Syndicate Melee Weapons Are Just Too Much Fun!

[Azrael]

1 hour ago, OzoneSlayer said:

Only ones worth using are magistar boltace and sydon

Lecta is great. It's a good weapon, much better than the regular lecta, and double credits is pretty nice. Combined with a credit booster I'm getting 50k credits from 20 mins on selkie.

[BornWithTeeth]

8 minutes ago, DSpite said:

Then petition to make enemy scaling and combat mechanics more meaningful.

Blocking should be a thing, flanking and rear attacks should be a thing. Pressing one button and having 10 enemies drop dead should NOT be a thing, otherwise all other combat options are meaningless and we get people coming up with your exact argument.

How about just making the weapon have a useful ability?

 

 

DSpite, I truly don't understand what you're getting at here. I really don't. I don't see how this situation looks good to you. Does it look good to you? Making the Vaykor Sydon the hill that the melee system should die on, for some point of principle about how blocking should be a good thing is kind of silly, when instead, we could just tweak the ability to make it actually useful.

Edited September 16, 2016 by BornWithTeeth

[Tesseract7777]

Blocking should be a thing, but even in a game where blocking is a common mechanic, how often do you block fifteen times in a row without performing any other actions? The requirements to make the effect go off are ridiculous... there is no denying it. 

[Buttaface]

Sydon and Dark Dagger are complete fodder, no idea about others yet. Who knows the thought process or why they listened to whom they listened to on these things. The datamining on the Dark Dagger and Sydon looked great and not at all OP, yet inexplicably we get trash when actually released. Rakta dagger stance DOES NOT MATCH POINTED WIND?!! Hilarity, don't know whether to laugh or cry. No unique skins? the damn things don't even look any different from the regular versions? What a complete, lazy design fail and exercise in listening to the -wrong- people.

 

 

[(PSN)lhbuch]

19 minutes ago, Buttaface said:

Sydon and Dark Dagger are complete fodder, no idea about others yet. Who knows the thought process or why they listened to whom they listened to on these things. The datamining on the Dark Dagger and Sydon looked great and not at all OP, yet inexplicably we get trash when actually released. Rakta dagger stance DOES NOT MATCH POINTED WIND?!! Hilarity, don't know whether to laugh or cry. No unique skins? the damn things don't even look any different from the regular versions? What a complete, lazy design fail and exercise in listening to the -wrong- people.

 

 

Who are the wrong people?

[Buttaface]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)lhbuch said:

Who are the wrong people?

Well for example, the people or person who thought that what dagger users in Warframe would really appreciate is a... shield buff?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!!?!!?!!?!?!!?!?!!?!!!!? as opposed to a movement speed or attack speed buff, or that in a game with many frames with innate invisibility, blinds, stuns and a focus tree called NARAMON, "reduced visibility" would be "interesting" to put on a melee weapon (and not totally redundant)...  would be the -wrong- person to listen to.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Buttaface

[(PSN)lhbuch]

3 minutes ago, Buttaface said:

Well for example, the people or person who thought that what dagger users in Warframe would really appreciate is a... shield buff?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!!?!!?!!?!?!!?!?!!?!!!!? as opposed to a movement speed or attack speed buff, or that in a game with many frames with innate invisibility, blinds, stuns and a focus tree called NARAMON, "reduced visibility" would be "interesting" to put on a melee weapon (and not totally redundant)...  would be the -wrong- person to listen to.

Lol. Got the point man... Thanks.

[Mystra4]

3 minutes ago, Buttaface said:

Well for example, the people or person who thought that what dagger users in Warframe would really appreciate is a... shield buff?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!!?!!?!!?!?!!?!?!!?!!!!? as opposed to a movement speed or attack speed buff, or that in a game with many frames with innate invisibility, blinds, stuns and a focus tree called NARAMON, "reduced visibility" would be "interesting" to put on a melee weapon (and not totally redundant)...  would be the -wrong- person to listen to.

Alright, let's hear your example.  (I am tempted to say it's garbage before you even tell us, but JUMPING TO SUCH A CONCLUSION WOULD BE SILLY!

[Buttaface]

1 minute ago, Mystra4 said:

Alright, let's hear your example.  (I am tempted to say it's garbage before you even tell us, but JUMPING TO SUCH A CONCLUSION WOULD BE SILLY!

My posts to this thread and the opinions stated in them couldn't be more clear. Feel free to disagree as you like of course.

[Tesseract7777]

Seriously.... overshields when statusing on a dagger (with poor status), blind with finishers and blocking on a polearm weapon that has the worst finishers in the game... the worst syndicate weapon set (perrin) getting shafted again with a passive that does nothing for actual gameplay, even though some of the other syndicates get two. Another passive that involves charge attacks, when charge attacks suck in this game and DE still won't do anything to make them not suck, or add any mods for them. 

Just very poorly though out, very rushed, definitely listened to the wrong people... made some very confusing/nonsensical decisions. Very disappointing. These might have got me back into the game... but, I doubt it now. Very, very poorly executed, they should be ashamed. 

If they were too busy with The War Within to do this properly they should have waited until they had time to do it properly instead of releasing sloppy, poorly thought out weapons. 

Edited September 16, 2016 by Tesseract7777

[Tradden]

I got the Sydon almost immediately and I am so disappointed. Before reading that I had to block 15 attacks in a row to set it off, I was basically just running around blocking and accomplishing nothing. Even after blocking 15 hits and getting a blind, I am very disappointed in this weapon. From what I've seen the Telos Boltace looks at least a little bit fun, but in my opinion the Vaykor Sydon is a bit of a waste.

[Mystra4]

5 minutes ago, Buttaface said:

My posts to this thread and the opinions stated in them couldn't be more clear. Feel free to disagree as you like of course.

After reading ALL of your posts in this thread, and taking into account ALL of the opinions stated in them...  Well, I believe the phrase "clear as mud" would apply.

 

@Tesseract7777 You imply that only status inflicted by the dagger would give overshields?

 

Edited September 16, 2016 by Mystra4

[--RV--arm4geddon-117]

*looks at the new syndicate melee weapons*
 *FACE PALM*

*Logs off*

 

[Tesseract7777]

3 minutes ago, Mystra4 said:

After reading ALL of your posts in this thread, and taking into account ALL of the opinions stated in them...  Well, I believe the phrase "clear as mud" would apply.

 

@Tesseract7777 You imply that only status inflicted by the dagger would give overshields?

 

They have to be radiation status'd, but that's almost just as bad. Think of it this way, unless you are bringing a Nyx or Oberon or something (and why would you run a dagger with nyx or Oberon???), then you will need to radiation them first to get this effect when striking them. This means you need to mod a dagger for status that only has 20% status with the augment (if they even keep allowing us to use it with the rakta version). 

You need to status them with radiation before you can get the effect, with the type of weapon that isn't designed for open gameplay, but more stealthy gameplay. And you will need to keep statusing people, and trying to get overshields to keep your health up? But most people with daggers are either invisible, or using cc so they can use covert lethality. Overshields is something no one with a dagger build ever asked for. And you are basically going to be trying to constantly status people with a weapon not really even designed for open combat or status... it just doesn't make sense. 

[achromos]

seems like the dagger was designed with a loki in mind with his augmented 4... 

[StonedMakak]

6 hours ago, achromos said:

seems like the dagger was designed with a loki in mind with his augmented 4... 

I dunno, I always though that ID is there to help you stay AWAY from the psychos with super-batons. Been a while since I played Loki but they target you if you get too close, or do they? In any case, rushing them with a puny dagger is kind silly, grabbing Telos Boltace and going for a Invisible blender seems a much better choice. I agree with @Tesseract777, daggers have one job and it sure as hell is not open combat (which is sad). 

And I disagree with you OP - the looks of Telos Boltace are a crime against humanity, which makes it all the more painful that, apparently, it's the only one of the bunch that is worth a damn.

Masterful trolling DE, masterful.

Edited September 16, 2016 by tisdfogg

[Azrael]

1 minute ago, tisdfogg said:

And I disagree with you OP - the looks of Telos Boltace are a crime against humanity, which makes it all the more painful that, apparently, it's the only one of the bunch that is worth a damn.

Actually, after some testing I have to disagree. The Secura Lecta is a great all around weapon. good for quick-melee status or melee-only with maiming strike (and the credit thing is a nice bonus). Also the Vaykor Sydon is a strong weapon with an ability that only appears to be useless at first. After testing it I would say that the sydon scales extremely well when used with tanky frames that don't have a blind such as trinity or chroma. Using trinity I killed 8 level 140 heavy gunners (simulacrum) very easily by blinding and then slash-proccing (madurai helps). Combining 85% DR from blocking with link and bless results in a 99% DR, so charging the blind isn't all that unreasonable for her.

And then the heliocor is just plain fun! You always have a new special friend to fight alongside you and provide a welcome distraction. Very nice! Not really great for super high levels, but nice all the same.

I think the lecta may replace my serro as a quick-melee status weapon. While the serro still hits more often on a quick-melee, the lecta has better range.

[Zarozian]

Telos Boltace will be our salvation against the Sentients!

[StonedMakak]

5 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:

Actually, after some testing I have to disagree. The Secura Lecta is a great all around weapon. good for quick-melee status or melee-only with maiming strike (and the credit thing is a nice bonus). Also the Vaykor Sydon is a strong weapon with an ability that only appears to be useless at first. After testing it I would say that the sydon scales extremely well when used with tanky frames that don't have a blind such as trinity or chroma. Using trinity I killed 8 level 140 heavy gunners (simulacrum) very easily by blinding and then slash-proccing (madurai helps). Combining 85% DR from blocking with link and bless results in a 99% DR, so charging the blind isn't all that unreasonable for her.

And then the heliocor is just plain fun! You always have a new special friend to fight alongside you and provide a welcome distraction. Very nice! Not really great for super high levels, but nice all the same.

I think the lecta may replace my serro as a quick-melee status weapon. While the serro still hits more often on a quick-melee, the lecta has better range.

Meant it more in terms of the new things they bring to the table. I'm gonna take your word for Lecta being good stat-wise, but I still contend the usefulness of the credit thing - by the time you max out a Syndicate, credits shouldn't be something you worry about. I'm also unconvinced on Sydon's passive, you kinda have to use a tanky frame to make it viable. While good synergy is more than welcome, the passive is still to weak to stand on it's own, largely due to the fact that blocking is pointless. But, I'm happy that you can enjoy them.

I use Ninkondi for status because Bruce Lee.

[BornWithTeeth]

33 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:

 Also the Vaykor Sydon is a strong weapon with an ability that only appears to be useless at first. After testing it I would say that the sydon scales extremely well when used with tanky frames that don't have a blind such as trinity or chroma. Using trinity I killed 8 level 140 heavy gunners (simulacrum) very easily by blinding and then slash-proccing (madurai helps). Combining 85% DR from blocking with link and bless results in a 99% DR, so charging the blind isn't all that unreasonable for her.nge.

That's still really bad, though, as what you're effectively saying is that the weapon's unique blocking ability is useful provided you're playing a 'frame so tanky that they can survive how badly implemented the whole blocking-to-charge mechanic is. Saying "it's alright that this thing is very badly executed because we can compensate for it by making a build that doesn't need it to be good" means that the thing is still badly executed.

[Epsik-kun]

1 hour ago, Lord_Azrael said:

Also the Vaykor Sydon is a strong weapon with an ability that only appears to be useless at first

It's a strong weapon, but the ability is useless. You can mod Sydon to be able to deal with high level Heavy Gunners, and you won't need blind to do that. I am more than sure, that were you to hit the faces instead of blocking > using finisher > blocking again, you would have a much better result.

[shut]

13 hours ago, Lord_Azrael said:

Lecta is great. It's a good weapon, much better than the regular lecta

Is the regular lecta really setting the bar that high, though?

I was super pumped for the secura lecta since I wanted something that might have the slightest chance of rivaling the Atterax, but I feel like the SL was a bit of letdown in that department. I mean, the Atterax just seems like the all-round better option in combat; the SL feels more like a farming tool than anything.

 

I haven't tested the SL so I can't say this for sure, of course, but from looking at the stats alone, it just doesn't seem all that impressive.

Edited September 16, 2016 by SortaRandom

[Azrael]

6 hours ago, tisdfogg said:

Meant it more in terms of the new things they bring to the table. I'm gonna take your word for Lecta being good stat-wise, but I still contend the usefulness of the credit thing - by the time you max out a Syndicate, credits shouldn't be something you worry about.

I'm pretty sure that MR 12 players still worry about credits. So does literally every player I know, even the ones with 80 million credits, because they take newer players on credit farms quite frequently.

 

5 hours ago, Epsik-kun said:

It's a strong weapon, but the ability is useless. You can mod Sydon to be able to deal with high level Heavy Gunners, and you won't need blind to do that. I am more than sure, that were you to hit the faces instead of blocking > using finisher > blocking again, you would have a much better result.

No, actually. I was taking advantage of the synergy between DoT's and blinds, which is much better than simply attacking. I was able to kill all 8 using only two applications of the sydon's blind by staying out of finisher range and slash-proccing them while they were blinded. Also, while charging the blind I had an effective 99% DR, but if I had simply attacked them I would have had only 93.75% DR (link and bless) and would have taken more damage.

 

1 hour ago, SortaRandom said:

I mean, the Atterax just seems like the all-round better option in combat; the SL feels more like a farming tool than anything.

Yes, the atterax is still king. But the lecta is very good at quick-melee status, as I mentioned before, so it has a place in high-level play. A couple swipes and everybody's rad/viral procced, then proceed to murder. Also good for growing power builds, of which I have several.

 

6 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Saying "it's alright that this thing is very badly executed because we can compensate for it by making a build that doesn't need it to be good" means that the thing is still badly executed.

I agree 100%. I would love it if they made the change I suggested earlier, which is that you can keep the charges so long as you are holding the block button. But I just wanted to let you guys know that it IS useful, if you do it right.

[TwevOWNED]

1 minute ago, Lord_Azrael said:

I'm pretty sure that MR 12 players still worry about credits. So does literally every player I know, even the ones with 80 million credits, because they take newer players on credit farms quite frequently.

When a high level player needs credits, they go the the Dark Sector defense on Ceres and get 25,000 in 3 minutes. They don't go off and try to farm credits from enemy drops because those are so abysmally low, which is why the Secura Lecta is useless. Twice of nothing is still nothing.

[BornWithTeeth]

2 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:

 

I agree 100%. I would love it if they made the change I suggested earlier, which is that you can keep the charges so long as you are holding the block button. But I just wanted to let you guys know that it IS useful, if you do it right.

I'm afraid that still would not be good enough. What would make the effect truly useful is being able to store the charge while continuing to fight, and then trigger the blind through performing a charge attack or channelled spin attack or similar. Otherwise, it would remain far, far too clunky and annoying to use, and ultimately just make the weapon a bit.....rubbish.