Specters of the Rail: U2.1 - Nekros Changes

[Matt89Connor]

we need to modify this decay...reduce % or change from % to number of health scale with levels,or a lifesteal for undeads. The undeads need time for help the warframe and nekros has to play not spamming every 20 seconds the same abilites, and search like a dog for energy

[Kialandi]

10 hours ago, Klarbauter said:

Sounds like you want every weapon and every frame to be the best against any enemy.

Yeah corpus have so many melee units,right, i forgot, and it is not like the ability now priorities the best enemys you killed.

Thats why you have secondary weapons you could use to kill nullies and switch back to your main weapon, lazy people nowadays.

Well if you can't use BOW or SNIPER RIFLE in what is supposed to be a STEALTH game...

 

Yeah, Moas are so intelligent. Their IQ is so high that they usually run right towards you and swarm you like infested.

Or Ospreys...Just flying 100% randomly.

 

You still need high fire rate weapon. Kinda limiting, isn't it?

 

I don't think there is a point in our discussion. You will defend Nullifiers no matter what we say. They are (from some reason) perfect in your eyes.

Yet 98/100 people see flaws in their design.

Edited August 14, 2016 by Kialandi

[Klarbauter]

57 minutes ago, Kialandi said:

Well if you can't use BOW or SNIPER RIFLE in what is supposed to be a STEALTH game...

You still need high fire rate weapon. Kinda limiting, isn't it?

I don't think there is a point in our discussion. You will defend Nullifiers no matter what we say. They are (from some reason) perfect in your eyes.

Yet 98/100 people see flaws in their design.

It is supposed to be a stealth game? Oh boy, funny.

Pls dont put words in my mouth. I respect your opinion.

Btw. this thread derailed.

[munchpork]

So here I am after almost a day of testing different builds for nekros ..and shadows of the dead definitely works for him now.. after the rework BUT the thing i Noticed very fast after using nekros' desecrate is that nekros' desecrate takes too long to 'desecrate the dead bodies/body parts'  if you are an old player you know that different factions has a different timer on how long their bodies stays before they are gone ... and different status kills also changes the timer it has like ember's world one fire with burn status that decreases the timer on those things, gas, etc etc  I just hope DE every time you rework something balance everything that it affects ..BALANCE , aren't you reworking things just  cause you want no op things like press 4 to kill or those one trick ponies you want things to be balanced
now nekros desecrate takes too long to desecrate and i don't even have the time to desecrate those bodies or body parts cause they go out so fast (the timer on how long those bodies stays)
PLS DE rebalance the timer for those things !! for goat sakes infested bodies lasts only 3s and i need at least 4seconds to desecrate one dead body takes that long yes if you arent paying attention

[Rioma]

It is probably working as intended in DE's mind. But I would put it in the bug section of the forum because if it's true that certain enemies don't even have a chance to be desecrated when they definitely should you could consider it a bug maybe. 

[Kialandi]

25 minutes ago, Klarbauter said:

It is supposed to be a stealth game? Oh boy, funny.

Pls dont put words in my mouth. I respect your opinion.

Btw. this thread derailed.

Yes, we are "ninjas" so it is supposed to be a stealth game. Or we can just make it some Battlefield.

 

I don't put words in your mouth. You disapproved everything we said against Nullies. So unless you can see flaws, it means they are flawless (synonym "perfect").

I do respect your opinion. But i think we can agree that we will never agree on this topic.

 

 

[Wolfnrun]

4 hours ago, Matt89Connor said:

we need to modify this decay...reduce % or change from % to number of health scale with levels,or a lifesteal for undeads. The undeads need time for help the warframe and nekros has to play not spamming every 20 seconds the same abilites, and search like a dog for energy

Since we were told , ORIGINALLY that SotD woul no longer be duration based, let's it have it effiecny and strength based instead

Spoiler

Still want the drain gone, mind you

 

[F4talFr4me]

Well all i can say is at least its not Nyx 4th that just..does nothing..really.

Edited August 14, 2016 by F4talFr4me

[kuchn]

i bet they have not even given a thought to this aspect

and they won't

:D

[Wolfnrun]

18 hours ago, Zerathos_Dagon said:

* Soul Punch:
Really don't have a clue about this one to be honest. It's ok-ish as far as balance goes, but like a lot of other first abilities, it's just kinda meh somehow. I think it's because of the fact it's an iffy single-target ability that doesn't have much impact? Maybe make it an energy projectile that travels in a short line and affects all enemies hit? I dunno.

I think we should push the limit's of what a 1st ability can do, instead of just saying "Well, it's a first ability so of course it's going to stink! what else did you expect?" 

[Death_Master_]

5 hours ago, Matt89Connor said:

The undeads need time for help the warframe and nekros has to play not spamming every 20 seconds the same abilites, and search like a dog for energy

20 sec? I need use ult every 7-10 sec to keep them alive.

[F4talFr4me]

3 minutes ago, Death_Master_ said:

20 sec? I need use ult every 7-10 sec to keep them alive.

same here. if i use anything other than full efficiency mods my desecrate will burn my energy dry.

[TaylorsContraction]

16 hours ago, Klarbauter said:

They dont run into the nullifiers, they shoot it. So should you ;)

Imagine how boring it would be without nullies or if they would work differently. No challenge at all.

I'm imagining how boring it would be without nullifiers, and it doesn't seem boring at all. I played this game long before nulls were introduced and had fun then. I still have fun now but nulls definitely diminished the quality of said fun. Nulls were introduced to stop viver gates but viver gates simply moved to grineer tile sets. Ergo, they achieved nothing other than for me personally being cornered into zenurik because they constantly strip the buffs off my banshee.

Edited August 14, 2016 by TaylorsContraction
Typos

[Zoracraft]

I've been running Ani in the void specifically because it never spawns nullifiers, and it's been so much fun to actually have consistency with my powers. 

Not necessarily easier, mind you, as more ancients and heavies spawn in the nully's place, but way more fun than any corpus or high level void survival I've run in the past year. 

Nullies just kick any warframe that isn't that good into the dirt. One of the reasons banshee is so reviled is because she is hard countered by nullies. It's not like she's that good without them: She has the durability of rotting tissue paper, and her only CC abilities either have no continuing effect, or lock her in place. But at least she can do damage... Before she gets downed. But of course, nullies don't give a crap about how hard it is to play banshee, they just make everything good about her completely irrelevent.

So why would you ever bring Banshee to the void?

Thats the real problem with nullies. Not the "challenge" they provide,  but how much they funnel everything into things that are good at killing them, and things/frames that get butchered by them. The good stuff becomes the crap everyone and their mother wants nerfed (because balancing weapons based on popularity is totally a good idea), while the bad stuff just gets forgotten (we have a water frame?). 

They just breed negativity in both gameplay and community, and their removal, while being shocking to some, would greatly repair the "fun" factor of the game. In the end, that's what games are supposed to do, right?

[AkioKasai]

The health decay seems a little too high to be honest, and I question if it's even needed in the first place. That being said, if DE was going to go this route, why not at least create some additional synergy with the rest of the kit?

If SoD is going to have Health Decay, why don't Health Orbs heal a percentage of their Health to extend it's duration and add a synergy effect with Desecrate? Why don't they receive 50%+ Health back when you kill an enemy using Soul Punch(effectively stealing their life force for your minions)?

The health decay just feels so strong(Mostly because it adds onto the damage they're already receiving from enemies) without really having good ways of counteracting it other than stopping every seven to ten seconds to be sure your units are topped off and avoid the long cast animation, and this honestly just makes it feel like Desecrate has been moved to 4 instead of 3.

Otherwise, I like the Nekros changes though. o.ob

[Me.Greedy]

Yeah, this needs looked at for sure.

[ashrah]

i use p.continuty helps a lot.. but i think they should remove hp drain

[ranks21]

reworks = take take  take away with no returns or replenishing. ( priceless)

[F4talFr4me]

16 minutes ago, ranks21 said:

reworks = take take  take away with no returns or replenishing. ( priceless)

Indeed. sadly.

[Eldritchsqueaker]

They can't keep ignoring all the outcry forever can they?

[F4talFr4me]

21 minutes ago, Eldritchkitty said:

They can't keep ignoring all the outcry forever can they?

I think they can.. they done it with nullifiers, they can do it with everything.

[F4talFr4me]

Im fine with the speed.. i think the natural talant makes it faster? but the % chance and energy drain is horrific. 54% chance of getting loot on a 3rd skill that does nothing for actual combat. then add the fact it gets no loot and it takes your energy. a whole 10 energy per ONE corpse.

 

Bad move.

Edited August 14, 2016 by F4talFr4me

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

Nekros might be fine, but there is no reason to not wish for better. A real rework should be something no one can argue is lacking---> EXCALIBUR AND FROST. When you get the op feedback, look at what context it is op in and then tune it down there (fall off over distance on EB was great, but it probably should have been also just on charge attacks or at the end of combos and not on every attack-that was a suggestion i saw-but that's not the point here)

Iv always envisioned desecrate to give health and loot in another way--->through synergy with terrify.

That way desecrate can be it's own ability. Because it should be.

This is my over active imagination proposing an idea for desecrate.

Desecrate also "stuns" enemies that come into contact with Nekros desecrate aura by spawning souls that reach out of the ground, and try to hold them down and looks something like banshees silence effect. It's really just a quick stun, but cast at the same time as fear, it will see enemies ripping away from these tortured souls, losing health, ammo, loot AND armor---> or fear can keep the armor reduction.

Casting shadow punch on an enemy affected by this new desecrate will see their soul blasted our of their body, and one of the souls from desecrate will take over their body, fighting for you for a short duration---> this shouldn't cause anymore lag than inaros sand shadows.

In my mind, Desecrate should not just be a pop corn corpse defiling ability.

Someone else or else's made an awesome suggestion that souls of the dead should prioritize terrified enemies

AND

You should be able to order your souls to charge, or to escort ---> please listen to thses guys.

AND

That soul punch should have an aoe.

I imagine something like oberons one, but it has an impact/explosion like embers fireball (but looked cooler than both) 

AND

7 shadows may be the limit for low endcomputers in a team setting, but there is no reason to limit a SOLO nekros who will suffer from that limitation in the same way when there is no team to worry about causing to lag.

AND 

Have health decay not start until the duration for Souls of the dead has ended-some one else's idea

And

Fear should not cause enemies to run halfway a cross a tileset, and should probably have a duration affected by power strength....me.

If you read all of that, anyone else or even someone from DE, I sincerely hope I am not being overbearing. This is just an idea, among all the other great ideas and is not special by itself. But please do not just look at nekros one time and leave him this way.

Edited August 14, 2016 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO
Edit-i will find these peoples names

[Eldritchsqueaker]

1 hour ago, F4talFr4me said:

I think they can.. they done it with nullifiers, they can do it with everything.

This is something that can directly affect prime access sales though.

[(PSN)B0XMAN517]

"Don't fix what isn't broken". I get the whole permabeta thing, but this frame has been centered around desecrate for 3 years. We have support frames, we have damage frames, buff frames, cc frames, tank frames, and a loot boost frame. Nekros was in a very good place and did not need a rework.