Grind in order to Grind

[MystMan]

One thing I don't see mentioned is trading relics between players.  If you have a lot of relics which contain a hot prime item many people want, use that to trade for the relics you want.

Back during Void Key days, I had a LOT of T3Ext keys from my Spy runs (T3E had a Vauban Prime part in its drop table) but I was running out of T2Cap keys, which I needed.

I typed "WTT T3E for T2Cap keys" in trade chat and got instantly bombarded by pm messages.

And that's how I replenished my T2Cap keys without doing any endless missions.

[TheSteelRat]

The issue is how the players feel dealing with the grind.  How frustrated they get, and if it causes them to give up or leave the game.

Before with Void keys I would have problems after 60 waves or 60 minutes of the game crashing and losing connection, never getting rewards, or having a low chance to get the rewards you wanted.

Now the grind is on the front end.  Grind to get relics, grind to get the traces needed to refine them, and the disheartening RNG who still screws you over and forces you do do it all over again.  At least with the old system I was doing 60 waves or 60 minutes of gameplay.  Now i am dealing with crappy matchmaking and host migrations spending time not even playing the game and staring at my screen.

30 Relic packs, 16 failed radiant shares, and I have not gotten a single rare item for the new primed items.  I got 2 rares on INTACT relics while trying to get the uncommon and commons.  I now have to farm traces as I ran out, and then farm more relics which will include relics I do not want, nor need anymore and there is no way for me to just get the specific relics i need for the new prime items.

Anyone is fooling themselves if they think it is better.  it isn't.  There are now two grind walls in the way, and 2 RNG gates you have to go through, where there was just one grind wall and a RNG gate that IMHO was worse.

 

[Taramafor]

I can't believe I'm about to say this, but grinding used to feel fun. Old void made you "stick with people". To get to know them and befriend them. Even if the grinding itself sucked balls. Which it totally could at times. But how is that any different then the grinding we have now? It's just "Spread out in multiple missions" instead of "In the same mission". People moan about the drops either way. Nothing's changed there. Apart from "being taken out of the zone" between the missions to give the illusion that you're not grinding as much as you are, and it hasn't even done that right, this thread being proof of that.

Now what do we have? Quick relic runs. In, out, bye. I don't mind that in and of itself, but it's REPLACED the other. Not sharing the lime light. It's not just hurting "grinding", it's harming the "player community" as a result (Relic run spam in recruit for one). Because it no longer appeals to a certain, lengthy play style. That was in the game to begin with. At least with archwing i can say "Ok, this was added in and didn't replace something". Even if I don't like it.  I'm not even thinking in terms of loot drops. I'm thinking in terms of "I had spent some time with these guys and managed to spend a period of lengthy time having fun with them due to game design". It was easier to connect with people with old void. Which, even though could suck, at least was sucked with good company. Uh... You know what I mean. Sucky loot. But good company (and sometimes bad, but good times and all that). And older playstyles (technically mission styles).

I don't think people are just upset about just loot drops, though that of course factors in. Personally I been lucky with my Ash prime drops. I think people are upset because, even if they didn't like the old void system, they miss the people they were hanging with. Or could hang with. A good chance to get to know others and be more likely to make friends because of it. In a mission, not a relay or bazaar where people just stand around, or even a clan (where there can be nothing to do in the dojo. Mine doesn't even have a training course). The penny didn't drop until I saw this post and was reminded of how things used to be. "Go away old void, I'll cheat on your with this new void". Gee, no wonder I'm miffed. And I say that as a poly guy. I wouldn't mind if the new had been shared, but that's not the case.

Old void I've heard can be "lengthy". But at least it gave multiple drops in the same run. And some people like playing lengthily. Current void is just "In, out, bye, no chance to know you". Which some people will also like (for some reason that baffles me. But I can admit others enjoy it). Either give us both and make everyone happy or find a balance inbetween the two. That way all's fair, and even if people "don't get their way" it will at least result in "Everyone is treated fairly". I honestly can't think of anything that compared to old void in terms of "length". Sure, there's endless missions, but people always leave after the 3rd or 4th drop. There's just little reason to stick around once you get some relics. It was always 50/50 if things were going to be longer or not though. Both before and after. I can't say for certain if relics cause people to be more inclined to not stick around, but it does feel like it. Maybe it just seems like that though. People do sometimes stick around if one says "let's stay a bit longer".

I never knew how much I missed old void until now. Can't believe I just said that, but there you go.

as for grinding for two items (relics and prime drops) didn't we used to have to do the same with old void as well? I think we needed keys back then or something.

Edited November 24, 2016 by Taramafor

[PrVonTuckIII]

19 minutes ago, Taramafor said:

Old void I've heard can be "lengthy". But at least it gave multiple drops in the same run. And some people like playing lengthily. Current void is just "In, out, bye, no chance to know you"

You have obviously not played any Endless missions since the last change. 

[Taramafor]

3 minutes ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

You have obviously not played any Endless missions since the last change. 

Hmm... I have been away for a while. What's different? I still see people leaving after the 3rd and 4th rewards. At least in regards with "relic farming".

Edited November 24, 2016 by Taramafor

[PrVonTuckIII]

Just now, Taramafor said:

Hmm... I have been away for a while. What's different? I still see people leaving after the 3rd and 4th rewards.

I mean, you can stay just as long as you always could, albeit, at the cost of more relics. It's not any different from keys anymore. Perhaps you just got stuck with the wrong groups? I'm getting consistent groups that would enjoy staying for long periods of time.

[Ailissa]

4 hours ago, MattM01 said:

Cool. I'm still waiting for people who are annoyed by this set up which I am guessing are the majority.

Actually the majority are happy with it.

 

 

[Hypernaut1]

Wow, never thought I would read people waxing nostalgic about the old void prime part grind. Especially talking about how great rotation C endless was. Wasn't that the main reason everyone hated it and wanted it changed?

All there is to this game is the grind. If you aren't grinding for parts and rewards, what are you playing for? If you say fun, then the grind shouldn't be a problem because you're having fun.

[Horaciozhao]

5 hours ago, NovusNova said:

 

To me, the newer system is better as it allowed targeted farming as there is only 6 items per relic instead of having 5-10 items per rotation or mission and that you can still get vaulted stuff if you need it via relics that don't get removed from your inventory when something is vaulted whereas in the old system, if you didn't get the Prime frame in time, it was either buy from trading or wait for it to come back.

I agree, plus now you have chance of all the 6 item drops at the same time, before you need to get to a specific rotation to have a chance to roll for the item among other 5-10 of them

[Taramafor]

Quote

If you say fun, then the grind shouldn't be a problem because you're having fun.

That's a lot like saying "This pizza is for taste. Even though it has a certain topping you don't like."

You're nit picking at toppings. I don't "play for the grind" 9/10 times in this game. Even if there are times that I do. For the most part, I enjoy the whole pizza. And take the bad (grind) with the good(fun). with other people. That enjoy doing missions with me for fun. Why else would people play for an hour+ in endless missions? Doesn't get loot faster does it? Doesn't help with "the grind". It's "for fun".

Some people find it fun to collect everything. I only collect certain bits. I can find it fun if it's done with others. The rest of the time I'm doing "Fun for the sake of fun alone". I set my own goals. Fight 'till we struggle. Push our limits. How far can we go? What's the point in collecting loot if you don't use it? Do we really need the devs to give us an excuse to do that? Sometimes, yes, but not always. Players are what shape the games. Not just the objectives set for us.

Edited November 24, 2016 by Taramafor

[MattM01]

I agree with you there but some of us don't have the time to always do that. Some people have jobs and don't always have the time to grind or want to pay for Prime Access. I understand that in every game you will grind(I played Diablo 2 for almost 6yrs. I know what Grinding for a good Grim Scythe or SOJ is like)and you end up making pretty good friends sometimes and that's awesome, but grinding to get relics to grind to get prime parts seems a bit tedious in my humble opinion. I also open to admit I might be wrong on this too so I try not to take those who may not see it my way too personally.

[CelticMoss]

I really want the old void back

[Culaio]

2 hours ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

I mean, you can stay just as long as you always could, albeit, at the cost of more relics. It's not any different from keys anymore. Perhaps you just got stuck with the wrong groups? I'm getting consistent groups that would enjoy staying for long periods of time.

He plays with normal groups, every team I played with since up date didnt stay longer then to 4th reward

Also anyone who says new system is less grindy is wrong, it may feel that way but on average its same, since to upgrade relic you need to use multiple other relics to get enough traces to upgrade it which leads to you actually spending 6-7 relics(doing multiple missions) for one chance to get prime part you want and since frequently you dont get prime part even with full team on first time, it ends up with situation where you spent 20 relics(which means did 20 mission) to finally get one prime part, I personally sometimes got what I wanted on 6 try with full team so it was more then 30 runs/relics for one part...

Edited November 24, 2016 by Culaio

[(PSN)obsidiancurse]

Preferred the old system, this is the first time in probably just under 3 years I have zero enthusiasm for the the hunt. Used to love the new prime, now really just can't give a toss. It's not the primes, Valk and cernos look sexy as Hek, it's not the game itself, been playing the index all week and having a blast, it's just this system.

over 2 hours of play on Tuesday, 1 new relic dropped. Caved yesterday and wasted syndicate points on packs, got another 2. Wasted literally hours on recruiting finding players with the same relics (and that's the real kicker for me, I'm having to wait to play if I want a chance of beating rng) then RNG screws us all over anyway and we get a choice of the same 3 Braton parts or a forma.

I cannot be arsed with this system so gonna bypass it. Use the syndicate points for sellable modes then use the plat to buy the prime sets in about a month when people are virtually giving them away. I suggest anyone in a similar position do the same or equivalent, don't force yourself to play the game in a way you don't enjoy, play it for fun and acquire the stuff in an enjoyable way.

[Madway7]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Stanicek3 said:

  I actually feel this new system is less grindy and more rewarding. Before I had to spend hours trying to get a single rare part. I got Cernos Prime in little to no time.

  I do wish the void was somewhat useful. Either in regards to traces or relics. It would be great if the void at least always rewarded a relic based off what branch(Lith for Phobos, Axi for Sedna) you played, or gave traces based on which branch you played

Personally back then I could just jump into the missions and get a few parts, now it can take me hours to get the relics I need to get the parts.

(I didn't want to say for the boid to become a good place to get relics becauset the derelict kinda is that atm, except that it's drop table is diluted aswell)

[LSG501]

I like the new system of unlocking relics but I don't like the system of getting relics in the first place. 

The amount of times I get the same relic over is too high and theres no way of converting to the ones you actually need... I literally only need the nikana prime relics and the newly released relics out of all the currently available prime items.  I've been trying to get nikana prime relics since release of relics and I don't think I've even had one drop for me.... I've had a couple of new prime items drop yesterday but most of the other ones have been the same ones over and over.   It also gets a little tiresome repeating the same maps over and over just to get the relics to try and get the parts we want. 

While I appreciate grind is needed and that DE basically want us to buy the overpriced Prime Access packs the current system needs to be looked at, either adding in some variation or making it so things like the void/derelict etc actually have a reason to go there. 

Also the fact we can't share keys makes this a lot longer process to get prime items overall.  If we could share keys all it takes is one person with the required key to unlock versus all 4 of us needing keys as it is now.  I've had situations in the new reselect and repeat, sorry endless, relic runs where people haven't had their items show up even though they've got their reactant.

 

 

Edited November 24, 2016 by LSG501