Can we fix Vacuum pickup waste now?

[Ashnal]

As part of the minority that did not use Vacuum before the change (I liked companion variety), can we fix how Vacuum wastes energy and ammo? Currently, Vacuum will suck up every energy orb, even if you're only missing 1 energy from your pool. THis is especially bad if you're channeling. This wastes a lot of energy over time. When I'm playing low ammo reserve weapons like the Penta/Ogris/Tonkor, it pains me to see sniper ammo pickups Vacuumed up when I'm only missing 2 shots. The pickups are worth 10 ammo, and picking them up when you're only missing two shots.

This is the main reason why I did not use Vacuum before the update, and they did not fix it with the update. If logic for when to Vacuum those pickups is non-viable, I would prefer Vacuum be split into 2 precepts, one for Energy, Health, and Ammo, and another for all other loot. That way I can use Vacuum for loot, but not have pickup waste.

Edited October 7, 2016 by Ashnal

[Autongnosis]

You can choose to not equip the mod, or to equip a lower ranked version of it to have less range and more control on what's sucked up.

I don't really see the problem...

[Varacal]

4 minutes ago, Ashnal said:

This is the main reason why I did not use Vacuum before the update

then dont use vacuum, its a mod

[Ashnal]

6 minutes ago, Autongnosis said:

You can choose to not equip the mod, or to equip a lower ranked version of it to have less range and more control on what's sucked up.

I don't really see the problem...

Well, then it's the same as the last 3 years of playtime. No Vacuum use because it wastes resources. While they're looking at Vacuum now, why not propose a solution?

The real problem is the rift between the two pickup types, loot that is used outside of mission, and pickups that are used inside of mission.

4 minutes ago, Varacal said:

then dont use vacuum, its a mod

You're missing the point. What if I would like to be able to vacuum loot such as mods and resources, without wasting energy and ammo? Is that an unreasonable request?

Edited October 7, 2016 by Ashnal

[Autongnosis]

Just now, Ashnal said:

Well, then it's the same as the last 3 years of playtime. No Vacuum use because it wastes resources. While they're looking at Vacuum now, why not propose a solution?

Because i think that's inherent to the desing. You lose a bit of control on combat pickup to completely forget about picking up stuff manually. It's a trade-off, and a good one at that (imho).

That said, that's my opinion in general as to why vacuum works like that. Thouigh i didn't percieve your thread as a general feedback on how vacuum wastes combat pickups, more of a how vacuum inconveniences you, and thus answered you accordingly. Was i mistaken? Sorry then .-.

[Chewarette]

5 minutes ago, Ashnal said:

You're missing the point. What if I would like to be able to pickup loot such as mods and resources, without wasting energy and ammo? Is that an unreasonable request?

You can still walk on the loots you want to pickup and not walk on the loots you don't want to pickup (yet).

You request would generate other issues you don't care about apparently (but you should, you're not the only Warframe player.). I have a configuration on Mag without Flow and during Energy-limited Sorties, it goes down to 37 max-energy. With your "fix", nearly no energy orb would be picked and that would be annoying as hell.

Edited October 7, 2016 by Chewarette

[WhiteMarker]

I see this as a trade off. Vacuum makes things easier but at the same time it wastes 'resources', like energy and ammo. 

[Varacal]

5 minutes ago, Ashnal said:

You're missing the point. What if I would like to be able to vacuum loot such as mods and resources, without wasting energy and ammo? Is that an unreasonable request?

oh jeezus, either you use it or you dont, you dont get to be picky about it, and yes, its an unreasonable request, let me guess, you're one of the very few, and i mean very few, people who cheered when they wanted to separate vacuum into resource/ammo/orbs

[trunks013]

Its kinda the same if you walked over it to pick it right ?

The vacuum just vortex everything ( i prefer vortex to s**k sry )  like a regular vacuum.

In my mind it work as intended.

The real solution you want is not with the vacuum but more with the ability of a warframe to take ammo/energy/health.

What you want is probably something like this

Double TotalNRJPossible;

if( (TotalNRJPossible >= (energyOrbValue + currentNRJ) )

{

restore();

}

else

{

dontPick();

}

same for ammo an health.

But the whole thing will actualy make more trouble to somme tenno imo.

Edited October 7, 2016 by trunks013

[Ashnal]

6 minutes ago, Autongnosis said:

Because i think that's inherent to the desing. You lose a bit of control on combat pickup to completely forget about picking up stuff manually. It's a trade-off, and a good one at that (imho).

That said, that's my opinion in general as to why vacuum works like that. Thouigh i didn't percieve your thread as a general feedback on how vacuum wastes combat pickups, more of a how vacuum inconveniences you, and thus answered you accordingly. Was i mistaken? Sorry then .-.

It's both really. I'm not the only one who has a problem with this. And your solution to my problem is how I've dealt with it since Carrier has existed. I'd rather have a better solution after such a long time.

2 minutes ago, Varacal said:

oh jeezus, either you use it or you dont, you dont get to be picky about it, and yes, its an unreasonable request, let me guess, you're one of the very few, and i mean very few, people who cheered when they wanted to separate vacuum into resource/ammo/orbs

Why can't we be picky? The community only recently got Vacuum to be universal, why can't we fix it to not have this problem as well too? DE's attention is here now, so why not? And kind of, I would have preferred Vacuum to be 2 mods not 3, as explained in the opening post.

Edited October 7, 2016 by Ashnal

[Varacal]

1 minute ago, Ashnal said:

Why can't we be picky? The community only recently got Vacuum to be universal, why can't we fix it to not have this problem as well too? DE's attention is here now, so why not? And kind of, I would have preferred Vacuum to be 2 mods not 3, as explained in the opening post.

cause unlike the universal vacuum, only a very few likes being able to have more than 1 mod to pick up stuff

[Ashnal]

Just now, Varacal said:

cause unlike the universal vacuum, only a very few likes being able to have more than 1 mod to pick up stuff

It's not like sentinel mod slots are crowded like Warframe or Weapons. Three's way less competing mods for sentinel slots. The point of the mod system is to allow for customization, which is exactly what I'm asking for here.

[Xekrin]

23 minutes ago, Autongnosis said:

don't really see the problem...

The funny thing it is a problem though.  Whether you use vacuum or completely avoid that convenience in preference to controlling when exactly you gain ammo/energy/health.  

So people must give up the benefits of vacuum, especially now that is it on EVERY sentinel just so they do not feel like they are wasting energy or ammo.  How is this not a problem?

Every time I wrote up a well constructed thread on this topic in the past year I was constantly shot down with "well duh don't use carrier, pick everything up one by one!!"

Guess what?  I think the last two days threads are pretty darn good evidence that people extremely dislike this type of game play, so why are energy orbs and ammo wasted?  Not to mention the OP clearly states they were never a vacuum baby to begin with, so it isn't like they aren't used to picking up ammo and orbs manually;  You can't argue laziness over this one.  

Simple fact is whether we use vacuum or not, it is wasteful of supplies (orbs, ammo) because we have no choice but to waste the excess if we are too close to max capacity.

They gave us vacuum on every sentinel (and perhaps elsewhere in the future) so we could use it MORE not use it less because *gasp* we dont want to refill our 199/200 energy with a 50 energy orb.  

It is a waste and this is what this topic is about.  Not alternative solutions or band-aids to the problem.

Edited October 7, 2016 by Xekrin

[Varacal]

@Ashnal 

were you here when they announced their plan of 3 separate mods for vacuum for different drops? most if not all were not happy about that decision, even if it was just 2 people would not be happy about it, only people who werent angry you might ask? people who dont use vacuum, and what do you mean sentinel mod slots arent crowded? i had to sacrifice some mods cause i want to have the health/armor/shields, 2 precepts, regen, sanctuary, animal instincts, guardian. coolant leak, medi-ray, fired up, and now vacuum

Edited October 7, 2016 by Varacal

[Misgenesis]

What an amazing first few posts to a perfectly fine complaint about Vacuum. Waste is another reason why im never using Vacuum and it should be dealt with.

[KirukaChan]

Here's an idea: 3 different Vacuum mods. One that vacuums everything, one that only vacuums mods/resources/credits/affinity, and one that only vacuums health/energy/ammo. There, now the people who don't want to slot an extra mod don't have to, and the people who don't want things going to waste have a real alternative.

[Xekrin]

1 minute ago, Misgenesis said:

What an amazing first few posts to a perfectly fine complaint about Vacuum. Waste is another reason why im never using Vacuum and it should be dealt with.

Indeed, no matter what a thread is about there has to always ALWAYS be someone (usually several) who argue the point, counter with laziness, or the 'git gud' factor.  It makes them feel smug and superior or something I guess.

[Ghogiel]

I like that Vacuum is trading convience for precision. If people want control of what they pick up I don't think they should be using Vacuum. It's already undeniably a very useful mod as proven by it's use stats. People want the best of both worlds and I don't really feel that fits how Vac should operate.

[menll]

primed flow, my friend.

[Neear]

I like the current vacuum fix as is. Like others have said if you don't like it use a lower ranked version or don't use it at all. It seems like you were more for the terrible 3 mod idea DE originally proposed which I for one hope they never do that.

[Golmihr]

It can't be much of a problem if it's a problem that only occur when you are already near max in ammo or energy. For the rare cases where you actually manage to run out despite wasting pick-ups for the most of the run you can just use an ammo or energy pad. That beats back tracking anyway with time saved, time you could spend in another mission earning the cost of the pad back.

[Kalvorax]

the issue ISN'T VACUUM..its the fact we CAN pick up energy/ammo/health WHEN WE ARE ONLY LOSING 1 of that resource....so say i use a power it I'm at 150 energy..i go down to say, 145.....an energy orb restore 25/50...IF it was properly coded, then i wouldn't pick up that orb in the first place...if i used an ult that took 25 energy then i WOULD pick up the 25 energy orb....its the same for ammo/health.

(supporting OP)

[Redeye]

6 minutes ago, KirukaChan said:

Here's an idea: 3 different Vacuum mods. One that vacuums everything, one that only vacuums mods/resources/credits/affinity, and one that only vacuums health/energy/ammo. There, now the people who don't want to slot an extra mod don't have to, and the people who don't want things going to waste have a real alternative.

I was actually going to post the exact same idea. I don't mind wasting energy/ammo with vaccuum, but I'm not fond of the idea consisting in wasting 3 mod slots for QoL stuff of the same kind. If the 3 other mods get implemented as the Vaccuum mod remains, I wouldn't mind at all and it'd make everyone happy. Except the Kubrow/Kavat users.

[AdunSaveMe]

Here's a nice idea (shameless)

if it applies to health too, that's a huge QoL change that doesn't really unbalance anything. Dunno bout ammo, but it should be okay.

[.Juger.]

That was what DE wanted to do, split the mod into 3. But everyone complaints...