Lets discuss the nullifiers

[ElCorintio]

1 hour ago, VoidNomade said:

For there´s one reason why the need to go.

They are holding the Lore in their basement and torture it when ever they like.

 

A device nullifying ALL void powers?

Ridiculous.

This!

Time ago, the only one that can negate your powers was the Stalker, but today, a lot of enemies can negate your powers, and lore wise it seems stupid, and negate powers has turned to be a mundane thing instead of a special thing.


Yesterday I was watching this video on reddit ( video created by LOBROE)

"Why nullifier shields are bad. An extreme example"
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4ekrry

For me, the problems with them are:

1.- The bubble has a really weird mechanic to be destroyed ( watch the video )
2.- They Dispel any buff when you enter in the bubble

I think they add some challenge to the game, but they need some tweaks... I have never understood why the bow's arrows can't penetrate the bubble...


 

[-CM-Hekovashi]

I remember like it was today-it was 3rd sortie, solo, corpus surv. 5 min till end i run in to a room with 5-6 nullifiers, with overlaping shields...those guys cover whole room and a small army inside with those inpenetrable things. Best experience in 3 years that i play warframe.
 

Edited June 5, 2016 by -CM-Hekovashi

[(XBOX)DataStorm 8Bit]

6 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Ignore this, mobile is acting up.

Nullifiers nullifying my vex armour isn't the problem, the problem is that they don't care if it's up or not, they can still kill me when I avoid them. 1 shooting me, from a test, dealt 300 damage when I had my buff up, imagine if it shot me without the buff.

[ComCray]

56 minutes ago, ElCorintio said:

Yesterday I was watching this video on reddit ( video created by LOBROE)

"Why nullifier shields are bad. An extreme example"
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4ekrry
 

Video seems to be gone (content removed??), here's the youtube version (if it is the same)

 

[Hypernaut1]

DE, PLEASE create an EZ mode for these whiners in SC 3.0 and leave the challenging enemies alone.

Nullifiers are not bad design. They change the battle field and make you adjust your tactics. This is good. Some of you would just prefer to mentally check out and just aim,spam,kill anything in your path without a second thought to prioritization. Some of us actually like to feel that enemies are actually trying to defeat us and not just wandering into a slaughter without any sort of intelligent defense.

It really doesnt take much to counter a nullifier. Most weapons can pop their bubbles effectively, EVEN sniper rifles. Most secondaries can deal with their bubble too, and all melee can make short work of them.

People use the "lazy design" excuse as a way to insult DE and guilt them into changing it, but I see nothing lazy about it. They're an enemy with an effective area of denial tactic. When you see them, you need to adjust your "point at anything and it dies" strategy and come up with  a game plan.

If anything, enemies should be more organized and battery utilize their nullifier soldiers. We SHOULD hate them, it's makes it so much more satisfying to defeat.

That versus "aim, shoot...oh look eximus...aim,shoot"

 

 

Edited June 5, 2016 by Hypernaut1

[BlackCoMerc]

3 hours ago, VoidNomade said:

For there´s one reason why the need to go.

They are holding the Lore in their basement and torture it when ever they like.

 

A device nullifying ALL void powers?

Ridiculous.

This.

DE's blatant disregard for their own lore is becoming...obnoxious. At this point any semblance of internal consistency in their world has been utterly destroyed. To claim that anything in the world Tenno inhabit makes sense is absurd. Its very gamey and artificial feeling and constantly reminds me I am playing a game. One with some very ill considered mechanics...

1 hour ago, ElCorintio said:

This!

Time ago, the only one that can negate your powers was the Stalker, but today, a lot of enemies can negate your powers, and lore wise it seems stupid, and negate powers has turned to be a mundane thing instead of a special thing.


Yesterday I was watching this video on reddit ( video created by LOBROE)

"Why nullifier shields are bad. An extreme example"
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4ekrry

For me, the problems with them are:

1.- The bubble has a really weird mechanic to be destroyed ( watch the video )
2.- They Dispel any buff when you enter in the bubble

I think they add some challenge to the game, but they need some tweaks... I have never understood why the bow's arrows can't penetrate the bubble...


 

Agreed. "Just make them immune to powers" is becoming the new dev crutch. First Stalker. Then Nullifiers. THEN it was Capture targets. ALL of them. Regardless of faction or enemy type. Which is ludicrous and insulting to players intelligence when you think about it. 

You give us these abilities, but take them away for no reason whenever you feel like it? Guess what: It isnt making anything more challenging. But it is making lots of stuff more tedious and annoying...

[(PSN)Crixus044]

7 hours ago, Madway7 said:

True, but I still sorta looked forward to having a reason to use that mediocre weapon.

Make it non-mediocure?

[IceColdHawk]

12 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

DE, PLEASE create an EZ mode for these whiners in SC 3.0 and leave the challenging enemies alone.

DE, PLEASE create an masochism mode with extra enhanced nullifier spawns for tryhards like these in SC 3.0 and let corpus actually be fun.

15 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

We SHOULD hate them, it's makes it so much more satisfying to defeat.

The word you're looking for is: "frustrating".

[Hypernaut1]

7 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

DE, PLEASE create an masochism mode with extra enhanced nullifier spawns for tryhards like these in SC 3.0 and let corpus actually be fun.

The word you're looking for is: "frustrating".

The difference between me asking for an EZ mode and what you posted is that I'm NOT asking for enhanced nullifiers and increased spawns, but there's a bunch of you basically asking for easier enemies that take no effort or change in playstyle to defeat

[IceColdHawk]

1 minute ago, Hypernaut1 said:

The difference between me asking for an EZ mode and what you posted is that I'm NOT asking for enhanced nullifiers and increased spawns, but there's a bunch of you basically asking for easier enemies that take no effort or change in playstyle to defeat

No, what we're asking for is balance and not foulish or faking challenges that completely restrict diversity.

Edited June 5, 2016 by IceColdHawk

[VoidNomade]

16 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

DE, PLEASE create an EZ mode for these whiners in SC 3.0 and leave the challenging enemies alone.

Nullifiers are not bad design. They change the battle field and make you adjust your tactics. This is good. Some of you would just prefer to mentally check out and just aim,spam,kill anything in your path without a second thought to prioritization. Some of us actually like to feel that enemies are actually trying to defeat us and not just wandering into a slaughter without any sort of intelligent defense.

It really doesnt take much to counter a nullifier. Most weapons can pop their bubbles effectively, EVEN sniper rifles. Most secondaries can deal with their bubble too, and all melee can make short work of them.

People use the "lazy design" excuse as a way to insult DE and guilt them into changing it, but I see nothing lazy about it. They're an enemy with an effective area of denial tactic. When you see them, you need to adjust your "point at anything and it dies" strategy and come up with  a game plan.

If anything, enemies should be more organized and battery utilize their nullifier soldiers. We SHOULD hate them, it's makes it so much more satisfying to defeat.

That versus "aim, shoot...oh look eximus...aim,shoot"

 

 

"when you see them"

in fact you get spammed with them later.

There´s nothing tactical in going into a mission where you know you gonna shot 50% of your bullets into sci fi shields.

 

The enemy is so bad designed it´s pitiful in 1vs1 or lower numbers. When they get stacked though with eximi, ancients and bombards and their level is high enough you can´t melee such a group except you´re going to take the risk to get killed.

Now you wanna say you can fight their multiple shields with a sniper? No, you can´t. Even if you´re a Lanka God getting down those quick shots like a machine gun.

In such a mission you´re forced, again and again, to fight multiple shields. And that´s when things gets boring and dull because you don´t fight the enemy any more but only their proxy shields. You even know you gonna face those situation before the mission even starts.

And that´s it, they are a dull and boring enemy design forcing you into a pseudo tactical meta with weapon restrictions.

 

[VoidNomade]

32 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

DE's blatant disregard for their own lore is becoming...obnoxious. At this point any semblance of internal consistency in their world has been utterly destroyed. To claim that anything in the world Tenno inhabit makes sense is absurd. Its very gamey and artificial feeling and constantly reminds me I am playing a game. One with some very ill considered mechanics...

Pretty much.

I don´t even understand that such an enemy/tech still exist in the lore.

Just imagine for a moment Warframe and Lotus getting notes of this technology.

She would release the heaven and the hell, would order ALL Tennos, even side with grineers and all other factions.. TO DESTROY THIS TECHNOLOGY.. *heavy breathing*

[ranks21]

lore has no substance or cohesiveness just furry visions of what could be and also a cop out from making a sensible story line. just look at captain vor what is he really lore wise? is he the same as on mercury that's related to the opening cut scene, or is he the mech vor on earth in the hydroid quest? or corrupted vor in the void I might be missing an instance or 2 but you get the idea of incomplete "beta" stuff.

[Hixlysss]

8 hours ago, AdunSaveMe said:

Boost comba spawns, remove nullifiers. Nullifiers are a lazy, boring, poorly-designed unit.

I....have to agree with this. I love the comba and scrambus units, they are way more interesting than nullifiers. But if nullifiers got their shields reworked to actually pop based on damage(Seriously, why does a unmodded twin viper take down nullifier bubbles quicker than a sancti tigris that does nearly 30k per shot.

[Hypernaut1]

10 minutes ago, Rikov said:

I....have to agree with this. I love the comba and scrambus units, they are way more interesting than nullifiers. But if nullifiers got their shields reworked to actually pop based on damage(Seriously, why does a unmodded twin viper take down nullifier bubbles quicker than a sancti tigris that does nearly 30k per shot.

I don't see how dumbing down the mechanic to succumb to DPS is any better.

Shouldn't we want something other than pure damage to matter at times? The nullifier hate is simply people wanting to point at an enemy and delete it. Any enemy that requires a modicum of thought beyond "point at it and kill it" is hated on on these forums. Bursa, manics, drones, bombards, heyekas, commanders, power fist....there is a definite trend.

You expect DE to add enemy variety, yet dont care for anything that isnt just cannon fodder falling over to your sancti tigris when you point at it.

The love for the comba units are simply because when they show up 90% of the time you just shoot their helmets off and go about your business as if nothing different spawned.

Edited June 5, 2016 by Hypernaut1

[VoidNomade]

10 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

The nullifier hate is simply people wanting to point at an enemy and delete it.

Ridiculous.

In every thread the last months about this topic there is also the ongoing line that while we should get rid of those units we also want to propose more scrambus/combas.

or even other ideas

That bites with your one sided statement.

 

Edited June 5, 2016 by VoidNomade

[VoidNomade]

25 minutes ago, ranks21 said:

lore has no substance or cohesiveness just furry visions of what could be and also a cop out from making a sensible story line. just look at captain vor what is he really lore wise? is he the same as on mercury that's related to the opening cut scene, or is he the mech vor on earth in the hydroid quest? or corrupted vor in the void I might be missing an instance or 2 but you get the idea of incomplete "beta" stuff.

Because something else is S#&$ everything should be S#&$.

Dat logic.

[Madway7]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

Make it non-mediocure?

I expect that if anything starts becoming good or too useful it will be up on DE's "to nerf" list.

[DeadlyPeanutt]

Nullifiers are annoying and should be deleted.   so frames have abilities that are carefully modded and that players depend on to be successful, then 12 bots per minute in mobs simply disable those powers?  

annoying game design.  get rid of them 

heck, i don't mind tough, fast, creative and cunning bots, but lazy game design... nope. 

Edited June 5, 2016 by DeadlyPeanutt

[(PSN)robotwars7]

get rid. or at the very least, tweak them to have a smaller bubble, there's no need for them to take up an entire room anymore. I also think Punchthrough should be a factor, with those mods allow you to penetrate their bubbles at the cost of slightly reduced damage.

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

I'd say, limit them. Buff them and change them in other areas, but change their mechanics.

Taking out Nullifiers would only present more problems scaling wise then it would solve.

As for their changes, having them the way they are now really doesn't make much sense. Their supposed to limit Nuking abilities (which, truth be told, they do), yet in reality, they offer very little counterplay and punish certain Warframes and Weapons. You either get a high RoF weapon to deal with them at range, or you melee them at close range with whatever BS enemies they have in their with them. Both will most likely get you killed or limit you severely, since having to change up your weapons and Warframes (as we all know Tanks aren't exactly in a good place end-game wise thanks to Nullies) isn't good, it really only shows how bad of an enemy they truly are. You should have to change your tactics against specific enemy types, not your entire loadout. We already have a system in place that let's us deal with specific enemy types in the form of Elemental Combinations, we really shouldn't need to do much more than that.

1.) Nullifiers need to Nullify Enemies

I think this is possibly the most important fix overall to Nullifiers as a whole, aside from their spawn rates. Nullifiers should really add some interesting benefits, and downsides, to allies and foes alike. Making it so enemies in the Nullifiers bubble cannot be affected by Warframe Powers, but are also unable to shoot/attack/Heal out and inside of said bubble would make them a much easier threat to deal with. Ancients can't heal them, Bombards can't erase you in complete safety and Nullifiers lose their immortality inside of their bubble.

2.) Nullifiers can't Shut Down Everything

I think we all know the main thing I'm talking about as of now, which would happen to be Tanks and their complete uselessness against Nullifiers as a whole. A Tanks job is to distract, disrupt and soak up damage. With a Nullifier, that is essentially impossible. Due to this, most Tanks in the game aren't very effective at all against the Corpus or in the Void, simply due to the fact that their abilities are completely shut off upon entering the bubble. I will say, however, that Nullifers should still pose a threat to Warframes overall, but shouldn't be complete BS against one type of Warframe. Making it so they worked much more like Comba units and shut off your abilities (and didn't allow you to activate them) until you got out of their range or killed them would be the best solution, I feel. They'd shut off every ability, aside from Self-Buffs, so Tanks can be a great counter to them when it comes to Melee. To combat this, however, Nullifiers would get a powerful shotgun they could only use inside of their bubble, limiting their damage from afar but making them a much more dangerous enemy up close, much like their Detron and Corrupted Brethren.

3.) Nullies Can't block Everything

Another counter to them that allows certain Weapons to actually deal sufficient damage to the Nullifiers bubble. Low RoF weapons are terrible against them, while weapons like Snipers and Bows are completely useless against them. This change is in an iffy spot for me, as I honestly feel Nullifier bubbles should be based around Damage taken, not the amount of hits they take, yet that'd leave them far too vulnerable to explosives and Shotguns alike. Honestly, I think making it so Shotguns (due to their high pellet count), would be great to use against Nullifier bubbles, along with Snipers, (which could go through the bubble and instantly kill the Nullifier inside) Bows, (which could destroy the bubble in one shot, needing an extra to kill the Nullifier, due to them being much easier to use) and Low RoF weapons (which could count as 2x the damage to Nullifier bubbles, in comparison to High RoF weapons). That way, Nullie bubbles could keep their amounts of shots needed to take down the bubble, but other weapons wouldn't be so limited by it.

4.) Nullifiers need to Spawn Less

Pretty self explanatory, limit their spawns. Seriously.

With all these changes in mind, Nullifiers would still be a force to be reckoned with, but would be easier for everyone involved to take down.

[Wandering_Cyberdragoness]

personally, I think they just need to be balanced a little. giving the bubbles a fixed, snow globe like bubble with no damage cap would make them fair, along with letting abilities hit the bubble itself.

[Wandering_Cyberdragoness]

1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I don't see how dumbing down the mechanic to succumb to DPS is any better.

Shouldn't we want something other than pure damage to matter at times? The nullifier hate is simply people wanting to point at an enemy and delete it. Any enemy that requires a modicum of thought beyond "point at it and kill it" is hated on on these forums. Bursa, manics, drones, bombards, heyekas, commanders, power fist....there is a definite trend.

You expect DE to add enemy variety, yet dont care for anything that isnt just cannon fodder falling over to your sancti tigris when you point at it.

The love for the comba units are simply because when they show up 90% of the time you just shoot their helmets off and go about your business as if nothing different spawned.

you shouldn't make units that appear in two factions, one of which is critical to fight for endgame income and equipment, have an ability that absolutely forces you to run terrible weapons to take them down. It punishes solo, stealthy players, tanks in general, and any high damage weapon to an insane degree.

[Fionntan]

12 minutes ago, (XB1)Graysmog said:

I'd say, limit them. Buff them and change them in other areas, but change their mechanics.

Taking out Nullifiers would only present more problems scaling wise then it would solve.

As for their changes, having them the way they are now really doesn't make much sense. Their supposed to limit Nuking abilities (which, truth be told, they do), yet in reality, they offer very little counterplay and punish certain Warframes and Weapons. You either get a high RoF weapon to deal with them at range, or you melee them at close range with whatever BS enemies they have in their with them. Both will most likely get you killed or limit you severely, since having to change up your weapons and Warframes (as we all know Tanks aren't exactly in a good place end-game wise thanks to Nullies) isn't good, it really only shows how bad of an enemy they truly are. You should have to change your tactics against specific enemy types, not your entire loadout. We already have a system in place that let's us deal with specific enemy types in the form of Elemental Combinations, we really shouldn't need to do much more than that.

1.) Nullifiers need to Nullify Enemies

I think this is possibly the most important fix overall to Nullifiers as a whole, aside from their spawn rates. Nullifiers should really add some interesting benefits, and downsides, to allies and foes alike. Making it so enemies in the Nullifiers bubble cannot be affected by Warframe Powers, but are also unable to shoot/attack/Heal out and inside of said bubble would make them a much easier threat to deal with. Ancients can't heal them, Bombards can't erase you in complete safety and Nullifiers lose their immortality inside of their bubble.

2.) Nullifiers can't Shut Down Everything

I think we all know the main thing I'm talking about as of now, which would happen to be Tanks and their complete uselessness against Nullifiers as a whole. A Tanks job is to distract, disrupt and soak up damage. With a Nullifier, that is essentially impossible. Due to this, most Tanks in the game aren't very effective at all against the Corpus or in the Void, simply due to the fact that their abilities are completely shut off upon entering the bubble. I will say, however, that Nullifers should still pose a threat to Warframes overall, but shouldn't be complete BS against one type of Warframe. Making it so they worked much more like Comba units and shut off your abilities (and didn't allow you to activate them) until you got out of their range or killed them would be the best solution, I feel. They'd shut off every ability, aside from Self-Buffs, so Tanks can be a great counter to them when it comes to Melee. To combat this, however, Nullifiers would get a powerful shotgun they could only use inside of their bubble, limiting their damage from afar but making them a much more dangerous enemy up close, much like their Detron and Corrupted Brethren.

3.) Nullies Can't block Everything

Another counter to them that allows certain Weapons to actually deal sufficient damage to the Nullifiers bubble. Low RoF weapons are terrible against them, while weapons like Snipers and Bows are completely useless against them. This change is in an iffy spot for me, as I honestly feel Nullifier bubbles should be based around Damage taken, not the amount of hits they take, yet that'd leave them far too vulnerable to explosives and Shotguns alike. Honestly, I think making it so Shotguns (due to their high pellet count), would be great to use against Nullifier bubbles, along with Snipers, (which could go through the bubble and instantly kill the Nullifier inside) Bows, (which could destroy the bubble in one shot, needing an extra to kill the Nullifier, due to them being much easier to use) and Low RoF weapons (which could count as 2x the damage to Nullifier bubbles, in comparison to High RoF weapons). That way, Nullie bubbles could keep their amounts of shots needed to take down the bubble, but other weapons wouldn't be so limited by it.

4.) Nullifiers need to Spawn Less

Pretty self explanatory, limit their spawns. Seriously.

With all these changes in mind, Nullifiers would still be a force to be reckoned with, but would be easier for everyone involved to take down.

Well put to the T with the issue on nullies. Fair point that removing them isn't wise... I'm just booty bothered with them for being such )!#&$@#*$ for so long

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

9 minutes ago, Fionntan said:

Well put to the T with the issue on nullies. Fair point that removing them isn't wise... I'm just booty bothered with them for being such )!#&$@#*$ for so long

Yeah, to be completely honest, leaving them in their current state for so long has not been healthy for the game as a whole.

Yet at the same time, if they were nerfed long ago, what real challenge would we have had in the Void during our Warframes state of OPness? Mesa would have been sssoooo much worse, along with Excalibur, and Valkyr could have been unstoppable, literally.

I do feel they've been in a bad state for fffaaarrr too long. 
 

Although Warframes as a whole probably need to be taken down a notch overall to see how much we truly need to nerf Nullifiers.

Well.

Aside from their ridiculous spawn rates and bubble sizes, which EVERYONE knows is completely ridiculous and unfair.
 

Edited June 6, 2016 by (XB1)Graysmog