Valkyr Prime design lore discussion

[AcceI]

6 minutes ago, GX339-4 said:

So what about starting a poll about letting DE change Valkyr Prime's appearance?

I doubt that would get DE to change her appearance.  I'm sure they moved on to the next thing sadly.  Doesn't hurt to try.

[Apoc001]

10 minutes ago, GX339-4 said:

So what about starting a poll about letting DE change Valkyr Prime's appearance?

considering DE won't change older primes such as Excal, Frost, and Mag, DE are not going to change Valkyrs, no matter how much people whine

DE will either rewrite some lore, or expand upon the existing lore

Edited November 23, 2016 by Apoc001

[Drufo]

I agree with the first part, since I arrived at the same conclusions, but not with the last one. I believe (but this is just a speculation) that whatever is inside a warframe is alive, but needs void energy to actually move etc so it needs transference*. With that in mind, Valkyr's story doesn't seem wrong since she is alive and can be traumatized by the experiments

*in TSD we don't know why the frame moved, but IMO the operator shouldn't be able to use transference by himself, since he needed a hard trial to unlock that ability. There's still much we don't know about warframes that it's difficult to come to a conclusion

[GX339-4]

25 minutes ago, Apoc001 said:

considering DE won't change older primes such as Excal, Frost, and Mag, DE are not going to change Valkyrs, no matter how much people whine

DE will either rewrite some lore, or expand upon the existing lore

okay, then just wait DE to say something.

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

1 hour ago, CapAllan said:

One issue. The Corpus didn't really exist until after the fall of the Orokin. Which means, that there was no Alad V and no Grineer either. They used to be part of the Orokin Faction and Alad only came to power long after the fall.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Synthesis

Look under the DETRON CREWMAN entry & tell me if The corpus didnt really exist until after the fall of the orokin.

Grineer & Corpus already existed as servants in the orokin times. Grineer as mine labors, Corpus as scavangers/merchants.

Edited November 23, 2016 by (PS4)ATreidezz

[RunningTree3]

1 hour ago, CapAllan said:

One issue. The Corpus didn't really exist until after the fall of the Orokin. Which means, that there was no Alad V and no Grineer either. They used to be part of the Orokin Faction and Alad only came to power long after the fall.

Valkyr-A, the lone non-prime survivor of the Old War, was placed into cryosleep with all the other warframes. Alad V then dug her up (Vor's Prize style). Will add to edit. :)

[BrazilianJoe]

I think that things can be Primed in the current Era.

Vor found out how to do a mix of Orokin and Grineer technology in his Seer weapon. 

Zanuka is also a mixed bag of technology.

Lotus does not need to scavenge broken warframe parts from battlefield graveyards. The Tenno and warframes are always available to her in non-hostile situations. 

The theory that Valkyr Prime is based off after-Alad V experiments gets much credibility by her looks, but we just don't have an in-lore answer of a definite Yes or No. 

 

[S0ulre4per]

Valkyr Prime only makes sense if she became a Prime AFTER zanuka incident.

Visual aspect - has mix of both gersemi and zanuka valkyr.

Kinda weird but still an important hint.

Valkyrs bvtt.....gersemi has different looking one, while Prime and zanuka has nigh identical.

and as gersemi skin description says, she was before zanuka.

it feels like it was like this. Gersemi, then zanuka, (and until we get a proper lore on valkyr prime) ballas (if he is still alive) fixed and upgraded her.

Those blocks on her arms, yea yea ceremonial thing, gersemi doesnt have them, but zanuka and prime does...........as if those blocks were upgraded too

[(PSN)JSlither]

The prime version resembles the post Corpus Valkyr. It should instead resemble the pre Corpus Valkyr. 

 

I was going to buy the access pack but i just can't do it now. 

 

How could the developers have made such a colossal and obvious mistake?

[Tsunero]

So DE went the easy route again and just gave us a video with a static scenery combined with different camera angles and 0 narration so they don't have to deal with the contradicted lore. So typical xD.

[Yrveth]

4 hours ago, Rhekemi said:

My friend, fashion frame is not about a single skin. It's about using your designer's eye to combine items for a snazzy look.

My main theme for her with that skin was to go dark + the helmet, yeah. Then I made the one above for a contest. (Modeled her on Alura In-Ze for a contest.)

Looks great. Did you win?

Also is this a megathread now? Would be nice to be called that, with all the merging that went into it.

[arch111]

Awesome shot :D

[DoppelShifter]

6 hours ago, Evanescent said:

What? How? What's your basis for saying this?

Yeah, so? Have you seen nekros? He looks like his mask fell off. Tenno recreations are always missing parts of the prime look and designs.

Again, what's you basis for saying this?

As far as I can see and until you go more into detail, you're the one that's not making sense here.

1 - Because it was the skin of the LAUNCH (a.k,a "vanilla" or "normal") Valkyr, mangled by Alad V.
2 - The problem isn't the "Tenno recreation missing parts". It's the opposite: the Prime is missing a lot of parts (namely most of her armor plating, her winglets and her tail).
3 - DE said this on the last devstream. The link is mentioned in this thread.

So... please read the info around before saying that I'm the one not making sense.

[marelooke]

1 hour ago, Momo93 said:

So DE went the easy route again and just gave us a video with a static scenery combined with different camera angles and 0 narration so they don't have to deal with the contradicted lore. So typical xD.

Yeah, the monetization is rather too blatantly obvious. I can hardly begrudge them for wanting to make money, but the way in which has since TWW been less than exemplar.

[DoppelShifter]

1 hour ago, Momo93 said:

So DE went the easy route again and just gave us a video with a static scenery combined with different camera angles and 0 narration so they don't have to deal with the contradicted lore. So typical xD.

 

8 minutes ago, marelooke said:

Yeah, the monetization is rather too blatantly obvious. I can hardly begrudge them for wanting to make money, but the way in which has since TWW been less than exemplar.

To be fair, that was just the Teaser video (which usually is released BEFORE the Prime is open to public, but...). A lot of people are expecting an actual Trailer for Valkyr Prime, with narration and all that stuff.

That said, we still need to get a Codex entry for Valkyr Prime, so that one might also have some more lore snippets. And since DE mentioned in the Devstream that they would address the lore issues with Valkyr Prime...

Well. Let's wait and see. For now.

[marelooke]

6 minutes ago, DoppelShifter said:

 

To be fair, that was just the Teaser video (which usually is released BEFORE the Prime is open to public, but...). A lot of people are expecting an actual Trailer for Valkyr Prime, with narration and all that stuff.

That said, we still need to get a Codex entry for Valkyr Prime, so that one might also have some more lore snippets. And since DE mentioned in the Devstream that they would address the lore issues with Valkyr Prime...

Well. Let's wait and see. For now.

The teasers usually didn't show the actual frame, just little bits and are totally redundant now that they did away with the "hype-week" between two Primes. The actual trailer was released together with the Prime. So unless it was confirmed to be a teaser (which would be weird, with the Prime already being out) I'm going to stick to it being a lazy trailer sidestepping self-inflicted lore issues. They could of course try to "fix" things by releasing another trailer...

And yeah, I didn't watch the devstream since I heard they didn't address any of the fundamental issues I have with the new mods. If they talked about Valkyr I should probably set aside an hour to catch up though.

Edited November 23, 2016 by marelooke

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

So the "arm block" things are extra. Nice. Can say shez perfect now. my x23!

[DoppelShifter]

3 minutes ago, marelooke said:

And yeah, I didn't watch the devstream since I heard they didn't address any of the fundamental issues I have with the new mods. If they talked about Valkyr I should probably set aside an hour to catch up though.

Here it is, in the very moment they talk about Valkyr:

https://youtu.be/mPPcQle4ud4?t=2856

Just so you don't have to dig 40min of devstream to find the 20 seconds where they acknowledge Valkyr Prime's lore issues.

[Evanescent]

1 hour ago, DoppelShifter said:

1 - Because it was the skin of the LAUNCH (a.k,a "vanilla" or "normal") Valkyr, mangled by Alad V.
2 - The problem isn't the "Tenno recreation missing parts". It's the opposite: the Prime is missing a lot of parts (namely most of her armor plating, her winglets and her tail).
3 - DE said this on the last devstream. The link is mentioned in this thread.

So... please read the info around before saying that I'm the one not making sense.

1) Oh for F-

Are you seriously mixing irl with lore? In lore valkyr prime came first. IRL order DOES NOT MATTER.

2)The Prime also has parts not present in the Gersemi skin. Thing is, if you don't know what the real thing exactly looks like, you improvise, and that means sometimes you add things that weren't there at first. Nekros has a whole stomach, Nekros Prime has his split open.

3)This kind of is because of the 'deluxe skin' treatment. It couldn't just be a 'healed valkyr' or people wouldn't buy it, so they amped it up somewhat just like how palatine is more intricate than Rhino prime.  If they just made it a primed gersemi people would call it a cop out and rightfully so-it would be a huge middle finger to people who bought the skin if others could just make the prime and get a better version for free.

What is the problem if valkyr prime is based on the 'mangled' valkyr? Alad V dissected her-what we see is her stripped of her ornaments and decorations. It makes sense that the prime valkyr just adds back those things.

I do read them, trust me.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

1 hour ago, Evanescent said:

 

maybe this explains it

Spoiler

Spoiler

reflecting that the shown image^ all 3 are very similar in body design from the front [as it should be]

on the prime, these gauntlets and stubs are control systems /limiter crafted by the orokin, these are refined attachments blend with the frame, its the original orokin collar so to speak to help them , control her 

now lets look at this thoughtfully

the valkyr we have is a stripped/skinned version implanted with corpus restraints. what if the corpus had a valkyr prime blueprint and were trying [like everything they do] to reverse engineer [orokin tech] to create a valkyr back to that standard , a controllable warframe perhaps, like mesa and alad v? 

another thought what if the orokin derived a economy model [germesi valkyr] and decided that due to as we understand it all frames currently are mass made variants created to be fodder for the war and derived from a single version prime, what if the pelt was later added to the mass made variants, this could be due to sensitive to pain or that it required the tail and extra  muscle layers to balance when running and attacking (what a cats tail actually does) or its just a cheaper method to create a armored frame, unlike the prime, which was crafted to have more armor with less bulk

now lets say that valkyr prime is not in fully an original form but its outfitted in blueprints to be constrained purposefully so orokin could , well control/contain her

also reflecting that the trailer shows her fighting corpus , possibly they had an encounter with one and sought to recreate it or find out how she worked?

possibly valkyr is the reason the null tech exists? 

Helm

reflect that the gersemi helm and v prime helm are similar .. how you may be wondering ?

look at the helm shape, both germesi and prime had a central part that has 4 branches coming off , gersemi is more aerodynamic, primes is more flared out 

so does the primes, but unlike gersemi the face is not covered, this could be due to it being an orokin made armor/tech, rather then industrial crated armor,

in the economy they bulked it up, and had close stats , the prime was streamlined and had the advantage of orokin technology 

The Tail/stub

 let me explain

 she does have a spike stub and I think can make a reasoning for such

Spoiler

what if as a cat themed warframe, she was derived like a lynx ?

cat tails normally serve a purpose , like climbing [balance] , cheetah running[steering] ..ect 

as a raw prime, she didnt require the long tail as she was more focused on being thrown into combat, not really using it for balance or climbing , that came around in the gersemi model.

conclusion

so unlike other vanillas , the valkyr[gersemi] was actually a little more redesigned then its prime counterpart to be more efficient and cheaper to produce, while also not hampering her ability to do combat .and made to more aerodynamic , possibly to reduce drag on the added bulk locations and a tail for balance 

 

 

 

Edited November 23, 2016 by (XB1)EternalDrk Mako

[DoppelShifter]

2 hours ago, Evanescent said:

I do read them, trust me.

It doesn't seem so, otherwise you would realize that:

- Gersemi was canonly confirmed to be the complete version of the "Mangled Valkyr", being an "embellished skin" or not. So anything ignoring that should have a clear lore reason in order to avoid inconsistencies. And as of now, it doesn't.
- Most of the suggestions for a Gersemi Prime extra skin (which by the way the devs indeed thought about, but in the end decided against -- DE_Steve tweeted about it) also agree that they wouldn't mind if the skin was sold, not given for free. After all, modelling a whole new body isn't free, so why should the item be?


And most of all, we are waiting for an answer from DE, since they mentioned in the Devstream that they were working on Valkyr Prime's lore, and that they knew the lore traphole that they were getting themselves into. There's still the Codex and maybe a narrated trailer incoming, and also lots of summons for Megan or Rebecca to jump in and calm people down.

Let's wait, for now.

 

[arch111]

One thing worth mentioning is that if Alad did indeed try to "Prime" a Gersemi,  that would potentially open up for all warframes to be Primed.

And since Gersemi is a Deluxe-skin - suddenly a Primed Rhino Paladin is a thing. Or why not Loki Knave?

This reasoning is hard to argue against given the current situation.

You know what this means? Tennogen for Deluxe Warframes. Alternately DE do these skins themselves as a separate Prime Series.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

Just now, arch111 said:

One thing worth mentioning is that if Alad did indeed try to "Prime" a Gersemi,  that would potentially open up for all warframes to be Primed.

And since Gersemi is a Deluxe-skin - suddenly a Primed Rhino Paladin is a thing. Or why not Loki Knave?

This reasoning is hard to argue against given the current situation.

You know what this means? Tennogen for Deluxe Warframes. Alternately DE do these skins themselves as a separate Prime Series.

what if vanilla to prime conversion is possible, and this is what creates / leads to something like umbra? 

[arch111]

9 minutes ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

what if vanilla to prime conversion is possible, and this is what creates / leads to something like umbra? 

You mean a twisted prime ? Now that is worth thinking about.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

Just now, arch111 said:

You mean a twisted prime ? Now that is worth thinking about.

kinda a artificial vanilla development to a prime equivalent