Dev Workshop Part 4: Hotfix 18.13.2 information & more!

[Issxi]

I love how you adjusted the frames according to feedback but you ignored all Saryn feedback. DE, you're dead to me. You can't even love all your Warframes and make them equally as useful.

[Fifield]

1 minute ago, keen211 said:

 Using restores instead of trinity is clunky but it allows you to bring another frame such as Vauban who can effectively lock the entire map.

Errr...  Vauban needs energy to lock the entire map.... from Trinity.   Stupidly OP abilities like this generally need Trinity, which is why she's the most OP.

[SamuraiPizza]

11 minutes ago, Hellmaker2004 said:

My problem with the intended change, if i understand it correctly is the mechanic change scaling from power strength instead of how much you healed.

This would change the ability from a responsive ability with risk and reward design, into a automatic cast every XX second.

You make a fair point, sir. I will concede. 

:)

 

The point of my post was to voice my opposition to the cost associated with the spin blind.

Edited June 1, 2016 by Legion216

[keen211]

Just now, Fifield said:

Errr...  Vauban needs energy to lock the entire map.... from Trinity.

...Or from energy restores. Are you even paying attention?

[TheTrueLordToby]

I will probably get a lot of backlash for saying this, but I feel like it may be something people overlook. Trinity is the Healer support frame, where as frames like Oberon, Equinox, Nezha, etc. have healing as a sub thing, its not the only thing they specialize in. Oberon can still Smite and Reckoning enemies, Equinox has a Day form which is all about damage, and Nezha has Divine Spears and Firewalker. Trinity's abilities are meant to protect her and her teammates, there is no massive damage attack in her power kit. Sidenote: Removing EV won't be the wonder fix for balance, we still have Energy Pads, Arcane Energize, and Zenurik. As much as it is powerful, I see no issue with an energy restoration ability on a frame, as powers are a major part of battle and a necessity against the growing enemy numbers.

Furthermore, I believe the range should either be reverted or should scale, and you can alter the damage resistance how you like with that, because there are several mission types in where that range is just plain inefficient. Trinity at least with my play style was about saving someone who was about to fall when you weren't close enough to aid them in the fight. Spy, Interceptions (most notably T4 Interception), Excavation, Sabotage, Survival, and Raids are all making the range cap unreasonably punishing (especially in LoR when you cannot move.) In addition, unless the Healer Archwing comes out soon, this makes JV a nightmare for whoever is outside, as you will have no help from a blessing, and regardless of Archwing you will die fast to all the stuff going on out there.

Aside from Trinity, the nerf to Mirage was expected, however true LoS does not work very well in this game, as the environments are often very cluttered so next to nothing will get blinded. I am not exactly sure how I would change this, but as an ultimate ability it is in a rather sad condition. Also Sleight of Hand just needs to be replaced, again not exactly sure what to replace it with, but it really is just a waste of a power slot right now. 

Passives are also quite lackluster for some frames, Trinity's is almost unnoticeable, Oberon's is limited to the grineer faction missions, and Mag's is rendered pointless by carrier. Overall I see the next few weeks being incredibly busy with constant changes, whether or not anything discussed here is changed.

[ShardsSuperior]

The proposed Trinity changes are terrible. They reverse two years of Trinity traveling from a proactive invincibility frame to the true reactive healer she should be.

[Fifield]

2 minutes ago, --Valkyr said:

Trinity is a support frame, it does not have any CC at all, her having 99% reduction Bless is all she is capable of survival.

I get that you're a Trinity lover and want to keep her stupidly OP, but this is your sole counterargument and it's completely incorrect.

Firstly, she can completely disable 2 enemies, including some bosses.  Secondly, 99% DR is invulnerability.  Thirdly, her 3rd skill gives her an extra 75% DR.
Lastly, she's the only frame who can provide energy for the strongest, gamebreaking CC in the game.

[keen211]

1 minute ago, TheTrueLordToby said:

I will probably get a lot of backlash for saying this, but I feel like it may be something people overlook. Trinity is the Healer support frame, where as frames like Oberon, Equinox, Nezha, etc. have healing as a sub thing, its not the only thing they specialize in. Oberon can still Smite and Reckoning enemies, Equinox has a Day form which is all about damage, and Nezha has Divine Spears and Firewalker. Trinity's abilities are meant to protect her and her teammates, there is no massive damage attack in her power kit. Sidenote: Removing EV won't be the wonder fix for balance, we still have Energy Pads, Arcane Energize, and Zenurik. As much as it is powerful, I see no issue with an energy restoration ability on a frame, as powers are a major part of battle and a necessity against the growing enemy numbers.

Furthermore, I believe the range should either be reverted or should scale, and you can alter the damage resistance how you like with that, because there are several mission types in where that range is just plain inefficient. Trinity at least with my play style was about saving someone who was about to fall when you weren't close enough to aid them in the fight. Spy, Interceptions (most notably T4 Interception), Excavation, Sabotage, Survival, and Raids are all making the range cap unreasonably punishing (especially in LoR when you cannot move.) In addition, unless the Healer Archwing comes out soon, this makes JV a nightmare for whoever is outside, as you will have no help from a blessing, and regardless of Archwing you will die fast to all the stuff going on out there.

Aside from Trinity, the nerf to Mirage was expected, however true LoS does not work very well in this game, as the environments are often very cluttered so next to nothing will get blinded. I am not exactly sure how I would change this, but as an ultimate ability it is in a rather sad condition. Also Sleight of Hand just needs to be replaced, again not exactly sure what to replace it with, but it really is just a waste of a power slot right now. 

Passives are also quite lackluster for some frames, Trinity's is almost unnoticeable, Oberon's is limited to the grineer faction missions, and Mag's is rendered pointless by carrier. Overall I see the next few weeks being incredibly busy with constant changes, whether or not anything discussed here is changed.

 Backlash? Honestly you hit the nail in the head with this post. Would give you a hundred rep if I could.

[Fifield]

11 minutes ago, keen211 said:

Because trin is niche for draco and other comps as it saves you energy plates. I'm saying they are better overall, not better at doing trin's job.

So why does nobody want one in their squads, yet 30-40% of squads (excluding Draco) want a Trinity?

I'm done debating this with people who are so attached to Trinity they'll never ever recognise a counterargument.

[Zantek2]

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Trinity: Blessing: Damage Resistance is no longer calculated based on an Average, but instead a flat value simply capped at 75% (which can be achieved via use of Strength mods). We are working on making the squad UI show who is in range with the Tenno Affinity markers, it might not be ready for 18.13.2.

Alright, I'm cool with a flat reduction. I think now the only thing that's needed is that Blessing scales with range, and it'd be perfect. I mean, if it's a flat damage reduction, and has a limited range, it should at least scale with range mods.

[Punchedface]

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Enemy Plasma Grenades:

 

 

Before enemy Plasma Grenades explode, they will live for 3 seconds after coming to a rest on the ground. Plasma Grenades can now be shot in air or when they are on the ground. When an enemy Plasma Grenade is shot and killed, it will explode and damage any enemies in range with no damage to you. A Tenno with a keen ear will be able to identify these threats and counter them with an accurate shot before it's too late.

Well that's +1 for Ignis as a utility weapon

[keen211]

1 minute ago, Fifield said:

So why does nobody want one in their squads, yet 30-40% of squads (excluding Draco) want a Trinity?

I'm done debating this with people who are so attached to Trinity they'll never ever recognise a counterargument.

 I literally JUST explained it to you! I'm going to quote myself:

 "Because trin is niche for draco and other comps as it saves you energy plates. I'm saying they are better overall, not better at doing trin's job."

 I'm not attached to trin at all, I'm attached to good game design.

[Aldisun]

Excalibur's slide attack with EB is still a bad change. I would rather have a regular slide attack with no energy cost and blind, than the little baby blind which wastes energy. 

[TheTrueLordToby]

1 minute ago, Fifield said:

So why does nobody want one in their squads, yet 30-40% of squads (excluding Draco) want a Trinity?

I'm done debating this with people who are so attached to Trinity they'll never ever recognise a counterargument.

I think it may either be just something ingrained in them that "hey Trinity is a meta frame we should ask for her" or just not understanding that you can use other frames like Equinox for support and healing, Equinox being one of the most versatile frames having 2 sets of effects for abilities depending on her form. That or perhaps I am looking too deeply into this and people just want Trinity because energy vampire keeps the team up, as several frames have a heavy reliance on their powers due to their squishiness, and being unable to keep up the power use will lead to almost certain death. Their are other ways to obtain energy sure, but Trinity is certainly cheaper than say a full set of Arcane Energize, and allows more different focus trees to be used than Zenurik. ^{even though Zenurik is the only thing 90% of the playerbase uses regardless...}

[Fifield]

15 minutes ago, TheTrueLordToby said:

Trinity's abilities are meant to protect her and her teammates, there is no massive damage attack in her power kit.

Unless she takes a Tonkor.... Damage isn't even a primary role since weapons outdamage powers.

The only thing Trinity lacks is mass CC.  For this she gets a monopoly on energy provision in the game and has the best damage reduction, not to mention the best heal and best overshields too.

14 minutes ago, keen211 said:

Sidenote: Removing EV won't be the wonder fix for balance, we still have Energy Pads, Arcane Energize, and Zenurik.

True.  This is why I wrote the following suggestion:

 

20 minutes ago, TheTrueLordToby said:

As much as it is powerful, I see no issue with an energy restoration ability on a frame, as powers are a major part of battle and a necessity against the growing enemy numbers.

Indeed but energy restore must be done in such a way it encourages playing like a space ninja rather than standing still pressing 4 for half an hour.

Secondly, Trinity should not have a monopoly on it.

[LornMind]

The changes look quite good; 75% constant DR achievable through high power strength is a pretty good middle-ground between what we have on live and what we had pre-patch. Granted, with how enemy scaling functions, it's effectively meaningless because 25% of all of your shields, health and energy is still all of your shields, health and energy with the way the scaling functions...

BUT, you are also addressing the problems enemies have with damage and EHP, which means that the 75% DR will mean a great deal (I hope), and I'm incredibly grateful you've listened to the community about it. I'm not you guys, so I have no idea what sort of scaling you're working out, but I was personally tossing around the idea of linear scaling with a relatively strong positive slope in my head. I'm looking forward to seeing what you guys do.

[(PSN)toaha48]

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

With the power of all your Draco runs, we have intercepted this message:

 You have fought long and hard for our cause - learning to master many Warframes and Weapons in your Arsenal. Take this gift of Forma as a token of my appreciation for your willingness to bend the will of your equipment to suit your needs on the battlefield.

The Lotus.

 

does this mean Draco my not be there for long??????????? (everyone looks at the screen for a response)

[Neo3602]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)toaha48 said:

does this mean Draco my not be there for long??????????? (everyone looks at the screen for a response)

 

Don't worry even if DE removed Draco people would just find another mission where they can do the same thing.

[Evanescent]

4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

 

Before enemy Plasma Grenades explode, they will live for 3 seconds after coming to a rest on the ground. Plasma Grenades can now be shot in air or when they are on the ground. When an enemy Plasma Grenade is shot and killed, it will explode and damage any enemies in range with no damage to you. A Tenno with a keen ear will be able to identify these threats and counter them with an accurate shot before it's too late.

 

great, but what about people with hearing impairment? :(

Will it really be audible i the chaos of noises and ability sounds that is a tower defense?

Quote

Ballistas:

 

 

Ballistas will have telegraphing when they are winding up to fire off a round from their deadly Vulkars. An observant Tenno will be better able to identify and prioritize these threats.

nice, but will the telegraphing be visual or auditory? And how visible will it be in the dark grineer tilesets with the flash of warframe powers and enemy attacks?

Quote

 

Hyekka Masters: 

 

 

For now this is as simple as fixing the Hyekka Master’s Ignis dealing damage through walls.

 

Very nice, maybe also stop them from damaging Limbo in the rift with their Ignis and settng the ground on fire attack? Same thing for napalms. The thing is at higher levels if you're even grazed by them you're dead. Can we add rolling to remove fire, toxin, ice procs? Maybe also slash. RIght now there's no counterplay to having something procced on you which in higher levels becomes fatal.

Quote

 

 

Long term:

The bigger picture is the way enemy damage and EHP scales in the higher level content. We are discussing a few options at this time on the way scaling works, but ultimately we will preserve increased difficulty over time that demands a 'be careful and get out or get killed' set of stakes the longer you spend in a mission. The long term of this will demand a greater Dev Workshop as we make decisions on the topic - more to come here.

 

 

Warframe Feedback:

Excellent, just make the stakes fair and approachable. In the end the game should be urging the player on to take on challenges, not deterring them away. This is why you have the current frustrating situation in Warframe.

I'd like to bring up the example of the crystal lizard in the beginning of dark souls 3. It's an enemy the game actually goes out of its way to tell you not to fight, but there is also the curiosity built into the world that makes you want to go and take it on. It's very tough to kill it with your starting equipment, but it's doable and when you do it, it nets you a hefty reward for your early game- a titanite scale.

We should have our endgame be like that. Not impossible without gimmicks, or specific pieces of gear, but doable with team-play and team co-ordination or simple skill and your wits.

Quote

 

We've reviewed and made some changes to the following Warframe abilities. Everything is subject to change pending testing, but here are our current plans for Hotfix 18.13.2. Please note we also have a stack of fixes coming, but those are rooted in bug squashing and not principle design so aren't covered here.

 

 

Trinity: Blessing: Damage Resistance is no longer calculated based on an Average, but instead a flat value simply capped at 75% (which can be achieved via use of Strength mods). We are working on making the squad UI show who is in range with the Tenno Affinity markers, it might not be ready for 18.13.2.

I think having a ring around her like the hysteria ring on Valkyr solves it easily? When no-one is in it turns red and changes colour based on the number of people inside:

red-orange with 1 team-mate, orange-blue with 2 teammates, and blue-green when everyone is inside.

Quote

 

 

Valkyr: Hysteria: Each kill reduces her Hysteria Aura by 1 meter, the aura will continue to grow but killing frequently will keep it tight around you so you can control its range.

Sounds good, but I maintain my stance that she should be buffed a bit and her invilnerability should be removed completely, replaced by damage resistance that ramps up with subsequent kills.

Quote

The Forma'ing

 

 

We've received word from the Lotus that everyone will have 7 days following the launch of 18.13.2 to claim a free Forma via inbox simply by logging in.

 

 

With the power of all your Draco runs, we have intercepted this message:

 

 

 You have fought long and hard for our cause - learning to master many Warframes and Weapons in your Arsenal. Take this gift of Forma as a token of my appreciation for your willingness to bend the will of your equipment to suit your needs on the battlefield.

 

 

The Lotus.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks you very much.

 

For the love of god, remove energy cost on slide blind. JUST DO IT. No, just no, just do it. There is no reason whatsoever to put an energy cost on it, at this point I'd rather just use a proper blind.

 

PLEASE LET EXCALIBUR, WUKONG  AND VALKYR USE THE SHADOW DEBT MODS. EXALTED WEAPONS NEED SOMETHING TO KEEP THEM A TIER ABOVE NORMAL WEAPONS. THERE IS NO REASON NOT TO DO SO NOW THAT THE WARFRAMES HAVE BEEN ADJUSTED.

Sorry for the caps, but bringing it to you guys' attention.

 

Thanks!

Edited June 1, 2016 by Evanescent

[Vevy]

Nice :D

[Hixlysss]

Why does Chroma still not have a passive? Something simple like resistance to elemental damage types he is matched up to, or bonus damage of that damage type on weapons...Something other than "He can change his energy color to change the damage type of two powers and the ability of elemental ward." which...isn't a passive. There was a reason the devs gave Equinox 2 passives(equilibrium and energy color changes if you spawn in mission as light or day) and Inaros has 2 passives(sarcophagus vampire and finishers give back %20 of health.) So...why not Chroma to have something that is actually useful in mission?

[--DSP--]

24 minutes ago, Fifield said:

So why does nobody want one in their squads, yet 30-40% of squads (excluding Draco) want a Trinity?

I'm done debating this with people who are so attached to Trinity they'll never ever recognise a counterargument.

Because Trinity is literally only for supporting?

You don't see people calling for a Valkyr while she is completely OP (though she don't deserve such nerf.)

 

FYI: I never tell ppl to use trinity unless it's a raid. I don't even use her much myself. But the nerf completely ruined her point.

Edited June 1, 2016 by --Valkyr

[(PSN)toaha48]

Just now, Neo3602 said:

 

Don't worry even if DE removed Draco people would just find another mission where they can do the same thing.

but it would be the same I know there were other places to go in the past but I started with Draco

[ShardsSuperior]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)toaha48 said:

but it would be the same I know there were other places to go in the past but I started with Draco

I miss Xini. :'(

What would you really miss about Draco, though?

[(PSN)CrackFoxLegend]

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

You have fought long and hard for our cause - learning to level, level, and relevel many Warframes and Weapons in your Arsenal. Take this gift of one single Forma (yes that's a single or uno if you're Spanish speaking) as a token of my appreciation for your willingness to bend over and kiss the dirt.

 

The Lotus.

I mean, you could have left the forma out of it and it would be far less insulting. This isn't about the changes for me, this is about the fact that tons of your loyal, dedicated fans voiced their opinions and you said "nope, don't care, now here's a forma. Shut up please." This is a page right out of a cod franchise book and that annoys me greatly.

I bought the PlayStation 4 brand new and downloaded the game because a friend told me about it, didn't play it for awhile and then shortly before returning to the PS3 for about 7 months, I tried the game out. It was fun and I'm not even sure how far I got before putting it up to go back to PS3. When I came back I started learning a lot more about the game and started watching devstreams. I loved the game and have been playing it ever since. You've changed, undone changes, and changed again although not always in the right places I would say. Sometimes I didn't like said changes and sometimes I did. I never had a major issue though because most of the time they were not that unreasonable. 

I don't think your changes are that unreasonable this time either but the fact that you just told your fans that you don't care what they think because you know what they want out of the game better than them in far more words that sound less hurtful makes me realize that, in fact you don't. Wow, thanks for the three fun years. I hope when I download this game a year from now, that it could restore my trust in DE but I imagine it won't. Who am I kidding, I'll probably be banned for this