Mag Rework Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[MagPrime]

10 hours ago, Reifnir said:

Magnetize is NOT a snowglobe. Unless they change it so that it can be cast on terrain (here's an augment idea right here - turn Magnetize into a "cast on terrain" type spell that redirects incoming projectiles back where they came from), it's not going to be a viable defensive tool outside of Simulacrum.

Because in real life scenarios, enemies tend to come in from well, everywhere and are often not nice enough to wait for you to cover every direction with magnetize bubbles, especially when a single Bombard rocket can redecorate the area using your teammates as wall paint. So far, the only use for it is to stick it on bosses that are not immune (hello, Lt. Lech Krill!) and make it work as a damage booster. 

And Banshee doesn't need to restore shields to the team - she is much, much better at debuffing/stunlocking enemies, since that's something she's good at. 

EDIT: EDYinnit has corrected me.

What? No.

You don't put Magnetize on Lech Krill.  Why?  Because you have to target those stupid tubs on his back and that ability makes that almost impossible.  There are two bosses I can think of off the top of my head that Magnetize works well on; Alad V/Zanuka and Kela.  Well, okay, a few more.  The Sargent, the MOA boss you get Excal from, the Osprey boss you get Nova from, LoR Hek...

As to "real life" scenarios, I've had no issue placing multiple bubbles at 4 points and using that bullet free time to revive a teammate.  An example of how to accomplish this; use Pull to knock down multiple targets, cast Magnetize while they're still standing up.  Bam, done.   Not good enough?  Use Fracturing/Crush.  Cast Magnetize while they're standing up.  Bam, done.   Bombards an issue?  Drop Magnetize, use Polarize and let his friends and his shattered armor do the killing for you.

And I'm not talking about 20 minutes into Appolodorous, I've done the above while 30+ minutes into a Cupid run.  It's a matter of being aware of your surroundings and thinking about how to use your abilities while being mobile, instead of standing in the middle of the room and hitting one button, like she used to be. 

Edited June 14, 2016 by Noamuth
Adding edit about being wrong.

[TheLexiConArtist]

36 minutes ago, Noamuth said:

What? No.

You don't put Magnetize on Lech Krill.  Why?  Because you have to target those stupid tubs on his back and that ability makes that almost impossible.  There are two bosses I can think of off the top of my head that Magnetize works well on; Alad V/Zanuka and Kela.  Well, okay, a few more.  The Sargent, the MOA boss you get Excal from, the Osprey boss you get Nova from, LoR Hek...

You don't need to target the tubes, just the giant orange weakspot. Granted, with a bubble on him, you have to make sure the projectiles go in from the right angle, but it's not that much worse than normal.

He's not the best, especially with him shooting out of the bubble when he felt like it, but it doesn't harm.

 

Almost every boss is handled by Magnetise. I'm going to run a bunch and check for any outliers. Expect edits.

Lephantis: Phase 2 is not damaged by DoT ticks (amalgamate entity causes bubbles to target/spawn on body)

Sargas Ruk: For reasons, Sargas' three weakspots behave incredibly oddly with Magnetise involved. They took almost no damage (ticks of three) from the projectiles spawned by continuals, and were overall immune to the DoT.

Dispelling bosses (Stalker): obvious reasons

 

..Well, can't find any more problem cases. Others either have invulnerability phases while being fully DoT-vulnerable otherwise (Hek, Raptor etc). I'm pretty sure Corrupted Vor (if he even counts) is vulnerable, but I didn't blow a t4 key on checking that directly.

Maybe Mutalist Alad, although I'm pretty sure as soon as the collar's off, he'd be taking damage since there's no specific location issue.

Edited June 14, 2016 by EDYinnit

[MagPrime]

Just now, EDYinnit said:

You don't need to target the tubes, just the giant orange weakspot. Granted, with a bubble on him, you have to make sure the projectiles go in from the right angle, but it's not that much worse than normal.

He's not the best, especially with him shooting out of the bubble when he felt like it, but it doesn't harm.

 

Almost every boss is handled by Magnetise. I'm going to run a bunch and check for any outliers. Expect edits.

Lephantis: Phase 2 is not damaged by DoT ticks (amalgamate entity causes bubbles to target/spawn on body)

Sargas Ruk: For reasons, Sargas' three weakspots behave incredibly oddly with Magnetise involved. They took almost no damage (ticks of three) from the projectiles spawned by continuals, and were overall immune to the DoT.

 

I can say that Jackal should not be Magnetized.  Had a newbie Mag do it and it was annoying havign to jump the knock down waves while the ability timed out.   We simply could not damage the joints with it active.

[TheLexiConArtist]

3 minutes ago, Noamuth said:

I can say that Jackal should not be Magnetized.  Had a newbie Mag do it and it was annoying havign to jump the knock down waves while the ability timed out.   We simply could not damage the joints with it active.

Sortie mode? I ran regular just now and while it didn't seem to do anything against the joints (possibly excepting correct positioning to make the particles pass through them), the DoT was enough to eat through the shield and take it down. Well, something happened and it imploded. I think it might have redirected its murder missiles back into itself.

[MagPrime]

16 minutes ago, EDYinnit said:

Sortie mode? I ran regular just now and while it didn't seem to do anything against the joints (possibly excepting correct positioning to make the particles pass through them), the DoT was enough to eat through the shield and take it down. Well, something happened and it imploded. I think it might have redirected its murder missiles back into itself.

Hmm, good to know.  

It wasn't Sortie mode, it was a normal mission; I was tagging along with a newbie I know IRL.  The PUG Mag cast Magnetize and unloaded their MK-1 Braton into it, as did the other people, and nothing happend to Jackal. 

[TheLexiConArtist]

3 hours ago, Noamuth said:

Hmm, good to know.  

It wasn't Sortie mode, it was a normal mission; I was tagging along with a newbie I know IRL.  The PUG Mag cast Magnetize and unloaded their MK-1 Braton into it, as did the other people, and nothing happend to Jackal. 

Well, assuming it was the DoT and not redirecting the missiles/grenades that did it, makes sense that some MK-1 Bratons without many mods wouldn't build enough up to cut the shield and damage health without a limb severing.

Which was just as much a problem with the original BA, for what it's worth.

 

Come to think of it, it very possibly was the explosives - redirected back in on itself, the AOE could have knocked out a leg while the DoT tick was enough to instant kill the health. Jackal and its shields are... awkward.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Been running T4's recently, combining naramon melee and her Kit by basicly magneticing or pulling->magneticing incomming targets, getting krits and thus invisibility as I close in and feeding the bubbles to kill&mine.

Hardly die. Beat even decent ash's damagewise. What's with all the rant?

[Reifnir]

1 hour ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Been running T4's recently, combining naramon melee and her Kit by basicly magneticing or pulling->magneticing incomming targets, getting krits and thus invisibility as I close in and feeding the bubbles to kill&mine.

Hardly die. Beat even decent ash's damagewise. What's with all the rant?

You could've ended the sentence with "Naramon melee". Anything added past Naramon perma-invisibility mode is just icing. With everything said and done I'm still inclined to think that current Mag is a one-trick pony, trick being magnetizing the bosses to soften them up and return their damage to them. The rest of her kit is still *extremely* meh and other, more specalized frames can contribute better in her place.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

1 hour ago, Reifnir said:

You could've ended the sentence with "Naramon melee". Anything added past Naramon perma-invisibility mode is just icing. With everything said and done I'm still inclined to think that current Mag is a one-trick pony, trick being magnetizing the bosses to soften them up and return their damage to them. The rest of her kit is still *extremely* meh and other, more specalized frames can contribute better in her place.

Try naramon melee with lackluster classes. Maining melee and keeping naramon active in a constant, never ending Stream of enemys is one story, having Stealth as coverage to perform in melee range is a entirely different one. 

Is it despicable to use Stealth as you pass from one Bubble to the next? (Everything beyond is counterproductive anyways) What's with the attitude in generall? Is it or is it not part of the game? 

[(PSN)CybaTeddy34]

okay just want to say that mags rework is amazing and actually the scaling of percentage is as good as the weapon you have now im no endurance run player but ive tested new mag and i can definately say the amount of damage output is based on the amount of damage your weapon deals change to magnetise in conjunction with polarise and trust me youll see a considerable amount of damage i will say i think her solo is barely viable but just barely with the rework her scaling exceeds much more than i have achieved ive got her still  1 shotting lvl 80 enemies all based on magnetise the way polarise worked before was amazing against a single faction thats all most people are only complaining because of corpus sorties try her out more trust me definately more viable

 

[tnccs215]

3 hours ago, Reifnir said:

The rest of her kit is still *extremely* meh and other, more specalized frames can contribute better in her place.

AKA she isnt the default meta.

just because she isn't the best at a job it doesn't mean she isn't good. Specialized frames are good at the thing they are specialized in. Non-specialized frames are more adaptable, more dynamic. I honestly like her as she is. She needs some tweaks here and there, but overall... Pretty good.

[Reifnir]

41 minutes ago, tnccs215 said:

just because she isn't the best at a job it doesn't mean she isn't good.

It kinda does. 

You see, not everyone has 30+ warframe slots, every warframe, and every mod maxed to allow the luxury of choosing sub-optimal frames just because they like them. Try to look at it from a new player perspective - would you waste a warframe slot (not to mention the acquisition/building process) for a Mag when you have 1-2 open slots and sorely need a frame that is likely to get invited into groups? I wouldn't. 

 

To add insult to injury, Mag is a starter frame - and her kit, when you don't have access to a bunch of Corrupted/Primed or otherwise hard-to-max mods is, for a lack of better term, underwhelming. Oh, and she looks like an anorexic in a diving suit, too, unless you invest heavily in accessories and/or Steam cosmetics. So no, she doesn't need "a couple of tweaks", she needs more love by the truckloads, IMO. 

Edited June 14, 2016 by Reifnir

[(PSN)Trutenax89]

I guess I'm in the minority but i actually really like the mag rework with some small gripes. I think mag prime/frost prime needs more energy. Additionally, crush is the weakest part of her kit (kind of like saryns miasma) in that it only does more damage. I love the idea of all hr abilities interaction with armor fragments, and it would be great if you could pull then shoot them with pull and if crush would utilize them as well, a god rule of thumb is "what can magneto do?"

[tnccs215]

5 hours ago, Reifnir said:

It kinda does. 

You see, not everyone has 30+ warframe slots, every warframe, and every mod maxed to allow the luxury of choosing sub-optimal frames just because they like them. Try to look at it from a new player perspective - would you waste a warframe slot (not to mention the acquisition/building process) for a Mag when you have 1-2 open slots and sorely need a frame that is likely to get invited into groups? I wouldn't. 

I would.

you know why? Because the first build I took her with for my first mission with her--- a t4 interception-- was something of the likes of 128% duration, 130% efficiency, 145% range, and 155% strength. And yes, obvious use of corrupted mods, but don't you notice something? Its a build so similar to what you manage to do with the most basic ones: Continuity, streamline, stretch and intensify.

Saying that "she needs a ton of corrupted mods" is invalid on three fronts:

1)every frame requires the use of corrupted mods to be efficient past sedna. There is not one "good build" that don't use them. Stop acting as of this was a problem reserved to her-- indeed, since we are talking about starters, I think Volt has a bigger problem with this than her.

2)She does not need corrupted mods. She doesn't. Her powers-- that are more dependent of proper use than mod use (barring, maybe, her 3 and 4)-- do not require any mods to be effective at low-mid levels. Pull's stats generous, Crush's range and damage are incredible at lower levels, and magnetize is barely affected by mods, only trully shinning trough its scaling. She, much like newer and some reworked frames, is much less dependent on mods (in general, barring redirection and vitality of course) than others. I mean, Inaros, Saryn... Even Ivara (except for Artemis bow) are all incredibly independent from mods. Yes, they are greatly augmented by them, but they don't need them. Not like Equinox. Not like Chroma. Not like old Saryn, not like Ember... Do I have to go on?

Why? Well, I'm not sure. Possibly, because these are more and more concrete effects, instead of straight up buffs or nukes. Additionally, there are no dead stats. Still, there is something peculiar about newer frames that doesn't allow exploitation, and gives much more room for experimentation, while still being effective. Regardless;

3)she used to be much, much more dependent on mods to be barely viable. She was a one trick pony, either useless or overpowered. And she demanded corrupted mods as hell. She was the embodiment of corrupted exploitation. Polarize only ever got to be what we know it for due to corrupted mods. Whether you like her or not, she was improved.

And do I have to remind you how her non-scaling abilities only become problematic on late game? Dont you know that Polarize, without strength mods, will wipe clean the armor and shields of low level enemies? That enemy level is irrelevant for pull's main effect-- cc-- and that the ability can even kill low levels? That magnetize base stats will completely destroy enemies even without any additional imputed damage?That crush, for all effects and purposes, can still kill some level 30 grineer?

You are simply wrong. The only possible reason for a newbie to consider warframe slots a luxury-- like you appear to portray them-- is if no one tells them how easy 20 plat is to get. And since warframe requires so much community help, I doubt those people would stick for much longer anyway.

Also, "she's ugly" is both subjective and an invalid criticism. Hydroid, for example, is downright hideous and I'm not posting that as an argument for his lack of quality.

.

[(PSN)xKAIOWAx]

Mag s my main char, believe me, she s much more powerful and dangerous now

[(PSN)A_SimpleName]

I finally had a chance to try out the reworked Mag and she is definitely different. I don't mind the fact that her abilities and play style has change (that's what a rework do), but i don't like the new gameplay. I'm not saying the rework is bad; I'm saying that the rework is different and no longer fit my play style. I find it not interesting and boring (my opinion).I do see that she has potential to deal out more damage to group of any faction, but the tactic is boring to me. The style is akin to camping. It feels grounded, less movement, slower paced.  

Before - I jump and dash around everywhere, casting powers, shooting guns. Shield polarize when my shield get depleted and quickly get back to fast action pace.

Now - Shield polarize is no longer an effective way to recover shield (over-shield; augment mod). I find that I need to magnetize a target in pretty much stay within that bubble. I'm no longer have the "freedom" to run, dash, jump around anymore. I feel much much squishier now than previously. My mag survivability has diminish greatly. This could be part of my own skill-level and that I need to adapt to changes.

I had try both lower duration (~50-80%) as well as higher (150%+) but I can't seem to find a build fitting. I will much appreciate if someone who like the new mag post his setup (mods, gun, playstyle), so that I can give this another go before I make a final decision. I like to play every frame. It will be a shame if I have to wave the white flag with this one. I want to give an objective review by viewing all angles.  

  

[(PSN)Mrdemon55480]

Let me get this straight u make frames weaker instead of better just because u think is better i just to love this game but now it makes me not want to play any more whatever u think is better but is not funn any more i mean am mr 21 put so many hours to get stronger expend so much money formas time i get back afer 2 weeks no bless no shield polarize leeches all over nullafiers stronger enemys but my frames are loosing strange i dont know what u guys are doing but u taking a funn good game in to something that locks alll that u might think is better but sometimes 2 much is 2 much u guys are really @(*()$ up a game that i just to love and have fun 

[tnccs215]

26 minutes ago, (PS4)Mrdemon55480 said:

Let me get this straight u make frames weaker instead of better just because u think is better i just to love this game but now it makes me not want to play any more whatever u think is better but is not funn any more i mean am mr 21 put so many hours to get stronger expend so much money formas time i get back afer 2 weeks no bless no shield polarize leeches all over nullafiers stronger enemys but my frames are loosing strange i dont know what u guys are doing but u taking a funn good game in to something that locks alll that u might think is better but sometimes 2 much is 2 much u guys are really @(*()$ up a game that i just to love and have fun 

please, commas.

[(PSN)Mrdemon55480]

Is a shame how de just fucks things like this so disapointed on this guys i almost never use mag now she is useless just like D.E  guys 

[(PSN)Mrdemon55480]

2 hours ago, tnccs215 said:

please, commas.

Sorry

[WinterishRope]

So i hated this update at first but after alot more testing and a change of playstyle I love it

[MagPrime]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Mrdemon55480 said:

Is a shame how de just fucks things like this so disapointed on this guys i almost never use mag now she is useless just like D.E  guys 

What build are you using?  I posted mine a couple pages back, and with that I'm wrecking face on higher level missions.

[Joel_The_Jackle]

33 minutes ago, WinterishRope said:

So i hated this update at first but after alot more testing and a change of playstyle I love it

I fall into this camp as well. I have other salt post elsewhere on the forums so this is my correction of thought.

My 2 cents on a million cent-long page:

Her 1 is fine. It would be nice if you could use her one and pull enemies into her 2 instead of through it...but its still a fine 1 compared to other frames 1 power.

Her 2 is stellar...being able to cast 4 of them makes mag able to choke off even relatively open areas effectively. The only things I would change would be to make it have a little more pull...things like sprinting moas, anti-moas and butchers run though it like its not even there. It kinda needs a little more magnetize to it or something...maybe scaling off the armour or shield level of the target mob...making a bombard or heavy gunner pull harder than having it on a random trash mob.

Then there is the travel-time weapon thing. Not sure if that was an intended "feature" but I know the new trick is the lanka. Personally I have been goofing around using a zhuge just to be diffrent...used it in today's corpus sortie today and it worked beautifully all the way through. I really wish that they would make hit scan bullets act the same way the travel time projectiles do.

Her 3 isn't a nuke anymore. It is a debuff tool to make enemies take more damage from her 2. I have taken it solo into t4 and sorties and its not a CP replacement for a group of 4 but it does a decent job of stripping armour and shields. Just don't expect it to be like old Mag's corpus killing one-button-of-death. Keep it constantly casting...when duration runs out, cast it again. It would be nice if its scaled IMO, I'm kind of hoping that's a sign that they are intending on reworking enemy armour scalling. As it is it works, but it could work better. If they leave it I think it would be nice if it had a small CC element like banshee has on her silence.

Mag's 4....isn't bad stat wise...but OMFG you can get beat to death with a broom handle in the time it takes her to do a song, dance, wave, jump, clap and crush. Even natural talent can't save this skill from being waaay to long to cast. 

Over all she's a long way from being dead...she could be better and she should have been better after the hype they gave her re-work...but she can still be used in content beyond the star chart...I've taken her there...

 

[(PSN)Silverback73]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Mrdemon55480 said:

Is a shame how de just fucks things like this so disapointed on this guys i almost never use mag now she is useless just like D.E  guys 

Please, constructive criticism...punctuation...and commas. ?

[--Q--uaint]

Just now, Joel_The_Jackle said:

Keep it constantly casting...when duration runs out, cast it again.

Do you think it'd be fair to reduce the casting cost for Polarize to compensate for wanting/needing to keep it up and it not being lethal?