So the odds of getting a Rare went down

[Kaotyke]

5 minutes ago, Hybridon said:

Seen posts with screenshots showing people getting 58 traces in 2 man squads, so 2 runs = 100 traces.

Each person makes a radiant relic and thats 2 radiants, on the same squad increasing chances.

Do that in a 4 man squad, done.

Ill do some trace farming and get you a screenshot then.

Did they say if they had a Booster? They likely had a Booster.

The thing now is to make "H>Trace Farm" and run 4 mission with each person using a Relic they have in abundance.

[Fo55il]

This boils down to Tenno utilizing the previous system by sharing keys in clans . . . . and getting a lot of Ducats and Plat for long runs . . survival . . . only one key . . . 4 people rewarded with a lot of sellable prime stuff . . . . . (not profitable for DE!)

Now your clan has become a Blueprint warehouse . . . . and you will only get 1 reward per relic . . .  be it rare or not!.

[Hybridon]

Just now, Venom-Snake said:

Did they say if they had a Booster? They likely had a Booster.

The thing now is to make "H>Trace Farm" and run 4 mission with each person using a Relic they have in abundance.

I managed 44 yesterday with no booster, running solo, with my Nekros.

[Kaotyke]

6 minutes ago, Hybridon said:

I managed 44 yesterday with no booster, running solo, with my Nekros.

Never went above 19.

And we cut the Eximus pretty nicely.

[Madway7]

10 minutes ago, DEATHLOK said:

I've never seen 30 Traces in a single run. From 21-24 is the most I've ever seen. With a Nekros. Without, I've seen 15 at the most, usually less than 10.

Maybe it's dependant on the levels?

Also if a Hydroid was present aswell.

[Mastikator2]

1-0.98^4 = 0.077632

Or 7% chance of getting the rare reward in a squad of 4 players with regular intact relics.

[Ketec]

There are four things i hate about the new system:

1. Not everyone brings a relic in PUG and you wont know until the end
2. Relic gain rate is very low compared to burn rate - which was greatly increased. Once i burn out of the converted ones - i'm more or less forced to stop playing fissures.
3. Repetitive gameplay, made worse by survival or def nodes (10 min, 10 waves etc for 1 reward).
4. traces got a cap (wasted traces when you hit a cap) + you also need them for vault keys.

[DEATHLOK]

4 minutes ago, Hybridon said:

Seen posts with screenshots showing people getting 58 traces in 2 man squads, so 2 runs = 100 traces.

Each person makes a radiant relic and thats 2 radiants, on the same squad increasing chances.

Do that in a 4 man squad, done.

Ill do some trace farming and get you a screenshot then.

I don't know where you went to school, or what game you are playing, but even if I believed you could somehow get 29 Traces in a run, after two runs with the exact same returns, YOU only have 58 Traces. YOU are NOT going to make a Radiant Relic with that. And you cannot combine your Traces with your friend's and somehow create a Radiant Relic, nor can you split them in half so you and your friend are magically playing with 2 Radiant Relics EACH.

You are playing fast and loose with the numbers, as if this were a shell game.

[Hybridon]

Just now, DEATHLOK said:

I don't know where you went to school, or what game you are playing, but even if I believed you could somehow get 29 Traces in a run, after two runs with the exact same returns, YOU only have 58 Traces. YOU are NOT going to make a Radiant Relic with that. And you cannot combine your Traces with your friend's and somehow create a Radiant Relic, nor can you split them in half so you and your friend are magically playing with 2 Radiant Relics EACH.

You are playing fast and loose with the numbers, as if this were a shell game.

58 traces for each person, are you that uneducated?

[artemisfortune]

59 minutes ago, DEATHLOK said:

I don't know where you went to school, or what game you are playing, but even if I believed you could somehow get 29 Traces in a run, after two runs with the exact same returns, YOU only have 58 Traces. YOU are NOT going to make a Radiant Relic with that. And you cannot combine your Traces with your friend's and somehow create a Radiant Relic, nor can you split them in half so you and your friend are magically playing with 2 Radiant Relics EACH.

You are playing fast and loose with the numbers, as if this were a shell game.

Boy oh boy, you are treating this as if it was anything other than a game. I like your enthusiasm and chutzpah, but you should probably direct it elsewhere.  

[Ketec]

Just now, Hybridon said:

58 traces for each person, are you that uneducated?

Somehow i don't believe that.
Had a 4 man slash melee party (to cut them up), hydroid and nekros. average amount  per run 18.

[.Dracula.]

Thread should be locked.

[Hybridon]

2 minutes ago, Venom-Snake said:

Never went above 19.

And we cut the Eximus pretty nicely.

Each trace can give you 1-4, cutting them up in 4 pieces gets you 13 trace drops per mission (1 from the fissure closure), 13 x 4 = 52. Thats what a single player can achieve with Nekros solo. Add in Ivara, and thats another 3 traces. Meaning a max of 64 traces can be obtained on a single 2 run. Obviosuly 58 was a really lucky number, but considering that by doing these runs you are farming ducats, and then you can use ducats to buy a resource booster...

And bring a Smeeta Kavat, if you get the 120s Charm to activate, you get double drops also.

[artemisfortune]

59 minutes ago, Ketec said:

Somehow i don't believe that.
Had a 4 man slash melee party (to cut them up), hydroid and nekros. average amount  per run 18.

I average 34ish when I hunt for them.

[(PSN)tpesconi]

OP was so kind, he forgot that now new primes will have new relics, so, you have to factor all the time you will spend farming for new relics.

Old System:

1. Farm keys at will when you want (it was fun);
2. Farm missions for primes, even on the day 1 of NEW PRIMES when you want (repeat x 20 for each part);

New System:

1. Farm new relics, but not before the day of release of a NEW PRIME; (repeat x 10 for each relic);
2. Run fissures for traces (repeat between x 5 and x 10 for each relic);
3. Run fissues with your radiant relic (if you have have GOOD FRIENDS with the SAME radiant relic, maybe you will only repeat 1 to 3 for 5x times, but if you don't, you will need to repeat 1 to 3 for 15 times for each part, brutal).

How the actual system is better than the last one I fail to understand.

[VanguardT-EN-]

Inb4 lock

[Secave]

The thing I don't like with the new system is that if you win 10-15 traces per run (I never had more than 18 (with a Nekros)) you must do 10x runs, so use 8-10 relics to have enough to make a radiant.

Before -> You're playing long (too long) survival/Defense and have many drops. It cost you 1 key. You can make 4 runs with a 4 quad, because only the host uses his key.
Now -> Sacrifice 7-10 relics to have ONE good relic that don't have many chance to drop what you want. I tried to farm the Nikana Hilt, we tried 5 runs with 4 radiant. Never saw a rare drop.....
So yeah the new system is more grindy asf ! Before SotR i have at least 4x (4x Tower Key) -> 2x chance (rotation C) to have that rare drop.

(sry for my bad english btw, I tried x) )

[Hybridon]

Here, solo run, 29 traces.

And here 4 traces from a single enemy. Meaning I can get up to 16 from that single enemy if lucky enough.

 

If my Smeeta had activated his double resource ability, Those 29 would have been 58. With and ivara in the team thats another 3 traces, add in another 3 Ivaras on a coordinated squad you can get up to 12 traces from the enemies, 1 from the fissure, and 9 from the Ivaras. Thats 22 traces dropping, each ranging from 1-4, so you get 22-88 traces in a single run. With Baro bringing resource boosters for ducats, farming traes isnt hard, only needs a coordinated squad to get more, or go oslo with a Nekros and a nice slash weapon like the Akjagara.

 

[Azrael]

Uhh, 7 to 10 runs per upgraded relic is pretty bad. We get 40 to 45 traces per run with a full squad of 3 ivaras and a nekros. Sometimes over 50, sometimes upper 30's, but usually between 40 and 45. Usually the third run is mostly wasted. One time I got 104 in a single run (good kitty...).

So methinks your math is off. 

[Kothophed]

The first fallacy of the Rift-bashers is looking at missions-per-reward rather than time-per-reward.  In addition, y'all largely ignore quality of time; playing an enjoyable mission is better than playing a dull one for the same amount of time.  While enjoyability is somewhat subjective, rift runs increase many of the elements players want from this game, namely variety in mission type and enemy type, as well as less armor-scaling-cheese and camping.

The second is claiming that rift runs demand full squads more than old void survivals.  You still needed a team to increase spawn rates enough to have consistent life support, and deal with the bullet sponges.  If anything, they have made for more diverse squads than the CC-Trin-Nekros-and-Rhino-with-CP meta of surv-campout.

[Secave]

Never had more than 18 maybe 20. And I don't want to be forced to take 3 Ivara, 2 Hyrdroid or wathever nonsene. When i'll farm with friends, we takes the frame that we like. I like a bit Nekros so i'll do the Desecrate job', It's not that bad. But in the end, never have more than 20. There are no Math. It's what I get to play with friends. 

But i'll will be forced to do the Ivara/Nekros/Hydroid because I don't have so many relics to spare.

[Hybridon]

Just now, Secave said:

Never had more than 18 maybe 20. And I don't want to be forced to take 3 Ivara, 2 Hyrdroid or wathever nonsene. When i'll farm with friends, we takes the frame that we like. I like a bit Nekros so i'll do the Desecrate job', It's not that bad. But in the end, never have more than 20. There are no Math. It's what I get to play with friends. 

But i'll will be forced to do the Ivara/Nekros/Hydroid because I don't have so many relics to spare.

Use a slash weapon, like Akjagara, it rips the enemy into 2-3 pieces, meaning your desecrate will pop up traces from 3 pieces, instead of the one corpse. No need for Hydroid or Ivara to get good amounts of traces.

[Secave]

1 minute ago, Hybridon said:

Use a slash weapon, like Akjagara, it rips the enemy into 2-3 pieces, meaning your desecrate will pop up traces from 3 pieces, instead of the one corpse. No need for Hydroid or Ivara to get good amounts of traces.

I know I know hahaha ! Played that game for 3 years now :p. But Like i Said, It's up to my friends (and my no-luck) if they don't want to take slash weapon, it's up to them ^^.
It's been almost a week that I don't tried to farm. I'll wait for the Fissure system changes.

The thing that I'm disapointed is  the fact that you need to use 2-3 relics (if your farm is good) + the Radiant one to have a % chances for the rare stuff.

[Hesyol]

Once again - it's a matter of tastes. I didn't want to do T4 int, I got tired from T3D quite fast. When I saw some of the new parts were thrown into those missions I just stopped doing void runs and almost stopped playing this game too. So for me, fissures are good news, but I understand that some people liked to do def and int. Dunno why they could not keep both ways of farming

[Redeye]

There are some points I'd like to talk about, OP.

 

1 hour ago, DEATHLOK said:

- You get to farm Void Traces 7 to 10 times for every Relic you want to refine.

- In terms of how many Fissure runs you make total, including all the Trace farming, it looks like your odds go to 1 in 100 with refined keys.

- Right. Now, in terms of all the Fissure missions everyone had to run, your odds are 1 in 25. Just a little worse than before U18. If the awards system isn't bugged, and dividing 16 rolls between 4 players, instead of 4 rolls everyone shares. It's been doing that for the past week.

- You can take the hooks out of your mouth.

 

- As someone said before, I can get up to 40 (most of times 25~30) traces out of one single run.

- I'm not sure how exactly you calculated this but I'm fairly certain it doesn't involve anything remotely close to mathematics or probabilities.

- Once and for all, the odds of at least one of the 4 relics rolling a rare part that has 10%chance dropping is roughly 35% ( 1 - (0.9^4) ) * 100. 34.39%. This is how probabilities work. The *100 at the end is just to turn it into a fancy percentage. As far as I know, the reward bug has been supposedly squashed. Or at least they tried to.

- Feel free to remove the salt from yours. No offense.

 

I'm not blindly following DE on this one since it has its own flaws and they need to be addressed, but at least, for an unpolished attempt, it's not a bad one at all. That is obviously just my opinion. And I'm not saying I'm right and that the ones who dare to think differently should be looked down upon.

 

Edit: "Looked down upon". Is that even gramatically correct? Genuine question.

Edited July 22, 2016 by Schtredeye
Frenglish.