How about we get some one-shot protection?

[Epsik-kun]

inb4 "You are supposed to run Quick Thinking, Primed Flow, Vitality, Steel Fiber, Redirection, Primed Vigor, Rage combo anyway"

[Dumfing]

Note: You got oneshot as nova, by a shotgun, at close range, versus a level 110 enemy.

[Epsik-kun]

2 minutes ago, Dumfing said:

Note: You got oneshot as nova, by a shotgun, at close range, versus a level 110 enemy.

Ah, it's completely justified then. Should've played Ice Chroma I guess, my bad.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Epsik-kun

[Mak_Gohae]

2 minutes ago, Dumfing said:

Note: You got oneshot as nova, by a shotgun, at close range, versus a level 110 enemy.

Yeah, dont stand point blank range with a shotgun enemy.

 

If you want some sort of effect where you are left with 1 hp, i dont see how that is going to help in these kinds of situations. Unless you shield recharge up real high, you are surely going to end up dead, anyway.

[Praxxor]

4 minutes ago, Dumfing said:

Note: You got oneshot as nova, by a shotgun, at close range, versus a level 110 enemy.

You'd get one-shot at that level and nova by pretty much any enemy, which is the main problem genius

[Orthelius]

You played most other MMOs, and they have different classes with different skills that are suited for different things? So you have the tanks who absorb damage, the damage dealers, the healers, the glass cannon mages, the utility buffers?

This is Warframe, but in a smaller team - more dynamic setting. Each Warframe is a different class with different strengths. If all Warframes were built to withstand the highest damage in the game there would be no point to the tanks like Chroma, Valkyr, Rhino and Wukong - instead everyone would play a Utility frame. 

The reason some frames can take more damage than others is down to the kit. Nova provides map-wide crowd control and damage buffs, so she doesn't need to be tanky. Valkyr has only 1 ability that affects allies, and only melee allies, so it makes sense that she can absorb a lot of damage. Trinity has some great damage reduction and heals, so she also doesn't need to be naturally tanky.

Do you see how this isn't an issue with 'Warframe Balance'?

Edited July 29, 2016 by Orthelius

[Epsik-kun]

1 minute ago, Orthelius said:

Do you see how this isn't an issue with 'Warframe Balance'?

I don't. Because no matter what kind of game, setting, idea and concept it is, one-shots were, are and will be an example of a terrible game design.

 

Like I am fine with enemy of level 300 one-shotting people - it's a time to stop progressing, alright.

Level 50 Corrupted Crewman with x3 damage can be encountered almost at the start of current Void Survival. If given a chance, he can one. maybe two-shot Excalibur with Vitality and Steel Fiber through his EBlade. These guys also don't walk around alone. And "not getting close to them" isn't really an option if you play melee. Every single time you approach them, you have to pray that AI won't decide to obliterate you.

Level 100 Corrupted Crewman in Augmented Damage Sortie will one-shot anything short of Inaros, Valkyr and Chroma that tries to melee him.

I normally run Nova with 300/300 stats, as it's the only way to make a good universal build and to have an augment on. As long as dodging and skill involved, you will be fine. But eventually you'll get one-shotted by an auto-aim hitscan something and you won't be able to do a thing about it. It will just happen. You were completely fine during the whole mission, but then you just go and die.

Crewmans aren't the only problem, but they are the most noticeable one for a melee player.

[ashrah]

many frames can get one shoted.... that why many.. players use quick thinking...

[LuckyCharm]

o.o this is only an issue when you're fighting nullifiers. Most frames have ways of ccing or avoiding damage, or taking less damage. Nova is kind of stuck between mostly since it only slows, but even then its slow should theoretically get you out of harms way before shotguns even get that close. 

By the time you get to one-shot territory though wouldn't you kind of call that end game? MMO's always have things that can 1shot you unless you're a tank at that stage of the game. >.> 

[(PSN)Final_Dragon01]

Getting one shotted sucks.  Getting on shotted when you have no idea what killed you sucks more.  Dying in less than a second from anything is not fun or entertaining particularly when it is poorly telegraphed.  These are all problems that stem from difficulty based on effective hp.

In the current system we do need one shot protection.  However if poor scaling fixed and difficulty was not based on effective hp then we would not need one shot protection.

So band aid or real fix.

[(PSN)Mazda_07_]

It's a level 100 plus.... It should one shot you it's a shot gun..  You cant expect the game to be level 300 and do a 1hp damage lol.  In the void by the time you reach level 100 it's been over 50 mins i assume give or take.  That's long enough for the enemy to start making good amount of damage but typically i don't get killed until level 130 and up by than it's all skill and team work.  Which makes it fun. 

[Hopeisdead]

Quick Thinking or how its called comes to mind. altho you end up dead anyway but at least you stumble a bit before that. 

Ah you mentioned that in your inb4. My bad.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Hopeisdead

[Teridax68]

Given the stat-based nature of enemy scaling, that's bound to happen past a certain level threshold, as you mentioned, and I guess making damage ramp up more slowly could help, but really, level 100 enemies are already not that pleasant to fight, as they tend to have far too much durability and damage, yet are the only way Sorties can be remotely difficult against geared up players (and even then, most Sortie missions at that level can be completed in one run). It's not a great way to implement difficulty, but there aren't that many other options, particularly when the enemy system has to be balanced against the possibility of cheese through infinite CC/healing/invisibility/invulnerability/damage/etc.

A user previously suggested using a kind of "shield gate" as a countermeasure, where there'd be a small period of damage immunity once your shields deplete so that you'd get to reposition away from whatever damaged you, which could help immensely in this kind of situation, but in the end the core problem is that it's possible to reach a game state where a single enemy can kill you in one hit, which should never happen in the first place. Power and difficulty scaling need an eventual overhaul, and hopefully one of the outcomes would be difficulty through more challenging enemy compositions, not raw statistical superiority.

[TaylorsContraction]

5 hours ago, Dumfing said:

Note: You got oneshot as nova, by a shotgun, at close range, versus a level 110 enemy.

If you paid attention to the short video, op intentionally stood still to demonstrate the one shot. This will inevitably happen to all frames but wherever this requires a feature that stops it from happening is debatable.

In my experience this happens while casting the cc that protects us the most.

[NeonNemesis]

The example posted by he OP might not be the best, but think on another one, Sorties Corpus tech, they oneshot you with the 1st hit of a rapid fire gun, still it's somewhat doable if there is only 1 maybe two and you noticed them provided they didn't shot at you from the middle of the confusion, but when there's more, and believe me it's not that uncommon, you stand no shot even if you run QT they stagger you till you die cause it's rapid fire gun with each shot being able to 1 hit you.

some stuff like Bursas just burn through QT like it isn't even there.

[Misgenesis]

If enemies couldnt one shot a 300/300 Nova at those levels people would be crying things are too easy.

But i agree that scaling is an issue and completely broken with some enemies. A Tech unit one shotted my 1600 shields on Mag Prime the other day. One shot from a rapid fire weapon.

[Redthirst]

7 hours ago, Orthelius said:

You played most other MMOs, and they have different classes with different skills that are suited for different things? So you have the tanks who absorb damage, the damage dealers, the healers, the glass cannon mages, the utility buffers?

You aren't trying to compare Warframe to traditional MMOs, are you?

Thing is, in traditional MMOs Tanks actually have a way to concentrate enemy attention on themselves, thus meaning that if all goes right, no direct attacks will ever reach Damage Dealers. You can't do that in Warframe. Furthermore, in traditional MMOs, only strong enemies like bosses or particularly strong trash mobs can really one-shot you. In Warframe you can see basic enemies one-shotting less durable Warframes. And even then, healers in Warframe are essentially worthless, because there are usually two states in which your teammates can be: completely fine because they take no damage, and dead in a second because they do.

Thinking about it, it's quite rare to really die in one hit in traditional MMOs. Even if you're playing as a glass cannon you can usually sustain at least 2 hits, which gives your healer a chance to save you. In traditional MMOs you can also clearly see who is the target of enemy attack, so you can respond if you are being targeted. In Warframe, that enemy that was trying to kill your Valkyr the moment before can just turn around and shoot at you for no reason.

[maxedpotato]

this is exactly why people used valkyr.
but hey, obviously everyone used her just to go ''god mode'' and trivialize everything right?>_>
because we have no skill and we wanted to ruin everyone's ingame experience? right?
damn us lazy scumbags for using something to counteract enemy scaling!
how dare we not like getting 1shot after enemies start scaling.

[Golmihr]

The original game wasn't designed to be played at those levels. It's just that with no other options left for something new they started increasing the numbers until most frames get one-shot, you need to use cheesy tactics like the Trinity that constantly almost killed herself with a throw weapon to provide near immunity to her team with blessing or completely removing the enemy's ability to fight back with cc or invisibility and people end up feeling shoe horned into certain builds for endgame. It doesn't matter much though because if just the possible reward is good enough then it's amazing what players will punish themselves with.

 

Personally I would love to see a new damage system where it is all % based with no mob levels. Then difficulty would be based on what type of enemies you encounter.

 

[Thrymm]

8 hours ago, Epsik-kun said:

I don't. Because no matter what kind of game, setting, idea and concept it is, one-shots were, are and will be an example of a terrible game design.

 

Like I am fine with enemy of level 300 one-shotting people - it's a time to stop progressing, alright.

Level 50 Corrupted Crewman with x3 damage can be encountered almost at the start of current Void Survival. If given a chance, he can one. maybe two-shot Excalibur with Vitality and Steel Fiber through his EBlade. These guys also don't walk around alone. And "not getting close to them" isn't really an option if you play melee. Every single time you approach them, you have to pray that AI won't decide to obliterate you.

Level 100 Corrupted Crewman in Augmented Damage Sortie will one-shot anything short of Inaros, Valkyr and Chroma that tries to melee him.

I normally run Nova with 300/300 stats, as it's the only way to make a good universal build and to have an augment on. As long as dodging and skill involved, you will be fine. But eventually you'll get one-shotted by an auto-aim hitscan something and you won't be able to do a thing about it. It will just happen. You were completely fine during the whole mission, but then you just go and die.

Crewmans aren't the only problem, but they are the most noticeable one for a melee player.

 

If you're running 300 health and 300 shields because you aren't willing to equip survivability, there isn't much of an argument to give.  Live in one-shot range, die in one shot.  The counter to this is modding to prevent it.

It's pretty hard to claim a build or playstyle is universally effective when it brings you to the forum to complain about the effects of crewmen.

[(PSN)XxDrakenguardxX]

lol, im just laughing at this. no offense but nova isn't exactly a tank. if she is shes the tank of wet paper.

[Mr.Lube]

The solution to this is NOT to give us one-shot protection. That would merely be a band-aid to the much bigger problem. The problem is the enemy damage/armor/health scaling and how is spikes so hard after a certain point. Fixing this to be more gradual would be a better solution that simply buffing ourselves to be immune to it.

Let me remind everyone that this is the same thing that happened to the Corpus. We were too powerful, and the Corpus became a joke. Instead of fixing the problem of our completely broken energy system, DE added Nullifiers. We all know how that turned out.

[S0V3REiGN]

Not wanting to run a single survival and complaining that you die too fast to high level enemies seems a bit conflicting to me... Although I do think that shields need some looking into, they are too flimsy at best and close to useless at high levels. Plus they don't get any form of damage mitigation outside of some warframe abilities.

Edited July 29, 2016 by S0V3REiGN

[IceColdHawk]

Why even care? You can freely revive anyway.

Anyway, nova is a glass cannon-type frame. Make use of your mprime and parkour skills instead of standing there to avoid such things. In ridiculous levels above 100 you're not supposed to just take a hit with one of the squishiest frames.

[NeithanDiniem]

8 hours ago, Redthirst said:

You aren't trying to compare Warframe to traditional MMOs, are you?

Thing is, in traditional MMOs Tanks actually have a way to concentrate enemy attention on themselves, thus meaning that if all goes right, no direct attacks will ever reach Damage Dealers. You can't do that in Warframe. Furthermore, in traditional MMOs, only strong enemies like bosses or particularly strong trash mobs can really one-shot you. In Warframe you can see basic enemies one-shotting less durable Warframes. And even then, healers in Warframe are essentially worthless, because there are usually two states in which your teammates can be: completely fine because they take no damage, and dead in a second because they do.

Thinking about it, it's quite rare to really die in one hit in traditional MMOs. Even if you're playing as a glass cannon you can usually sustain at least 2 hits, which gives your healer a chance to save you. In traditional MMOs you can also clearly see who is the target of enemy attack, so you can respond if you are being targeted. In Warframe, that enemy that was trying to kill your Valkyr the moment before can just turn around and shoot at you for no reason.

We don't have the strict traditional system, but the idea is entirely the same here. Nova is alone in this fight, so obviously she would be targeted. Nova is not a frame that can take a hit easily at higher levels, she requires more careful play with the compromise of having several pretty high damage abilities. She does fit the glass canon trope. Plenty of trash mobs that out level you in other MMO games can oneshot you, so no idea what kind of games you've been playing. Your frame is a level 30, that enemy is a level 110. If you had the same proportion of difference in any other MMO you'd be killed pretty much instantly. Your comparison for healers in Warframe is way off, as most players at any one time aren't in the situations where being one shot is a problem, and a good number of them are in the content that is considered mid tier where general healing works just fine. Its quite rare in other MMOs to go facing enemies that are ridiculously higher leveled than you as well, so again your comparison is off. And just because other games have convenient aggro meters or in-the-way UI graphics that show you who is attacking who doesn't mean those games also don't have the same frustrations of enemies switching targets randomly. Warframe just doesn't do the rather dumb trope in games to force enemies to always shoot the heavy guy first instead of the far weaker and more vulnerable damage dealers. Instead you have to use skills to make that happen, and most of the time those skills are on the frames that are not as tanky because they need those skills more.