Saryn feels weak - Thoughts?

[LSG501]

Ok... I'm a newer player to the game and just got Saryn and a few others.  While I don't personally think she's as good as my starter frame excal for my personal taste/approach I don't think she's a bad frame if used/set up right.  Obviously being a new player I don't have experience of the highest levels so my view might change as I go on but for newer players it's not a bad frame as such.

Now I do have a few issues with Saryn but it's the same issue I have with Frost in that unlike Ember (I don't have this so can't comment on it) they're affected by their own 'element', toxins on Saryn and cold on Frost.  Shouldn't they both be unaffected or at least have reduced effect when hit by their own elements, I would have thought that would have been an obvious passive for these two.

[Gurpgork]

2 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

Now I do have a few issues with Saryn but it's the same issue I have with Frost in that unlike Ember (I don't have this so can't comment on it) they're affected by their own 'element', toxins on Saryn and cold on Frost.  Shouldn't they both be unaffected or at least have reduced effect when hit by their own elements, I would have thought that would have been an obvious passive for these two.

Snakes are only immune to their own poison and Firebenders have burn scars. Having control over something does not make them outright immune to it. Plus those passives are very generic and expectable. In fact, it would be a useless passive on Saryn, since she can shed status procs with Molt, and that's not limited to Toxin. This isn't Pokémon; proficiency with something and immunity to it are two entirely different phenomena. 

[LSG501]

19 minutes ago, Gurpgork said:

Snakes are only immune to their own poison and Firebenders have burn scars. Having control over something does not make them outright immune to it. Plus those passives are very generic and expectable. In fact, it would be a useless passive on Saryn, since she can shed status procs with Molt, and that's not limited to Toxin. This isn't Pokémon; proficiency with something and immunity to it are two entirely different phenomena. 

But then you could argue the opposite because of Ember who gains 35% power strength and regenerates 10 points of energy for every second she is ablaze.  Embers core 'element' enhances her rather than hinders her. 

[Gurpgork]

4 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

But then you could argue the opposite because of Ember who gains 35% power strength and regenerates 10 points of energy for every second she is ablaze.  Embers core 'element' enhances her rather than hinders her. 

Actually, it enhances and hinders her, since she still takes damage from fire. In fact, the enemies who deal fire damage are some of the heaviest hitting enemies in the game, and they can kill Ember in the blink of an eye. Which ultimately means that this passive is unfitting for Ember gameplay wise. 

Knowing how to start fires and knowing how to put them out are two different skill sets. 

[Dreddeth]

Miasma is not your bread and butter, it's a detonation switch for your Spores when you need some burst damage and/or a stagger. Toxic Lash, by which your spores proc and spread with the added bonus of massive Toxin procs, is your bread and butter after Spore itself, which is the vehicle for pretty much all your damage.

Also, just like a disease, her DPS grows exponentially with the number of enemies present. Against a single heavy, she's sub-optimal. Against your typical T4 horde, she's the Black Death incarnate because all the popped spores end up refreshing each other and stacking Toxin DoTs to the point of ruination on top of the ever-useful Viral procs.

Your opinion on Saryn isn't valid precisely because you've been playing her the wrong way. Imagine playing a Valkyr built for Paralysis as opposed to Warcry or Hysteria, or a Mirage built for Sleight of Hand rather than Hall of Mirrors or Prism. It's just not going to work considering that you're focusing on her most situational ability in lieu of the powers that make her what she is.

[Laidain]

One of the gripes I have with Saryn for me is that 3 of her important abilities can't have negative stats,those being,miasma,spores,and molt.Im probably modding her wrong but ill let you guys crituue my build for her,I can't figure out a proper one.

Here's the build:http://warframe-builder.com/Warframes/Builder/Saryn_Prime

[(PSN)Silverback73]

8 hours ago, CrudShuzKong said:

Against 5 she will do less damage then excal.

Against 20 she will do more.

Saryn is the queen of spread damage, the more enemies there are the more damage she does. She can cause devestating chain reactions of bursting spores that outdps anything else i have seen in this game so far.

This.  

V, go to Draco and play around.

Enemy density is the key to nearly exponential damage.

I use Regen Molt and cast Spores on it and then cycle with Miasma and Toxic Lash.

You can effectively hang back and watch the map infect and destroy itself.  In a squad, it's even better.

I go max power (including Blind Rage at +75/-25) with max range and CP and corrosive on everything.

I use a 5-forma Rakta Cernos so it Viral Bombs the map repeatedly.

I've done insane damage % compared to the rest of my squad at times.

It's not lvl 125 bombards, but it gives you an idea of how she can excel and under what conditions.

And it's not even with a Gas Ignis.

 

[Ivan_Rid]

Saryn is never good enough for sortie 3. At least against Corpus she was doing okay, but now shield drones provide toxin immunity to their buddies and each other.

Molt gets instantly destroyed (no regen ticks for you), Spores dont do enough damage even if you feed them Lanka`s Gas procs (and toxin spread is inconsistent as hell, looks like its bugged), Miasma is just a 3 sec AoE stagger (not even 1 corrosive proc, seriously DE?), and going melee is straight up unwise (unless you cheese it up with shadow step).

And for the people who are going to tell: "She isnt p4tw now and you want old Miasma back" (theres always a few) - I didnt even play the game before her rework.

I still love her playstyle and do use her more than 50% of the time, but she definitly isnt on the level of Nova or Mirage - and if she isnt strong, well, she is weak. Someone might call her balanced, but being balanced isnt good enough - look at Oberon.

[PikeOrShield]

5 hours ago, Pratigious said:

One of the gripes I have with Saryn for me is that 3 of her important abilities can't have negative stats,those being,miasma,spores,and molt.Im probably modding her wrong but ill let you guys crituue my build for her,I can't figure out a proper one.

Here's the build:http://warframe-builder.com/Warframes/Builder/Saryn_Prime

The link you posted isn't bringing anything up.  If you want to share your build, hit the export option towards the top of the page and use the link provided.

Anyway, the most popular dump stat for Saryn is efficiency.  Spores scale incredibly well on their own since they scale up with toxin procs, and they spreads very easily, so you don't have to recast very often.  Builds like that rely on weapons a bit more then abilities since you can't just cast Molt or Miasma on a whim, but if your doing it right, you won't have to.

Here's a thread about it:

Here's the build I use, just for an example.  If you use this build and run into energy problems, you can get shot to activate the Rage mod and use Regenerative Molt to gain ~100hp/s for 10s (the hp gained scales with power strength).  If you time it out right, you will gain all your energy back + more.  Zenurik Energy Overflow makes efficiency almost a non-issue, but it's not a requirement.  I only cast Miasma when I'm feeling bored/trying to kill-steal from friends/someone in the squad went down and I need everything to die.  Try to be conservative and keep spreading spores so you don't have to recast it.

http://warframe-builder.com/Warframes/Builder/Saryn_Prime/t_30_3022400230_2-4-10-4-0-5-12-2-10-34-8-5-46-5-5-59-1-3-411-7-10-471-6-3-479-3-10-615-9-5_4-5-59-9-12-8-479-7-2-6-46-11-471-9-411-8-34-14-615-9_0/en/1-0-44/0

[Dreddeth]

2 hours ago, Ivan_Rid said:

but now shield drones provide toxin immunity to their buddies and each other.

Toxin procs (and Viral procs as well) are explicitly stated to bypass shields entirely, according to the wiki's article on Damage 2.0. Show me in the patch notes where they changed this.

 

2 hours ago, Ivan_Rid said:

Spores dont do enough damage even if you feed them Lanka`s Gas procs

Their point isn't to do damage, their point is to proc Viral and transmit Toxin procs. This here implies you're doing something wrong like just letting them sit there, or not actively aiming for them, when you need to be nailing them like Banshee's Sonar marks.
 

2 hours ago, Ivan_Rid said:

going melee is straight up unwise (unless you cheese it up with shadow step).

Toxic Lash gives up to 95% damage reduction to melee blocking. To put that in perspective, Mirage's Eclipse does the same thing when you're in shadow, and it ends up making her almost unkillable on dark maps like Orokin Derelict or Grineer Galleon.

Whether or not the bullS#&$ special conditions have rendered it suicidal without cheese is a moot point, as Sorties themselves have the implicit restriction of "Cheese Only."

Molt does suck pretty hard right now, though, thanks to broken enemy scaling making it pretty much useless at higher levels. Also, the Augment faces direct competition with things like the Medi-Ray mod for Sentinels, or Arcane Grace for you lunatics who run Trials.

[Birdframe_Prime]

16 hours ago, LSG501 said:

But then you could argue the opposite because of Ember who gains 35% power strength and regenerates 10 points of energy for every second she is ablaze.  Embers core 'element' enhances her rather than hinders her. 

In terms of game play mechanics, immunity and buffs are two separate things. Giving Ember, Frost, Saryn and so on immunity to their own elements makes no sense mechanically or in lore terms; mechanically because fire, frost and toxin immunity are powerful abilities that you'd give to a frame for no cost (everything has to have a cost), and in terms of lore because the warframes themselves are not made of anything different to each other or their enemies (Ember is still made of polymer, sensors, rubedo, etc. Her parts are actually only different to Rhino's in terms of quantity and arrangement, you can set Rhino on fire, why not Ember?).

All buffs come at a cost. Energy, health, shields, game play... Atlas is immune to knock-down, if you ignore the entire parkour system to keep his feet on the ground, Rhino can become immune to physical damage and knock-down at the cost of energy, Zephyr becomes immune to range, Limbo becomes immune to everything at the cost of energy, ability to kill things or pick up loot...

It's a difficult thing to balance, immunity. You have to sacrifice something to gain something, it's the core of game design, up to a point you can gain something for relatively nothing, like levelling up, but to get beyond that, to gain more strength you lose efficiency, or duration, and so on.

On the other hand, Ember heats up the air around her or her targets, causing it or the target to ignite. If she's on fire, that's doing half the work for her, she only has to use the same strength to get more of a result. But, naturally, she has to accept damage to gain this power, which is how you balance it out.

Balance. That's the key to good game design, and immunity to an entire damage type... it's like saying 'Mesa is the gun-slinger warframe, she should be immune to bullets.'

[(PSN)xX-GunHound-Xx]

On ‎6‎/‎5‎/‎2016 at 7:33 AM, bubbabenali said:

lvl 110 Bombards, huh.

Who is so stupid to go in a full cell long enough to spawn lvl 110 Bombards without enough CPs to strip their armor down to 0?

But isn't that what Miasma supposed to do, you know, strip armor? Now, I'm not saying that it should do it in one instance, but maybe through some stacking or multiple procs, but as good as Saryn's kit is now, you have to admit, her ult doesn't quite feel...ultimate. Yes, her kit has been changed into more of a debuffer, but what point does a debuffer have, if her main proc, being viral, can't be quite as effective on one of the most major resistances in game, being armor and it's scaling. She is effectively good at 2/3 of the enemy factions. Her Miasma should at least through bare minimum, be able to effectively strip armor w/o the need of using 4 cp.

[bubbabenali]

1 minute ago, (PS4)xX-GunHound-Xx said:

But isn't that what Miasma supposed to do, you know, strip armor? Now, I'm not saying that it should do it in one instance, but maybe through some stacking or multiple procs, but as good as Saryn's kit is now, you have to admit, her ult doesn't quite feel...ultimate. Yes, her kit has been changed into more of a debuffer, but what point does a debuffer have, if her main proc, being viral, can't be quite as effective on one of the most major resistances in game, being armor and it's scaling. She is effectively good at 2/3 of the enemy factions. Her Miasma should at least through bare minimum, be able to effectively strip armor w/o the need of using 4 cp.

I'm all in for a corrosive proc on each Miasma Tick, in fact thats what I wished for since her rework.

But be realistic, lvl 110 Bombards spawn at arround the 60 minute mark. Nobody goes that long without 100%+ CP, cheese or [Tanky Frame of your chioce] into Survival missions to farm stuff.

[YasaiTsume]

10 minutes ago, bubbabenali said:

I'm all in for a corrosive proc on each Miasma Tick, in fact thats what I wished for since her rework.

But be realistic, lvl 110 Bombards spawn at arround the 60 minute mark. Nobody goes that long without 100%+ CP, cheese or [Tanky Frame of your chioce] into Survival missions to farm stuff.

Scratch Corrosive Procs.

I rather a more substantial buff like downright armor removal similar to Sonic Fracture. 

Miasma should at least half the Armor on enemies.

Maybe more. 

[bubbabenali]

11 minutes ago, YasaiTsume said:

Scratch Corrosive Procs.

I rather a more substantial buff like downright armor removal similar to Sonic Fracture. 

Miasma should at least half the Armor on enemies.

Maybe more. 

Lets wait for the enemy rework - maybe DE gets that whole armor nonsene worked out.

If that fails, yeah, I think her Miasma should corrode the armor more than just a few ticks.

But until then she is a nice support debuffer with some damage and survivability potential.

[YasaiTsume]

Just now, bubbabenali said:

Lets wait for the enemy rework - maybe DE gets that whole armor nonsene worked out.

If that fails, yeah, I think her Miasma should corrode the armor more than just a few ticks.

But until then she is a nice support debuffer with some damage and survivability potential.

Nononononono.

Sonic Fracture removes 70% Armor in one cast with no Power Strength. 

MIASMA NEEDS TO REMOVE ALL ARMOR.

Well for at least 3 - 4 seconds I don't mind.

Sonic Fracture can remove 100% Armor for 140% Strength for 8 seconds. 

SO UNFAIR. 

[bubbabenali]

2 minutes ago, YasaiTsume said:

Nononononono.

Sonic Fracture removes 70% Armor in one cast with no Power Strength. 

MIASMA NEEDS TO REMOVE ALL ARMOR.

Well for at least 3 - 4 seconds I don't mind.

Sonic Fracture can remove 100% Armor for 140% Strength for 8 seconds. 

SO UNFAIR. 

Well, Ash can do that with his 1st and even completly ignor armor with his BS (pun intended).

Also Banshee is compared to Saryn very squishy.

Also, why do you focus so much on armor reduction. Either you are in a cell with enough CPs, or another supporter that handles the armor or you go solo with Inaros and an Atterax.

That's the possible way's I go 60 minutes T4 and I don't think they are that exotic.

Ok, sewer farming maybe, but that doesn't need Saryn or Banshee anyways.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

46 minutes ago, bubbabenali said:

Well, Ash can do that with his 1st and even completly ignor armor with his BS (pun intended).

Also Banshee is compared to Saryn very squishy.

Also, why do you focus so much on armor reduction. Either you are in a cell with enough CPs, or another supporter that handles the armor or you go solo with Inaros and an Atterax.

That's the possible way's I go 60 minutes T4 and I don't think they are that exotic.

Ok, sewer farming maybe, but that doesn't need Saryn or Banshee anyways.

I mean she is a dbuffer and it's somewhat of a strange concept that miasama adds nothing to her playstyle besides a few popped spores...

 

It could spread corrusion, disolve armor completely or ignore armor by itself without going against her theme.

 

I get that DE wanted to move away from her press4 playstyle but that's no reason to leave her ultimate with nothing but a small support function >.>

[V31L]

If her miasma gets an armor reduction debuff to it like frost's 4 her kit will be so much better. As couple of people mentioned miasma doesnt do much other than small ticks of damage and popping spores. Miasma deals corrosive damage so an armor reduction that scales with power strength will make so much sense.

[(PSN)Zashukitsune]

On Sunday, June 05, 2016 at 1:07 AM, Roachester said:

Who tt you Saryn was a DPS frame?

It's all about the better DoT. Spread those Spores like the freaking plague. When you're under heavy fire, throw out a Molt to get a brief moment of relief. Whip out Toxic Lash for a little extra insult to injury. You shouldn't be using Miasma as anything more than a finishing touch of sorts. Trying to build specifically for her 4th ability is a huge waste of both time and energy.

I was gonna say something but you not only beat me to it, you said it bettee than I would've. Major kudos.

But yeah, this.

[shirokoi]

Saryn's damage increases EXPONENTIALLY for every extra enemy in the area. She murders crowds with ease, and her damage only increases as the battle drags on. You keep saying that you don't like her because of your own play style, yet you argue with everyone who is offering advice on how to play her in a way that benefits from her abilities. And last but not least, you named this thread "Saryn is weak!!!" in the most clickbaity way. Troll? Even if you aren't, you sure are acting like it.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

17 hours ago, Ivan_Rid said:

Saryn is never good enough for sortie 3.

I still love her playstyle and do use her more than 50% of the time, but she definitly isnt on the level of Nova or Mirage - and if she isnt strong, well, she is weak. Someone might call her balanced, but being balanced isnt good enough - look at Oberon.

Nova and Mirage are getting reworks, yes?

I've run excavation Corpus Sortie 3 with a max power/range Saryn Prime.  See my above build.  I may have been 2nd in dmg and first in kills or vice versa at the end.

[Laidain]

14 hours ago, PikeOrShield said:

The link you posted isn't bringing anything up.  If you want to share your build, hit the export option towards the top of the page and use the link provided.

Anyway, the most popular dump stat for Saryn is efficiency.  Spores scale incredibly well on their own since they scale up with toxin procs, and they spreads very easily, so you don't have to recast very often.  Builds like that rely on weapons a bit more then abilities since you can't just cast Molt or Miasma on a whim, but if your doing it right, you won't have to.

Here's a thread about it:

Here's the build I use, just for an example.  If you use this build and run into energy problems, you can get shot to activate the Rage mod and use Regenerative Molt to gain ~100hp/s for 10s (the hp gained scales with power strength).  If you time it out right, you will gain all your energy back + more.  Zenurik Energy Overflow makes efficiency almost a non-issue, but it's not a requirement.  I only cast Miasma when I'm feeling bored/trying to kill-steal from friends/someone in the squad went down and I need everything to die.  Try to be conservative and keep spreading spores so you don't have to recast it.

http://warframe-builder.com/Warframes/Builder/Saryn_Prime/t_30_3022400230_2-4-10-4-0-5-12-2-10-34-8-5-46-5-5-59-1-3-411-7-10-471-6-3-479-3-10-615-9-5_4-5-59-9-12-8-479-7-2-6-46-11-471-9-411-8-34-14-615-9_0/en/1-0-44/0

Sorry man,here's my build,I didn't press the export button:http://warframe-builder.com/Warframes/Builder/Saryn_Prime/t_30_0342042040_2-2-10-6-7-5-12-3-6-37-8-5-46-5-5-49-0-4-55-4-5-479-6-8-481-1-10_49-10-481-7-2-6-12-6-55-11-46-6-479-6-6-11-37-14-f-f_0/en/1-0-44

 

Critique this build, because for some odd reason,i always find myself casting spores and molt.I didn't even know zenurik had a passive like that,4 energy per second when maxed?!

Man i feel DE is nerfing that but yeah,i was told you need to spread the spores,i can't spread them fast enough because i have to aim at each spore to pop them and there's like a spore on their feet on their hand,i can't seem to pop each spore with my Prisma Grakata,.My usual overall loadout with Saryn is Prisma Grakata,Mara Detron,Prisma Dual Cleavers and Wyrm prime with it's default prime weapon.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

3 minutes ago, Pratigious said:

Sorry man,here's my build,I didn't press the export button:http://warframe-builder.com/Warframes/Builder/Saryn_Prime/t_30_0342042040_2-2-10-6-7-5-12-3-6-37-8-5-46-5-5-49-0-4-55-4-5-479-6-8-481-1-10_49-10-481-7-2-6-12-6-55-11-46-6-479-6-6-11-37-14-f-f_0/en/1-0-44

 

Critique this build, because for some odd reason,i always find myself casting spores and molt.I didn't even know zenurik had a passive like that,4 energy per second when maxed?!

Man i feel DE is nerfing that but yeah,i was told you need to spread the spores,i can't spread them fast enough because i have to aim at each spore to pop them and there's like a spore on their feet on their hand,i can't seem to pop each spore with my Prisma Grakata,.My usual overall loadout with Saryn is Prisma Grakata,Mara Detron,Prisma Dual Cleavers and Wyrm prime with it's default prime weapon.

The goto for this is gas ignis.  It INSTAPops and spread-stacks galore.  

Corrosive and Viral on everything.

I use Regenerative Molt as bait, cast spore and retreat because I like using my 5-forma Rakta Cernos with Corrosive and Viral from a distance and watch my Syndicate Viral Bomb go off over and over as spores pop and spread.

The stacking can be devastating.

 

[ranks21]

saryn never really got any better realistically  I have always used this frame for her 1+ 3 when everyone was nuking with her 4. that being said the meta with her hasn't changed but a number switched from p4tw > p1tw same one trick pony and her 1 really now trivializes the game as you can have it lingers on indefinitely when youre in higher levels with tougher enemies. its the ultimate nuke bomb and the cheapest ultimate in the game. still a noob friendly frame.

Edited June 7, 2016 by ranks21