Why do you think so many players avoid the Trial/Raid missions?

[TGDM]

On the last Devstream, DE shared with us some player stats on an average weekend:

It doesn't really come as a surprise than less than 2% of players (on PC) completed the Trial missions in that time. We've heard the devs talk about how the Trials offer a low return on investment (for the developers, not the players) and as a result Trial development is currently on hold.

Next month I'll be publishing an editorial piece on this topic for TennoClockNews and I figured it would be helpful to reach out and expand my perspective a bit on the matter. I have a few key points I've identified and branched out from, but that might not be the full picture and might be limited by my own bias. So, to that end, leave a reply here to let me know:

1. Have you completed the Trial missions?

2. Do you run them regularly? Why (and how often) or why not?

3. Why do you think the majority of players do not complete the Trials?

The goal, as with all of my other editorials, is to critically analyze a part of Warframe and build constructive feedback. If you're curious, you can check out some of the previous editorials I wrote. I'm optimistic that DE will always act when the players best interests align with their own and I hope to provide feedback that paves that path.

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EDIT:

Thank you all for the responses. I've read through every comment and was able to put together a few good new points to explore.

All of that being said, if you're looking for a way to actually try out the Trials, I would strongly recommend looking into the Warframe Raid School Bus. I didn't mention the group in the original post because I didn't want it to distract from the conversation going on here, but now that the thread is about several days old I'm not as worried about that. The RSB is a group of players dedicated to running the Trials regularly for new and experienced players. We'll teach newbies all of the ropes and get you in and out of the Trials at a pace you can actually digest and learn from. We have experienced players across the world that can help accommodate your time zones, too. The group was even featured on the official Warframe news blog! https://warframe.com/news/community-spotlight-the-raid-school-bus

The RSB is a great resource for experienced players, too. We'll teach you everything we know about how to efficiently speedrun the Trials to get them done in way less time than the global average. Like, 15min LoRs and 20min JVs done legit. We don't force the meta, but we will teach it to you in order to give you a better experience if you plan on pugging in the future.

There are so many responses in this thread from people that have felt too intimidated to try the Trials and a shocking number of people who have never run/complete them and insist they're not fun despite never having done them... and I want to empathize with that. If you want to try out the Trials, though, I'd recommend giving the RSB a shot.

Edited October 1, 2016 by TGDM

[Godzilla853]

I for one am MR 16 and I have never done one or no how to one and I don't know if I am prepared.

[AdunSaveMe]

It's a lot of effort for shocking rewards and a minuscule chance at something worthwhile and less fun than I can have doing something else.

I'd also like to point out the fact that the meta is very strict, you can't just take whatever you want, and you're severely punished if you don't take a specific kind of team that can cheese it entirely.

Edited September 26, 2016 by AdunSaveMe

[NyxCrab]

I know the reason I don't do Raids often is because I don't trust pubs to do with me and a lot of my friends don't feel like doing raids do I just don't do them.

[ZapCannon]

the main problem for me is the lack of rewards. I know some people would hate it, but there should be certain gear that is only obtainable from the raid. Either as boss drops or as a token system for raid specific unlocks

[DemonicHuntress]

1. Yes.

2. No. My group runs late at night and I have school.

3. Groups tend to be hostile towards newcomers who might jeopardize their run, which I think is most likely the biggest reason for players don't bother getting into them. That, and most arcanes are considered useless.

[kubbi]

Never done raids and dont think I ever will. The rewards just don't seem worth it. And when people want to do them they only want people with experience.

[Hemmo67]

i did all trials once or twice to get cosmetics. then i stopped cuz it's an annoying hassle to get a teamup and with ever changing loadouts it gets veeeeeeeery annoying -.-

[RealPandemonium]

Level 70+ enemies, frustrating RTFM artficial progression blockers with clunky implementation, and the assumption that you will cheese the hell out of it leading to stilted team compositions and elitist recruiting.  Add lag/disconnects into the mix and it's easy to see why people don't bother.  

Also, the grind to complete the Arcane of your choice would be staggering even if we weren't limited to one run per day.  The rewards don't match up to the grind.  

Edited September 26, 2016 by RealPandemonium
Added comment about Arcane grind

[TekuXIX]

Yes, Yes, For fun with a group of friends, Every two days and because they are still buggy as all hell and if you go in with pubs you're pretty much assure you'll more than likely fail.

[Cyandana]

1. Yes

2. Yes

3.

LoR is basically a set of puzzles, the most practical way to complete it is to CC everything and complete the puzzles. Most players probably do not find this fun. I tried to take two new players with our clan the other week, they were confused & frustrated to all hell, even with us constantly instant-vazarin rezzing them and telling them that everything was fine - just " stay on the button " .

JV requires Archwing. This is enough to alienate almost anyone.

The trials should not be referred to as raids. They are nothing like raids from any other game's incarnation of them and calling them a raid is misleading.

[Annoying_killah]

1. Yes.

2. Nope, because my internet connection sucks.

3. Lack of interest and connection problems.

[MegatronG1]

1. Have you completed the Trial missions?

A: Yes

2. Do you run them regularly? Why (and how often) or why not?

A: Usually one or twice a week. I have a clan that runs them usually two times a week unless there aren't enough people on or some people are burned out.

3. Why do you think the majority of players do not complete the Trials?

A: You have to take into account the time it takes to complete each mission, with trials being the longest. So it would make sense that shorter missions would be completed more times than a mission that can take from 30 minutes - 2 hours to finish if people even get to the finishing point.

Edited September 26, 2016 by MegatronG1

[JShield]

1. I haven't even bothered to try.

2. Nope. I haven't pub-ed in a year/don't have enough friends that care and don't plan on starting anytime soon. The arcane buffs and randomization just don't appeal to me.

3. They don't want to learn nor deal with people who yell at them for never doing one before. Also, see above.

[FierceRadiance]

Me personally, MR 21 and I don't think I (or my clan) have ever tried one. Can't speak for them, but I don't have any plans to do one soon.

My reason for not trying them really has to do with the vanishingly-small chance to get the drops I still don't have. Honestly, as a long-time player, I've got most of what's available in the game, and I'm bored with the grind (and no longer wish to be frustrated by it) for the few things that are left. 

It's gotten to the point where if I see someone wearing a Nekros Prime, the latest Saryn or the latest weapons, I just assume they paid for it, because in my experience, the new stuff simply doesn't drop, so they couldn't have earned it.  Yes, I know mathematically that isn't true.  Maybe it would be more accurate to say that I'm burned out on the grind, and just don't have enough wants to grind out earning (and I DO mean earning!) the latest 'frames and weaps. I don't believe I'm missing anything worthwhile by skipping the Trials, whether it be the level design/tile sets, or the drops I know I won't be getting.

Plus, DE has given us many other things to do which don't involve frustration (as the grind has become saturated with).  Currently, I'm almost done hunting down all the Fragments, and once that's completed, I'll start on Kuria.  I KNOW these things are there, all I have to do is search for them, and I enjoy that.

EDIT:  Wow.  Only a little over 1% are playing PvP.  I'd always suspected, but PvPers always shouted about it so loudly I wasn't sure what the real numbers were.  1% is an extremely small number of players....

Edited September 26, 2016 by FierceRadiance

[OkamiMilo]

I dont like the mission. That's all LOL

[Jaysus41]

1. Yes

2. Yes

3. Probably 2 reasons. First is to do them well people have to do their homework, or get taught by someone who knows them, and figure out just how the trial works. Second, It's not something you can just jump into, not like say a Defense or Survival where you can click a node and start playing in 20 seconds.

[-InV-Skitz0]

1. Yes
2. No. I obtained most of the Arcane's that I wanted.
3. I think most players had bad experience's with raids in public missions and just gave up. Never taking the time to find a pre made group with good communication to work with and learn from.

[(PSN)bddacres]

I'm a daily raider and i find one of the main reasons many stray from raids is the strict requirements of many groups and the lack of a reward. As a new player arcanes do not appear to be attractive for the simple fact that they are not game changing. In addition, many experienced raiders just want to speed run trails and have little patience for newcomers as it delays the mission.

[SilentCynic]

1. I have completed the Trials.

2. Nope. I found both of them extremely and utterly boring. Trials, more so than a lot of other content in Warframe, are prone to just being cheesed to death. The first time I ran LoR, I never had to fire a single shot. Stand here, stand there, spam 4, receive loot. Efficient, yes, but about as engaging as a documentary about sand. On top of that, pulling together eight friends at the same time to run Trials is like herding cats, and playing with randoms is always a mixed bag.

3. In addition to the above, I presume most players are put off because they don't know how to get into Trials, and don't want to get shouted at by veterans who see Trials as an extended Press-To-Receive-Loot button.

Edited September 27, 2016 by SilentCynic

[TheJadrimian]

1. I've completed Law of Retribution, haven't even attempted the other two.
2. Not at all. I play for fun, with friends, and whilst I enjoyed LoR, getting enough of my friends together to run it was a challenge unto itself. About half the crew I brought to those runs aren't geared up enough to take on Nightmare LoR or JV (especially JV, what with archwing and such). Also, having to farm to proceed past stage 2 of JV always struck me as serious BS, so I dislike it on principle. But hey, maybe I'll get on the raid bus sometime.
3. Before reading this thread I would have guessed most are like me, and have trouble getting a group together outside of pubs (which are a turn-off unto themselves). But I guess there's more to it.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

1. Yes.

2. Occasionally. The 24 hour cap on running Trials is disheartening to get Arcanes. I usually run with friends or groups of peeps I'm familiar with. Never on PuGs. If I can possibly get Arcanes twice a day (12 hour cap in-between), I'd probably run Raids more often.

3. Lack of information and lack of an interest in learning proper routes with certain frames to run raids. The investment process in creating meta builds may also be a factor. The general majority of players find Raids to be too complicated for them to do, and the time/investment it takes to make an Arcane set to equip on a cosmetic (10 Arcanes) drives away some players who want immediate satisfaction.

Edited September 26, 2016 by (PS4)Lei-Lei_23

[Silence00]

I have 2600+ hours in the game and have never done a raid. 

 

I think arcanes are nice, but wholly unnecessary and are not worth the aggravation of having to do terribly unorganized raids. I'd rather just buy arcanes with platinum and avoid the raids altogether. An hour of in-game time for me is better spent doing Heiracon or doing fissures until my eyes bleed. Personally, my largest problem with raids comes from my expectations of them. Having come from other major MMOs, I expected a large-scale bullet-spongy boss battle requiring massive player coordination or at the very least serious sustained firepower to complete. These puzzle-oriented raids are a nuisance and not worth my time. Again, this is just my personal opinion. 

[TheMortemShadow]

I used to do them quite a bit; however, given that I always teamed up in Recruiting chat and I usually hosted, I got so angry with the elitist recruiting. I remember back when I was MR 12 and I invited people to the Trial and 2 people left immediately because my MR was too low... Despite me completing it several times? It gets frustrating trying to have fun doing it when people constantly belittle you while doing the Trial. If a teammate makes a mistake, I brush it off and help them back up, but there are so many people who instantly call that person an idiot, moron, and usually a lot worse than that. It isn't fun when there are so many people in the Warframe community who are just terrible people and think they're God. I have my own clan, but I don't feel comfortable inviting other people right now to it because I have anxiety when it comes to that stuff. Maybe one day I can have my clan to have Trial runs. 

[Sar.K.Asmus]

1. Have you completed the Trial missions?

No.

2. Do you run them regularly? Why (and how often) or why not?

I don't do the trials because

• I never did them and players who actually run trials look for "experienced" players (they want to rush them for rewards and not because they actually like them (just a guess, not a fact))
• after watching a walktrough on youtube i saw that it's mostly a puzzle and a boss fight at the end. Puzzles are not the things i'm looking for in Warframe. If i want to do puzzles, i play a puzzle game like Portal or Talos Principle.

3. Why do you think the majority of players do not complete the Trials?

• I guess they don't like the design of the trials. It's mostly a cc fest and a boss fight at the end.
• Not many players are interested in arcanes.