Mag Rework Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[WinterishRope]

1 hour ago, Joel_The_Jackle said:

I fall into this camp as well. I have other salt post elsewhere on the forums so this is my correction of thought.

My 2 cents on a million cent-long page:

Her 1 is fine. It would be nice if you could use her one and pull enemies into her 2 instead of through it...but its still a fine 1 compared to other frames 1 power.

Her 2 is stellar...being able to cast 4 of them makes mag able to choke off even relatively open areas effectively. The only things I would change would be to make it have a little more pull...things like sprinting moas, anti-moas and butchers run though it like its not even there. It kinda needs a little more magnetize to it or something...maybe scaling off the armour or shield level of the target mob...making a bombard or heavy gunner pull harder than having it on a random trash mob.

Then there is the travel-time weapon thing. Not sure if that was an intended "feature" but I know the new trick is the lanka. Personally I have been goofing around using a zhuge just to be diffrent...used it in today's corpus sortie today and it worked beautifully all the way through. I really wish that they would make hit scan bullets act the same way the travel time projectiles do.

Her 3 isn't a nuke anymore. It is a debuff tool to make enemies take more damage from her 2. I have taken it solo into t4 and sorties and its not a CP replacement for a group of 4 but it does a decent job of stripping armour and shields. Just don't expect it to be like old Mag's corpus killing one-button-of-death. Keep it constantly casting...when duration runs out, cast it again. It would be nice if its scaled IMO, I'm kind of hoping that's a sign that they are intending on reworking enemy armour scalling. As it is it works, but it could work better. If they leave it I think it would be nice if it had a small CC element like banshee has on her silence.

Mag's 4....isn't bad stat wise...but OMFG you can get beat to death with a broom handle in the time it takes her to do a song, dance, wave, jump, clap and crush. Even natural talent can't save this skill from being waaay to long to cast. 

Over all she's a long way from being dead...she could be better and she should have been better after the hype they gave her re-work...but she can still be used in content beyond the star chart...I've taken her there...

 

If her 1 could pull enemies that didn't make it into her magnetize inside the bubble i'd feel it get rid of some of the kinks in how magnetise works . Pull is such a great cheap crowd control when your bullet jumping around enemies . It really is only a bad option on defense / interception mission.

. The 2 seems to ignore those enemies like you mentioned. Though it's a amazing offense ability . I've been using a sobek /acid shells with Mag lately on lower - mid lvl missions ( Cause frankly to popular opinon not everything is lvl 100 + ) and it functions well with all her abilities .

I just find her 3 a waste of energy at this point as i'd rather do other things then cast the 3 most of the time. If it scaled then I'd find it more viable. The shards it makes are cool but the only enemies i need to strip armor off of are high lvl grinneer and it fails at that. The enemy lvls it functions well against i don't' need any assistance in getting rid of them.

I've read that fracturing crush scales with power strength and i'm gonna test that out on her 4 .If it does remove armor at a % that means we now have a mag with 3 out of 4 viable skills. But god damn does the 4 take forever to cast. I won't even try to cast it when not in a team setting or hiding behind cover.

 

She's still a offensive juggernaut but now relies on your weapons to get the job done.  I just feel she needs a energy increase and the 3 to scale. Mag is still one of my most played frames to this day.

Edited June 15, 2016 by WinterishRope

[Joel_The_Jackle]

1 hour ago, ChronoEclipse said:

Do you think it'd be fair to reduce the casting cost for Polarize to compensate for wanting/needing to keep it up and it not being lethal?

I'd say so, if like I noted they didn't make it flat with intention to address the way that armour scales in the late game. IMO health should scale but armour should be a constant at a particular level range. Or if they gave polarize a small CC stun each time it is cast to give it a touch more utility. If armour scaling isn't addressed I think they should think about making it scale. It's not like DE hasn't done it recently (acid shells and vulcan blitz) so I don't see why they would shy away from it on a warframe skill. 

The long and the short though is it's still not a bad 3, its more...lackluster...in that its power is more to beef up the insanity of your 2...and kind of makes the skills feel like the 2 and 3 should have been reversed in order....

Edited June 15, 2016 by Joel_The_Jackle

[RealPandemonium]

Just saying, my 200% power str mag was fully stripping the armor of Grineer light and medium units in yesterday's Sortie 1 and 2 in one Polarize (and killing many of them) with one or two CPs present, and doing it in 2 in Sortie 3.  I had brought @tnccs215 's fracturing Crush build but I didn't even need to use it on the light units, which was a pleasant surprise.  

Edited June 15, 2016 by RealPandemonium

[Tenno29543]

On 6/13/2016 at 5:16 PM, tnccs215 said:

She's the only frame capable of permanently reduce high enemy armor to 0

She is one of the few capable of turning enemy fire agaisnt themselves, and use that as a strategic defense.

She is capable, with spacial awareness, to thrive through knowledge in the battlefield.

And she restores shields. Honeslty, she brings a lot to the table.

"She is capable, with spacial awareness, to thrive through knowledge in the battlefield." i can say that to about every frame.

"She is one of the few capable of turning enemy fire agaisnt themselves, and use that as a strategic defense." well is it that effective? more effective then EB and other strongdmg abilities?

"and she restores shields. Honeslty, she brings a lot to the table.", like i said, why not use a trin to restore shields and health?

"She's the only frame capable of permanently reduce high enemy armor to 0" yeah sure but you ned about your whole power pool to strip a lvl 100 void gunner down. Why can't u just use 4x cp? much more effective, and saves a space for other frames.

[TheLexiConArtist]

1 hour ago, BigBlackCook said:

"She is one of the few capable of turning enemy fire agaisnt themselves, and use that as a strategic defense." well is it that effective? more effective then EB and other strongdmg abilities?

"and she restores shields. Honeslty, she brings a lot to the table.", like i said, why not use a trin to restore shields and health?

Comparing abilities in a vacuum. Why not use a Trinity to restore shields and health? Because Trinity doesn't have the rest of Mag's kit. If Mag restored shields and health on Trinity's level and had all those other facets of her kit, well, then why would you bring Trinity for her heal when she doesn't come equipped with bullet+projectile soak/area control/AOE CC/enemy displacement?

[tnccs215]

5 hours ago, BigBlackCook said:

"She is capable, with spacial awareness, to thrive through knowledge in the battlefield." i can say that to about every frame.

"She is one of the few capable of turning enemy fire agaisnt themselves, and use that as a strategic defense." well is it that effective? more effective then EB and other strongdmg abilities?

"and she restores shields. Honeslty, she brings a lot to the table.", like i said, why not use a trin to restore shields and health?

"She's the only frame capable of permanently reduce high enemy armor to 0" yeah sure but you ned about your whole power pool to strip a lvl 100 void gunner down. Why can't u just use 4x cp? much more effective, and saves a space for other frames.

Congratulations. You've proven that, with 4 specialized frames, you can do a better job than with only an adaptable one.

Ironic that you talked of how not everyone hs 30+ frame slots lying around, yet forget that the MAXIMUM number of frames a mission allows is 4-- and many people dont even go with a full squad, for several reasons.

Your reasons for her uselessness can be applied to all non-meta frame.

Admitting that a frame can only be tasked with one or two roles and if they arent the Best at it they are useless is idiotic. Frames can be tasked with several roles, and there is only a need for especialized frames when the situation demands it.

[ograzzt]

7 hours ago, RealPandemonium said:

I had brought @tnccs215 's fracturing Crush build but I didn't even need to use it on the light units, which was a pleasant surprise.  

Well, light grineer units have 5 base armor and heavys have 500. Their armor is nothing on any level.

[RealPandemonium]

2 minutes ago, ograzzt said:

Well, light grineer units have 5 base armor and heavys have 500. Their armor is nothing on any level.

When I say light and medium units I'm talking in the 100-300 base armor range. As you say, Butchers and the like never get relevant armor values; I wouldn't include them when discussing armor and neither would anyone else who knows what they're talking about.  

[MagPrime]

8 hours ago, tnccs215 said:

Congratulations. You've proven that, with 4 specialized frames, you can do a better job than with only an adaptable one.

Ironic that you talked of how not everyone hs 30+ frame slots lying around, yet forget that the MAXIMUM number of frames a mission allows is 4-- and many people dont even go with a full squad, for several reasons.

Your reasons for her uselessness can be applied to all non-meta frame.

Admitting that a frame can only be tasked with one or two roles and if they arent the Best at it they are useless is idiotic. Frames can be tasked with several roles, and there is only a need for especialized frames when the situation demands it.

Stop engaging the troll.  <3

[DarkCobalt]

Ok so quick note about Mag's Magnetize:

Everyone knows the stupidity that comes with Magnetize's odd buggy synergy with the Lanka. Guess what enemy also has a Lanka? The Nullifiers. If a late-game Nullifier, like level 100+ Nullifier shoots into Magnetize, basically it's instadeath for any ally that is in the center. Normally Nullifiers have pretty bad aim, but thanks to Magnetize, they can now consistently kill unaware allies! My team mates downed several times inside the bubble because of the enemy bullets circling inside it. With the volume of enemy spawns and the volume of fire going into the Magnetize bubble, it's instant death if any allied Warframe moves into the center. Doesn't matter if they're bullet jumping, sprinting, or strolling along, it's instant death. Incredibly frustrating because as we know now, Mags just put down 4 huge bubbles and it's free deaths for allies at that point since they can't move through the bubble without taking bullet damage in the center.

Perhaps lower the damage that enemy bullets do if they enter the bubble or something. Annoying and frustrating as it is right now :[

[RealPandemonium]

28 minutes ago, DarkCobalt said:

Ok so quick note about Mag's Magnetize:

Everyone knows the stupidity that comes with Magnetize's odd buggy synergy with the Lanka. Guess what enemy also has a Lanka? The Nullifiers. If a late-game Nullifier, like level 100+ Nullifier shoots into Magnetize, basically it's instadeath for any ally that is in the center. Normally Nullifiers have pretty bad aim, but thanks to Magnetize, they can now consistently kill unaware allies! My team mates downed several times inside the bubble because of the enemy bullets circling inside it. With the volume of enemy spawns and the volume of fire going into the Magnetize bubble, it's instant death if any allied Warframe moves into the center. Doesn't matter if they're bullet jumping, sprinting, or strolling along, it's instant death. Incredibly frustrating because as we know now, Mags just put down 4 huge bubbles and it's free deaths for allies at that point since they can't move through the bubble without taking bullet damage in the center.

Perhaps lower the damage that enemy bullets do if they enter the bubble or something. Annoying and frustrating as it is right now :[

This is an obvious bug that should be fixed; report it as such.  Feedback forums is not a place to discuss blatant bugs.  

[tnccs215]

1 minute ago, RealPandemonium said:

This is an obvious bug that should be fixed; report it as such.  Feedback forums is not a place to discuss blatant bugs.  

mh... Maybe it isn't?

I noticed you still take damage if you are between the point of impact in the buble and the center: Enemy projectiles dont become "friendly" when they enter, they become able to damage anyone. I'm not surprised that what @DarkCobalt described happens.

Maybe it should be altered, so that enemy bullets become"friendly"? Than again, this is not an ability intended for use as a snow globe (or maybe it is...), but yes as an inverted, specific version of it, meant to trap enemies and protect allies by preventing them from shooting outside the bubble, and not both ways.. I dont know.

 

[(PSN)richardlyn57]

This is so bad i was the biggest mag fan i sent a support ticket thinking there was a error with my mag and was told of the rework  an got sent here to vent my frustrations basically why did they have to change shield polarize that allways came in handy to keep me alive an do higher damage to corpus and now all her abilities are only useful if you use magnatize first using two abilities just to attack is a bit much so is the energy to cast it aswell imnot gonna play her anymore she's useless now rip mag

[MagPrime]

5 hours ago, (PS4)richardlyn57 said:

This is so bad i was the biggest mag fan i sent a support ticket thinking there was a error with my mag and was told of the rework  an got sent here to vent my frustrations basically why did they have to change shield polarize that allways came in handy to keep me alive an do higher damage to corpus and now all her abilities are only useful if you use magnatize first using two abilities just to attack is a bit much so is the energy to cast it aswell imnot gonna play her anymore she's useless now rip mag

Why would you use Magnetize first?  It shines when there's armor/shield shards for it to pick up.  SO, ideally, you'd be using Polarize first to create those shards and then using Magnetize to utilize them.

Also, did you change her build at all?  Now she benefits from duration because it makes Polarize travel further and Magnetize last longer, so it can gather more bonus damage.

[(PSN)cwoody2020]

Soooo disappointed! Mag is actually worse and less useful than before. This rework was NOT an improvement.

 

I was getting ready to suggest some possible fixes but I just don't see any redeeming qualities to this frame as is. Start over please.

[Oblitum]

Best way to fix i think would be to bring back the % scaling, my thought though, make it wipe their shields entirely on cast, deal damage to each target based on like .25/.30/.40/.50 of the shields they lost, and here's the easy fix part to keep her from just instagibing, make it not affected by power strength, boom, not useless polarize, but not OP as balls,

Edit, oh yeah armor, forgot, do the same thing,  though maybe give it a duration for armor, wipe it for like 4/5/6/7 seconds and hit the now armorless health for the scaling that was given for shield damage, still no power strength scaling, also just for funsies make the shielded people lose the ability to regen shields for the same period as these guy's lose their armor.

Edited June 17, 2016 by Oblitum
forgot something

[Hypernaut1]

Polarize is still only useful against Corpus. I use it for over shields. They could AT LEAST make an equivalent effect for grinneer.

My suggestion, temporary armor boost based on armor stripped for X seconds...at least

[kristophy]

Fix the sounds! give her scaling and please allow magnetize to work how it was supposed to in the original version. also my mag kills every thing on draco its my focus farming frame now XD.

Edited June 17, 2016 by kristophy

[(PSN)richardlyn57]

16 hours ago, Noamuth said:

Why would you use Magnetize first?  It shines when there's armor/shield shards for it to pick up.  SO, ideally, you'd be using Polarize first to create those shards and then using Magnetize to utilize them.

Also, did you change her build at all?  Now she benefits from duration because it makes Polarize travel further and Magnetize last longer, so it can gather more bonus damage.

Because thats what this person was saying while we were playing and when i used it I didn't kill much but the old shield polarize did and yes i had to change the build which messed her up in my opinion i dnt like it

[Lancars]

I don't find mag fun anymore. Everything needing to be revolved around magnetize kinda sucks. And the augment for overshielding doesn't seem to work anymore. I want the old mag back atleast i used 3 abilities instead of crutching my hopes on one.

[RealPandemonium]

1 hour ago, Lancars said:

I don't find mag fun anymore. Everything needing to be revolved around magnetize kinda sucks. And the augment for overshielding doesn't seem to work anymore. I want the old mag back atleast i used 3 abilities instead of crutching my hopes on one.

How have the other abilities changed?

[MagPrime]

I don't see how everything revolves around Magnetize.  I still use Polarize More than anything else.

[MagPrime]

4 hours ago, (PS4)richardlyn57 said:

Because thats what this person was saying while we were playing and when i used it I didn't kill much but the old shield polarize did and yes i had to change the build which messed her up in my opinion i dnt like it

Hmm.  Can I ask how you changed her build?  

[(XBOX)C0gnitive 0n3]

6 hours ago, Lancars said:

I don't find mag fun anymore. Everything needing to be revolved around magnetize kinda sucks. And the augment for overshielding doesn't seem to work anymore. I want the old mag back atleast i used 3 abilities instead of crutching my hopes on one.

I don't find her fun anymore, either. And, yes, I've found a Fracturing Crush build to suit my playstyle. Took it with me and went 65 minutes, solo, on Egeria, Ceres. I dunno....it. Wasn't. Fun. At all.

While Magnetize works great, I found that Polarize didn't leave enough "shards" to add to the damage on Magnetized enemies. Pull is Pull and Crush is a waste of an ability. DE changed Polarize to a flat damage - fine, we got over it - but it would've been nice if Crush was changed to do a percent damage to make it a little more viable. I'm not asking that it deal "God Tier" damage (I can only imagine the screams for "Nerf" out of this community) but anything is better than Crush in its current state - even WITH the augment mod.

[(PSN)A_SimpleName]

I think there should be 2 separate feedback here.

1. Those that don't like the rework because they think it is a "nerf"
2. Those that just don't like the rework because the new gameplay is not fun

I fall into the 2nd category. I'm well aware that the rework has its wonder, but I don't find it fun vs previous build. This is a matter of preference. My old Mag was an "on-the-go" and the new Mag is "grounded". I will be using Mag less often now because she no longer fit my gameplay.