Valkyr Prime design lore discussion

[Stoner]

2 hours ago, Mak_Gohae said:

They said that they are making the vid but people already left for vacation so it's going to take longer. And it involves a corpus tileset. Which makes me afraid.

Do you know when exactly they said it in the devstream? 

Nevermind, I got it. Valky p trailer for 2017. Sadly. 

Edited December 9, 2016 by Stoner74

[TARINunit9]

3 minutes ago, Stoner74 said:

I don't see where you see more Gersemi than og. Legs identical? Please compare both models.

20 minutes ago, Apoc001 said:

you may want to look again......harder..

The idea that the prime legs are based off the post-Corpus legs is just laughable, Apoc. You're telling ME that I need to look closer?

[Apoc001]

1 minute ago, TARINunit9 said:

You're telling ME that I need to look closer?

yes, and apparently, you REALLY need to look harder

[Stoner]

4 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

The idea that the prime legs are based off the post-Corpus legs is just laughable, Apoc. You're telling ME that I need to look closer?

Yes, and it's exactly what it is. They took Valkyr's original model and slapped some Gersemi parts over it. 

[TARINunit9]

7 minutes ago, Apoc001 said:

yes, and apparently, you REALLY need to look harder

Even adding in the points for the shins, I still have to give the leg category to Gersemi

3 minutes ago, Stoner74 said:

Yes, and it's exactly what it is. They took Valkyr's original model and slapped some Gersemi parts over it. 

Alright that I can sorta kinda agree with

Edited December 9, 2016 by TARINunit9

[DoppelShifter]

For the folks flipping their [-clemmed-] because of the Corpus Tileset thing...

...Remember that the Vauban narrated trailer was also in a Corpus tileset, against modern Corpus units. So everything is still open unti the video arrives.

Sadly, said video is only half-made, and like some people said, part of the staff is on vacation, so it'll probably only be completed in January.

[Mak_Gohae]

3 hours ago, DoppelShifter said:

For the folks flipping their [-clemmed-] because of the Corpus Tileset thing...

...Remember that the Vauban narrated trailer was also in a Corpus tileset, against modern Corpus units. So everything is still open unti the video arrives.

The point is that the tileset was tied to the story that was being narrated. So that means that there's a chance that the video isnt just going to be about Valk beating on Corpus as a show.

[Chroia]

If I look at it purely as a 'Valkyr, but Primed', sure, it works.
She has the typical Prime knees, the 2-toe feet, a Vauben Prime-esque spiky collar, gilding, heck, she's got a golden butt-dagger.

But.
Valkyr looks like she looks because she underwent extensive Corpus invasive exploration.
The thing behind her head is a restraint, as are the pads bolted on to her forearms.
Half her helmet's removed, again, so they could explore.
Sent a shiver down my spine when I realised that what I'm seeing on her back was the outer 'skin' peeled back so they could look at her spine.

You can't just drop a coat of Prime-paint on that and call it a day.
Unless whoever's doing the worldbuilding has decided that Prime frames are actually Primed frames (which flies in the face of everything thusfar established, not the least of which her own Prime Access blurb: " A proud fighter emerges unscarred by time or malice. ")

Her Corpus arm-restraints? Now Orokinized.
Now, I get this - to a point. Like the Gersemi skin, her ebbows need certain dimensions relative to the skeleton so that her arm attachments attach rather than floating.

Her helmet? Intact, elaborate, but doesn't match the half we see on vanilla Valkyr. Not in size, shape or texture.

Her flayed torso is now a vest. Well, alright.
But why the everloving carp does she have an Orokinized... which Zerg unit was it? a Drone? attached to her back?
The whole thing was 'look what the Corpus did to her.  Look what she underwent and emerged from - scarred but unbroken.'
But instead of 'unflaying' her back, you add some skeleton, some Prime paint, and that's that.
I can't even put the GAH into words.

 

tl;dr - purely aesthetically, Valkyr Prime looks nice.
Problem is, aesthetics are only part of what makes a character (for instance, their idles also express their character), and her aesthetics clash with the rest of her.

Do I expect Valkyr Prime's model to change, at this point? No.
But please, if possible, don't do this again.

Edited December 12, 2016 by Chroia

[GX339-4]

51 minutes ago, Chroia said:

If I look at it purely as a 'Valkyr, but Primed', sure, it works.
She has the typical Prime knees, the 2-toe feet, a Vauben Prime-esque spiky collar, gilding, heck, she's got a golden butt-dagger.

But.
Valkyr looks like she looks because she underwent extensive Corpus invasive exploration.
The thing behind her head is a restraint, as are the pads bolted on to her forearms.
Half her helmet's removed, again, so they could explore.
Sent a shiver down my spine when I realised that what I'm seeing on her back was the outer 'skin' peeled back so they could look at her spine.

You can't just drop a coat of Prime-paint on that and call it a day.
Unless whoever's doing the worldbuilding has decided that Prime frames are actually Primedd frames (which flies in the face of everything thusfar established, not the least of which her own Prime Access blurb: " A proud fighter emerges unscarred by time or malice. "

Her Corpus arm-restraints? Now Orokinized.
Now, I get this to a point. Like the Gersemi skin, her arms need certain dimentions relative to the skeleton so that her arm attachments attach rather than floating.

Her helmet? Intact, elaborate, but doesn't match the half we see on vanilla Valkyr. Not in size, shape or texture.

Her flayed torso is now a vest. Well, alright.
But why the everloving carp does she have an Orokinized... which Zerg unit was it? a Drone? attached to her back?
The whole thing was 'look what the Corpus did to her.  Look what she underwent and emerged from - scarred but unbroken.'
But instead of 'unflaying' her back, you add some skeleton, some Prime paint, and that's that.
I can't even put the GAH into words.

 

tl;dr - purely aesthetically, Valkyr Prime looks nice.
Problem is, aesthetics are only part of what makes a character (for instance, their idles also express their character), and her aesthetics clash with the rest of her.

Do I expect Valkyr Prime's model to change, at this point? No.
But please, if possible, don't do this again.

This.

[Stoner]

4 hours ago, Chroia said:

-snip-

I couldn't agree more. 

$$$ in the end destroyed all my hopes for an amazing Valkyr prime concept I've been waiting for a long time. Buuuut.. they decided to rush her prime and go with the usual cash grab. Exactly like Nova prime when Banshee was supposed to be primed instead. 

I certainly hope for a model change, maybe it will never happen, maybe Valkyr prime will be the first prime being changed after the release. We don't know. 

Also a good thing we have raids, it's literally the only reason why I play warframe now. 

[ViralKuma]

5 hours ago, Chroia said:

If I look at it purely as a 'Valkyr, but Primed', sure, it works.
She has the typical Prime knees, the 2-toe feet, a Vauben Prime-esque spiky collar, gilding, heck, she's got a golden butt-dagger.

But.
Valkyr looks like she looks because she underwent extensive Corpus invasive exploration.
The thing behind her head is a restraint, as are the pads bolted on to her forearms.
Half her helmet's removed, again, so they could explore.
Sent a shiver down my spine when I realised that what I'm seeing on her back was the outer 'skin' peeled back so they could look at her spine.

You can't just drop a coat of Prime-paint on that and call it a day.
Unless whoever's doing the worldbuilding has decided that Prime frames are actually Primed frames (which flies in the face of everything thusfar established, not the least of which her own Prime Access blurb: " A proud fighter emerges unscarred by time or malice. ")

Her Corpus arm-restraints? Now Orokinized.
Now, I get this - to a point. Like the Gersemi skin, her ebbows need certain dimensions relative to the skeleton so that her arm attachments attach rather than floating.

Her helmet? Intact, elaborate, but doesn't match the half we see on vanilla Valkyr. Not in size, shape or texture.

Her flayed torso is now a vest. Well, alright.
But why the everloving carp does she have an Orokinized... which Zerg unit was it? a Drone? attached to her back?
The whole thing was 'look what the Corpus did to her.  Look what she underwent and emerged from - scarred but unbroken.'
But instead of 'unflaying' her back, you add some skeleton, some Prime paint, and that's that.
I can't even put the GAH into words.

 

tl;dr - purely aesthetically, Valkyr Prime looks nice.
Problem is, aesthetics are only part of what makes a character (for instance, their idles also express their character), and her aesthetics clash with the rest of her.

Do I expect Valkyr Prime's model to change, at this point? No.
But please, if possible, don't do this again.

These are exactly my thoughts. Looking at Valkyr Prime standalone, yeah she's fine. In fact I like the design. But doing what DE did simply betrayed the lore, and ruined the thoughts of what an actual Valkyr Prime could be. Tbh, the Gersemi skin started bothering me after a while, so I stopped using it. I had hopes that I could see a "true" Valkyr, unblemished by the Corpus, but DE decided to just add a bit of Prime skin and not make a true original. It's sad, really.

 

I'd be happy if they actually decide to remake her model. It'd be nice to see that they could follow the lore more. To be clear, I've been trying to justify their model ever since release. I decided that I really can't. It looks nice, yeah, but that's pretty much the end of what I like about the Prime.

[RoboticApplesWithLasers]

Maybe the corpus were attempting a restoration and emulating the prime when they were experimenting on gersemi?

 

Also primes are maid with orokin tech, not necessarily the "original" 

Look at boar and nova.

[Chroia]

Imagine that, for example,
* Nef Anyo's reskin had an Orokin aesthetic, Lephantis had a Grineer-Kuva aesthetic, Teshin had a Corpus aesthetic, the Operator had Infested bits,
* No other change was made to the characters and characterizations,
* and absolutely no one seemed to notice.

That's Valkyr Primed.

[Sorenxoras]

Am i the only one that think the Prime bonds don't look like bonds at all? They have knives at the end, if anything i would imagine that they're her 'rip line' ability and the things on her arms are the casing for them. It may be far fetched, but it makes sense to me.

[AcceI]

Is that coverup video for the valkyr f-up out yet?

Have a feeling that might ignite the forums again.

[MesaPrime]

I'm glad I'm not the only person that was very mad about this.

[Stoner]

2 minutes ago, AcceI said:

Is that coverup video for the valkyr f-up out yet?

Have a feeling that might ignite the forums again.

They did say January... Maybe end January, maybe [DE]layed as always. We'll get more info friday i suppose.

[AcceI]

1 minute ago, Stoner74 said:

They did say January... Maybe end January, maybe [DE]layed as always. We'll get more info friday i suppose.

Its gonna be FEB.  Im betting on Feb if they said JAN.

Be weird if they came out with the video in MAR when the next prime is due for release.

Edited January 5, 2017 by AcceI

[Stoner]

1 minute ago, AcceI said:

Its gonna be FEB.  Im betting on Feb if they said JAN.

Or inb4 not releasing at all because trailer didn't make any sense. 

[Deshiel]

I wouldn't worry so much. 

As somebody suggested. Several warframes have canonical cousins like the Palatine Rhino. Garsemi is supposedly meant to represent how regular valkyrs looked like pre Salad.

Umbra series will also introduce new variations to existing warframes.

What I am trying to say is. Valkyr Prime might be based on some other type of Valkyr, not currently known since canonicaly it should be Garsemi to Prime, but they skiped her.

Why? I can't say. Not in the mood to throw canonical excuses at you to explain the whims of the Dev team. :D

 

[Cappucchino]

For me I think DE try to explain like this...

-> Valkyr Prime is already the fighter/berserker.

-> Gersemi is the original Valkyr designed from Valkyr Prime

-> Gersemi got captured by Alad V and experimented on, improving her abilities (suppose that Gersemi version abilities are weaker than Valkyr)

-> Corpus version Valkyr, even more berserk and deadlier abilities than Gersemi.

 

This make sense... but still need more linkage to all 3 lores together.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Cappucchino

[Schregger]

All this is probably moot, as Valkyr Prime is already released, and I cant see DE actually remodeling her. Its a shame, because I was one of the people that viewed the Gersemi as the "true" Valkyr, and hoped that the prime would reflect that.

 

[Stoner]

48 minutes ago, Cappucchino said:

For me I think DE try to explain like this...

-> Valkyr Prime is already the fighter/berserker.

-> Gersemi is the original Valkyr designed from Valkyr Prime

-> Gersemi got captured by Alad V and experimented on, improving her abilities (suppose that Gersemi version abilities are weaker than Valkyr)

-> Corpus version Valkyr, even more berserk and deadlier abilities than Gersemi.

 

This make sense... but still need more linkage to all 3 lores together.

It would make sense... ... If the prime didn't have corpus restraints seen on the first released model, which currently does. 

[FireSegment]

I have an entirely different theory, which depend heavily on the Moon tileset mechanic of time travel.  So, my theory is as follow:

1. In the recent day, a corpse (or information, but corpse more likely) of a Corpus-modified Valkyr got back into the Void era the same way we tenno go back in time to extract information in moon spy vault.
2. An Orokin era personnel bump into the corpse, think of it as holy, as “a gift from the future”. So they design a frame base on the corpse design. They remove the part that they think ugly and add the holy orokin gold to it. The collar became a golden halo, the tubes became sugatra-like decoration. And they named her Valkyr. Thus, Valkyr Prime was design after the corpus one.
3. After the golden age of orokin era, the creator of Titania in the The Groove quest (I forgot her name) re-design a lot of already exist frame with earth natural theme, from her we have Deluxe Loki, Saryn, Oberon, … and of course, Gersemi Valkyr. The Gersemi Valkyr now no longer have torture-like characteristic as it follow the natural design of earth.
4. Back to the current day, The frame that Alad V experiment on and ultimately became Corpus Valkyr wasn’t a prime one nor a gersemi one. This is the cornerstone of this theory.  That soon-to-be valkyr frame, is infact an empty, kind of prototype frame that do not have any ability (think of the chroma in New strange quest), and only gain both ability and sentient through suffering under Alad’s hand. This is why Corpus Valkyr is ferocious, rage, and pure. This very reason, is why the orokin was fond of her, because suffering was a main theme of their cultural (think of mag prime helm, she’s gaged).

So, this theory would easily solve 2 most irritating question of “why valkyr skills only make sense in  corpus version, yet all valkyr have same set of skill?“ And “why valkyr prime look like corpus one instead of gersemi one”. The answer for both question would be because Corpus valkyr is the origin valkyr, Orokin copy the Corpus (without their knowledge), then Titania’s creator copy Orokin.

Ok .. now this is a pretty far-fletch theory that need us to believe, or come into conclusion on 3 points that are yet-to-be-confirm and enter guessing territory. Fortunately, we do have some merit and proof on each of these point throughout the game:

-          There exist some form of an empty/prototype frame: Think of why stalker/shadow stalker can use the skills of every other frame (or in fact, even more interesting, only a subset of frames). His skills are able to be upgraded by Hunhow. Stalker’s frame should have some kind of this characteristic for this to be possible

-          The frames are alive: From the last scene in Second dream quest to the Helminth reference different to frame and operator (ops, spoiler?) it’s almost certain to say frames have (or able to have) some kind of sentient by itself. So this wont be as far fletch as the next point.

-          Some frame was designed, but some frame are able to gain abilities by itself: We enter the guessing teratory here, but there still plenty of evidences.  Rhino prime lore describe briefly what I assume as an awaken of a frame instead of an operator behind it. Mirage and Limbo seem to be designed after another human being, but Inaros seem to developed the ability by itself before being discovered by tennoes. And heck … who the hell would design Nidus. This also explain that stalker can only use some certain frame ability that was designed, but not those that are developed by a frame by it awakening (I believe we wont see stalker use Sand Storm or Hysteria any time soon xD). Again, this is the far fletch part, but it fit into the whole theory beautifully that it’s hard for me to think otherwise         

-          (oh, and 4th point, time travel as a plot device I guess :3 )

So, that’s my theory, it’s still have holes in there but tell me what u think. Do you agree with it or if u find any bit of lore that contradict with this theory (or if you already see a similar theory like this before).

TL;DR  

My theory is that Corpus Valkyr is the original and the first of all valkyr version. The Orokin design Valkyr Prime base on a Corpus Valkyr corpse pass through the time fluctuation similar to those in Spy vault in Moon Tileset, Gersemi was design after Valkyr prime. However, the origin corpus Valkyr is an empty frame that awaken the power on it own instead of being modified after a Gersemi or Prime variant.

Edited January 5, 2017 by FireSegment

[SilvaDreams]

Or....

The Gersam is the mass produced model like our other frames that Alad V managed to capture, we just copied the build as it stood since we didn't have a complete blueprint 

And then we have the Prime version, which was the pinical.