Specters of the Rail: U2.1 - Nekros Changes

[AperoBeltaTwo]

Honestly, the only fault I see in the current nekros is that his abilities eat an awful lot of energy. I dislike the rapid speed of shadows' decay, but on top of that you have to spend 100 energy every time to heal them. That's a lot for an ability that you're supposed to spam. I'd say if DE could split the energy consumption between 7 shadows that would solve the problem partially. Flso if the could reduce the energy cost of healing the existing shadows (say by 75% or even by half) that would be pretty logical. Also to reach the resistance's max potential nekros requires 214 (-ish) strenght. That's A LOT to mod for. You can only get there with the blind rage and with already extremely energy-expensive abilities that's a disaster for any build. Or at least halve the decay, pls. Togglable desecrate freed the players hands - that's true and good but with any proper build you still have to spam the ult because shadows die EXTREMELY fast and duration doesn't really help with that.

ps
Casting speed of both the desecrate and the shadows is absolutely terrible without the natural talent mod (i heard a proposal of putting that mod into the exilus slot - that would also be very useful and logical IMHO). And the ult you have to spawn - that's ridiculous.

Edited September 3, 2016 by AperoBeltaTwo

[LunarEdge7]

30 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

-snip-

This is the current problem I face as well. Eats too much just to heal them.

[Pr0totype9979]

18 hours ago, ObjectM said:

say this again when your main frame was nerfed.

will wait for banshee to get a nerf then LOL

[IRVoidGuru]

6 hours ago, F4talFr4me said:

WHAT? "made his other skills more appealing" you say? how? nerfing his only 2 skills anyone ever used? if the first skill he has EVER looks "appealing" then thats when you know Nekros is 100% officialy dead. (he was pretty much before this NERF").

Give me what you are smoking please. i seriously shocked you can write anything posative about a nerf to a already weak frame. do you even know what "make other skills more appealing" even means? they are STILL USELESS!.

desecrate was changed. i don't see this change as a nerf, you get the HP orbs and energy orbs you need to Keep his build running. i hate to say but Shadows Needed its change my build alone was forcing lag onto others just for running with me all they need to do to make up for this is a Slight damage increase to the 7 shadows remaining.

Soul punch could be so much more then it is now , casting it on enemies could give you that enemy as a shadow for next cast. holding the power on a shadow could shut down that shadow if you don't that shadow.

it seems what im smoking has given me a better capability to use what you cant, this frames changes are good and need Minor tweaks witch include

Power Synergy between Soul Punch and Shadows of the Dead.

Shadows could use a Slightly lower base Hp decay over time ( from 3-2.5)

Shadows need a Slightly increased damage to make up for the numbers loss.

the only thing i can think of as to why the HP decay doesn't bother me , but does bother others. is the fact that i got Arcane Pulse , but im pretty sure its not healing my shadows , and even if it did. it feels like with how much their HP is, that it would be a Minor help. if it even affects them.

take a puff and get back to me !

Edited September 3, 2016 by (PS4)IrSchm33

[IRVoidGuru]

Id like to start by saying i love everything about the new shadows update other then my build's loss of 11 shadows ( 18-7) but all in all Great Rework DE!

And with this change and the prime access video my friend came up with an idea too nice to not post. So lets start with shadows are now limited to 7 and choosing your shadows is no longer possible with the new rework ( witch i kinda didn't mind ). But as a thought what if Soul Punch saved a permanent copy of an enemy type by casting it on that enemy saving it for your next Shadows of the Dead. And have that copy scale to the mission's lvl when casting them through shadows of the dead, allowing you to choose the army of 7 you want !

After much thought into this we came up with ideas and limiters and id like any ideas or feedback on all of this if you can !

 

Casting Soul Punch on an enemy saves a Soul imprint of that enemy, example: using soul punch on a Heavy Gunner will save that enemy for your Next cast 

Only a total of 7 Soul imprints can be saved, with no more then 2 of any enemy type ( cant have 3 heavy gunners or 7 ancient healers ect.)

Add a Minor Shield damage and HP increase to shadows created from Soul imprints, we figured that the energy used from soul punch should be repayed by a stat bonus, during the debate another comment  made was that the imprint itself would be the payback your getting for that energy used.

It was debated about weather the shadow imprints would be used on casting shadows of the Dead or if they would remain as permanent imprints for Each Cast. and if the imprints would remain there would obviously be some farther additions witch include imprint scaling to match the lvl of the mission ( for endless missions mainly ) 

Making a new imprint beyond the 7th will destroy your least recently made shadow imprint. allowing for army customization

Dying in mission will cause the loss of ALL Shadow imprints

It was debated weather nullifyers would take away shadow imprints saved or not. and if not, why?. the Reason stated for losing them was that the Souls would be saved on Nekros himself, holding that soul is a void power that would be diminished on contact to a nullifyer

Creating imprints of Eximus Enemies will create a non-eximus version imprint for Shadows of the Dead, allowing nekros to be useful again in Eximus stronghold missions.

Players should be able to Cast (and hold) soul punch on a shadow they own to Remove that shadow from life or replace it with a heavy Unit or a shadow Imprint.

Casting Shadows Using Imprints does NOT require the original Target to be Dead, only imprinted.

If any one from DE actually reads this we would also like you to consider allowing ONE eximus Unit per Shadows of the dead aloud in the army 

Id like to make it Clear that these are in addition to the current change not instead of, meaning if you save 0 imprints you still get a full 7 shadows. imprinted shadows summon first then the remaining summon as randomized enemy types as normally intended. example: i have 2 heavy gunners saved as imprints and that's all, the remaining 5 out of 7 shadows will randomize into any enemy killed in mission)

any feedback on this would be awesome and ty for your time in reading this and posting to it. have a good day !

Edited September 3, 2016 by (PS4)IrSchm33

[IRVoidGuru]

8 hours ago, LunarEdge7 said:

For the army ability. I want Soul Punch to be able to take out which shadow you no longer want. Maybe make it so that you'll need to hold down 1 to dispatch the shadow you don't need.

i loved this comment and added it into the synergy ideas i have posted tyvm for your inventive feedback

[LunarEdge7]

45 minutes ago, (PS4)IrSchm33 said:

i loved this comment and added it into the synergy ideas i have posted tyvm for your inventive feedback

Thank you. And I like the ideas you're thumpin' out, especially your concern for balance in this part: "Only a total of 7 Soul imprints can be saved, with no more then 2 of any enemy type ( cant have 3 heavy gunners or 7 ancient healers ect.)".

I definitely would love having the capability of choosing which enemies you want to be part of your shadow army.

 

[IRVoidGuru]

10 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

they could have at least limited it to 10 shadows and then had a 10 energy cost per each shadow....I find it highly highly unlikely 7 was anything but the number they just chose because reasons.

 

i really like the idea of taking a number of energy per shadow to summon (base being 10) and a possible consideration for more shadows. but the only reason i say that is i miss my 11 shadows who are now lost to me forever. and possibly only take a percentage of the energy away to heal them based on how much HP they have actually lost.

or just have it cost Half the summon cost to heal shadows. i do agree its a bit messed up that it takes a necromancer the same amount of energy to Heal already risen shadows as it takes him to Rise those shadows.

[F4talFr4me]

Everyone who said "why they take muh shadows?" its 7 for a reason. consoles cant handle it so they took them away. its not for balance reasons its simply for performance reasons. so stop asking why they limited them. (even tho 4 nekros would still cause this problem and dident solve anything.)

Edited September 3, 2016 by F4talFr4me
spelling

[IRVoidGuru]

19 hours ago, Plasmaface said:

My main frame was Nova before she got nerfed. I still play her frequently. I just got over it. 

a comment so nice it should be seen twice +1

[IRVoidGuru]

19 hours ago, Plasmaface said:

Both in the Case of Nova and Nekros, reasonable changes were made that could be considered nerfs if you insist on taking a binary stance. 

But the truth of the matter is that both frames were simply rebalanced to create a more unified experience.

If you think that just sounds like gibberish, you can look back to my mini-essay length comment.

i agree with all of this lol and the consistency. yes to all of this.+1

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

20 hours ago, ObjectM said:

say this again when your main frame was nerfed.

My main was Blessing Trinity. She got nerfed. I still use her. I dealt with it. Saryn was my second main. She got reworked, and I dealt with it. In fact, for Saryn I absolutely love her rework more than her previous incarnation.

Nekros is in a different position, however, since he's technically not in the meta unless bonus looting is concerned. Still, with his recent rework, it's just a couple of minor touch-ups that need to be addressed (like boosting the loot chance to Desecrate, or some QoL considerations to SotD's Health Decay, Shadow minion numbers and/or stat multipliers) and he'll be in a better place than he is now.

edit: The idea of simply "reverting changes" like Nekros' "Press3toDesecrate" spam for the sake of gaining back an increased consistency and percentage to bonus loot isn't progressive. And really, personally, I'd much rather have health orbs spawning more than loot is concerned to trigger my Arcane Pulse set. :V

Edited September 3, 2016 by (PS4)Lei-Lei_23
Addendum

[F4talFr4me]

Of course they wont revert changes.. and by changes i mean nerfs to already poor frames nobody used before, and nobody will use now, especially after hammering the last nails in the coffin.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

1 hour ago, F4talFr4me said:

Everyone who said "why they take muh shadows?" its 7 for a reason. consoles cant handle it so they took them away. its not for balance reasons its simply for performance reasons. so stop asking why they limited them. (even tho 4 nekros would still cause this problem and dident solve anything.)

Never had the issue, though I have been playing solo for a long time. Itd be nice, though unfair, if solo nekros had more. I dont understand how they were able to run old dark sectors, but can't run this...

It's the updates taking up space if anything...

[The_Stalker]

2 hours ago, F4talFr4me said:

Everyone who said "why they take muh shadows?" its 7 for a reason. consoles cant handle it so they took them away. its not for balance reasons its simply for performance reasons. so stop asking why they limited them. (even tho 4 nekros would still cause this problem and dident solve anything.)

You sure about that? Cause people are still having that issue even with just 7 shadows.

[F4talFr4me]

14 minutes ago, .The_Stalker. said:

You sure about that? Cause people are still having that issue even with just 7 shadows.

Hey im dont make the patches or give reasons as to why this happened. DE are the ones who messed up the rework. (probs buggy coding, they like fixing somet and breaking another)

[(PSN)salovel1991]

It's been 24 days DE. Please just change something. For Christ's sake I STILL have shadows getting caught in Bastille AND being sucked into Vortex. Also please just lower health decay or get rid of it along with the expensive costs to recast SotD. You told us this wouldn't be duration based. Why do I have to keep begging for fixes to glitches that interfere with gameplay? Why am I still being shot by Napalms and Scorches? I run Shadows so much less than before because they're so unappealing now.  Also I still have shadows dying mid cast in the quick animation. I mean the instant you start the animation they're supposed to heal right? So why do they die in the healing animation? This costs me a full length cast and full energy cost after cast when the first cast was supposed to heal my shadow. It would be okay if it didn't happen 3-4 times a match. I'm just hoping someone at DE is out there listening but my faith is running low. I'm glad I haven't bought anything in a really long time in this game. 

[(PSN)salovel1991]

22 hours ago, Plasmaface said:

I have not experienced any problems with it's speed, but if you wanted that change, you should have suggested it from the start.

I actually noticed mine being buggy today. In instances where I would slash an enemy it would cut them into pieces it would do the delayed casting as if it was desecrating an enemy at a later time instead of the "popcorn" effect. It happened about 8-10 times in one mission. Even when there were two enemies it delayed by about 3-4 seconds between each enemy killed. I've never had a problem with it before today. 

[PsychoticMarik]

3 hours ago, F4talFr4me said:

Everyone who said "why they take muh shadows?" its 7 for a reason. consoles cant handle it so they took them away. its not for balance reasons its simply for performance reasons. so stop asking why they limited them. (even tho 4 nekros would still cause this problem and dident solve anything.)

Considering the fact that lowering the shadow count has not actually solved the performance issue I'm anything but convinced this was done specifically for performance reasons.

Not to mention the sheer amount of enemies that are on screen nearly all the time has never been adjusted for performance issues(correct me if I'm wrong). Seems far more likely its a problem with the actual ability coding itself. Tho they would never admit to it.

Edited September 3, 2016 by PsychoticMarik

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

45 minutes ago, PsychoticMarik said:

Considering the fact that lowering the shadow count has not actually solved the performance issue I'm anything but convinced this was done specifically for performance reasons.

Not to mention the sheer amount of enemies that are on screen nearly all the time has never been adjusted for performance issues(correct me if I'm wrong). Seems far more likely its a problem with the actual ability coding itself. Tho they would never admit to it.

I never seen actual issues with old shadows on ps4 and I've been in a game with 60 shadows (3 nekroses... necroi? nekrii?). New shadows I've seen causing framerate drops though.

I say it's just false. Like kohm, which was ruined and turned into completely different weapon type with no refunds offered. 

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

On 9/2/2016 at 6:38 PM, ObjectM said:

say this again when your main frame was nerfed.

Mesa main here. Played her when she was unstoppable, nerfed (fixed, really) and I am here now. You can either accommodate to change or find another game. Warframe is constantly evolving, changing, balancing and fixing stuff.

"Market forces dictate that you need to evolve or die" - Alad V

[zehne]

On 9/2/2016 at 3:41 PM, Plasmaface said:

My main frame was Nova before she got nerfed. I still play her frequently. I just got over it. 

^

Giving MP propagation time and making it scale off of duration made the days of Press 4 and watch a chain reaction rip through 3 rooms go bye-bye.

HUGE NERF. ABSOLUTELY HUMONGOUS NERF.

Nekros 'nerf' is an ant compared to the MP change.  I still love nova and still play nova alot.

[akira_him]

with this change my nekros can finally join the combat instead of watching and spamming 3, so no. 

[F4talFr4me]

^ yeh now you spam 4 to keep ur minions alive while watching next to no loot appear on your screen due to severe nerf to desecrate. want to use that super fun 1 and 2 skills? i hear EVERYONE specs into them because they so fun and imaginative. id rather have the old lootbot 3 button mashing back.. at least he was good at something.

[akira_him]

well if you consider hitting 4 every 30-ish seconds is a spam, then there will be no discussion. And terrify is god class panic button. Soul punch is soul punch and never get updated since release.