The Vacuum Within: Hotfix 1

[Armetage]

6 minutes ago, Thaumatos said:

I'd hate to break it to you, but there's a lot of stuff that drops...and I'm pretty sure you have to pick it up to get it.

How close you have to be may be change-able based on what they add...but you still have to be around it to pick it up.

Who plays a game with items literally labeled "pickups" and expects to never pick anything up?  That's like playing Super Mario and expecting to never see a mushroom...

Yes you have to pick up items in game.  But way does it need to be harder then it was with the old vacuum mod.  The old mod worked fine.  The lowered range now that it's not a mod is with I have a problem with.  Like i said how does making it harder for people to pick up items off the floor better for the game or improve the game.

[Xzorn]

4 minutes ago, Omega-Shadowblade said:

Connecting having to walk a few steps as "increased grind" is a stretch as it is. I've done runs with the new vacuum using nekros. Still making around the same as usual in terms of pickups. I could understand maybe bumping the vacuum radius up to 8 meters, but reverting it back to 12 is not necessary. Needing that much range is just lazy.

 

And how was it necessary to reduce the radius after 3 years in the first place?

Why are you okay with compromising?

That's like me taking someone's wallet then saying, it's okay we can split the money.

[Omega-Shadowblade]

1 minute ago, Armetage said:

Yes you have to pick up items in game.  But way does it need to be harder then it was with the old vacuum mod.  The old mod worked fine.  The lowered range now that it's not a mod is with I have a problem with.  Like i said how does making it harder for people to pick up items off the floor better for the game or improve the game.

With that mindset, how does a larger vacuum radius have anything to do with improving the game as well? All it does is save a few seconds of movement and maybe allow players to stay entrenched in areas without having to leave to collect loot. 

[The_Archimedian]

The vacuum nerf seems purely arbitrary, unnecessary, and a bit in the face of the majority of the exerienced player base.  Newer players won't miss it, but many veterans will.  Why does it feel like DE is driving verterans away?  I remain confundus. 

[AOD_metalseed]

43 minutes ago, Raven_Face said:

I don't want to resort to insults since that is against the forum rules, but I want to make a blanket statement.

Vacuum users have had enough lazyness for far too long. It's not like a shortened range is equal to 'none at all'. I said this before and I'll say it again. The default pickup radius is generous enough (except Archwing) whereas other games don't even have that much. This isn't a game where everything should be handed to you on a silver platter. On the other hand, I never wanted Vacuum to be forced on me, so what about MY opinion should it be made 'default' for every Warframe?

Carrier still has an utility, and that's ammo. It's more practical and sensible than pickup lazyness. DEAL WITH IT.

 

 

@above

 

Animal Instinct. You never have one despite periodic Alerts giving it? Why worry when you can SEE what's around the floor?

 

nerfs happen because of mooks like this guy...

The only people ok with this nerf are the ones that never use carrier.
This veteran is about done.

Edited October 6, 2016 by AOD_metalseed

[Omega-Shadowblade]

1 minute ago, Xzorn said:

 

And how was it necessary to reduce the radius after 3 years in the first place?

Why are you okay with compromising?

That's like me taking someone's wallet then saying, it's okay we can split the money.

I'm getting more out of this than I'm losing at least personally. I get more variety of stuff to play around with, I get a functional vacuum with a decent range larger than many other loot games are willing to give, and I get a new ability for carrier that I can mess around with. Also yes, a nerf was necessary, an 80% carrier use rate shows a bad design trend: Nigh complete obsolete content.  Devs needed to break a dependency hard so people would adapt. The wallet example is also kind of weak for comparison.

[Omega-Shadowblade]

3 minutes ago, AOD_metalseed said:

nerfs happen because of mooks like this guy...

.....no.

[TranceReality]

3 minutes ago, Omega-Shadowblade said:

I'm getting more out of this than I'm losing at least personally. I get more variety of stuff to play around with, I get a functional vacuum with a decent range larger than many other loot games are willing to give, and I get a new ability for carrier that I can mess around with. Also yes, a nerf was necessary, an 80% carrier use rate shows a bad design trend: Nigh complete obsolete content.  Devs needed to break a dependency hard so people would adapt. The wallet example is also kind of weak for comparison.

Nothing you said here explains why you think a nerf was necessary. All sentinels have the effect so an 80% use rate when only one of them had it is irrelevant.

[Retequizzle]

Do we have Mesa Noggles as of yet?  Because if not, how did we get a Nezha noggle before her?

[BrckaLo]

Anyone's amount of effort in exploring maps, getting drops, laziness or lack-there-of is irrelevant to the discussion. It's the removal of the choice that is important. If you didn't want vacuum, you didn't have to use it. But if I want to use vacuum, why does your not wanting to use it have anything to do with my wanting to use it? Why would you cheer for something to be worse that has no bearing on you and only effects someone else? If you don't like vacuum, then don't us it. Don't preach how you are better than everyone because you don't use it.

Now, everyone has to use it and it is worse than it was before.

Think of your favorite weapon. Now cut it's effectiveness (or whatever your favorite part of the weapon is) in half. Now think about how ridiculous it is to hear someone say how lazy you were before and its way better now because you can't use that weapon.

[Xzorn]

6 minutes ago, Omega-Shadowblade said:

I'm getting more out of this than I'm losing at least personally. I get more variety of stuff to play around with, I get a functional vacuum with a decent range larger than many other loot games are willing to give, and I get a new ability for carrier that I can mess around with. Also yes, a nerf was necessary, an 80% carrier use rate shows a bad design trend: Nigh complete obsolete content.  Devs needed to break a dependency hard so people would adapt. The wallet example is also kind of weak for comparison.

 

Mess around with what exactly? Companions suck and I do mean all of them.

Yes it does show a bad design. It shows a bad Game Design. Not ability design.

Companions suck because of scaling and the current damage system. People forgo complete crap for something that's useful. It's as simple as that.

You don't nerf something that's good because your game makes everything else suck. You fix your game so they no longer suck.

[Rheoidegen]

10 minutes ago, AOD_metalseed said:

nerfs happen because of mooks like this guy...

The only people ok with this nerf are the ones that never use carrier.
This veteran is about done.

 

 

I use carrier all the time but I'm fine with the 'nerf' as it were. I can use other sentinels now, so it's all good in my book. Besides, I haven't noticed much of a difference. Oh no, I have to move 3 steps to the left. What ever shall I do.

 

Cya veterino. Have fun finding another game to fill the void of this one.

[RBL3D]

Worst update ever. Bring old carrier back.

[Omega-Shadowblade]

Just now, TranceReality said:

Nothing you said here explains why you think a nerf was necessary. All sentinels have the effect so an 80% use rate when only one of them had it is irrelevant.

Fair enough. One point is the waste constantly created by vacuum. With its max range it had its habit of making life support and ammo get drawn in far earlier than it needed to be thus causing waste in how much went unused. In addition, 12 meters is not exactly a small distance, it is far more than is really necessary for most situations. I.e. Many portions of tileset are enclosed not even 8 meters in length. going along these routes means that most of the time all loot will be picked up in the same manner. This radius is also experimental. Waiting on feedback. I just hope that we actually get some instead of vague complaints.

[Th3Cl3ric]

Only 6m vacuum?! well ok, every sentinel have vacuum ok ok, but at least the carrier can get the 12m because IT IS the carrier! xD!

[-Fe-McHamm3rShot]

2 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

Mess around with what exactly? Companions suck and I do mean all of them.

Yes it does show a bad design. It shows a bad Game Design. Not ability design.

Companions suck because of scaling and the current damage system. People forgo complete crap for something that's useful. It's as simple as that.

You don't nerf something that's good because your game makes everything else suck. You fix your game so they no longer suck.

I agree, the other companions are poo poo sauce.. You nerfed the good one, so all the sucky ones are what? Less sucky?  

Carrier was used 80% beacause of the 12m vacuum.  Now thats gone..  all hail poo poo sauce!!

[Omega-Shadowblade]

2 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

 

You don't nerf something that's good because your game makes everything else suck. You fix your game so they no longer suck.

You also fix things that cause bad habits in game play. Mag's original greedy pull was "good". But it also encouraged extreme camping habits. In all, carrier was just a long overdue problem. It should have had something done about it long ago but it became rooted. You may not care for the sentinels, but at least I can make good use of them.

[Armetage]

6 minutes ago, Omega-Shadowblade said:

With that mindset, how does a larger vacuum radius have anything to do with improving the game as well? All it does is save a few seconds of movement and maybe allow players to stay entrenched in areas without having to leave to collect loot. 

Being able to pick up items easier lets player focus on the enemies and objective of the mission more than what's on the floor.  With a lowered range it will force people to spend more time picking up items.  Games are supposed to be fun not tedious.  With 80% of people using Carrier for Vacuum those stats alone show that the players of the game over all want and like Vacuum as it was.  Even with this change i will still be using Carrier regardless.  The only thing this change did in my eyes is make it harder to collect items, removed the option for players not to use vacuum, and opened up a mod slot on my Carrier.

[Godzilla853]

1 hour ago, Zanoza-chan said:

For the next hotfix:

  Hide contents

Looks like the texture of that polymer bundle might to be better

Looks like glowsticks.

[TranceReality]

2 minutes ago, Omega-Shadowblade said:

Fair enough. One point is the waste constantly created by vacuum. With its max range it had its habit of making life support and ammo get drawn in far earlier than it needed to be thus causing waste in how much went unused. In addition, 12 meters is not exactly a small distance, it is far more than is really necessary for most situations. I.e. Many portions of tileset are enclosed not even 8 meters in length. going along these routes means that most of the time all loot will be picked up in the same manner. This radius is also experimental. Waiting on feedback. I just hope that we actually get some instead of vague complaints.

I definitely agree about the life support getting eaten up constantly. Any frame with a toggle ability wastes energy orbs as well and unfortunately we no longer have the option of not using vacuum on our sentinels. Maybe they should allow us to toggle it off in the arsenal.

[Lhudge]

You should 

28 minutes ago, AOD_metalseed said:

Whiners requested. No single nerf has ever pissed me off this much. I'm not going to login today. Prolly not tomorrow either. They keep dumbing down and ruining what was a great game. :(

So I'm not the only one thinking this.

Bring the FUN DE, not a tedious game. 

And you still haven't justified this nerf.

[Omega-Shadowblade]

Just now, TranceReality said:

I definitely agree about the life support getting eaten up constantly. Any frame with a toggle ability wastes energy orbs as well and unfortunately we no longer have the option of not using vacuum on our sentinels. Maybe they should allow us to toggle it off in the arsenal.

That'd be a nice little feature for sure.

[SnuggleBuckets]

1 minute ago, Omega-Shadowblade said:

You also fix things that cause bad habits in game play.

And how exactly did vacuum encourage "bad habits", as you put it? By allowing players to focus on the mission at hand and helping teammates, instead of running off into a corner during a firefight for 10 seconds of circling some scrap on the floor?

Also, this isn't a multiplayer competitive game, so why is it any of your business what habits other players foster as long as they don't bring the team down? They are allowed to play as they see fit.

[_sheepy_]

4 minutes ago, Omega-Shadowblade said:

You also fix things that cause bad habits in game play. Mag's original greedy pull was "good". But it also encouraged extreme camping habits. In all, carrier was just a long overdue problem. It should have had something done about it long ago but it became rooted. You may not care for the sentinels, but at least I can make good use of them.

what was the long overdue problem that carrier had?

[Shockwave-]

1 hour ago, Cazzzz said:

I dont get all the salt with the 6m vacuum. Im just glad to be able to finally bring a sentinel that has something other than the damn vacuum, without losing out on its benefits. (Tbh, I dont even see a difference between the old and the new) 

You are losing out it's benefits, you don't have 12.5 meter vacuum. You are just happy that people who chose carrier have to forgo their benefits just like you chose to.