash may be nice but I WIll NEVER play Mirage or Bless Trin ever again. Rework is one thing. Making the frame pointless is another.

Mirage won't be pointless. Just aim the prism up and above the walls of cover. Most maps have enough room for it.

[YagoXiten]

1 minute ago, R34LM said:

Mirage won't be pointless. Just aim the prism up and above the walls of cover. Most maps have enough room for it.

It wouldn't surprise me, though, if the LoS was calculated from Mirage's position, not the origin of the blind. So this remains to be seen if this is possible.

 

EDIT:

You're right, either way, she won't be pointless.

Edited May 27, 2016 by YagoXiten

[Raistlinamon]

1 minute ago, R34LM said:

Mirage won't be pointless. Just aim the prism up and above the walls of cover. Most maps have enough room for it.

you may be right i think the mirage rework may actually be ok.. the trin one however is a bad idea and needs more input from players across a wider range of playstyles to actually be beneficial to thew game

[-CM-Hekovashi]

Just now, YagoXiten said:

To illustrate how hilariously wrong you are:

What if I have an ability that can instantly deal 100% Finisher damage to all enemies within 80m, and this ability goes through all defenses, including Nullifiers.

I'm pretty sure that'd need to be nerfed.

Infinite scaling =/= zero balance.

It merely means that you have to balance via counter-play and skill over numerical algorithms.

You can't overskill oneshots, you really can't, you can't overbalance it or anything. You can't kill stuff after certain lvl without cheese skills or guns, you leterally can't, doesn't matter how good you are. If you gonna keep hitting a wall with you head you don't gonna brake the wall, but you head instead.

[-dicht.Amducias-]

Just now, GreyEnneract said:

That's considering that the ability will even scale with range mods, since it's based off of the range of the affinity mechanic.

And even if it does, with complete negative range it only goes down to 17m. Learn to put on stretch.

 

If you honestly think raids are that difficult then you have many other things to worry about.

If anything, EV is more required than blessing in NLoR.

Using your own logic then, frames should be buffed endlessly.

Absolutely moronic. I'm elated that you will never overlook balance in any game.

I never said that raids are hard now.. they are already risky and before you tell me that i dont know what im talking about.. here:

And still these changes effectively ruin exactly this.. competing in raids, doing them fast and reliably and this was the last remaining fun in them..

[ThumpumGood]

2 minutes ago, GreyEnneract said:

That's considering that the ability will even scale with range mods, since it's based off of the range of the affinity mechanic.

And even if it does, with complete negative range it only goes down to 17m. Learn to put on stretch.

 

If you honestly think raids are that difficult then you have many other things to worry about.

If anything, EV is more required than blessing in NLoR.

Using your own logic then, frames should be buffed endlessly.

Absolutely moronic. I'm elated that you will never overlook balance in any game.

They aren't that difficult.... now. But without a bless trin or a blind mirage... I wont be doing them

Nerfing in an environment where the NPC scale endlessly is counter productive. The only purpose it serves is to make the people who cant get 180 minutes, feel competitive. And they arent. They will never be. They will be the only people left in the game if they continue nerfing it. I quit for 3 months over the extraction changes. Adults dont have the additional time it takes to do the mission. Used to take 20 min or so to get 1800 cryotic. Now it takes 30. In the grander scheme of things, The adults are the ones financing this game and people need to start thinking about our time and money.

[ThumpumGood]

7 minutes ago, YagoXiten said:

To illustrate how hilariously wrong you are:

What if I have an ability that can instantly deal 100% Finisher damage to all enemies within 80m, and this ability goes through all defenses, including Nullifiers.

I'm pretty sure that'd need to be nerfed.

Infinite scaling =/= zero balance.

It merely means that you have to balance via counter-play and skill over numerical algorithms.

You prove you have no clue what you're talking about by saying this. Get a group together and run for 120-180 minutes. Then get back to me.

[YagoXiten]

2 minutes ago, -CM-Hekovashi said:

You can't overskill oneshots, you really can't, you can't overbalance it or anything. You can't kill stuff after certain lvl without cheese skills or guns, you leterally can't, doesn't matter how good you are. If you gonna keep hitting a wall with you head you don't gonna brake the wall, but you head instead.

Exactly. And do you know why enemies are balanced presently such that they can do that? Because if not, there is no room for any sort of challenge, because the enemies are permanently CC'd, outside of your cast time.

Is it bad difficulty? Of course. But making our enemies fair isn't going to add challenge. It'd actually just remove it completely.

 

EDIT: Once Warframe abilities are balanced, it'll become far more apparent our enemies are just bullet sponges, and they will move on to fix that. They're definitely aware it's an issue. But they also know if they fix it now, it will actually only make the game easier and thus less interesting.

 

 

Edited May 27, 2016 by YagoXiten

[GreyEnneract]

1 minute ago, ThumpumGood said:

You prove you have no clue what you're talking about by saying this. Get a group together and run for 120-180 minutes. Then get back to me.

You're the one who has not a single iota of what you're talking about when you think everything should only be buffed.

[Reaper-God]

2 hours ago, YagoXiten said:

We don't even have numbers or scaling values for the reworks yet. Put down your pitchfork and wait for the patch to drop. Sayrn can do a hell of a lot without having every single stat above 200%, and I'm sure Mag will be just fine, too. Bladestorm pretty much needs deleted. It's honestly as bad as Mesa's Peacemaker was.

Many of the underused frames aren't underused because they are too weak. It's because there are outliers that are so hilariously broken that no one wants to use anything else. Mesa deserved her nerfs. Don't act like anyone played her for anything other than Peacemaker and easy farm on things like Draco. You don't actually have to speed the grind up and trivialize the missions to have fun. If you do that, you might get that shiny new Prime faster, but once you've gotten it, you'll be right back to where you started with another notch in your Mastery belt and nothing more. You'll have nothing to do. Furthermore, it's not fun for everything to instantly die to Bladestorm/Peacemaker/World on Fire/Exalted Blade before anyone other than those frames can touch an enemy.

Ok good luck in your missions with a maximum mob lvl of 50. For us, real players, who want to reach the maximum and enjoy the lategame, nerfs like that have a huge impact. 

[(PSN)KwietStorm]

15 minutes ago, ThumpumGood said:

Well Ash may be nice but I WIll NEVER play Mirage or Bless Trin ever again. Rework is one thing. Making the frame pointless is another.

A change that affects "Bless Trin," which is an exploit that the community came up with on it's own, does not make Trinity as a frame, useless. I'm not gonna lie, the changes to the damage debuff pretty much sucks, but don't exaggerate and be overly dramatic like everyone loves to do.

[-CM-Hekovashi]

Just now, YagoXiten said:

Exactly. And do you know why enemies are balanced presently such that they can do that? Because if not, there is no room for any sort of challenge, because the enemies are permanently CC'd, outside of your cast time.

Is it bad difficulty? Of course. But making our enemies fair isn't going to add challenge. It'd actually just remove it completely.

 

EDIT: Once Warframe abilities are balanced, it'll become far more apparent our enemies are just bullet sponges, and they will move on to fix that. They're definitely aware it's an issue. But they also know if they fix it now, it will actually only make the game easier and thus less interesting.

 

 

First-you fix the reason why someone use something, Second-you fix what they use, not vica versa. God know WHEN de gonna begin to start of that enemy fixing stuff, but still they remove tools from us and leave us in this battlefield without a gun or with a tiny one, right now That is not good.

[EmptyDevil]

19 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Ash's Bladestorm are both under review as well. If we determine a course of action for either of these powers, we will let you know here. Feel free to link us threads on either of these with your thoughts!

Here are my ideas!

 

[YagoXiten]

Just now, Reaper-God said:

Ok good luck in your missions with a maximum mob lvl of 50. For us, real players, who want to reach the maximum and enjoy the lategame, nerfs like that have a huge impact. 

Ad hominems aren't going to make your argument any better. I sure hope the nerfs have a huge impact. They're meant to?

 

 

 

1 minute ago, -CM-Hekovashi said:

First-you fix the reason why someone use something, Second-you fix what they use, not vica versa. God know WHEN de gonna begin to start of that enemy fixing stuff, but still they remove tools from us and leave us in this battlefield without a gun or with a tiny one, right now That is not good.

The reason people use what they do is not enemy scaling. I believe I stated this earlier, but most of the cheese enemies did not exist a long time ago, and people will STILL trivializing content with CC and instantly killing rooms with AoE.