Almagnus1 Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Archwing, while it has great potential to be an awesome game mode, suffers from several fatal flaws in it's execution. Here's a couple of quality of life improvements that would help fix that: Archwings should autoloot - Give us an automatic, high powered, loot vacuum so we can focus more on combat, and less on trying to find mods in a 3D space that's ambiguous (at best) to navigate. Remove the destructible containers - Half the time I see them on the minimap, then spend about five minutes trying to figure out what I'm supposed to be looking for while trying to figure out where this is supposed to be. Better solution is to increase the mob drops and completely remove these containers from archwing. Have Archwing mods drop from ground enemies on Uranus - Part of the reason why people dislike archwing is that you have to grind about five missions a lot in order to get the mods to function on an archwing. Unlike the rest of the ground missions which have planets dedicated to them, archwing needs more missions to break up the monotony, and Uranus makes for an ideal location because many of the missions use the aquawing. Having the ground troops drop the archwing mods would help us get the mods to better enjoy the game mode, so we've got more pieces to play with, rather than having to grind out the same low level missions because we're so underpowered that higher level archwing missions hand us our butts. While not as easy of a fix as the above, my primary complaint with archwing is while I know where something is in my lateral plane, I have no idea what the height offset from that plane is, which means I have to sit and scan for a bit instead of just quickly getting to the target. My inability to move quickly, combined with a complete inability to accurately find targets means that my best strategy for deal with targets is to find a group of enemies, then start spamming E while moving the mouse and hoping that everything gets wiped out. I really need something like position and heading indicators, and a spherical radar so I know where I am in the battle field, which way's up, and how i'm positioned to other things. I also need a way to pull out the camera, because the spastic fast paced melee is causing me to lose where I am related to everything else because I must get my bearings after executing a couple of chained melee attacks - mostly because there's no easily identified landmarks in most of the archwing positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)T0katax Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 More important: Give aus a rotating map Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extroah Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 I agree on most of it. Autoloot or moer range on the innate vaccuum would surely fix some headaches for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polarity Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 While sprinting: Space = move up Ctrl = move down Ctrl + Space = afterburners until both Ctrl + Space have been released (so you can still move up and down while using afterburners, by releasing just one) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobWasHere Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 We need rotating keys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdunSaveMe Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 3 minutes ago, RobWasHere said: We need rotating keys. We need the old movement system back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MystMan Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 7 minutes ago, RobWasHere said: We need rotating keys. They were added in the last major update. You have to assign them, they are blank by default. Check under Archwing Controls in Customize Key Bindings options. Roll left / roll right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinKenshin Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 6 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said: We need the old movement system back. We need people to not whine and actually try to get gud ;D and how how can you explain AW mods dropping from land enemies? These are perfectly fine, what's so wrong in farming them? You don't see people complain about farming starter mods. They should at least drop from sharkwing enemies and the health mod should be freaking common, not uncommon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdunSaveMe Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, GinKenshin said: We need people to not whine and actually try to get gud ;D Right, because all the complaints about the new movement system are entirely because people lack skill and not for any other reason. You got us. Break out the cuffs, we've been caught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YUNoJump Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 6 minutes ago, GinKenshin said: We need people to not whine and actually try to get gud ;D and how how can you explain AW mods dropping from land enemies? These are perfectly fine, what's so wrong in farming them? You don't see people complain about farming starter mods. They should at least drop from sharkwing enemies and the health mod should be freaking common, not uncommon People don't complain about farming starter mods because they spend quite a while going through areas that are low enough level to allow for zero-mod builds. Archwing doesn't have enough missions for that area to exist, you'll be able to unlock the harder archwing nodes way before you get enough mods for a build, forcing you to farm low level stuff extensively. Farming stuff that's not challenging at all because of base difficulty is really boring, ESPECIALLY non-endless missions like most of AW. Explanation for AW mods dropping from enemies? why do we need one? we have heavily armoured rocket launcher specialists dropping mods that teach you how to fight with a sword, we have an angry flame-wielding general dropping scythe instruction manuals, we have a resurrected captain with an energy vortex where his belly should be dropping poison mods, we have soldiers whose minds have been eroded and corrupted by an ancient AI dropping mods that let a small flying jug perform alchemy on bullets. Mods don't need explanations for why they are on a certain enemy, outside of pure utility and progression. And if you want a real lore reason, then how about the fact that we can see scuba suits on the walls in the Sealab tileset, implying that normal soldiers put on scuba gear and go diving when the need arises. The next step is to say that because AWs can be used underwater then there must be some compatibility overlap in the mods, so then it makes sense that enemies would have AW mods as well. There you have it, folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinKenshin Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 6 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said: Right, because all the complaints about the new movement system are entirely because people lack skill and not for any other reason. You got us. Break out the cuffs, we've been caught. Ahhh, more if your sarcasm :p So what you're saying is that all the people kept testing out AW for a whole month and they all made text walls about why it's bad and needed reverting right? What I remember is a lot of "AW sucks, pls get it back" and "AW is now worst" and all of that whinny crap Yes, it's the players fault they suck, since me and a lot of other play it perfect fine. They just played it for like 10 min and judged it too soon AW isn't for everyone, people need to get that. If you suck and don't wanna try, then get someone to help you and stfu ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdunSaveMe Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Just now, GinKenshin said: Ahhh, more if your sarcasm :p So what you're saying is that all the people kept testing out AW for a whole month and they all made text walls about why it's bad and needed reverting right? What I remember is a lot of "AW sucks, pls get it back" and "AW is now worst" and all of that whinny crap That's because you don't read any of the arguments, of which there are many, and continually fail to present your own. Just now, GinKenshin said: Yes, it's the players fault they suck, since me and a lot of other play it perfect fine. They just played it for like 10 min and judged it too soon "I like it, so anyone who doesn't is bad" Debate of the century right here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YUNoJump Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 17 minutes ago, GinKenshin said: Yes, it's the players fault they suck, since me and a lot of other play it perfect fine. They just played it for like 10 min and judged it too soon AW isn't for everyone, people need to get that. If you suck and don't wanna try, then get someone to help you and stfu ;D Saying that something isn't bad because you like it is a flawed argument. Everything in existence has people that like it, what's important is HOW MANY people like it. If only a small number of people, less than the majority, like AW, then there is a problem. To add examples, we recently had the Vacuum Within and, to a lesser degree, Relics. A lot of people didn't like either of the new systems for various reasons, but others defended them. However, the devs changed it to suit the majority, and to some degree even tried to appease both audiences. AW should undergo the same procedure. You could say that AW isn't for everyone, except that the game places AW in various mandatory instances that aren't fully AW activity. Want Limbo? AW. Limbo has nothing to do with AW gameplay, but you need AW to get him. Want to finish Uranus? AW. TWW? AW. The list goes on. You need to play AW if you want to experience the base game to the maximum. You can say that Conclave isn't for everyone because it never intrudes on the base game, that is not the case with AW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunarEdge7 Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 24 minutes ago, GinKenshin said: Ahhh, more if your sarcasm :p Please back down. It's embarrassing. Although I have no problems with AW, other players have the right to state their inconvenience. I don't think the current AW requires one to even have much skill, maybe save for the JV raid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almagnus1 Posted November 21, 2016 Author Share Posted November 21, 2016 6 minutes ago, YUNoJump said: You could say that AW isn't for everyone, except that the game places AW in various mandatory instances that aren't fully AW activity. Want Limbo? AW. Limbo has nothing to do with AW gameplay, but you need AW to get him. Want to finish Uranus? AW. TWW? AW. The list goes on. You need to play AW if you want to experience the base game to the maximum. You can say that Conclave isn't for everyone because it never intrudes on the base game, that is not the case with AW. That's also why I picked Uranus as a special case for land mobs dropping Archwing mods, as that's the only celestial body that makes sense to have the archwing land drops on, as that would allow us to rapidly boot the archwing missions so when we try to do something like the Jodas Precept and have the game unexpected shift into AW, we can actually do damage to the boss. Really, archwing needs to have a complete low level celestial object dedicated to it with an endless mission. Perhaps something in the Asteroid Belt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanicPrime Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 How to make archwing better: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YUNoJump Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 1 minute ago, Almagnus1 said: That's also why I picked Uranus as a special case for land mobs dropping Archwing mods, as that's the only celestial body that makes sense to have the archwing land drops on, as that would allow us to rapidly boot the archwing missions so when we try to do something like the Jodas Precept and have the game unexpected shift into AW, we can actually do damage to the boss. Really, archwing needs to have a complete low level celestial object dedicated to it with an endless mission. Perhaps something in the Asteroid Belt? Actually something in the Asteroid Belt would be pretty cool, It's a pretty big part of the solar system that hasn't really been touched on in the game yet, especially considering how the Grineer love to mine asteroids. Maybe open space with a lot of little asteroids as obstacles/cover, and then some big asteroids to trench-run through holes in? In any case it's definitely a good idea as an early-game AW location, couldn't agree more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostlightX Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 (edited) 7 minutes ago, ChasePanic said: How to make archwing better: Couldn't agree more. Some other game called, it wants its (badly designed and poorly implemented) space shooting section back. DE knows fine well that everyone hates Archwing They even troll it themselves in some of their hotfix red text (e.g the one at Halloween). No idea why they don't just remove it, or at the very least make it so that players who do not like it never have to experience it if they do not want to. Right now it is interweaved in many quests, planets and gateways and you cannot avoid it. Edited November 21, 2016 by GhostlightX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnViande Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 56 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said: We need the old movement system back. I know this might be a lost cause, but really, that's the priority for Archwing. I used to like Archwing. I wouldn't play it for hours, but I enjoyed it from time to time. There were always many complaints on the forums about this mode, but it was more about the fact that it added grind in a grinding game and stuff like that. The movement itself was fluid and really pleasant, and now it feels like a badly designed Playstation 1 game, when game designers discovered 3d environments and experimented with it. This is just awful, and I hate it. I did the War Within quest and didn't mind about the AW part because it was short and easy, but playing AW missions willingly is now out the f###### question as long as this horrendous movement system does not get fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almagnus1 Posted November 21, 2016 Author Share Posted November 21, 2016 (edited) 4 minutes ago, YUNoJump said: Actually something in the Asteroid Belt would be pretty cool, It's a pretty big part of the solar system that hasn't really been touched on in the game yet, especially considering how the Grineer love to mine asteroids. Maybe open space with a lot of little asteroids as obstacles/cover, and then some big asteroids to trench-run through holes in? In any case it's definitely a good idea as an early-game AW location, couldn't agree more. The only other location that makes sense is in the Kuiper Belt ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuiper_belt ), and maybe something in the Void. As cool as it would be to be in Saturn's rings, that's not going to work because the particles in the rings are moving fast enough that they're actually closer to a natural disc grinder than an asteroid belt. IE: Not what we saw in Macross/RoboTech. Edited November 21, 2016 by Almagnus1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enno69 Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 I like the OP's ideas. Reducing the grind on weaps and suits was a step in the right direction.Three things could imo make AW better : - More missions, more varied. Right now there are even less AW nodes that there are planets, Uranus' sea levels not counted. Defense, Rush and Pursuit were terrible modes, the system need something else, perhaps an AW-specific type of mission that fully exploits the flying mechanics - A better UI : heading indicators, rotating minimap etc... - Much better handling. It's just so unprecise, so wobbly. The infiltration sequence in War Within was a nightmare for me because of that. Make AW much more reactive to input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeruge Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Its actually pretty fun to play archwing missions like defence,mobile defence and interception in my opinion.. The other types i dont really like cause of the tileset makes it somewhat difficult and repenting to play. Also i like the grinding for mods part especially with itzal 3rd but then again maybe im a crazy guy who likes the grind :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaotea Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 1 hour ago, Extroah said: I agree on most of it. Autoloot or moer range on the innate vaccuum would surely fix some headaches for me. Same. I think archwing mods from archwing enemies is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaotea Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 14 minutes ago, GhostlightX said: Couldn't agree more. Some other game called, it wants its (badly designed and poorly implemented) space shooting section back. DE knows fine well that everyone hates Archwing They even troll it themselves in some of their hotfix red text (e.g the one at Halloween). No idea why they don't just remove it, or at the very least make it so that players who do not like it never have to experience it if they do not want to. Right now it is interweaved in many quests, planets and gateways and you cannot avoid it. TBH, i like the archwing mode, but the rewards you get for it never seem worth the time you put into it. Archwing will be good if they integrate it into normal missions with the new transition from TWW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DesecratedFlame Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 3 hours ago, ChasePanic said: How to make archwing better: QFT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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