Warframe, balance and community.

[BlackCoMerc]

So...le me get this straight:

DE finally promised a positive change by making vacuum universal.

Then, just to troll, they cut the range to half what people had before, with no way to increase it.

But it's the fault of players that we were angry. Right.

If you plan to troll your community - to deliberately anger them for no better reason than passive aggressive behavior to show "we are doing this, but we aren't giving in. We are doing it OUR way" - don't act all surprised and innocent when it blows up. Dont paint yourself as a victim when your trolling angers people.

That said: death threats are ridiculous. I mean, really people? And over a video game? Grow up.

But for the devs hand in this: when you deliberately troll your fan base, you aren't the innocent victim.

[Kinetos]

3 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

But it's the fault of players that we were angry. Right.

Anger is a reaction that only you can control. DE can't make you be angry. You can get angry because DE did something you don't like. 

[BlackCoMerc]

Just now, KinetosImpetus said:

Anger is a reaction that only you can control. DE can't make you be angry. You can get angry because DE did something you don't like. 

You're right.

But anger is not always the unjust villain you attempt to paint it as, either.

DE chose to deliberately do something they KNEW would anger their community. It was passive aggressive childishness in the extreme. No denying that. Just trying to make universal vacuum as bitter a pill as they could out of spite at giving in to demands for it.

And their trolling angered people. And they try and come off as surprised and shocked by that fact.

Please. 

[Kinetos]

5 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

You're right.

But anger is not always the unjust villain you attempt to paint it as, either.

DE chose to deliberately do something they KNEW would anger their community. It was passive aggressive childishness in the extreme. No denying that. Just trying to make universal vacuum as bitter a pill as they could out of spite at giving in to demands for it.

And their trolling angered people. And they try and come off as surprised and shocked by that fact.

Please. 

I never said it was wrong or unjustifiable to ever feel angry. But behaving poorly is on the community, not DE. 

Anger can be a motivator for civil discussion. If you don't usually post, but a change happens that you feel strongly about, you are more likely to post at all and that's good. But posting in an angry way isn't. 

Edited October 12, 2016 by KinetosImpetus

[BornWithTeeth]

Just now, BlackCoMerc said:

You're right.

But anger is not always the unjust villain you attempt to paint it as, either.

DE chose to deliberately do something they KNEW would anger their community. It was passive aggressive childishness in the extreme. No denying that. Just trying to make universal vacuum as bitter a pill as they could out of spite at giving in to demands for it.

And their trolling angered people. And they try and come off as surprised and shocked by that fact.

Please. 

They did quite explicitly call the initial release as an experiment. They were very likely lowballing it to begin with, and were prepared to increase the range dependent on feedback, slowly ramping the range back out to a more reasonable compromise.

 

What they were not prepared for was such a degree of toxicity in that feedback.

[kubbi]

In no way is it okay to send death threats or be disrespectful. 

However I can understand people getting angry. Look at how quik DE responded and reacted to the outrage. I cant condone outrages but I must say on multiple occasions it has proven to be effective. Just laying out an observation.

[(PSN)Elctrcstel]

16 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

So. Either Damage 3.0 is going to be massive powercreep which finally just breaks the game's own mechanics, or Damage 3.0 is going to be the rebalancing which the game rather needs. In the case of the latter, the community will break, they will hurl death threats, they will DDoS the game, the forums, the website, everything.

I'm bettin on the latter. it's is going to be something that is really good and really well thought out...the community will have a conniption and turn it into a massive S#&$ storm and DE will realy have to step up and stand by the decision that they made with that one, or cave and let the game become a broken powercreep-fest. 

people just can't recognize things that are for the betterment of the game through the fog of their Meta ways.

[xXx_mtv_xXx]

I would love to see mandatory mods removed (and refunded obviously) with damage 3.0 because I can never find enough slots on my weapons for all the specialised mods we have. If people rage about that then they have personal issues lol.

[(PSN)KainBethell]

4 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

What they were not prepared for was such a degree of toxicity in that feedback.

So that means that they did not judge the situation correctly

One thing to remember is that this was originally covered in a "DElayed" topic created by Steve if I am not mistaken, would you really feel that not giving them 100% what was asked for to appease the masses would have been a better idea, then to try something new and see how it goes

After all it was to help the pain of all the "Delayed" comments and feeling from the community

I personally believe the Tenno here are very understanding with DE and want to help DE's dream for warframe come true

[Dizzle22]

It's a double edged sword when people are passionate about your game. People will love the changes they love, and hate the changes they hate. This is actually healthy, and skepticism to bad changes is a good thing for the game, and why I hate when people use the phrase "change is good" as a blanket defense. I agree that we need to keep things civil and that death threats and the like are childish and unacceptable. Things did get out of hand.

That said, people are very worried about the game. The entirety of update 19 so far has been worrisome to say the least, and a completely failed experiment to say the worst. You know those other games that have had those "turning points" where everything was downhill from there and the game eventually died? Some people are afraid of something like that.

Some people are just d-cks too.

 

The outrage over vacuum was extremely predicable. I said a nerf to it would be a massive issue months ago on here. How DE thought it was going to go any other way, I have no idea.

Now, if you really want some warning point worthy conspiracy theories... notice how the vacuum outrage happened right as they announced that TWW was getting another massive delay? Everyone was so busy setting the forums on fire,  and then eventually being placated by DE's reversal, that they didn't even care about TWW anymore.

Is it possible the whole Vacuum thing was a manufactured controversy? 

[Sajochi]

4 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

They did quite explicitly call the initial release as an experiment. They were very likely lowballing it to begin with, and were prepared to increase the range dependent on feedback, slowly ramping the range back out to a more reasonable compromise.

 

What they were not prepared for was such a degree of toxicity in that feedback.

This. 100% this. It's always better to lowball and work toward an area both parties can be comfortable with. The issue lies with internet culture itself. It's always one extreme or the other. There's no room for compromise. DE at least attempts to make a compromise when it helps the game improve in the long run. I'm very much surprised they still listen to the conmunity at all.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

I think a large part of the issue with this community is that no one outside DE can guess what their end goals are. I'm inclined to believe there aren't any.

What I mean is, when it became obvious to me that a game like Destiny was not attempting to be what I'd hoped, I stopped playing. Likewise for a few other free-to-play games I've tried. But with Warframe, the additions are often contradictory, or add new content without reaching a clear finished state for old content. For example, the Synoid Simulor got released in the midst of balance changes to frames to make them less mindless to use. Or, while usage rates were being cited as issues for sentinels and weapons in terms of balance, mods like Blood Rush and Body Count dropped that pushed melee towards specific weapons more than before.

Meanwhile, long-standing issues continue to be ignored/forgotten. I don't remember the last time I played an Invasion or Nightmare mission. Those modes have had issues since their inception, and have only had tiny changes. I don't care about Focus at this point, and I know others agree. My last friend to play Warframe quit immediately after playing the Law of Retribution; I fell asleep doing the run.

When those issues aren't ignored, they often don't get the full level of fixes they need. Archwing is the last clear example: it's newest update really needed to be all-encompassing. Instead, it's a weird mix between where it was and where it would need to be for six degree movement to work.

What this all ultimately means is people can believe this game should appeal to them. It does a lot of things at a mediocre level. But when DE decides they want to improve the quality of something, often at the expense of other things (and often in a roundabout way), they anger everyone who thought the game was supposed to be something else. I'm willing to bet that, were the game less expansive but better designed, the community would be similarly sized and yet filled with people who all knew what Warframe wanted to be, and therefore be accepting of changes to achieve that.

[(PSN)maso_sage-mode]

They did too many wrong things and people got angry ( yes some nerfs are sooo wrong and some reworks are nothing but nerfs). I am ok with reworks and rebalancing of the ingame stuff...but if you rework something the thing must not be destroyed to the ground and become unplayable. I dont like the toxicity that nowadays we have on forums and ingame but its the result of all these small things. I still try to remain positive about the future changes hoping that the developers will do their best to bring us fun and rewarding content with a good amount of balance between guns and frames. I dont mind waiting a lot for TWW, im waiting now and hoping to see to some drastical changes to pve, clan activities, rebalancing of ALL weapons, the comeback of endless runs with some loot limits, replayable quests, some warframe reworks ( oberon, zephyr, hydroid, mag), more EVENTS please !!!!

Last to add : a lot of people are inactive and left the clan because of this dead period in game and this makes me really annoyed and angry .... When I see veterans leaving the game I always ask myself : why do I still remain here ???? just for the clan

Edited October 12, 2016 by (PS4)maso_sage-mode

[Zarozian]

4 hours ago, Zachles said:

I agree, and at the risk of also receiving a sharp whack on the hand by the commod ruler, I will add that something I've noticed between 2013 when I began playing, and this year, is that the community has become plagued with toxic people and rude behavior. It's almost reminiscent of League of Legends, at least for me.

I think maybe it has something to do with the fact that consoles are more readily available to people below the age of eighteen, but I don't know. I mean, considering that Warframe is rated M for mature, there seems to be a lot of immature behavior happening. It makes me not want to post on the Forums, and I used to be extremely active.

I really like helping people out, but I don't enjoy the negative attitudes and the like.

Same here! I've been around since 2013!

The toxic people arrived along with the Dark Sectors! 

And the days were dark! o -o

[Misgenesis]

Any remarks? Why yes.

DE caved in into kneejerk reactions which they often tell US about. Instead of making loot irrelevant they should have gone with the 6 meter chopped mods Vacuum.

Im convinced they didnt think this one through and just wanted to please the most regardless of balance.

[BlackCoMerc]

30 minutes ago, (PS4)WiiConquered said:

I think a large part of the issue with this community is that no one outside DE can guess what their end goals are. I'm inclined to believe there aren't any.

What I mean is, when it became obvious to me that a game like Destiny was not attempting to be what I'd hoped, I stopped playing. Likewise for a few other free-to-play games I've tried. But with Warframe, the additions are often contradictory, or add new content without reaching a clear finished state for old content. For example, the Synoid Simulor got released in the midst of balance changes to frames to make them less mindless to use. Or, while usage rates were being cited as issues for sentinels and weapons in terms of balance, mods like Blood Rush and Body Count dropped that pushed melee towards specific weapons more than before.

Meanwhile, long-standing issues continue to be ignored/forgotten. I don't remember the last time I played an Invasion or Nightmare mission. Those modes have had issues since their inception, and have only had tiny changes. I don't care about Focus at this point, and I know others agree. My last friend to play Warframe quit immediately after playing the Law of Retribution; I fell asleep doing the run.

When those issues aren't ignored, they often don't get the full level of fixes they need. Archwing is the last clear example: it's newest update really needed to be all-encompassing. Instead, it's a weird mix between where it was and where it would need to be for six degree movement to work.

What this all ultimately means is people can believe this game should appeal to them. It does a lot of things at a mediocre level. But when DE decides they want to improve the quality of something, often at the expense of other things (and often in a roundabout way), they anger everyone who thought the game was supposed to be something else. I'm willing to bet that, were the game less expansive but better designed, the community would be similarly sized and yet filled with people who all knew what Warframe wanted to be, and therefore be accepting of changes to achieve that.

Very well said. I agree with this, and think it's something DE should take to heart.

Right now the game lacks coherence. It's just a jumble of semi related mechanics piked atop increasingly annoying grind. It's a house of cards waiting on either some stiff glue or a high wind...it needs coherence, a unifying design philosophy.

[woah_dude]

1 hour ago, CrazyCortex said:

This. 100% this. It's always better to lowball and work toward an area both parties can be comfortable with. The issue lies with internet culture itself. It's always one extreme or the other. There's no room for compromise. DE at least attempts to make a compromise when it helps the game improve in the long run. I'm very much surprised they still listen to the conmunity at all.

Your argument would be valid if Devs actually made consistent numerical changes to balance the game every 2-3-4 weeks or so, slowly improving garbage and S#&$ skills, horrible weapons, tweaking enemy scaling and numbers. They don't do anything like that at all, the consistent modus operandi is - release something, tweak it initially a bit for a week (as per your own vision and not what community wants really) and then let it rot for a year+ until S#&$posting reaches such stages that u can no longer ignore it. Rinse, repeat.

Granted recent batch of reworks were not that bad in regards to some frames/abilities, but it still requires 20+ pages of consistent feedback mixed with whining which in turn annoys the hell out of players. A lot of changes remain in the game regardless of what players want, because thats "their vision" and thats the end of the discussion. 

Vaccuum according to many was an issue for 3 years already, so when people first heard that its going to be 3 mods followed by an effective range nerf of ~80%, after 3 years you could actually put some effort and thought into the changes u want to implement and not spit in the face of community. (for the record i don't care about vaccuum and use smeeta mostly caz  i don't play the game anymore besides 100k focus daily farm in hopes that someday the system would be better than a half-assed turd it currently is) 

In essence what community asked was a REAL quality of life improvement and what it got  were 2 versions of "how to nerf vaccuum which 80%+ of our playerbase use and disguise it as a blessing", which is all too common from DE and their QoL reworks of Hydroid and whatever else they don't like on that particular day or deem "too op". Its not like Vaccuum kills enemies either, its simply a pickup radius option which is common in many loot drop based games.

 

Finally, i myself don't mind nerfs or changes to the game if there is a consistent work on the balance and improvements to the game in general, unfortunately, what we get is:

1) "Here are some nerfs bro + we plan to fix some bugs *cough multishot cough* and kind a want to rid of mandatory mods eventually"

2) "Ok, do i get something in return caz of all the work i put into frame/weapon or maybe some improvement to broken enemy mechanics and a version of i 1 shot u or u 1 shot me"? 

1) "Hmmm, thats a valid concern, we will work on that eventually. Oh by the way, we just released a batch of new cool mods which make a variety of other mods obsolete and make the new mods mandatory + here is cool PA with the highest damage numbers for shotgun and melee ever. Cool, right?"

2) "Do we at least get any sort of endgame content which would provide an adequate challenge/reward ratio? Maybe work a bit on Sorties instead of increasing enemy levels by 30-50-70 levels and slapping a random debuff during the mission? Or perhaps additional raids which would provide some interesting challenges and rewards? Maybe new set of QoL arcanes for some stuff like reload speed/weapon swap speed or anything but the usual wall latch ones and ice resistance?"

1) "Lul, No. No one plays raids anyway according to this cool chart which we just pulled out of our &#! with no context whatsoever, so we won't bother anymore caz it has a poor ROI (return on investment) xDDDD" 

2) "What if the fault is not with the community and there are some problems with rewards/time/mechanics of the Raid itself?"

1) "Dear Tenno, we Thank you for your feedback, this topic is now closed. We will continue to monitor this issue closely" (translation: no we won't caz we need to work on a new shiny thing to sell or rework some old half-assed system due to a wave of complaints recently)

 

Thats my personal impression of the feedback loop on forums and reddit ~_~ 

 

P.S: last thing i want to add, its bad when a S#&$storm  + constant whining is about the only thing that can get things done in the game. Its sets a bad example and essentially rewards such behaviour in the future, sort a like Childish Tantrums (granted, Children=Tenno often get treated unfairly by the parent=DE). Makes for an abusive relationship and toxic environment in general and makes all the parties unhappy :/

Edited October 12, 2016 by b0_on

[UrbanShade]

Death threats, if it was even possible, is insane. BTW, why community (and myselfe included) was upset or even angry - is unnecessary change to Vacuum radius.

Firstly, i was sceptical about it, and there was need to check that 6 meters ingame, before making any assumptions. But, when it arrived, that 6 meters was outright awfull! Maybe, it sound good on paper, but actually, in game, its pretty unconvinient, and u was even able to unequip Vacuum mod to get practically same result, but with that old problem, that you need to dansing aroud to get that drops.

Vacuum aren't that overpowered mechanic. Yep, you can vacuum health or mana orbs, ammo. But same can be done, without actual drop, with pizzas on hotkeys. So, Vacuum, is just quality of life mechanic, that works pretty well in terms of game. I can justificate, when u need to go over loot, when there is 3-4 drops, but in warframe practically any enemy dropping something, ammo, mod, resource, orb, etc. So there is A LOT of objects to pick up, and enemies is still coming and coming, coming and coming. Im will be happy to totally get rid of Vacuum, if there will be 1 drop of 600 salvages instead of 20 drops of 30 salvage each. So i can go and pick that up manually by walking over it. Same case with ammo. If there will be drop of ammo, that will instantly refill 1/4 or even 1/3 of my totall ammo, in place of 20-30 ammo drop, but even in that case mods will be in bad condition, because sometimes they glitch on pits, because of buggy drops, etc, and u cant put 20 mods in one mod to pickup. 

Other thing, why practically everybody was run with Carrier (Prime in main case) because it is tankiest of all sentinels. Its weak, by the way (in health, shield and armor, especially armor, department), but still has best survivabillity. Also, u should count other sentinels precepts. Deathcube? its damage so insanely weak, that its even funny. Wyrm got weak CC, Djin got good abillity, but contradictionar to its stats, because he arent tanky, Diriga is very ok, abillity and statwise, Helios is awesome with its ability and augment, weak statwise, so Carrier just had best abillity, that worked well, best stats, out of all sentinels, and best weapon (before Vuklok, and still even 2nd best by dmg, and better than Vuklok in dps department).

im, personally, will no care about nerf of Simulor, Tonkor, Galatine, even Tigris or something like it, and will found the working way to play other weapons or even them, and im will be happy to see DMG 3.0 with delete of mandatory mods, but im expecting enemie changes in same time, not before, not after. Im expecting total rework of enemy damage, health and shields, because im not want to oneshot everything with my moded Viper on level 60s (if enemy HP and armor will be nerfed, but out mods will stay as is), but im also not want to spend half of Braton clip to same enemy in lvl 20 (if our damage will be touched, but enemies will stay as is).

Kinda same i can say about upcoming Ash rework. im not against it, but Ash should be properly rebalanced, not just one skill, but whole kit. Because without ultimate Ash is just ripoff version from Loki, with strange 1st abillity, ripoff and worse 2nd ability, ripoff teleport and more powerfull (yeah, Developers thinking about up damage on ult, arent that already high enough to outright kill Bombards on lvl100?) but slower casting (because u will need to mark each individual target, not like now u just aiming at first visible enemy, and then clones and ash himselfe jumping between neighbors of 1st target) ultimate abillity. Ash not need more power on ultimate, its already good, scaling with melee combo counter. Ash need other skills to be reliable.

 

[DxAdder]

As I have said before I have no issue with balancing weapons/frame/frame powers but when you decide to do it 6 months + after its released you better be prepared for the 

backlash because it coming.

Ash Bladestorm re-work is a joke, I thought the Original Mesa re-work was bad but they still found a way to make the use of a power worse !

Vacuum changes : What were you thinking? DE had to know what the feedback would be yet they still did it and had to go back and fix it.

DE needs to take a hard look at there team and make some significant changes before this game drops off everyone's radar.

Steam Chart:

Month	Avg. Players	Gain	% Gain	Peak Players
Last 30 Days	21,424.3	-1,351.6	-5.93%	34,067
September 2016	22,775.9	-3,772.5	-14.21%	39,037
August 2016	26,548.4	-1,977.8	-6.93%	46,268

 

The Current DE staff continues to damage there brand and its showing. They really need to get here house in order.

 

 

 

 

[Sirfol]

I like the honesty of this thread, so i try to contribute with my 2 cents. The problem i see here is that this game can't be categorized in a normal way, not alpha because of the shop, and not beta because there is a gigantic quantity of content, but in beta category because the game is still evolving, changing in mechanics.

The problem is the time between updates, adding content and so on is unlike any other game that people tryed until now (standard player, the one who play a online game and see a update with bugfixes and content every 3 months), u add the fact that in warframe is possible to change playstyle in any given moment to please all the type of player and you have a mix where every move and "Change" you do is bound to have every opinion on the matter, even if not logical for some.

DE sinned when they gave to ALL the people the right to be a beta tester and at the same time given themselves all degrees of creative feedback, bugtesting, suggestions of feature, suggestion of QoL improvement; The community, a parliament, the Council is the senate and lastly DE is the "president" all of this because we are all making the same exact mistake, we do not have the perception of time in the creation of content. We have something new in our hands (i'm talking to the community as a whole) a game shaped in lights of the opinions of the playerbase, but with professionals that give forms to all that light.

WE the community CAN'T see the game as a whole, because we create the light and we only see what we saw, some like archwing some don't, some like conclave or lunaro some don't, some like exterminate some defence and so on, OUR personal judgement will be every single time coming from our prespective, and DE see all the feedback born from those perspective so it's bound (ironically) to be different from our perspective, because we are not alone, we are in the community.

If i can give a suggestion for DE is to Shatter the preconception of the communication between the Singular entity(our ego) and DE, create a new method to show what the community WANT (because this is the issue, we know what we want as a person but not as community), create a mirror where we can see the result of Our opinion and not of my chained opinion. Devstream is a great way to show your perspective, your creative content, your ideology but at the end of the day i can't see where my idea is in the scale of the great mind of the community as a whole.

and maybe i'm being optimistic, i don't know but i hope my message can climb over the language barrier ^^'.

[Kai_Shiba]

1 hour ago, DxAdder said:

As I have said before I have no issue with balancing weapons/frame/frame powers but when you decide to do it 6 months + after its released you better be prepared for the 

backlash because it coming.

Ash Bladestorm re-work is a joke, I thought the Original Mesa re-work was bad but they still found a way to make the use of a power worse !

Vacuum changes : What were you thinking? DE had to know what the feedback would be yet they still did it and had to go back and fix it.

DE needs to take a hard look at there team and make some significant changes before this game drops off everyone's radar.

Steam Chart:

Month	Avg. Players	Gain	% Gain	Peak Players
Last 30 Days	21,424.3	-1,351.6	-5.93%	34,067
September 2016	22,775.9	-3,772.5	-14.21%	39,037
August 2016	26,548.4	-1,977.8	-6.93%	46,268

 

The Current DE staff continues to damage there brand and its showing. They really need to get here house in order.

 

 

 

 

I wish people would stop using the steam charts in their argument, it's a joke way to show how many players are playing the game. Unless some person actually makes a website that shows every single PC players, using the steam charts just makes the point you're trying to make fall flat.

Also, how do you know it's because of the update? Do you know every individual player who haven't played during that time frame? Was it because of the update? They're busy with work? Or just playing something else not because of the update, but because of a new release of a game? You don't know that, no one does except the player who stopped told you.

It really doesn't hold up sadly

 

Edited October 12, 2016 by Kai_Shiba

[BlackCoMerc]

1 hour ago, DxAdder said:

As I have said before I have no issue with balancing weapons/frame/frame powers but when you decide to do it 6 months + after its released you better be prepared for the 

backlash because it coming.

Ash Bladestorm re-work is a joke, I thought the Original Mesa re-work was bad but they still found a way to make the use of a power worse !

Vacuum changes : What were you thinking? DE had to know what the feedback would be yet they still did it and had to go back and fix it.

DE needs to take a hard look at there team and make some significant changes before this game drops off everyone's radar.

Steam Chart:

Month	Avg. Players	Gain	% Gain	Peak Players
Last 30 Days	21,424.3	-1,351.6	-5.93%	34,067
September 2016	22,775.9	-3,772.5	-14.21%	39,037
August 2016	26,548.4	-1,977.8	-6.93%	46,268

 

The Current DE staff continues to damage there brand and its showing. They really need to get here house in order.

 

 

 

 

These are valid points. Bluntly phrased, but valid nonetheless.

[LascarCapable]

Thanks to those who remained constructive and are participating to the debate so far.

As a moderator, I can say that I see a lot of poop. However the reactions of some of you were actually pretty heartwarming to hear. Yes, we're in a pretty tedious time, we're still waiting for the war within that keeps getting pushed back, but seriously let's not let events from a video game showing out the worst of ourselves.

There's one thing I would like people to understand : it's okay to not be pleased by a change. However this NEVER gives you the right to act obnoxiously about it. Just look at me : whenever there's something in a state that I don't like, I just try to make a feedback as constructive as possible. I'd even argue that it was useful somehow : you see Hydroid's first ability ? I asked for his first power to be actually recastable in a lot of threads and it finally happened at some point.

Sarcastic comments or insults will never make the game progress. Only a decent and clear feedback supported by a lot of people will.

Thank you. :)

[AM-Bunny]

How is this thread not a metacomplaint? It's literally a criticism of the community's behaviour. 

On 12/10/2016 at 6:03 AM, D20 said:

When I'm bored, I oftely try to find new websites about subjects I like. Oftenly Warframe. And what I find oftenly amaze me (not in a good way) : it's really not that uncommon that I see people demonizing DE for such a light subject than weapon or warframe balance. Very oftenly on changes that didn't seem that much of an issue.

 

Edited October 13, 2016 by [DE]Taylor
derailment is against the rules

[(PSN)Elctrcstel]

1 hour ago, DxAdder said:

Steam Chart:

Month	Avg. Players	Gain	% Gain	Peak Players
Last 30 Days	21,424.3	-1,351.6	-5.93%	34,067
September 2016	22,775.9	-3,772.5	-14.21%	39,037
August 2016	26,548.4	-1,977.8	-6.93%	46,268

 

The Current DE staff continues to damage there brand and its showing. They really need to get here house in order.

 

 

using the steam chart is a far reach at best. the steam chart does not show standalone PC players. the steam chart does not show PS4 players. the steam chart does not show XB1 players.

just to add some comments to back up Kai

28 minutes ago, Kai_Shiba said:

I wish people would stop using the steam charts in their argument, it's a joke way to show how many players are playing the game. Unless some person actually makes a website that shows every single PC players, using the steam charts just makes the point you're trying to make fall flat.

Also, how do you know it's because of the update? Do you know every individual player who haven't played during that time frame? Was it because of the update? They're busy with work? Or just playing something else not because of the update, but because of a new release of a game? You don't know that, no one does except the player who stopped told you.

It really doesn't hold up sadly