Updates vs Synoid Simulor

[Azrael]

Just now, IceColdHawk said:

Not anymore.

Does the no-headshot thing change it that much? I haven't tested it since u19. Can't you just aim above their heads to get headshots?

[IceColdHawk]

Just now, Lord_Azrael said:

Does the no-headshot thing change it that much? I haven't tested it since u19. Can't you just aim above their heads to get headshots?

Was fighting lvl 60 elite lancers. Noticed no damage difference when shooting at leg-height and above head-height. I was faster killing them with my akstiletto prime.

[Azrael]

1 minute ago, IceColdHawk said:

Was fighting lvl 60 elite lancers. Noticed no damage difference when shooting at leg-height and above head-height. I was faster killing them with my akstiletto prime.

Interesting. I guess I should take it to the simulacrum and see the difference. It's amazing how many weapons depended on the auto-headshot mechanic for their dps.

In that case, I guess I should apologize for calling it OP. Although I'm still reserving judgement until I can test it personally, it sounds like it may have gotten a nerf already.

Still, it was less about the damage, and more about the fx. The weapon is very annoying to fight alongside.

[IceColdHawk]

4 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:

Interesting. I guess I should take it to the simulacrum and see the difference. It's amazing how many weapons depended on the auto-headshot mechanic for their dps.

In that case, I guess I should apologize for calling it OP. Although I'm still reserving judgement until I can test it personally, it sounds like it may have gotten a nerf already.

Still, it was less about the damage, and more about the fx. The weapon is very annoying to fight alongside.

There is a stealth nerf thread about it somewhere. Tonkor is also affected. While i can see there had to be something done about them, it was definitely NOT damage. Smaller it's range, let it stop ignoring walls, but don't half/quarter it's damage...

Edited July 17, 2016 by IceColdHawk

[(PSN)HarigeVINCE]

18 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:

It's not about the amount of damage. It's about the fact that the combo awards lack of aim, has an extremely low skill cap (and easily outpaces weapon combos with a much higher skill cap), and has visual fx that ruin the mission for other people. I'm sure when you use it the fx don't really bother you, but I promise you nobody else in the squad appreciates the constant screen shake, the blinding flashes, or the fact that you can kill high-level enemies through walls without even knowing they are there while your squadmates are still trying to aim through all the vortexes you left behind you.

Well then DE could change the FX, I don't mind that ofcourse. They can just make the vortexes barely visible to other players as far as I'm concerned.

Not aiming is just a side effect of the synergy, but that's the whole point of synergies imo. Making 1+1=3 instead of 2.

You don't need to aim with bladestorm, you don't need to aim with ember + ignis, you don't need to aim with spores + molt explosion, and many other weapons like atomos, amprex, quanta secondary fire,... I can keep going.

 

My point is that legit (as in 'no bugged') synergies don't need to get nerfed. If two things are fine on their own, leave them alone. :)

[Azrael]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)HarigeVINCE said:

atomos, amprex, quanta secondary fire

Uh... With the first two you need to aim at your first target, and with the quanta secondary fire you definitely have to aim. You especially need to aim if you want to get the most out of the explosion by shooting the cubes. The others you mentioned are abilities and not guns, But I do see your point.

[Azrael]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)HarigeVINCE said:

My point is that legit (as in 'no bugged') synergies don't need to get nerfed.

Oh, and I forgot to mention something. The SS and Mirage wasn't nerfed, and neither was the synergy. What was nerfed was explosive weapons hitting headshots for no reason. Not only did that mechanic not make much sense, but it allowed people to take advantage of the powerful skill-based mod Argon Scope without actually hitting any headshots. So I'm not so sure that this counts as a "legit (as in 'not bugged') synergy." The synergy between quanta and magnetize was nerfed, but that was a bug too.

[IceColdHawk]

6 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:

but it allowed people to take advantage of the powerful skill-based mod Argon Scope without actually hitting any headshots.

You know, even if i consider AoEs to be just realistic if they hit headshots, it may not be healthy for balance. As you said, you could easily gain the argon scope bonus which shouldn't be. So yeah, headshots got removed which is fine, now how about upping the base dmg?

[(PSN)HarigeVINCE]

8 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:

Uh... With the first two you need to aim at your first target, and with the quanta secondary fire you definitely have to aim. You especially need to aim if you want to get the most out of the explosion by shooting the cubes. The others you mentioned are abilities and not guns, But I do see your point.

The cubes also explode on impact (you can spam) or over time, with the atomos and amprex it's just one target and nukes the rest, it's close to not aiming but you know what I mean and I'm glad you get the point :)

And those are just examples ofcourse.

I think people just overreact about the power of the synergy, like it has zero drawbacks and there are no other really powerful things.. some people like it, and it's a PvE game so everyone should just let each other enjoy.. I totally agree with changing the FX for other people tho!

[(PSN)HarigeVINCE]

15 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:

Oh, and I forgot to mention something. The SS and Mirage wasn't nerfed, and neither was the synergy. What was nerfed was explosive weapons hitting headshots for no reason. Not only did that mechanic not make much sense, but it allowed people to take advantage of the powerful skill-based mod Argon Scope without actually hitting any headshots. So I'm not so sure that this counts as a "legit (as in 'not bugged') synergy." The synergy between quanta and magnetize was nerfed, but that was a bug too.

Oh I know that it wasn't nerfed, but people here are asking for it, and I'm just saying why I don't agree it should be nerfed. The explosive weapons not making headshots is totally fair to me :)

[(PSN)bonateIIo]

2 hours ago, Lord_Azrael said:

It's not just the dps, it's the screen shake combined with the utter brainlessness. SS Mirage is the most brain dead combo in the game, and it makes it harder for others to play because of the visual fx.

I sometimes see SS mirages running around the map in circles, literally spamming vortexes everywhere without even knowing whether there were enemies around. These players don't even know whether they are killing things, they just run in a circle clicking M1. And the worst part? They not only get all the kills, they make weapons like my Rakta Cernos useless because I can't see or  aim at anything. They literally ruin missions for me, and suck the fun straight out of the game.

I'm not a fan of the accusatory tone and profanity in the OP, I feel like that'll just get this thread ignored by anyone who matters. But I agree that this is a problem. It's way worse than the Tonkor.

You know what's the worst? They nerfed quanta + magnetize, they nerfed magnetize vs nullies, they nerfed snowglobe vs nullies, they nerfed the glaive, and they nerfed the mutalist cernos vs nullies. But not the SS + Mirage. That, apparently, is okay to stay in the game.

 

When did they nerf it(mutalist cernos I mean), is it U19 part 2. and what exactly changed. Its like they keep reducing our options every single update, fml. WTF is this S#&$.

Edited July 17, 2016 by (PS4)bonateIIo

[Azrael]

Just now, (PS4)bonateIIo said:

When did they nerf it, is it U19 part 2. and what exactly changed. Its like they keep reducing our options every single update, fml. WTF is this S#&$.

It no longer damages them through the bubble. same with the glaive

 

[Magneu]

1 hour ago, ranks21 said:

atleast with mirage+ s.s. you actually have to press the fire button repeatedly and get within range of the enemies to get any return on your actions..

"I actually have to press the button that lets me fire my weapon to do damage."

That qualifies as effort?

Oh, the horror. I have to play the game???

[Phunkiecrux]

So many people seem to cry for [x] nerfs when they hate seeing the weapons. Nerf the Ogris! Nerf the Soma! Nerf the Penta! Nerf the Brakk! etc you get the idea.

Just let people play with their guns instead of trying to nerf everything that happens to be a bit more powerful than the others, because a constantly nerfed game will see few buffs of weapons that need buffs, instead of moving forwards and Make More Weapons Relevant, we move backwards nerfing this and that.

There are plenty of weapons in this game that simply need buffs, even small ones, to catch up to regular weapons, focus on them, and maybe people will expand their inventory, instead of making their current gun bad because "I'm tired of seeing it everywhere"

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

Reduce the weapons stack to 3 and reduce the damage. 

[Deatherage_]

to be fair instead of nerfing the weapon and inducing the legions of braindead simulor users to rage on the forums why can't we just enable items in the vortex to be picked up

 and no i do not use that weapon, check my profile in game if you want to confirm that i am not lying here

 

because in all reality a solid nerf to this weapon is that they could make it so the orbs shot from mirage's clones not count or they could just make it so the vortex does less total damage per tick and lasts for a shorter period of time

 

but in the long run everyone rages over something, like old peacemaker + a mag with greedy pull remember that abomination guys? what about old limbo banish? or the old invincible solo trinity build? zephyr with turbulance augment and old tonkor? OP things come and go and so will braindead simulor

[Epsik-kun]

I've read the OP post three times, and I still have no idea what it tries to say.

[bubbabenali]

9 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

I've read the OP post three times, and I still have no idea what it tries to say.

He sais:

"This game doesn't need any further balancing as long there is a weapon with infinite ammo that kills anything in a ~20m radius without the need for any other cheese.
Good Job, DE throw anything you come up with against us, we are impossible to be beaten with it anyways."

[Epsik-kun]

Just now, bubbabenali said:

He sais:

"This game doesn't need any further balancing as long there is a weapon with infinite ammo that kills anything in a ~20m radius without the need for any other cheese.
Good Job, DE throw anything you come up with against us, we are impossible to be beaten with it anyways."

Huh, thank you.

Welp, melee outperforms Simulor anyway, so the hate-train is kinda pointless.

[nms.]

I remember the same sh*t threads were being posted for the soma prime and boltor prime back then. Funny times. Once shotguns got a buff, a nobody would pop up every once in a while whining about them. Ember's 4 got tweaked, then it was about ember pressing 4 then doing nothing in trivial nodes. The erdogans of warframe.

Edited July 18, 2016 by nms.

[Jangkrik]

15 hours ago, Magneu said:

The weapon is annoying at best with the average frame, but plain out broken with Mirage, simply by virtue of her clones. The DPS increase is massive, along with constantly staggering enemies that get too close, hitting enemies through walls, giving you free energy, etc.

Completely agree. The SS itself doesn't do much when you don't pair it with Mirage.

[bubbabenali]

6 minutes ago, Jangkrik said:

Completely agree. The SS itself doesn't do much when you don't pair it with Mirage.

Ever tried it with an Ice Wave Impedance Frost? It's the perfect combination of CC, Mass destruction and invulnerability.

Or put Hush in and prowl through a level of corpses.

[Jangkrik]

1 hour ago, bubbabenali said:

Ever tried it with an Ice Wave Impedance Frost? It's the perfect combination of CC, Mass destruction and invulnerability.

Or put Hush in and prowl through a level of corpses.

So does Hikou P + CE, Tonkor, Secura Penta, Soma, Torid, Amprex, and *insert mass killing/AoE weapon here*. I believe that there are many other weapons that can do that with a good combination, but SS just happens to be massively buffed by Mirage, thus the reason why many people use it.

Can you score as much damage as a competent Mirage + SS with that Frost + SS build of yours? I don't think so. You still have to think where to aim the orbs, while you can just spam like crazy when using Mirage + SS and still deal the most damage when using it.

Edited July 18, 2016 by Jangkrik
fixed typo

[bubbabenali]

4 minutes ago, Jangkrik said:

So does Hikou P + CE, Tonkor, Secura Penta, Soma, Torid, Amprex, and *insert mass killing/AoE weapon here*. I believe that there are many other weapons that can do that with a good combination, but SS just happens to be massively buffed by Mirage, thus the reason why many people use it.

Can you score as much damage as a competent Mirage + SS with that Frost + SS build of yours? I don't think so. You still have to think where to aim the orbs, while you can just spam like crazy when using Mirage + SS and still deal the most damage when using it.

It's not about Mirage + SS is very good; it's about SS with any frame is carnage + energy regen. Which grants Frost massive tank and areal potential for example.

The weapon itself is a broken concept, it doesn't need a Mirage to rub it under anyones nose.

[Prepotenza]

17 hours ago, Duduminador said:

Explain this.

What's the point of introducing sorties, introducing new chalenges, change the whole grinding, rising average mission levels and yet keep this rolling, not adressing the same problems that's going to break whatever new mechanics the devs bring into the game, over and over again?

It was like before, it is now, it's going to be like that on War Within, WHATEVER the devs bring into, is going to come down to random shooting everywhere because of this damn fu.cking gun (because nobody pays attention untill somebody starts cursing), unless of course you get to play it solo.

I've learned to enjoy the recent changes to their fulliest. It's kinda fun doing the fissures. But they encourage some the cheapest synergies and broken gameplay mechanics that everybody has been trying to swept under the carpet, simply because everybody is already tired of seeing and talking about it. I'm finding Mirages on Synoid simulors further game discouraging, more than ever, to the point I just can't keep on playing warframe anymore, just close the game out of frustration and go about playing something else.

Simulor got a silent big nerf. Now it doesn't automatically headshot enemies.