blackheartstar_pc Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 4 hours ago, (PS4)Magician_NG said: without sacrificing anything other than their time. That's the most valuable resource I have to sacrifice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proxykon Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 I am not content with this system either. Why does it have to be a new relic for every new rotation? Why can't we just have it combined with the refinement level of the relic? In my example that would mean a radiant relic would give you the same relic pool for a complete rotation (until wave 20 / minute 20 / interception wave 4 ) while every lesser refinement of the same relic will only net you one rotation less (i.e. flawless - being one level under radiant - only giving you the relic pool for 15 waves / 15 minutes / 3 interception waves and exceptional giving you the relic pool for 10 waves / 10 minutes / 2 interception waves). Intact relics could stay the way they would like shown in the devstream. What was shown in the devstream is a solid idea I had worked out as well, BUT such a system would only incline the use of more relics while it is still very hard to get the relics you actually need, creating an even bigger bottleneck for everybody. The availability of relic acquisition needs to be adressed and taken seriously, should this endless system become effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rioma Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 I think they said you will get more void traces the longer you stay. IDK if by that they mean more than you would normally, or if you simply get another roll for them. But yeah it doesn't really solve the problem with endless. It would still be 1 relic per reward so it will be less efficient than doing exterminate or something since it takes longer. How would this even work in excavation missions >.> Pause every excavator? What if you didn't get 10 reactant per excavator >.> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irorone Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 8 minutes ago, blackheartstar_pc said: That's the most valuable resource I have to sacrifice. Also the most limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faeduin Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 6 minutes ago, Doc-Orange said: My option comes from the talk with a good number of players which left in the last months. The absolute majority left because of the latest game changes, not because the wait. My bet is that they will try again with TTW, see that the new core mechanic is still there and leave after a short period of time. How many did you speak to, when did you speak to them? If you are going to spout results from a pool of data without actually sharing that pool of data then you can't honestly blame anyone for thinking it's made up. Steam charts aren't a good representation of total player count and even if they were they wouldn't be in favor of your doom and gloom as they clearly show a trend alongside major updates in the past with room set aside for the steady growth of the playerbase. TWW will hit and those numbers will soar back up to 40k and over and all of these posts linking to charts will die down until the next ravine between major updates and we'll all be right back here, scratching our heads as to why people didn't get it the first dozen times. This has nothing to do with with whatever the perceived community as a whole wants and if you are willing to pay attention, it's pretty clear that again and like usual, the community seems split down the middle on recent and proposed changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc-Orange Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 Just now, Kedai said: How many did you speak to, when did you speak to them? If you are going to spout results from a pool of data without actually sharing that pool of data then you can't honestly blame anyone for thinking it's made up. Steam charts aren't a good representation of total player count and even if they were they wouldn't be in favor of your doom and gloom as they clearly show a trend alongside major updates in the past with room set aside for the steady growth of the playerbase. TWW will hit and those numbers will soar back up to 40k and over and all of these posts linking to charts will die down until the next ravine between major updates and we'll all be right back here, scratching our heads as to why people didn't get it the first dozen times. This has nothing to do with with whatever the perceived community as a whole wants and if you are willing to pay attention, it's pretty clear that again and like usual, the community seems split down the middle on recent and proposed changes. It's very easy to find out. Lets wait to January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volinus7 Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 (edited) Psychologically, for someone who played this game for a long period of time like 1200,1500 or 2000+ hrs they always do the same thing over and over get new frames weapons or mods forma them and test builds, of cause "the wait is nothing" because one can expect that they will be just the same thing for each minor patch that adds frames weapons or mods anyway the decisive factor that will keep or drive them away is mechanics update or new game mode. "Why they left the game?" because complaining on forum get ignored most of the time. This game and this forum are not democratic there's no vote even they complain there might be an equally counter force to oppose them. So the best way to let DE know that they don't like something is to stop playing the game. But there're a lot that play just to perfect their accounts so even if it's not fun rewarding enjoyable or challenging as long as they can endure they continue playing the game. There're ppl who adapt or accept changes too either they haven't reach saturation point yet or they really enjoy doing same thing over and over and don't mind the detail. Edited October 28, 2016 by Volinus7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--RV--arm4geddon-117 Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 make it so beside the traces and what not you give some score like in the events ( take the index it went away with me sitting around 8000 pts etc ) u get xx pts every yy time, the longer you stay the more pts, when u have a few thousands you get to unlock an UNIQUE item/weapon/mod/etc, a little cherry for those who like to fight bullet sponges for some time. i gotta say i can't wait for the index to be back i found a random team we hit 1018 in the endless and hell it was good to fight those lvl's 700.the rewards ( new mods ) were negligible but i haven't had so much fun in a so called endurance since the old void..there was the score to keep us going plus the good feeling of a random team fitting perfectly together, an extra incentive in unique rewards for endurance/endless would be perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volinus7 Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 I missed old key buffet. Hey can I downgrade to u17?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irorone Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, pauli133 said: Freeloading off a single key is gone. Forever. Get used to it. People wanted a way to get additional rewards from extended stays in endless missions, and this is it - you can stay and keep opening additional relics as you go. People didn't want freeloaders before either, that's one of the only good bits of void 2.0 is everybody has to pay admission if they want a chance at the payout. So now instead of running one infinite key or set of keys for a party, we now run an infinite to farm said relics to earn said relics to turn around and run an infinite to open said relics, how is this any more streamlined than void 1.0? Edited October 28, 2016 by Irorone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious_Vipa Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 (edited) what is the point in continuing if the odds for better parts don't increase , but the enemies get tougher and the risk gets higher ? Edited October 28, 2016 by Vicious_Vipa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinKenshin Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 Even if the reward is more traces, there are a lot of people who have every single prime/set. And will only use traces when the new prime comes out. I mean personally, I'm already maxed on traces and have all the stuff from nekros p PA. Why should I need more traces? They're like the easiest thing to farm right now. There's fast cap missions, you don't even have to equip a relic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shlemazel Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 This is more disappointing than anything that has happened with tww. A completly useless change that will not bring back the incentive to do endless missions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMP3 Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 To at least bring the new system back to the same place as the old? I agree with you that there should be greater rewards for staying longer, but I'm just happy that I can get multiple prime parts per mission again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)BrewtleQ Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 Just an idea: it would be interesting to see relics automatically get some refinement as the mission level increases. Or at least be able to refine mid-mission! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galuf Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 (edited) I'm very sceptical About prime things: (3/10) Efforts have been made to making look like that DE adressed some issues while doing nothing. It balances endless from beeing garbage misisons to crack keys to still garbage but slightly less you know.Depending on the scalling, It still may not be as profitable as short mission spam. The P2W factor of ressource booster effect on trace drops remains stable. About new content: (6/10) Except story mission that I'm sure will be great considering the time spent on it and the overall quality of precious ones A new non endless game mod that seems as repetitive as the others without the rewarding effect of dedicated spy squads More Kubrows Kavats Skins: using the dedication of external talented persons, making dolares from no sheer content About balancing and refreshing: (?/10) Looks like nfwg All the things that was right remain right Same for all the bad things apparently Edited October 28, 2016 by Galuf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)SickWicked Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 (edited) Ok... so full disclosure... I like how DE changed the relic system to be one relic one reward. There are a bunch of reasons I have for it. So by extension I like the new endless mode they proposed today... but I do understand where people want to run 1 relic to get many items... this i thought brought about tons of problems.. but another thread for another time.. I however propose something that could be a happy medium... How about after wave 5 there is a high chance to or will always spawn a new enemy type that spawns once during the 5 wave cycle, that has a high chance of dropping the relic of the era that you are running. The longer you run the enemy has a chance to start dropping the same relic types at an already higher refined state.. so after a certain number of waves you start to get radiant relics of the era your running. The enemy is not guaranteed to drop a relic but has a huge high percentage to drop one... so more often than not he will drop a relic, and if you don't you get relic you get a decent sized void trace bundle or a endo bundle... and also has a chance to flee if not killed in battle to add a little flare in the mix. the kicker is you can choose to use the relic that dropped and picked up during the mission. This way you can still have the relic sink that DE wants and I actually agree with for many reasons... but you also simulate the old void a bit and give people a good reason to stay.. and with some luck you might get away with only having to spend a few relics out of you reserves. Edited October 28, 2016 by (XB1)SickWicked a few additions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinKenshin Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 (edited) Hoi Tenno, This isn't a new-ish, I've seen it thrown out in the forums and thought I'd make a thread about it. the issue with endless fissures (or at least my issue) is that you don't really get something new when you stay for longer waves/min. you still need to use relics to get parts, so no more 1 relic=a lot of rewards (I have no issue with that) and from what we know, you'll get more traces which isn't good enough reason to stay, since a lot of us (vets to be specific) don't need them So, what I suggest is this: (numbers and details are subject to balance changes) Every rotation, you get a chance for a free upgrade to the relic you choose. for example, if I choose an Axi G1 relic when I finish 5 waves, I get a chance for this relic to be exceptional (1st upgrade), and so on as the rotations go. rot B will get a chance at both the 1st and 2nd upgrade and rot C will have a 100% chance to get a free upgrade , this can be any of the 3 upgrades, radiant being the most rare basically: 5min mark= a chance for an exceptional relic upgrade 10min mark= a chance for an exceptional relic upgrade 15min mark= a chance for an exceptional/flawless upgrades 20min mark= a chance for an exception/flawless/radiant upgrade That way, if your interest is truly the rewards, if you stay longer, you'd have more chances to get the reward you want Some notes: - If you use a relic that has been already upgraded to ANY lvl, this won't work on it - if you really wanna balance this, this could start from 25min/wave and not 5min/wave - If this is a bit too much for DE (since it's free), you can give us a chance to upgrade the relic using our own traces (aka: not for free) I know this is a bit non-logical since we aren't using the relic panel on our orbiter to upgrade the relics, but I really think this is a good idea for these endless fissures. and if you have any more tweaks to it, please do share them. since there's only so much rewards they can offer for staying longer in endless fissures EDIT: I know there's someone that'll say "just wait for it to actually come and be playable then post feedback" but the concept for this is already clear, and DE themselves are looking for ideas for this Thank You ^^ Edited October 28, 2016 by GinKenshin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viedra_Lavinova Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 A better alternative is allow the relic to release drops/ continue rolling until rotation c. Pick a new relic to cycle to c after one is complete, and infinitely repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xzorn Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 I really don't need much of an excuse to fight lvl 300+ enemies. This game is boring as hell otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Englands Own Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 4 hours ago, Radagosh said: fhat's not the right direction imo it justchallenges again that the devs dont seem to know what u abs veterans want. We want to get multiple rewards from 1 relic/whatever for investing more time and going against harder enemies. We dont want to spend 1 relic every 5 waves to get 1 reward. Especially since the rewards stay at the same dropchance while the enemies get harder to deal with. Why would i waste my time on 40 waves def instead of 8x 5 waves? Gimme a reason to go for the harder variant because players will always do the easier and faster thing if there is no extra reward. A reason to go longer hmm, maybe the player wants to be challenged with his/her multiple formaed weapons/warframes. There Is absolutely no point one shotting everything, where Is the fun or challenge In that?. Other than speed running fissure missions, why would you not want to challenge yourself?.It gets boring pretty quick If you don't challenge yourself.I don't know why would you just want to breeze through a mission all the time?, where's the fun In that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DesecratedFlame Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 1 hour ago, Volinus7 said: I missed old key buffet. Hey can I downgrade to u17?? I wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultramandyna1 Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 3 hours ago, pauli133 said: Freeloading off a single key is gone. Forever. Get used to it. Sad...very very sad isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DesecratedFlame Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 4 hours ago, AuroraSonicBoom said: Good Endless modes shouldn't be superior for void related stuff in any way, that would negate the main point of why the void system was changed in the first place. False. The reason the change happened was because people were tired of only having one place/mission to get items. It had nothing to do with endless mission being made purposely worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irorone Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 (edited) Actually given that a lot of infinite standard missions already drop relics it seems like the easiest medium would be allowing you to auto run relics you just got, problem with that though is it pretty much keeps the risk reward from the game unless you impose the willy wonka bit. I.e. you lose you get nothing good day sir. Still doesn't exactly reward min maxing and the closest thing to skilled play in warframe, but given how many people I see throwing a fit about how void 1.0 was "too rewarding" at this point I don't expect to see much of anybody really happy with the state of things these days. Edited October 28, 2016 by Irorone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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