Relics and the new void... its unfair and broken.

[Proxykon]

13 hours ago, morningstar999 said:

we should have both ways to earn prime parts, both old and new- not one or the other.

Now how is that supposed to work? I am seriously interested.

13 hours ago, morningstar999 said:

instead of earning 1-10 parts (each) for one key we earn 1 piece each for 4 relics

So far, the only Void 1.0 keys you could get more than one reward from was Interception, Defense, Sabotage and Survival. I agree, DE needs to do something about the Void 2.0 endless missions, but how is using four relics for one part you need different from doing a keyshare in Void 1.0? You would effectively use four keys in the end, of which three aren't even yours. You would only loose one key. Same with the relics.

13 hours ago, morningstar999 said:

only given a small amount each run (10-20 randomly at the end)

You're mistaken. The random void traces reward given out at the opening of a relic lies between 6 and 50 void traces per relic. I have had many runs with more than 20 void traces.

13 hours ago, morningstar999 said:

if we had a chance of picking it up like before and a chance of earning more as we went this would be better

Earning more void traces should be integrated into endless missions somehow. Endurance should be rewarded.

13 hours ago, morningstar999 said:

part of earning prime parts is what used to make it fun, you felt like you achieved something -but now it would take me 4 times longer to do so, earning things is no longer fun.

Are you kidding me? Nekros didn't even release 24h ago and I needed to farm all relics for myself, but I already have 3/4 parts. If anything, the system is much quicker. How long would you need for a vauban prime chassis in T4 Def Rotation C?

13 hours ago, morningstar999 said:

at this rate warframe will become a pay-to-win game, the fact it isn't is part of what makes war-frame so good but apparently DE is getting greedy.

Warframe has NEVER been pay-to-win and will NEVER be pay-to-win. This game is PvE. I find it very funny that people mistake spending money in a game for paying for better ingame statistics. You are not winning in Warframe if you are paying real money for it. You are just circumventing longer waiting times. And some people just want to support DE and the development of Warframe, so who can blame them.

And the last clause is just straight up dev bashing.

[Aeon94]

5 minutes ago, Proxykon said:

Now how is that supposed to work? I am seriously interested.

So far, the only Void 1.0 keys you could get more than one reward from was Interception, Defense, Sabotage and Survival. I agree, DE needs to do something about the Void 2.0 endless missions, but how is using four relics for one part you need different from doing a keyshare in Void 1.0? You would effectively use four keys in the end, of which three aren't even yours. You would only loose one key. Same with the relics.

You're mistaken. The random void traces reward given out at the opening of a relic lies between 6 and 50 void traces per relic. I have had many runs with more than 20 void traces.

Earning more void traces should be integrated into endless missions somehow. Endurance should be rewarded.

Are you kidding me? Nekros didn't even release 24h ago and I needed to farm all relics for myself, but I already have 3/4 parts. If anything, the system is much quicker. How long would you need for a vauban prime chassis in T4 Def Rotation C?

Warframe has NEVER been pay-to-win and will NEVER be pay-to-win. This game is PvE. I find it very funny that people mistake spending money in a game for paying for better ingame statistics. You are not winning in Warframe if you are paying real money for it. You are just circumventing longer waiting times. And some people just want to support DE and the development of Warframe, so who can blame them.

And the last clause is just straight up dev bashing.

pretty much everything u said + 1

[Nijyumensou]

12 minutes ago, Proxykon said:

You're mistaken. The random void traces reward given out at the opening of a relic lies between 6 and 50 void traces per relic. I have had many runs with more than 20 void traces.

From what we know, it was 6 to 30. You could probably have smeeta that boost it or someone with resource booster in your team.

[Proxykon]

Just now, Nijyumensou said:

From what we know, it was 6 to 30. You could probably have smeeta that boost it or someone with resource booster in your team.

I've had no smeeta kavat with me in the latest runs I did and I'm not very sure if I gathered more than 30 traces. But what I know for sure is that I witnessed a friend and myself collecting 50 traces once without any boosters. That may have changed until recently but I cannot confirm until I did some more runs.

[Nijyumensou]

1 minute ago, Proxykon said:

I've had no smeeta kavat with me in the latest runs I did and I'm not very sure if I gathered more than 30 traces. But what I know for sure is that I witnessed a friend and myself collecting 50 traces once without any boosters. That may have changed until recently but I cannot confirm until I did some more runs.

sure! do make a topic on player helping player section if you have managed to gather enough evidence of it since that would mean it is possible to farm 400(or at least 200) void trace in a run. Thanks alot.

[-Blaze-]

I find farming for ducats with the new system...weird.

Before you could get several junk parts per run. Now you only get one.

Edited August 24, 2016 by -Blaze-

[Omnimorph]

Welcome to Infested Farm, formerly known as Void Farm.

[Stonehenge]

5 hours ago, (PS4)adrian80 said:

Warframe is grind. If that's not your cup of tea, then this game might not be for you.

Like someone else said, at least the scenery changes while you're doing it with the new system.

No, please get rid of this kind of argument. "It is the way it is, if you do not like it move on"

The point is, the new void system is incredibly more grindy than the old one, the author of the topic is absolutely right, and now it is as simple as that : if you have a life, a job, and not 8 hours a day to spend in farm, you are **cked. You just have to throw your Visa to the screen.

It's a bit ironic coming frome me, a few days ago i was defending the new void on forums, like a dumb. I didnt have all the informations, my bad, and thought angry people were exagerating. Now i have the big picture under my nose and bloody crap i should have SHUT my mouth.

All this new system of progression wall and grind has to be reworked. Old void was boring some time to time (of course, anything you do 150 times in a day gets boring) but you could share keys, it was more challenging, and transforming 100 void farm into 1000 shorter void farm is not "reducind void fatigue", DE. (The only cool thing is you get Formas much faster and easier than before.)

And now with every prime acces they reset your relics with new to farm again, making all you already have completely useless for the latest prime. What is it, if it's not an incredibly brutal way of pushing you to the cash ? Like they absolutely needed that ! They are just getting extremely greedy. I'm done with that. I was completely wrong, angry people are right : new void, relics and prime farm now definitely suck.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Stonehenge

[(PSN)Lacifarus1188]

15 hours ago, Tricky5hift said:

Yeah the challenge was not falling asleep during the same 20 min survival you just did like 30 times before and got nothing you wanted from.

Old system can suck it. The new relic system just needs better conversion methods.

Nailed it. I feel we should get all of the rewards or at least pick 2. The endless missions were annoying but at least you get rewarded for them. This one reward crap and the amount of relics you have to do just to get traces to have a one shot radiant is very inefficient. I feel the grind for the relics themselves isn't bad, its just everything you have to do afterwards doesn't reflect the chance of actually getting the rare part you need.

[morningstar999]

3 hours ago, ShadowFox14 said:

People are saying that the new system is better than the old one, because you can get your desired reward easily. Well, I had 83 LITH S1 Relics when they got converted. Got a few one, but didn't keep track of it, so I'll count only 60 used relic. 40 of those were radiant (this number I know) and I wanted to get a Spira Prime Pouch. Guess how many of those I got. If you guessed 0, you were right. I got exactly 0 of the item that I wanted out of 60+ runs.

Tell me more about how much easier it is to get what you want, and you how this system has less RNG than the old one.

 

this is another problem the drop rares for rare items are bull and even when you up it to radient (which will take you 10-20 runs to do) it still doesn't give you that much better chance of getting it. 

 

also people talk it give you more variety, but I have found most people only do the captures or rescues as they are they most quickest way to get a part and traces. so instead of varied play people are just going to do the same quick mission over and over and over -there is no point in doing a harder or longer mission as you get the same reward amount for doing the quick ones. 

[morningstar999]

5 hours ago, Nijyumensou said:

if you don't like the changes or can't accept it, move on.No one is forcing you to stay.
Again,You don't represent the majority but can only be responsible for your own opinion.

ive invested 1800+ hours in the game over the past year, spent more money than I should have on it because I like the game, -but I don't think the changes they are making are right so I am voicing my opinion on it -and so far a lot of people seem to be agreeing with me. 

if you like the new system thats fine, I don't think they should get rid of it but it needs changes and we add more options. 

[Avereth]

I have a lot of issues with the current system, but I have to say that it pretty much hand feeds you prime items if you had the foresight to prep early for today and group up.  My buddy and I ground our traces to near our caps and our syndicate rep near the cap.  We bought syndicate relic packs until out of reputation and were able to then charge them all to radiant where applicable. We played some berehynia to get more relics and picked up 2 friends who were also in the mood to grind all day.  The 4 of us rotated relics and kept using radiants, and by the end we got 10/12 of the new prime drops.  2 of the ones missing are rare drops, but we never started trying to get those two in the first place.  Today we will work on trying to get them as well.  It was actually easier than the old system, but if you try to do it alone you are utterly screwed by the system.

[(PSN)Lacifarus1188]

2 minutes ago, morningstar999 said:

this is another problem the drop rares for rare items are bull and even when you up it to radient (which will take you 10-20 runs to do) it still doesn't give you that much better chance of getting it. 

 

also people talk it give you more variety, but I have found most people only do the captures or rescues as they are they most quickest way to get a part and traces. so instead of varied play people are just going to do the same quick mission over and over and over -there is no point in doing a harder or longer mission as you get the same reward amount for doing the quick ones. 

When you radiant a relic, I feel it should almost swap the drop chances of the items in the table. Like the items on top now have the drop the chance the items on bottom had and bottom has the chance that top used to have. As a consequence though this would kill the market as nothing would be rare. It's a tough balance but the current increase when making a relic radiant isn't worth the trouble, that's for sure.

[DarkOvion]

5 hours ago, (PS4)Foxkid_8 said:

Uh-huh...so while you think of the system as "oh so terrible" and "DE is getting too greedy for me". I'll sit here farming resources for my Nekros Neuroptics, while the chassis and systems build, while I play around for the blueprint to drop.

The game is only a grind if you let it become that in your perspective.

I don't see it as a grind, more of a time investment more than anything else while not being narrow minded on the point by point objectives which leads to "this is too much grind" then into "burnout", and subsequently "developer delusion".

And this is coming from someone who used to run raids (survivals) for as long as possible before leaving just because I was bored.

This simply means you enjoy extreme repetition and grind.

After hundreds of hours playing, taking X hours to find the relics you need, then X hours waiting on RNG to provide the part, spending another 3 hours having to farm X cryotic + 3-5 farming X oxium, or 4-5 hours farming X polymer bundles, etc, each on their own same mission, over and over, forced to use the same mix of Nekros and Hydroid to make that faster does not seem fun, it seems like work.

And if you do it without those frames, - it'll usually take twice as long.

And If you try to outside of optimum farming spots, it'll take 2-10 times longer again.

At that point, it'll take weeks to months of play to earn any of the new items.

And that is the problem.

The older stuff, it took long enough we'd have them 1-2 weeks after other people, playing a sensible amount of time.

The new stuff, it's generally a case of you have to play it as a full time job to get it in 1-2 weeks.

 

5 hours ago, Nijyumensou said:

If you don't like the changes or can't accept it, move on.No one is forcing you to stay.
Again,You don't represent the majority but can only be responsible for your own opinion.
 

If you look at this thread, the forums, steam, reddit, etc, there's an AWFUL lot of people that feel that their recent 'grind reducing measures' have actually exponentially increased the grind.

Also, this post you've made is basically 'You don't have any consumer rights, and companies should be able to do what they like to me and everyone else!'.

That you'll just roll over and take it.

Discussion of flaws, or problematic systems is a good thing.

With your statement, if everything cost 1,000,000 of every resource to build, that would be fine and if you don't like it, just go away.

Absolutely absurd.

11 minutes ago, (PS4)Lacifarus1188 said:

Nailed it. I feel we should get all of the rewards or at least pick 2. The endless missions were annoying but at least you get rewarded for them. This one reward crap and the amount of relics you have to do just to get traces to have a one shot radiant is very inefficient. I feel the grind for the relics themselves isn't bad, its just everything you have to do afterwards doesn't reflect the chance of actually getting the rare part you need.

All 4 rewards would actually make this system at least equivalent to before and would actually reduce grind somewhat.

[(PSN)Lacifarus1188]

10 minutes ago, DarkOvion said:

All 4 rewards would actually make this system at least equivalent to before and would actually reduce grind somewhat.

And fix the ducat issue as well.

[DarkOvion]

Someone was asking how having a Towers + Fissure system would work.

To me, that's relatively easy:

Each Relic can be used as or converted into a Void Key(s) and/or vice-versa..

With the Void As-Is, each unlocked spot has a small radial of T1, T2, T3, T4 (with the base spot being T0).

Then you can do it one of two ways: Same as old system, only access the Towers by key.

OR, give the option to enter without key, just for the increased challenge, with standard rewards

You then have the rolling Relic alerts as-is, but at the rate of 1 relic = 1 reward for each relic used. (So 4 people in squad, 4 relics, each person gets all 4 rewards, 4 people in squad, 3 have relics, 1 doesnt - those 3 get 3 rewards each, the 4'th gets standard mission rewards + traces).

THIS would mean there is:

Choice

Slightly reduced Grind.

 

[Greensun97]

First of all, you need to know that I joined the game 2-3 weeks before the change, so I haven't the oppoturnity to test COMPLETELY the old void (I do some runs but I didn't get all the "right" gear/mods to do 40+ min on survivals).

Of course every system has its flaws (there is no "perfect" systems) but the new void has much more flaws than the old one (IMO).

The only big "problems" with the old void was key leeching and playing the same tilesets again and again.

For the first one, just ask everyone who wants to do void runs and get rewards to use a key (so no key = no rewards)

For the second, right now it is even worse. For exemple, Spy missions are always the same (except the rooms with the data in it but there is some variants and you get 3 of those variants everytime). Even for big maps (like excavation) the same tiles come again and again and again... So we went for "you must do the same mission over and over on the same tileset" to "you must do MULTIPLE missions (because all the relics you want rarely drop on the same mission) over and over and over... to perhaps get the relic you want and perhaps get the part you want/need (Did you really believe this would be this easy)"

 

Note: this is just my opinion

[LoneDirewolf]

And here i was planning on coming back from hibernation to farm Nekros p, but now there's no point in even bothering.

Now i have to

a) Farm the relics.

b) Farm the void traces, because default rare drop rate is 2 %, much lower then in the past.

c) Get a team with same relic and same quality.

d) Now i can start farming for Nekros.

Christ, every time DE says "decrease grind" They somehow increase it.

[aerosoul1337]

Not only unfair, it's beyond boring.

 

Old Void:

I play some endless missions very often, for fun and some prime parts. Even I already have those prime sets.

New Void:

I hate it but I need new primes.

*Low level exterminate: sometimes you can't get 10 traces no matter what. (especially for pug)

*Even the enemy's invulnerability during the corruption is annoying enough.

I will never play it once I got the prime parts I need. (until next prime)

[Salenstormwing]

Folks really want to go back to THIS?!

Me, I prefer Part 2, because yeah, that's the hill you want to die on?

[morningstar999]

13 hours ago, Nijyumensou said:

if you don't like the changes or can't accept it, move on.No one is forcing you to stay.
Again,You don't represent the majority but can only be responsible for your own opinion.

add like 40 extra hours work replace keys with relics and void thingys and you have the current warframe. 

 

[(PSN)Tenchi145]

12 hours ago, SilvaDreams said:

The new system was put in to fix the major problems everyone had with the old system.

1) Boredom, being locked to the same map

2) The Grind, it's easier now and you can target select pieces

3) Prime Vaulting, now we can keep our "keys" which have vaulted primes.

4) Keyshares and their leeching, now everyone has to pay or nothing for you!

 

Well everyone asked for this stuff and DE built a system around your gripes but now it's still not good enough.

 

Thank you!!!!!!!!

[Mazzuco_]

Some considerations:

• With old void system we had 4 tower levels and a total of 21 different keys.
• The new void system has 4 Eras and a total of 24 active relics per Prime Access.
• We have less mission nodes nodes (DE removed about 40 nodes if I'm not wrong)
• With the old key system, the lowest drop chance for rare items was about 5%.
• Now, an intact relic has 2% for rare, and 10% for an radiant, which requires more grind to farm void traces.
• The new system fixes (sort of) problems related to key sharing (It will require everyone to equip a relic, more grinding farming relics).

What does that mean? More "Keys", less places to farm, lower drop chances = Less chances to farm that relic and item you are aiming for, less fun and more time farming relics.

• With old system, there was a "challenge" factor: We had to upgrade our gear, mod it properly, in other words: We had to progress in game.
•  we had to be "Bad Asses" in order to optimize the farming and complete harder towers easily and being able to stay longer on endless missions.
•  There wasn't any advantage staying  20,40, 60, 80 minutes/waves on a survival, interception, defense (even if were stronger and capable of staying longer, we would still have the same drop chance from the some rotation, what was a pain in the &#!), but save time and keys reapplying for the mission.
• With new void system, people prioritize faster fissure missions, like capture and exterminate missions and being stronger in game doesn't bring any real advantage.

IMO the old void system problem wasn't staying a longer time on the same map, but the fact that drop chance didn't increase over time/difficulty. At least there was the challenge, which motivated us to keep playing and progressing in game. I prefer spending time on a endless mission that increases drop chance for rare item over time than spending the same amount of time farming the same relic again.

I'm sure DE will make changes to the actual void system, there is a lot of complains about it. I keep thinking recently changes in game demotivates player progression in game, which should be the main way for capitalization. I know it isn't easy to keep players and and attract new players, but at least there was more players online in the old days.

Edited August 24, 2016 by -GV--Mazzuco

[TheSteelRat]

The grind of new Prime parts is now about getting the Relics and the Traces to refine the relics.  So far since release I spent:

• 280k Syndicate standing on relic packs. 
• 30k Cryotic Doing Hiericon
• 30 rounds of Xini

Upgraded 4 Neo N3, and 5 Axi N3 to Radiant, and didn't get a single Rare in a relic share

I now need to farm MORE relics, and MORE traces

It would be nice if i could take all these relics I am not going to use now, and convert them into Void traces, because without a Resource booster getting 6-30 traces a mission takes me at least 5 missions to get 100 traces.  by some cocktail napkin estimation i have to do about 10 missions on on average to get a rare part.  but at least I don't have to spent 60 minutes in a survival to get something I never wanted

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

Honestly, the new system is pretty cool for veterans if you know how to use it and plan ahead.

Step 1 - Max your syndicates before the update drops. You have months to do so in between primes, not that hard.

Step 2 - Get a comfortable amount of Void Traces in preparation of update using old keys.... I'd say 1000ish would be the best to give you a headstart of refining the new relics that drop. Only had 500 this update and I did have to farm some in between key runs.

Step 3 - When update drops, spend all your syndicate rep on key packs... If you have 3 Syndicate maxed, that's 15 Packs of 3 Keys (45 Keys) , and you usually get at least 1-2 new keys per pack, giving you a decent amount of new keys right from the start when the update drops without having to farm ....

Step 4 - Refine keys with Rare Drops with your stockpile void traces, then look for a group with 4 people with the same radiant key. Usually you'll get the rare prime part , if not , it might take you another try, but honestly, I've gotten most of the prime parts on my first try with a decidated group, and when I don't, I usually get it on my 2ND try. Compared to spending days praying to RNGesus in Rotation C, I'd say it's an improvement.

Step 4 - By the time you're out of the new keys, you should have enough new duplicate prime parts to exchange with other players to get the few you were missing... Or you can always buy keys at roughtly 5-10p each.

Pretty much everyone that has used this method I know managed to get most if not all prime parts in less time that it took them using the old system...

So while yes, the new system is probably terrible for noobs with low MR, unranked syndicates, for us vets it probably works better in the long run, since you can prepare for updates, stockpile and fix the RNG into working for you instead of against you.

Edited August 24, 2016 by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra