Relics 2.0, DIRECT Wordbreaking by DE

[Jukantos]

So, Prime Time just announced relics 2.0 for the next prime and "a new way relics will be vaulted".

We will now be "able to" keep our relics and farm the old items attached to them, while new primes are attached to new relics which we unfortunately will not be able to prepare for / farm before those primes are released.

This is quite literally the EXACT thing you promised NOT to do. You said our key collections would be converted, that they would maintain value, and you didn't even wait a single month before going back on that promise by bypassing our entire former key collection when it comes to newly released primes. I predicted this exact scenario, i called this would happen and was scolded as a negative nancy by my friends for it.

We also still haven't seen the "Relics offered by Baro" as of it. Imagine the Nekros Prime BP were to end up as the rare drop from a relic that Baro unfortunately sells at 200 ducats each. Wouldn't that be a fun amount of grinding to do?

 

You are slowly but surely overstepping the boundaries of acceptable changes in terms of how much you cut into your players progress DE; and this is DIRECTLY going back on your previous promises in an even more significant way than the changes to weekly potato alerts and a lot more painfull to your veteran players too. You can't polish a turd, even if we get slightly more relic farming variation, if every new prime release forces us to spend HOURS in endless mission formats hoping to randomly get the correct relic, you have literally re-introduced the randomness of droptables that you wanted to cut down on with the very introduction of relics, only as an added bonus you now get to bypass everyone's old collection.

You'd better go back on going back on your word here. I realize im in no position to threaten you with anything but me personally quitting but it would be INCREDIBLY disappointing to see you going THAT far just to devalue the work veterans have put into their collections and to make prime access seem better than spending double or even tripple digit amounts of hours after a new prime is released. At that point, the old void would've LITERALLY given players better odds of obtaining what they want.

All in all, all i can say is, don't do this. You're going too far. Your attempts to further chop down player progression are getting completely out of proportion.

Rant OUT.

 

Edited July 21, 2016 by Jukantos

[DrProfSirCarmen]

I think you completely misunderstood what they meant by your keys will still have value. They meant that they wouldn't get rid of all your original keys completely invalidating all the work you put into them, which is what they've done by converting them to relics.

[Jukantos]

1 minute ago, DrProfSirCarmen said:

I think you completely misunderstood what they meant by your keys will still have value. They meant that they wouldn't get rid of all your original keys completely invalidating all the work you put into them, which is what they've done by converting them to relics.

nope they specifically said they would not uncouple our old key collections from new prime releases, before the relic system was even finally named or released. And look what happened not even a month after the rework.

Plus, if we have to farm for random specific keys out of random droptables every time after a prime releases, then what was the point of releasing the relic system. That exact type of scowering a huge reward table for a very specific item was the REASON keys were removed. Not only that, now hitting that specific thing on the droptable of an excavation, defense, survival, interception or whatever mission only gives you the relic, which only has a percentage chance of giving you the item you want out of it. If the new primes happen to make up a relic all the way to its rare drop, you could be looking at HUNDREDS of hours (or plat) just to get one single new prime piece. It would be two seperate RNG systems multiplied by each other.

I've suspected this exact scenario (Huge acquisition rate cutbacks being skinned up by a shiny new starchart) for over a year and by the looks and changes not only was i right, it's getting more drastical almost by the week now. Is this Tencents doing? What's the next step, Prime Access being released 1, 2, 4 weeks before the matching relics are put into droptables? What possible further cutbacks are even possible beyond this point, once our entire acquired collection is worthless towards obtaining new primes?

[ZodiacShinryu]

Well I didn't see the Prime time but did they show pics or give out exact details of what is in the drop table of these new relics? While maybe not the most ideal (from a veteran point of view), Maybe they will only pack the new relics with the new primes. Not as elegant of a solution but at least you will only get new prime stuff in these new relics. As I always say, all we can do is wait and see.

[Arblarg]

Oh boy loot crates and premium currency lottery here we come. We're well on track for it now. Can't wait to be sent to slaughter on the chicken farm.

[cittran]

6 minutes ago, DrProfSirCarmen said:

I think you completely misunderstood what they meant by your keys will still have value. They meant that they wouldn't get rid of all your original keys completely invalidating all the work you put into them, which is what they've done by converting them to relics.

Not quite.

The original statements made by DE were -- unfortunately -- vague enough that both his interpretation, and yours, are equally valid.

The problem, then, lies in the fact that prior to now, all keys were immutable -- you didn't suddenly need a new type of key entirely, you just needed to get more copies of an already-existing key-type.

If DE does actually introduce entirely-new relics specifically for new primes, and they don't include one helluva backing/stabilizing system for it, they should expect some massive flames to be headed their way.

 

While I, personally, wouldn't go utterly ballistic on them if they did this, I would be extremely disappointed in them if they did so without an incredibly-well-reasoned and logical explanation for it.

[DeMonkey]

Just now, cittran said:

While I, personally, wouldn't go utterly ballistic on them if they did this, I would be extremely disappointed in them if they did so without an incredibly-well-reasoned and logical explanation for it.

Simple answer. Money, most likely. Higher grind, more people willing to purchase PA.

At least now people will stop saying the new system is better when they realise how long it takes to farm the relic you want.

[Jukantos]

2 minutes ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

Well I didn't see the Prime time but did they show pics or give out exact details of what is in the drop table of these new relics? While maybe not the most ideal (from a veteran point of view), Maybe they will only pack the new relics with the new primes. Not as elegant of a solution but at least you will only get new prime stuff in these new relics. As I always say, all we can do is wait and see.

Yup. All new prime releases will be put into completely new relics. Old releases that are rotated out now only mean their relics no longer drop. They've quite literally adopted the CS:GO crate system (minus the paying for keys part, instead we slam them into fissures)

And with new relics being completely unavailable for pre-farm you now get to spend hours and hours "keyfarming" aka relicfarming when a new release is out, scowering the huge droptable of an excavation mission for that ONE specific relic you need because it's the new one. That is literally the reintroduction of the old RNG table situation, just worse. AND all our collected keys have been nicely bypassed and are forever worthless.

On the positive side of things you can obviously buy relic packs with platinum once a new prime releases and hope you get the new relics out of those #Kappa #FFS /sarcasmOFF

This is yet another HUGE cut into reward acquisition rates, for no reason whatsoever other than to punish anyone trying to play for their rewards as opposed to using the market. NOT good.

[Urlan]

I sadly see this as increased grind as well, which was promised to be reduced. Highly disappointed if this is the case. Honestly, wouldn't be surprised as I was worried something akin to this was going to happen with the threads before Specters or the Rails came out but disappointing none the less.

[bluepheonix13]

21 minutes ago, Jukantos said:

So, Prime Time just announced relics 2.0 for the next prime and "a new way relics will be vaulted".

We will now be "able to" keep our relics and farm the old items attached to them, while new primes are attached to new relics which we unfortunately will not be able to prepare for / farm before those primes are released.

This is quite literally the EXACT thing you promised NOT to do. You said our key collections would be converted, that they would maintain value,

They were converted and remained their value.

21 minutes ago, Jukantos said:

We also still haven't seen the "Relics offered by Baro" as of it.

There has been exactly one Baro visit since then and they said, that he wouldn't bring new stuff.

21 minutes ago, Jukantos said:

 

As for the rest, I think you interpreted something into DE's words, that they didn't say. Also, calm down.

[Neothel]

And again, 2 stops forward 1 backwards (or in this case even 2 or 3)

[matto]

So... You're telling me that next primes will be obtainable by farming entire new keys and that every time a new prime line up is introduced we will get new keys for it?

Like... WTF?

So more drop tables and keys that can't be stockpiled beforehand?

Wait. Like seriously?

I think I'm gonna throw up a little.

Edited July 22, 2016 by matto

[Retrijeuj]

Dunno, that system could be interesting if you'd get like 3 or 4 relics on each map and no more, giving you more chances at getting the one you want, and if refining relics wasn't that long (maybe double the void traces' drop rate ?)

As things stand now, it's a bad idea indeed. But they can make it good if they use their brains and try to grind themselves for a specific prime at least once, just so they could see what a pain it is.

[Jukantos]

Just now, Askell91 said:

DE started to choke theyr own playerbase. Good choice. We will see how long will WF last before its gonna need to shut down becouse of lack of players. 

The worst part is i don't understand why they would do this. Spectres of the Rail NUKED Warframe out of steams top ten. And making things even worse won't help. Not with the new player joining ratio being so small (because of no big scale advertising and still not well optimized new player experience). This looks SO very much like the average Tencent squeezing / "whale"milking tactic, but that's simply not applicable to warframe. The hardcore fans with big enough wallets were already buying prime access, and making people pissed / quit by multiplying grinding won't help their cash influx whatsoever

[GoneBlank]

This is potentially the final straw for a lot of veteran players.

Specifically, a lot of veteran players would use their significant collection of keys (...now relics), accumulated from literally years of grinding, to go straight into new prime part farming - it was literally the only real thing left to do in the game.

Now it seems all that previously accumulated effort will be of no value to new prime part acquisition. You have to start the full grinding process from scratch....

If you are a new player it will probably not make much difference (you don't have that many keys/relics).

This is a bad move - seriously bad move.

I'm not happy if this is the path you plan to go down DE.

 

 

Edited July 22, 2016 by GoneBlank

[Fluff-E-Kitty]

9 minutes ago, Jukantos said:

The worst part is i don't understand why they would do this. Spectres of the Rail NUKED Warframe out of steams top ten. And making things even worse won't help. Not with the new player joining ratio being so small (because of no big scale advertising and still not well optimized new player experience). This looks SO very much like the average Tencent squeezing / "whale"milking tactic, but that's simply not applicable to warframe. The hardcore fans with big enough wallets were already buying prime access, and making people pissed / quit by multiplying grinding won't help their cash influx whatsoever

Well, thay where bought out by Perfect World: the company known for killing its own games and doing all of this kinda of S#&$. they got a lot of players and in turn a lot of investors in DE, and those investors may be demanding payout now. 

I might sound like a conspiracy theorist, but <_<

I super dont like that my keys will be worthless (to me) after the next prime comes out. I have almost everything, other then the most recent stuff. the starmap change was not the worst. the credit nerf was anying but wouldnt have been an isshue for me. This however sucks.

Edited July 22, 2016 by Fluff-E-Kitty

[Fluff-E-Kitty]

1 minute ago, GoneBlank said:

This is a potentially the final straw for a lot of veteran players.

Specifically, a lot of veteran players would use their significant collection of keys (...now relics), accumulated from literally years of grinding, to go straight into new prime part farming - it was literally the only real thing left to do in the game.

Now it seems all that previously accumulated effort will be of no value to new prime part acquisition. You have to start the full grinding process from scratch....

If you are a new player it will probably not make much difference (you don't have that many keys/relics).

This is a bad move - seriously bad move.

I'm not happy if this is the path you plan to go down DE.

 

 

I agree with this fully. Iv been playing for years but now it seems like its lost its soul.

Its like spiral knights all over again.

[Funcooker]

Old system: spend 20 minutes in Void survival for a 5% chance at a new prime part

New system: spend 20 minutes in Derelict survival for a 5% chance of getting the new relic which grants a 2% chance at a new prime part

 

It seems obvious what was coming. I mean, did you really think it would be this easy?
 

[pauli133]

I'm actually quite excited with what I understand the new system to be - new gear means new relics, and those relics will be usable forever. I'll be able to farm the new stuff potentially years after its relics have been vaulted away out of the drop tables.

But, as expected, there's no shortage of reactionaries declaring the sky is falling.

[Rioma]

Man ever since the introduction of Nitain extract the game has been going downhill. If i remember correctly sometime around that time they also got their new Chinese Food Company investors. RIP in pepps Warframe. It's been a fun 2.5 years but it might be time to start investing in a different game. Tomorrow's Dev Stream, the quality of War Within are probably the most important things that will leave an important mark on Warframes history for the rest of its like cycle. 

[AurumandArgentum]

Just now, Fluff-E-Kitty said:

Well, thay where bought out by Perfect World: the company known for killing its own games and doing all of this kinda of S#&amp;&#036;. they got a lot of players and in turn a lot of investors in DE, and those investors may be demanding payout now. 

I might sound like a conspiracy theorist, but <_<

I super dont like that m keys no longer be of any value after the next pack considering I have all of th stuf other then the most recent stuff. 

Valid point there but lets be honest, everything dies, it's only a matter of when.

[(XBOX)BURRITO DEVIL]

Just now, Askell91 said:

DE started to choke theyr own playerbase. Good choice. We will see how long will WF last before its gonna need to shut down becouse of lack of players

"lack of players"

HAHAHAHAHHAHA,oh man,good one

it has maintained an unbearable grind since day 1 and its still going hard,doubt this change is actually going to "change" anything

[RagingGrizzly]

2 minutes ago, pauli133 said:

I'm actually quite excited with what I understand the new system to be - new gear means new relics, and those relics will be usable forever. I'll be able to farm the new stuff potentially years after its relics have been vaulted away out of the drop tables.

But, as expected, there's no shortage of reactionaries declaring the sky is falling.

At least there's someone with a level head here.

[Jukantos]

2 minutes ago, Funcooker said:

Old system: spend 20 minutes in Void survival for a 5% chance at a new prime part

New system: spend 20 minutes in Derelict survival for a 5% chance of getting the new relic which grants a 2% chance at a new prime part

 

It seems obvious what was coming. I mean, did you really think it would be this easy?
 

but it IS easier now, spend XX plat on a relic pack, get the new relic right after release (and after buying 20 relic packs) and then "upgrade" your relic to a 10% chance with the great new void traces system. Even you can now get primes a lot faster (if you BUY a lot of relic packs)

The fact that i called this would happen almost a year ago (i told my pals stuff along the lines of "The Star chart rework will be a massive nerf towards player reward acquisition with a nice skin to dress up the turd" tons of times) and it's now becoming a reality in still unfolding continously harsher steps, when i was the one originally being scolded and laughed at by my buddies, is PAINFULL. You know what makes it extra painfull? My buddies left the game because of previous hits against reward acquisitions, not even this one. HOW FAR are you going to go DE? You've succeeded in removing Warframe out of steams Top 10, now are you strifing to remove it out of the top 20? top 100? lose 10% of the playerbase? lose 20%? 50%?

[matto]

2 minutes ago, pauli133 said:

I'm actually quite excited with what I understand the new system to be - new gear means new relics, and those relics will be usable forever. I'll be able to farm the new stuff potentially years after its relics have been vaulted away out of the drop tables.

But, as expected, there's no shortage of reactionaries declaring the sky is falling.

Because we all know that DE has been so nice from the start with drop chances that we'll be able to stockpile enough keys to use them forever in the time frame they are available <3