The 're-buff' to Vacuum actually made things worse

[7Random77]

9 hours ago, Evanescent said:

Well, 

Shade has ghost AND vacuum now.

Djinn has awesome CC AND vacuum now.

Wyrm has crowd dispersion AND vacuum now.

Helios has scanning AND vacuum now.

It's not only Carrier that has a bonus now, eh? What we now need is a buff so all of them are tankier, and we're set.

Prisma/wraith variants for other sentinels and they should be as tanky as carrier p.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

8 minutes ago, 7Random77 said:

Prisma/wraith variants for other sentinels and they should be as tanky as carrier p.

After the Nightwatch skin for the Diriga, I feel that we're getting really close to a Diriga Wraith. So stoked about it.

Prisma Shade is already a thing.

Helios Vandal? 

[Arniox]

20 minutes ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

I really would like to agree with you, but imho Shade's Ghost precept is pretty terrible compared to Huras' Stalk precept. Huras' Stalk has, I believe, a 30m detection range to proc invisibility with NO COOLDOWNS, whereas Shade's Ghost precept has a 10m LoS detection with a cooldown. Please correct me if Stalk and Ghost are statistically otherwise (with the exception of Ghost being LoS, it's LoS no question. :/ ). However, judging from this and if you've used Huras Kubrows extensively and comparatively to Shade, you would know that Huras are the better choice for companion-based cloaking for your Warframe.

All I can see from [Prisma] Shade right now is that it's a bullet sponge with a precept that makes it only attack when it is attacked (Revenge). It's Ghost precept is pretty damn useless in actual gameplay (unless I want to tippy-toe a Spy op for 40 minutes when it can be done in less 10 minutes; oh wait, Shade failed to make me invisible AGAIN... TRIGGERED).

edit: Unless the Ghost precept gets fixed, I am an absolute advocate against rumors for a Shade Prime in future Prime Accesses.

No. S#&$s. Given or Taken.

I will throw a table out the window if Shade Prime is a thing and the Ghost precept doesn't get buffed appropriately. 

 

I don't use shade that much. I'm just saying it's better in some ways than huras because it can now vacuum

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

6 minutes ago, Arniox said:

I don't use shade that much. I'm just saying it's better in some ways than huras because it can now vacuum

Yeah, Vacuum aside, all I can really say is try using Shade without a cloak frame like Loki, Ash, Ivara, or Banshee on a Spy op. More pertinently, an Infested Spy op. Shade will not protect you with Ghost, and people should not argue for Shade's terrible Ghost precept by using a frame that can cloak itself / CC for it. 

And Shade being better than a Huras because it has Vacuum is really stretching it. I'd rather use a Carrier Prime, Wyrm Prime, or Diriga to help me out than ever bringing a Shade. The PTSD is too @(*()$ real with that Sentinel, man.

Edited October 7, 2016 by (PS4)Lei-Lei_23

[(PSN)Mofojokers]

Lol

Edited October 7, 2016 by (PS4)Mofojokers

[(PSN)Mofojokers]

Or what ever lol

[-VV-Phantom-Phoenix]

16 hours ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

  Hide contents

So first, I just want to point out that there's zero reason to make thank-you threads for buffing Vacuum. People literally threatened them until they gave in. We should be ashamed, not happy with ourselves and them. They tried to make things better, and because of our childishness, the balance is worse than what it was.

On topic, the whole point of the Vacuum nerf was to ensure that the playerbase actually used something other than Carrier/Prime. With the nerf, there was actually some tiny reason to use something other than that Sentinel.

And then of course, players decided to throw a fit and make death threats to DE, and so they did the logical thing, and changed it so that every Sentinel had the original Precept.

Sounds great except now Carrier has both the ammo mutation, increased ammo capacity buff, and Vacuum. Which firmly puts it a nautical mile ahead of the competition, if they could be called that anymore.

...

So this is where's it's at? We whine, we rage, we threaten, and now the balance is even worse than when it started? This is what we wanted from the Vacuum changes?

Sitting here never using ammo mutation or ammo drum in any of my builds and with hundreds of large ammo plate that i've rarely ever used, hence why so many have been amassed.

Honestly how is carrier 'a mile ahead' of anything in any sense of the phrase, his ability is next to useless and all he's got is the fact he's tankier than the others, this still doesn't charge the fact he liked to get one-shot, regen and still get one-shot right after. My carrier p's got 90% of my sentinel play time but now he's getting that dragon nikana treatment, you still love it but it's never gonna see the light of day again.

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

16 hours ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

 the whole point of the Vacuum nerf was to ensure that the playerbase actually used something other than Carrier/Prime. With the nerf, there was actually some tiny reason to use something other than that Sentinel.

By taking away something people felt they needed. This is not how you encourage people to change their loadouts. If there's a problem with the game and people are trying to circumvent it because it's not fun, you don't slap the toys out of their hand and tell them "Play this our way or get out". You fix your bloody game. People have been begging for them to do something about the loot for years but DE has had no interest in it at all. So when people opt to use carrier, what? They call their user base lazy, ignore any and all suggestions for what the community wants and then offer up ideas that people tell them right away are not wanted nor needed, then go full steam ahead on a bad idea the people didn't want.

16 hours ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

With the nerf, there was actually some tiny reason to use something other than that Sentinel.

There wasn't though. They didn't even give kavats and kubrows the auto-vacuum. So most of the people who used carrier just kept using carrier due to the fact that most of the sentinels suck and the rest of them just aren't interesting enough to swap out for when carrier is one of, if not the, tankiest sentinel. Meanwhile people still ask for vacuum on their pets because that's an alternative people actually want. But again, ignored.

16 hours ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

And then of course, players decided to throw a fit and make death threats to DE, and so they did the logical thing, and changed it so that every Sentinel had the original Precept.

While there is no justification for sending death threats to anyone, DE knew it would make the community mad. People are tired of their ham-fisted attempts at balance and bull headed design decisions even when they spit in the face of their user base.

16 hours ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

Sounds great except now Carrier has both the ammo mutation, increased ammo capacity buff, and Vacuum. Which firmly puts it a nautical mile ahead of the competition, if they could be called that anymore.

It already was. Now you're trying to blame the community for this when most people would have just been okay with DE reverting the changes back to what it was before. This game has plenty of issues. Vacuum was a case of something not being broken that they tried to fix.

16 hours ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

So this is where's it's at? We whine, we rage, we threaten, and now the balance is even worse than when it started?

Well they don't listen to reasoned explanation, discussion or suggestion. When all other forms of communication are found faulty people will start to resort to more and more basic, primal ways of expressing themselves.

16 hours ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

This is what we wanted from the Vacuum changes?

No. People said exactly what they wanted, and have been saying exactly what they want, for ages.

[Eminem2420]

I agree. Personally I think vacuum I just a crutch to lazy players.

[Insizer]

At this point, I think the issue is with carrier and the other sentinels rather than Vacuum. Dethcube for one shoots nerf darts and tickle lasers, while Djinn has suicidal tendencies.

[Multicom-EN-]

Other sentinels needs to be buffed. Carrier Prime is BY FAR the most tanky sentinel.

[Urlan]

18 hours ago, Wolfdoggie said:

You wouldn't but I sure would/did. I hated the 6m range so much I wished I could materialize it's existence into real life just so I could punch it.

Fair enough!

[PoobahTheGrand]

 

22 hours ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

  Hide contents

So first, I just want to point out that there's zero reason to make thank-you threads for buffing Vacuum. People literally threatened them until they gave in. We should be ashamed, not happy with ourselves and them. They tried to make things better, and because of our childishness, the balance is worse than what it was.

 

Sounds great except now Carrier has both the ammo mutation, increased ammo capacity buff, and Vacuum. Which firmly puts it a nautical mile ahead of the competition, if they could be called that anymore.

...

So this is where's it's at? We whine, we rage, we threaten, and now the balance is even worse than when it started? This is what we wanted from the Vacuum changes?

Um, what? A nautical mile ahead of the competition? Please stop exaggerating so much. People wanted the vacuum mod to be universal across all sentinals, and that's what they got. But in the process, the carriers identity was stolen. So because they carrier received a new gimmick it's even more unbalanced than before? Was it just suppose to be the only sentinal without a gimmick? You can now use any of your favorite sentinals and not be restricted to use the carrier because now all sentinals can use vacuum. As far as I'm concerned, it's equal with the other sentinals..

[Arniox]

14 hours ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

Yeah, Vacuum aside, all I can really say is try using Shade without a cloak frame like Loki, Ash, Ivara, or Banshee on a Spy op. More pertinently, an Infested Spy op. Shade will not protect you with Ghost, and people should not argue for Shade's terrible Ghost precept by using a frame that can cloak itself / CC for it. 

And Shade being better than a Huras because it has Vacuum is really stretching it. I'd rather use a Carrier Prime, Wyrm Prime, or Diriga to help me out than ever bringing a Shade. The PTSD is too @(*()$ real with that Sentinel, man.

 

true enough. I would have to agree. tbh, I have a 6 forma Huras and I haven't even potato'ed or forma'ed my Prisma Shade. That tells me something...

I personally never use anything outside of carrier prime, djinn or helios // Hurus, Smeeta. Every other pet seems to suck

[Xzorn]

Wait...    So this is a thread complaining about people complaining and then complaining?

 

Addressing all feedback as throwing a fit and threats is in poor taste.

Also the people who would resort to such acts wouldn't care about someone's opinion on it, so it seems kinda pointless to remark.

This is a step in the right direction despite pessimism. From this point players can use other Sentinels and DE can gather feedback based on those numbers instead of just about 10% which is what they were getting before. Other Companions will be balanced accordingly.

My Carrier is 98% used with 3k game hours and I've been using Helios all day. Yes, Carrier is still the ideal Sentinel due to his eHP but it's not always needed anymore.

 

 

 

[Serialkillerwhale]

The real problem is, the other sentinel abilities are basically worthless, excluding shade and camera.

Dethcube: Vaporize is longer ranged and always an instant kill on non-bosses. Prioritizes eximi.

Wyrm: Crowd Dispersion knocks back,

Dijinn: Greatly increased durability during Fatal Attraction

And make regen better. Like this.

Sentinels respawn in 180/150/120/90/60/30 after destruction. No respawn limit

[RealPandemonium]

The real issue is that Carrier's unique precept is typically still more useful ( particularly when using high RoF weapons) than its competitors', whose unique precepts tend to have high cooldowns and low-to-mediocre output.  

Edited October 8, 2016 by RealPandemonium

[herflik]

Sentinels are like 5% (or less) of gameplay in this game, in most cases they can be ignored by players. Their DPS is super low, their eHP is low (even carrier), their utility is only good in some cases.

Personaly I would totally remake them. Remove their HP and make them immortal, they are nothing more than pets. I dont have time to bother about it when it offers so small amount of my overall perfomance on battlefield. For now I use my sentinel only for bit of CC, the vacuum, animal instinct (so radar) and shield restoration. On the end only the CC an shield restoration give me anything during battle, the other two are more like lazyness mods.

Make each of them have different build-in abilities, maybe 2, and then give them up to 4-6 slots for mods that are specialized in good support abilities. Without all the copy-paste mods from our warframes. So they will actualy support us in battle, instead of being poor flying bugs like they are now.

[Volinus7]

7 pages of meta complain GLORIOUS.

Why vacuum and carrier before the nerf?

Psychologically ppl used vacuum because it's "reliable" unlike other abilities that pop up once in a while in an uncontrollable fashion.

Also highbies don't care about sentinel damage output because it's negligible once your weapons are fully modded, the only factor left to be considered is "toughness" that's why a lot of ppl used carrier.

Tbh it's not that vacuum and carrier are too good but others are too bad.

If you really want ppl to use other sentinels just buff their survivability and ability precepts. 

Example

Vaporize > change to finisher dmg and remove 100% armor for 12sec

Crowd dispersion > when there're enemies in range release delayed waves in a set that after 1.5sec the waves will expand and knockdown, knockdown overrides other animation priority.

Fatal attraction > Djinn absorbs damage and add it to the blast in the end.

[NGSBRReAPeR]

On 10/8/2016 at 2:53 AM, Serialkillerwhale said:

Sentinels respawn in 180/150/120/90/60/30 after destruction. No respawn limit

How about this: Sentinel has a 20S period in which it can be repaired before being transported to the orbiter to prevent further Damage

And give us a Sentinel variant for Pack Leader and the one that adds to the bleedout timer

Edited October 10, 2016 by NGSBRReAPeR

[Troll_Logic]

17 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

But yeah, it did happen.

I have no doubt that someone was being an idiot, but not for a second do I think it was legitimate.

[Chipputer]

Just now, Troll_Logic said:

I have no doubt that someone was being an idiot, but not for a second do I think it was legitimate.

Neither do a good portion of sane people. But all most people hear is that it happened, not what was said, nor what was said by the person after Rebecca responded, or anything of the like. It's like the most morbid buzz word.

[Troll_Logic]

Just now, Chipputer said:

Neither do a good portion of sane people. But all most people hear is that it happened, not what was said, nor what was said by the person after Rebecca responded, or anything of the like. It's like the most morbid buzz word.

Exactly.  Ranked.

[ixacalibur]

I really don't mind the vacuum buff, It's a shame DE refuse to listed community's outcry in the first place instead gamble on this "experiment" changes, but also finding out there was a death threat involved is kinda messed up.

[Serialkillerwhale]

18 hours ago, NGSBRReAPeR said:

How about this: Sentinel has a 20S period in which it can be repaired before being transported to the orbiter to prevent further Damage

And give us a Sentinel variant for Pack Leader and the one that adds to the bleedout timer

My only problem with this is that given the sentinel basically stands right next to you, it's just a "Press L to Reset Sentry". And that it's basically a clone of kubrows.