Mag Rework Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[[DE]Danielle]

(HOLY WOW 40 PAGES) Thank you for all of your feedback! We appreciate you testing Mag after her rework and sharing your thoughts with the devs. 

[SourTaco]

4 minutes ago, [DE]Danielle said:

(HOLY WOW 40 PAGES) Thank you for all of your feedback! We appreciate you testing Mag after her rework and sharing your thoughts with the devs. 

Does this mean she will be getting more changes? :D

[Comradicus_Prime]

On 7/14/2016 at 0:50 AM, ExteriorJungle4 said:

So first thing is first, synergy. Ember has it, Saryn has it, Volt has it, does Mag have it?

Yes... Kinda... Not to any great extent though.

Her synergy focuses around Magnetize. Not a bad idea, but how much does it work? Pull, well, you get more damage. You don't want to pull into magnetize, because while you may kill the victim, all his buddies are now flying at you, and are gonna be more than a little mad when they stand up. Polarize. Those shards do S#&$ for damage. It's like pelting them with snow. Crush. If Crush were to affect all enemies within the bubble, that would be good synergy. Nope, just that one poor bastard you rooted in place.

In conclusion, her synergy is only better than before, because she has a negligible amount now, when she used to have none.

 

Removing spamming of number 2

Pull: Has not really changed at all, and greedy pull is still meh to use after the nerf

Magnetize: I mean, it's good. Useful even. The repeated nerfs have hurt it, but is still good.

Polarize: Nerfed to the ground, oh dear lord. It is only truly effective at lower levels. Shield Transference still works, just a bit slower.

Crush: Just hasn't changed at all really... Crush is still pretty meh. Not worth the cost for a glorified stun that doesn't work half the time.

Yeah, still just hitting number 2 all the time. That failed.

 

Make her more than a Corpus Killer: Kinda

Magnetize was a buff to Bullet Attractor... But it does the same thing in concept. Slightly different in practice against standard and heavy enemies with the locking in place. So, on paper it worked to diversify what she could fight.

Problem is, she could already do that. It cost more energy, and you often did not get nearly as good of results, but BA was a good enough ability and was very useful in taking down bosses. So, while on paper she has been made more effective against all factions, that is only because Polarize was nerfed to oblivion and we have no choice but to use Magnetize now, because it is the only reliable damage output and just so happens to not discriminate between factions.

 

So, my end conclusion. No, this was not an acceptable change, this was a nerf. Her synergy is pathetic, her top ability got savagely beaten with the nerf stick, and her new "Best Ability" is something she could already do, just made cheaper and a bit more effective. A good rework for her would be like something already listed in this thread. I believe Dracario listed it out and I gave my 2 cents on it. But it more or less goes as follows, almost all credit to Dracario for bringing this up btw. Anything bold will be my current ideas for edits.

 

Pull: Kept the same, but now if aimed at Magnetize, enemies are sucked in. Extended with range.

Magnetize: The suction on it needs buffing to actually keep enemies from walking straight through like there is nothing there. Make it pull more with power strength and from farther away with Power range. Different weapon types have different effects. Hitscan = Direct Damage. Beam = Higher Damage over Time. Projectile = Innate Punch through. Make Magnetize castable on surfaces as well as on enemies, and fix the bug where if you cast on a target and the target dies prior to the animation ending, you spend energy for nothing.

Polarize: Put it back with scaling. (At the current cost, that's a no brainer. No need to double nerf by increasing cost and massively limiting effectiveness). Make it so power strength increases the percentage at a hard cap of 70% (This gives room to have an aura against armor/shields to perma-strip AND the amount of damage dealt by the now scaling blast has a good chance of finishing off fodder units). The amount of Power Strength needed should be about 150%, needing only a Transient Fortitude. Shards are dropped based upon every 5-10% of armor/shields stripped. Shards then interact with...

Crush: Now crush has a system like Inaros' Scarab Swarm. Mag now picks up the shards as her new passive, giving her a bonus to her armor by either a flat number or percentage. I would have it so that shards obtained from stripped shields count towards shields rather than armor. Note, this is normal shields, not overshields. These shards are stored on the Mag, and when she uses crush, those shards go towards increasing the damage on Crush against all enemies. This damage boost can be additive, or multiplicative. Every cast of Crush will remove 25% of Mag's shard pool, with a counter at the top of the screen like Chroma's, telling her how much bonus to shields and armor she has.

Passive: She absorbs shards now for that defensive boost. The 5 meter bullet jump suction is pathetic, and what is a Mag to use this for if she had either; Carrier, a popular sentinel, or Greedy Pull, an augment mod made just for her that does the exact same thing, but better.

Misc: Buff her max energy. As a caster frame she should not have such low energy reserves. I would put it to the same level as Saryn, though the other proposal is 500 energy with Max Flow. Not Primed Flow, normal Flow.

 

Now, this kind of rework is positive. Her passive is bad, so change it and give that tiny girl some protection and bonus damage against those who think it would be a good idea to hit on her. Her synergy is buffed, as now Pull massively aids Magnetize, and Polarize props up Crush. She is no longer "Press 2 to win" because while that would be effective, by pressing two and then one and then firing into the bubble, she can be even more effective. Crush is buffed so that it feels like an ultimate attack, capable of crushing squads in one fell swoop with the right support. Polarize is brought back from the dead to be useful again. Pull is given new life, and Magnetize... Works rather than being a buggy mess that I fire my Lanka in the general direction of.

 

The rework we have is an overall nerf, this proposed one is one that I fully support. She is back to her status as one of the Queens of CC, but now is not able to nuke the map in one go. A good Mag has to earn her daily serving of nukes.

 

Sorry this is so long, and thank you to anyone whom read this far, even if you completely disagree.

I am seeing a lot of traffic on this, due to the addition of the Brozime video. That's good. But, I still want to point out that the thread itself has developed some sort of a rework, and it is my opinion that it is worth examining and comparing. We don't have to just follow the video, we can create ideas, and edit them too.

 

Sorry I had to quote it, not sure how to link it just yet on the forums.

[tnccs215]

1 hour ago, [DE]Danielle said:

(HOLY WOW 40 PAGES) Thank you for all of your feedback! We appreciate you testing Mag after her rework and sharing your thoughts with the devs. 

We are thy humble servants!

[Dracario]

1 hour ago, [DE]Danielle said:

(HOLY WOW 40 PAGES) Thank you for all of your feedback! We appreciate you testing Mag after her rework and sharing your thoughts with the devs. 

Mag is very important to Warframe, especially me, I started Warframe playing Mag. Still loved how she was pre-rework and still love her today! She needs more love.

[Aquasurge]

8 hours ago, SourTaco said:

Does this mean she will be getting more changes? :D

it's on every megathread

[Circle_of_Psi]

9 hours ago, SourTaco said:

Does this mean she will be getting more changes? :D

lol don't get your hopes up, the fat chances of this happing..even tho she DOES need it..

[Burnthesteak87]

Mmmm what about converting Shards into armor or overshield pickups for both Mag and Teammates?

With Pull the only problem is Range is mandatory to drag enemies into Polarize.
(Plus the energy on kill is totally nonsense).

Also about Crush:
 

Quote

Cast Crush#4, Mag enters a stanced state ala Mesa's Pacemaker, projecting a large force field around herself. She can move meanwhile. Or not. Whatever.
Enemies caught in the range during the cast or enemies which enters it (for one reason or the other) gets immobilized and suspended ala Bastille. Plus, those enemies are kept inside the force field ala Nova's Antimatter Drop and will follow Mag.

Now, what Crush stance does, exactly like Peacemaker: Right Click load and disposes an enemy (caugh in the force field) in the guise of a projectile. Left Click shoots that enemy ala Soul Punch toward your crosshair.

Premature or intentional ending of Crush (interrupting the channeling by pressing#4 again) executes the trapped enemies exactly as the actual Crush does.

Keep in consideration that you could also combo other skills:

#1 Pull a group of enemies in the force field, then dispose of them as you wish;

#3 Bullet attractor on an heavy target, then pull inside the force field to use it as a living shield.

This way you could have different combos with 3 skills.

What about throwing that damage-loaded-Magnetized enemy right into a group of enemies?

 

Edited July 21, 2016 by Burnthesteak87

[Dracario]

15 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

(HOLY WOW 40 PAGES) Thank you for all of your feedback! We appreciate you testing Mag after her rework and sharing your thoughts with the devs. 

Also the players have suggested a slight rework of her abilities. Hopefully these sound fair.

 

[robbybe01234]

15 hours ago, SourTaco said:

Does this mean she will be getting more changes? :D

Not a chance.  They just like seeing the attention. 

 

16 hours ago, tnccs215 said:

Said it before, will say it again: I'd rather have Fracturing Crush become default than make polarize purely percentual. With the right combination, you can strip clean the armor of level 140 corrupted heavy gunners. It's more energy costly, but more rewarding and interesting.

additionally, I don't understand the fuss about her passive. It is both useful and makes sense, without being overpowered. Perfect in my eyes.

And his proposed Crush substitute... Eh, nah. We already have enough CC nukes around. No need for more cheese.

Additionally, I have to say that Magnetize is nowhere near Limbo-level of annoying. In some cases, it is less annoying than snow globe. All this because, even though you can't shoot through it, you still can contribute to the overall DoT and explosion damage of the bubble. Seems pretty good to me.

You gotta raise your standards bro.  There are so clearly improvements to be made.  Her passive is not at all perfect, cause every frame can do it better than her. 

You know, you could think frames have a theme when they are made, a personality or word used to sum up their concept.  I'm certain that word was indecisive.  It's like the designer was reminded, "now make sure that sense of confusion comes across when they use that, oh, and that one too."

Edited July 20, 2016 by robbybe01234

[Dracario]

1 minute ago, robbybe01234 said:

Not a chance.  They just like seeing the attention. 

 

You gotta raise your standards bro.  There are so clearly improvements to be made.  Her passive is not at all perfect, cause every frame can do it better than her. 

You know, you could think frames have a theme when they are made, a personality or word used to sum up their concept.  I'm certain that word was indecisive.  It's like the designer was reminded, "now make sure that sense of confusion come across when they use that, oh, and that one too."

No frame other than Mag and Carrier can draw items in. I'd say increase the item pull range to at least 10m. And improvements, yes there are some to be made but i don't think DE has the time nor the resources to remake her kit according to the video. These tweaks to her already existing kit can be easily modified for fluency and syngery.

As for her theme? Mag pulling in items is definitely fine. Passive of item pulling is better than the augment Greedy Pull. No one wants to sacrifice a mod slot to pull items that ultimately does not affect teammates (quite frankly that's fine Mag+Mesa Combo is a big no no and if Greedy pull was to be restored to its default then Mag+Banshee would be a thing). Magnetizing and attraction is Mag's theme. She's fine thematically.

[robbybe01234]

3 minutes ago, Dracario said:

No frame other than Mag and Carrier can draw items in. I'd say increase the item pull range to at least 10m. And improvements, yes there are some to be made but i don't think DE has the time nor the resources to remake her kit according to the video. These tweaks to her already existing kit can be easily modified for fluency and syngery.

As for her theme? Mag pulling in items is definitely fine. Passive of item pulling is better than the augment Greedy Pull. No one wants to sacrifice a mod slot to pull items that ultimately does not affect teammates (quite frankly that's fine Mag+Mesa Combo is a big no no and if Greedy pull was to be restored to its default then Mag+Banshee would be a thing). Magnetizing and attraction is Mag's theme. She's fine thematically.

Sorry man, you missed the point completely.  Also, you forgot about cosmo crush. 

[Astery86]

a bit late to provide my feedback due to SoTR happened and I have to try things out again for Mag, especially I just got her when Mag P got released again.

pull- since the rework focuses a lot of synergy to magnetize, I don't understand why is it so frustrating to pull enemies into your magnetize bubble. It more often overshoots or just land randomly around. Can we at least make it synergies better with magnetize that will pull them into the bubble if you cast pull from the bubble or the bubble is between you and the pulling enemy?

 

magnetize- the suction to pull enemies to the center is way way too weak, unless enemies are just standing still to start off with, everything will just walk through it like nothing...the only reliable way is to cast magnetize on every enemies around that area..and that is pretty pathetic.

post nullifier bubble buff magnetize's usability is even more substantially lowered when nullies are possible to spawn in missions which kills her bubble immediately  and magnetize is just about the only reason Mag has for using her, so DE please.

polarize and crush has been discussed by fellow Tennos and I don't have anything to add for the moment.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Astery86

[Dracario]

1 hour ago, Astery86 said:

a bit late to provide my feedback due to SoTR happened and I have to try things out again for Mag, especially I just got her when Mag P got released again.

pull- since the rework focuses a lot of synergy to magnetize, I don't understand why is it so frustrating to pull enemies into your magnetize bubble. It more often overshoots or just land randomly around. Can we at least make it synergies better with magnetize that will pull them into the bubble if you cast pull from the bubble or the bubble is between you and the pulling enemy?

 

magnetize- the suction to pull enemies to the center is way way too weak, unless enemies are just standing still to start off with, everything will just walk through it like nothing...the only reliable way is to cast magnetize on every enemies around that area..and that is pretty pathetic.

post nullifier bubble buff magnetize's usability is even more substantially lowered when nullies are possible to spawn in missions which kills her bubble immediately  and magnetize is just about the only reason Mag has for using her, so DE please.

polarize and crush has been discussed by fellow Tennos and I don't have anything to add for the moment.

This already been addressed in a recent rework suggestion.

 

 

[TheLexiConArtist]

On 19/07/2016 at 10:41 PM, ExteriorJungle4 said:

I am seeing a lot of traffic on this, due to the addition of the Brozime video. That's good. But, I still want to point out that the thread itself has developed some sort of a rework, and it is my opinion that it is worth examining and comparing. We don't have to just follow the video, we can create ideas, and edit them too.

 

Sorry I had to quote it, not sure how to link it just yet on the forums.

"The thread itself" has had many suggestions, you're just presenting your personal one.

16 hours ago, Dracario said:

Also the players have suggested a slight rework of her abilities. Hopefully these sound fair

2 hours ago, Dracario said:

This already been addressed in a recent rework suggestion.

I'm questioning if you're just a sockpuppet/friend/clanmate of the same with how much you're pushing it too.

 

 

Focus on fixing Magnetise's negative bugs first, then consider any other changes, of which we really only need minimal tweaks to fix up the QOL to make things work out just fine.

[Dracario]

4 hours ago, EDYinnit said:

"The thread itself" has had many suggestions, you're just presenting your personal one.

I'm questioning if you're just a sockpuppet/friend/clanmate of the same with how much you're pushing it too.

 

 

Focus on fixing Magnetise's negative bugs first, then consider any other changes, of which we really only need minimal tweaks to fix up the QOL to make things work out just fine.

We're not. I proposed the initial rework suggestion and then he refined it. And yes Magnetise's bugs need fixing and I also agree it needs to be addressed first before the rework suggestions

[tnccs215]

I cannot understand this community's fetish with reworks. Sometimes a thing needs tweaks, not to be rebuild. And Mag is one of those, not to mention how the bug fixing will make those tweaks even less important.

Also, @Dracario, you quoted what is an extremely vague and unsupported comment on this thread, with a lot of opinion and little to back it up. I don't think it was a good example to use.

[Dracario]

23 hours ago, tnccs215 said:

I cannot understand this community's fetish with reworks. Sometimes a thing needs tweaks, not to be rebuild. And Mag is one of those, not to mention how the bug fixing will make those tweaks even less important.

Also, @Dracario, you quoted what is an extremely vague and unsupported comment on this thread, with a lot of opinion and little to back it up. I don't think it was a good example to use.

Apologies, my sleep schedule is broken so my posts are filled with exhausted opinions.

[Death_Master_]

In some time after rework Mag got a bug(or a huge silent nerf or both) - magnetize bubble doesn't charge properly as it said in description.

With this change there is no fun anymore playing Mag(as she can't kill anyone on mid levels).

[(XBOX)Ivan of Jupiter]

On July 21, 2016 at 10:22 AM, tnccs215 said:

I cannot understand this community's fetish with reworks. Sometimes a thing needs tweaks, not to be rebuild. And Mag is one of those, not to mention how the bug fixing will make those tweaks even less important.

Also, @Dracario, you quoted what is an extremely vague and unsupported comment on this thread, with a lot of opinion and little to back it up. I don't think it was a good example to use.

People like to think that their ideals can be put into a game. Someone makes a rework and maybe DE will take it into account. It's doubtful, but possible, and that's what drives people to make these suggestions. Personally I'd rather expand upon existing powes than trash a current one and make my own idea. Take Crush for example, widely regarded as the worst ability in Mags kit. Should it be replaced with a new ability? Maybe, but how about we comb over the variety of ways to improve it first? Rework ideas only go so far before it's an entirely new frame.

Edited July 22, 2016 by (XB1)DRG JupiterIvan
Spelling

[Marine027]

13 hours ago, (XB1)DRG JupiterIvan said:

People like to think that their ideals can be put into a game. Someone makes a rework and maybe DE will take it into account. It's doubtful, but possible, and that's what drives people to make these suggestions. Personally I'd rather expand upon existing powes than trash a current one and make my own idea. Take Crush for example, widely regarded as the worst ability in Mags kit. Should it be replaced with a new ability? Maybe, but how about we comb over the variety of ways to improve it first? Rework ideas only go so far before it's an entirely new frame.

People sp underestimate this power sadly, i was in lvl 100 sortie defense against corpus, peopel around delt with nullifiers while i used magnetize to shut down narrow passages, poalrize i nbetween to remove soem shields (strogner shields was the sortie condition also) and crush over and over because i have a energy efficency build, keeping every enemy aroundin heavy CC with the crush augment stunning right after adn remvoing armor. It is not always about damage guys, this is the main problem in this community, straight numbers, but still managed oddly to still killed those lvl 100 corpus with like 3 times crush and a polarize in between.

[Death_Master_]

Ohh, sadly bubble was nerfed to the ground soon after rework and now only suitable as defense that deals nearly no damage.

Only suitable weapon for it is now Lanka but i don't really like charge-to shoot weapons.

It was fun when stream weapons could charge it really nice but as nearly all fun in WF it ends fast. :(

Fun:

Spoiler

 

No fun:

Spoiler

 

 

Edited July 24, 2016 by Death_Master_

[tnccs215]

4 hours ago, Death_Master_ said:

Ohh, sadly bubble was nerfed to the ground soon after rework and now only suitable as defense that deals nearly no damage.

Only suitable weapon for it is now Lanka but i don't really like charge-to shoot weapons.

It was fun when stream weapons could charge it really nice but as nearly all fun in WF it ends fast. :(

Fun:

  Hide contents

 

No fun:

  Hide contents

 

 

I'd say you are wrong, but there are around 25 pages doing that for me. Go read them.

[Death_Master_]

1 hour ago, tnccs215 said:

I'd say you are wrong, but there are around 25 pages doing that for me. Go read them.

Did you see videos? There is a problem right now that cuts fun for me.

Yeah, i can charge it up very slowly with other weapons(like veykor marelok) but it isn't that much fun as it was on my first video!

Also i upped and fromaed beam weapons for Mag alone and now they made them useless.

[RealPandemonium]

55 minutes ago, Death_Master_ said:

Did you see videos? There is a problem right now that cuts fun for me.

Yeah, i can charge it up very slowly with other weapons(like veykor marelok) but it isn't that much fun as it was on my first video!

Also i upped and fromaed beam weapons for Mag alone and now they made them useless.

Shotguns (along with all multishot) were already bugged and the beam weapon fix made them do 1/25 the listed DPS, which can also be considered a bug.  Don't complain about nerfs; report the bugs in the proper forum.