Ash Revisited Feedback Megathread

[ChuckMaverick]

16 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

Depending on weapon Berserker is pointless really, as Attack Speed is capped at 90% (the max amount granted by berserker) and Berserk doesn't affect Blade Storm speed, while Primed Fury does.

The bonus from Berserker is capped at 75%, so not that much better than Primed Fury's 55% if you have it; and as you said Berserker doesn't affect the speed of certain animations, unlike (Primed) Fury, also including the finisher from Fatal Teleport.

Depending on whether you're building for raw damage or slash procs, you could consider swapping out Jagged Edge (or Buzz Kill) for Spoiled Strike, as JE and BK don't affect the bleed damage from slash procs, whereas Spoiled Strike does.

[Nazrethim]

1 hour ago, ChuckMaverick said:

The bonus from Berserker is capped at 75%, so not that much better than Primed Fury's 55% if you have it; and as you said Berserker doesn't affect the speed of certain animations, unlike (Primed) Fury, also including the finisher from Fatal Teleport.

Depending on whether you're building for raw damage or slash procs, you could consider swapping out Jagged Edge (or Buzz Kill) for Spoiled Strike, as JE and BK don't affect the bleed damage from slash procs, whereas Spoiled Strike does.

I just go raw damage for Infested, with Grineer I use Shattering Impact that strips most if not all of their armor, while for COrpus I use Toxin to bypass shields. Though I rarely, if ever, play Corpus missions, because F*ING Ospreys (I don't mind nullies, combas or bursas mind you, just the annoying Ospreys)

[EinheriarJudith]

can we remove multiple marking on a target? Put a mark limit and just make it instant kill. id also like to see when target mark limit reached skill is activated. having to turn on blade storm like some kind of buff is kind of annoying. when i smoke screen and activate bladestorm im doing it for one reason. to kill. 

[(PSN)kingbrown2012]

Ash is dead but put him with zenistar and seeking shurkien and you won't have many problems bladestorm stills need a great rework and not the crap we habe now 

[AKKILLA]

This would be a nice interpretation of how Blade Storm can be reworked in a Stance form. Ash can summon clones that create a short ranged AoE of rapid slash damage, while Finisher/Stealth kills can be a form of the 1st and only Multi-Finisher/Stealth kills in Game. Allowing Ash to utilize all his abilities with in Blade Storm mode is very essential and offers player choice of how to take on each mission and situation. Synergizing with the entire kit making Ash an essential part of gameplay and not just a choice for Ninja Fan boys. It is very important IMO that Smoke Screen as well receive AoE choke cloud for Crowd Control, maintain its stealth mechanics as now to make Smoke Screen stand out from all of the stealth abilities in game granting him a means of survivability/stealth, and crowd control/finisher kills. Another idea I have in mind is a synergy with shuriken, teleport, and smoke screen. The idea is casting shuriken on enemies marks them, in the same manner as now but indicating the enemies under the slash bleed proc. This proc (Blade Storm Only) leaves a Clone that acts as the slash proc, upon each tick a Clone will appear on that enemy doing damage till the tick wears off, while the bleed is active Ash may Free Cast Teleport and will instantly be in front of this target. Smoke Screen can also be targeted for quick teleports allowing Ash for more mobility. There are lots of ideas I have, these are just a few I had in mind I wanted to share

Thank You

AKKILLA

[Vanrythzx]

i would like to see, if bladestorm is activated, 3 shadow clones will spawn assisting him(but are invulnerable), mirror-ing all his abilites.. would be more ninja like and fun as well

[LAWD]

15 hours ago, Vanrythzx said:

i would like to see, if bladestorm is activated, 3 shadow clones will spawn assisting him(but are invulnerable), mirror-ing all his abilites.. would be more ninja like and fun as well

so mirage with finisher damage?

[AKKILLA]

6 hours ago, LAWD said:

so mirage with finisher damage?

Slash bleed procs+Finisher Kills.

IMO Ninjas in all Games and all folk lore have always summoned shadow clones. Mirage isn't the only Frame with Clones.

Loki's decoy, Equinox (Duality Augment) Saryns Molt, Nekros 4 (Not exact clones but You get the idea) Inaros sand minions, etc... I don't see why the actual Ninja cant summon shadow clones?

Edited April 17, 2017 by AKKILLA

[Nazrethim]

29 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

Slash bleed procs+Finisher Kills.

IMO Ninjas in all Games and all folk lore have always summoned shadow clones. Mirage isn't the only Frame with Clones.

Loki's decoy, Equinox (Duality Augment) Saryns Molt, Nekros 4 (Not exact clones but You get the idea) Inaros sand minions, etc... I see why the actual Ninja cant summon shadow clones?

So the clones show up only during specific combos? I like that. As long as it's not a straight summon, nuke or mindless E-spam I can get behind it. Ninjas were master tacticians, not brutes nor mages.

[AKKILLA]

1 hour ago, Nazrethim said:

So the clones show up only during specific combos? I like that. As long as it's not a straight summon, nuke or mindless E-spam I can get behind it. Ninjas were master tacticians, not brutes nor mages.

That's the idea, ever seen Sengoku Basara? Sasuke Sarutobi's combo set has a similar concept, He manipulates a Glaive styled Windmill Shuriken and his combos project shadow clones in a Blade Storm rampage of combos. You are allowed to control him, not press a button and watch a slide show which is aweful. I find Blade Storm terrible to watch as Host but when I see allies it looks sorta cool. I just wish Ash was complete, He is almost there but its hard to get the developers to try out a single individuals idea. I also recommend Smoke Screen Clouds. This offers a more tactical approach and a great Crowd Control, plus synergy with Smoke Shadow for allies to access the buff even late by passing thru this cloud. This grants Ash players a nice way to stun enemies and open Finisher kills for team and himself. A good synergy with smoke screen would also be Teleport, allow Ash to Teleport to these Cloud while aiming at it. Also another synergy I thought of was Shuriken and Teleport. Allow Ash to teleport to enemies tagged with Shuriken, as long as they still have a Bleed proc active you may insta teleport by pressing 3 without line of sight (Imagine Fatal Teleport equipped)

Perfect example of how it can visually look (1min:40 seconds)

[Nazrethim]

Yes, that looks awesome.

[AKKILLA]

1 minute ago, Nazrethim said:

Yes, that looks awesome.

Great!

You like! Now to get everyone else on board and push towards DEs eyes! -_________________-

[Nazrethim]

Just now, AKKILLA said:

Great!

You like! Now to get everyone else on board and push towards DEs eyes! -_________________-

Well, that's always been the big challenge ^^¡

[AKKILLA]

6 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

Well, that's always been the big challenge ^^¡

Hence this Face!

-______________________________________________________________________________________________________-

Lmao

Edited April 18, 2017 by AKKILLA

[xexohunter]

I didn't read all of the 103 pages, so I hope I don't repeat something what was already said.

I want to give ideas to create some kind of synergy in Ashs kit, while using the abilities as they are right now, just with some additions. These will be just examples and maybe need to be tested if DE would like to implement such tweaks.

Bladestorm: While this ability can be very powerful, the animation time can be extremely long and boring when used more than once or twice. I would suggest to limit the animation the player does to max. 3 attacks, leaving the shadow clones for the rest of the attacks. With this change it would be possible to get into this invulnurability phase, but not with the downside to look at this cutscene for 15 seconds.

Teleport: This ability can one shot enemys with easy and I like the finisher animation of the melee weapons. To bring "synergy" into this ability, I would suggest that when you backstab an enemy with teleport and this enemy has some marks from bladestorm, these marks will be consumed and spawn a shadow clone for each consumed mark. Each shadow clone will attack one enemy once that is nearby the teleported target. If there are no other targets the shadow clones will not spawn. The radius shouldn't be high, maybe around 5m. With this addition teleport could work as a mini bladestorm without the need of the bladestorm animation.

Smoke Screen: This is a nice ability to get out of tricky situations or to start a bladestorm chain. The problem is, the low duration of the stealth can limit many builds. To change this we might be able to recast the ability or whenever a bladestorm mark gets consumed (while smoke screen is active) the duration extends for a short period (maybe 1 second per consumed mark) with a cap at 8 seconds. Example: The remaining duration is 6 seconds and 3 marks are consumed -> the remaining duration is 8 seconds. I am not sure if this might be too strong but I would like to see a change in this direction.

Shuriken: Really good ability with the augment, ok without. To get some bonus from marks, I think it would be cool if shuriken could consume one bladestorm mark, spawning a shadow clone backstabbing this enemy once. This could occur every 10 seconds per enemy to prevent spamming this ability.

Ok that's it. I hope you look forward like me to see tweaks like these above.

Have a nice day and an enjoyable gameplay experience.

[Nazrethim]

1 hour ago, xexohunter said:

I didn't read all of the 103 pages, so I hope I don't repeat something what was already said.

I want to give ideas to create some kind of synergy in Ashs kit, while using the abilities as they are right now, just with some additions. These will be just examples and maybe need to be tested if DE would like to implement such tweaks.

Bladestorm: While this ability can be very powerful, the animation time can be extremely long and boring when used more than once or twice. I would suggest to limit the animation the player does to max. 3 attacks, leaving the shadow clones for the rest of the attacks. With this change it would be possible to get into this invulnurability phase, but not with the downside to look at this cutscene for 15 seconds.

Teleport: This ability can one shot enemys with easy and I like the finisher animation of the melee weapons. To bring "synergy" into this ability, I would suggest that when you backstab an enemy with teleport and this enemy has some marks from bladestorm, these marks will be consumed and spawn a shadow clone for each consumed mark. Each shadow clone will attack one enemy once that is nearby the teleported target. If there are no other targets the shadow clones will not spawn. The radius shouldn't be high, maybe around 5m. With this addition teleport could work as a mini bladestorm without the need of the bladestorm animation.

Smoke Screen: This is a nice ability to get out of tricky situations or to start a bladestorm chain. The problem is, the low duration of the stealth can limit many builds. To change this we might be able to recast the ability or whenever a bladestorm mark gets consumed (while smoke screen is active) the duration extends for a short period (maybe 1 second per consumed mark) with a cap at 8 seconds. Example: The remaining duration is 6 seconds and 3 marks are consumed -> the remaining duration is 8 seconds. I am not sure if this might be too strong but I would like to see a change in this direction.

Shuriken: Really good ability with the augment, ok without. To get some bonus from marks, I think it would be cool if shuriken could consume one bladestorm mark, spawning a shadow clone backstabbing this enemy once. This could occur every 10 seconds per enemy to prevent spamming this ability.

Ok that's it. I hope you look forward like me to see tweaks like these above.

Have a nice day and an enjoyable gameplay experience.

This looks nice. I had a similar idea, the difference is that in my idea the marking is Ash's second passive and costs no energy, while Blade Storm is a Stance Ultimate. When you do a Finisher in BS mode Ash either summons clones to finish off nearby enemies or Ash does a special multitarget Finisher attack, either way Ash gains the ability to finish small groups of enemies in a single attack. Teleport would be a Teleport to location that releases a radial stagger with finiser opening and 'hold'ing the ability for 1s releases current BS into the marked enemies (essentially, the abilities no longer overlap, as Teleport gets turned into a mobility tool with current BS baked in, while BS becomes Ash's supermode)

[xexohunter]

21 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

This looks nice. I had a similar idea, the difference is that in my idea the marking is Ash's second passive and costs no energy, while Blade Storm is a Stance Ultimate. When you do a Finisher in BS mode Ash either summons clones to finish off nearby enemies or Ash does a special multitarget Finisher attack, either way Ash gains the ability to finish small groups of enemies in a single attack. Teleport would be a Teleport to location that releases a radial stagger with finiser opening and 'hold'ing the ability for 1s releases current BS into the marked enemies (essentially, the abilities no longer overlap, as Teleport gets turned into a mobility tool with current BS baked in, while BS becomes Ash's supermode)

This sounds really nice too. My intention was to give the current kit some improvement, while the abilities are nearly the same. That way it might be implemented easier than a rework. A complete overhaul would be really nice too, but I don't know which direction DE would go or when a rework could be implemented. As far as I know the next one is Oberon who gets his abilities adjusted, some other older frames might follow.

[Nazrethim]

1 hour ago, xexohunter said:

This sounds really nice too. My intention was to give the current kit some improvement, while the abilities are nearly the same. That way it might be implemented easier than a rework. A complete overhaul would be really nice too, but I don't know which direction DE would go or when a rework could be implemented. As far as I know the next one is Oberon who gets his abilities adjusted, some other older frames might follow.

Indeed. My aim was a complete overhaul while using the already existing assets (Marking mode as Passive, current BS baked into Teleport, Stance BS made by cobbling together claw and sparring animations) and adding minor mechanical tweaks with big impact (adding an actual smoke screen, dividing shuriken into single target non-guided hardhitting shuriken and a barrage of smaller seeking shurikens to marked targets). We're on the same boat here :3

Also, yeah, next is Oberon, Zephyr and/or Hydroid etc. DE did mention releasing Ballas narrated Prime Trailers for previous Primes, so that's a chance for another revisit for Ash when they eventually get to his trailer (which will probably be the last to be made if they go by release order as he was the last frame before Saryn). We also have the Umbras coming, they will start with Excalibur, but future Ash Umbra is also a posibility, so that's another chance.

Or they could make a hasty re-revisit with our ideas when a full year has passed since the first, which will be in a few months. There are plenty of opportunities to give Ash an actual rework.

[W01fe]

more and more i just wonder if it would be better to remove the entirety that is his 4 and give him a group support ability for his ULT.  

you can do seeking shuriken builds and do really high end/long time runs with very high enemies...but it is useless when paired with 4x corrosive projection (not saying everyone should run that, im just saying it doesnt play well together)

you can do fatal teleport and be a solo monster...but it does poorly in most groups as its purely single target

you can try to use the augment for invis but its very niche and not too easy to use outside of a very coordinated group.

his ult outside of regenning shields is kinda useless, its just more damage...he can fatal teleport or seeking shuriken if he wants to be able to kill something just fine.  He has no real support/group utility feature.  Loki has disarm, excal has blind, etc.

IMO he needs a real support skill.    I just dont know what.  

[Nazrethim]

2 hours ago, W01fe said:

more and more i just wonder if it would be better to remove the entirety that is his 4 and give him a group support ability for his ULT.  

you can do seeking shuriken builds and do really high end/long time runs with very high enemies...but it is useless when paired with 4x corrosive projection (not saying everyone should run that, im just saying it doesnt play well together)

you can do fatal teleport and be a solo monster...but it does poorly in most groups as its purely single target

you can try to use the augment for invis but its very niche and not too easy to use outside of a very coordinated group.

his ult outside of regenning shields is kinda useless, its just more damage...he can fatal teleport or seeking shuriken if he wants to be able to kill something just fine.  He has no real support/group utility feature.  Loki has disarm, excal has blind, etc.

IMO he needs a real support skill.    I just dont know what.  

Well, my rework idea actually gave him support in Shuriken (by making it a dual ability, Single High damage shuriken not guided or a barrage of smaller lower damage seeking shurikens to all marked enemies, both gaining benefits from Seeking Shuriken augment) and Smoke Screen (essentially being able to leave a cloud after cast and being able to cast the cloud at range if necesary, which combined with Smoke Shadow could provide cover for allies). Blade Storm, by it's name, should be a killing ability. So far, the only way Ash ultimate could be reworked without being a boring nuke or a summon (he's a ninja, not a mage, and Naruto barely has a ninja theme, they are more like kung fu wizards with kunais) is to make it a  Stance ultimate that boosts his kill power, but to make it stand out it must have a more tactical aproach: No more mindless E-spam (we have Exalted Spam, Hyspam and Primal Spam for that)

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

I want to suggest change to ash ult again: this time is a mix between old bladestorm & new

- Ash will mark only 1 enemy in bladestorm stance (dark smoke) then from within the enemy, expand a "polarize" smoke, draining energy from ash constantly.

all enemies in contact with "polarize" smoke will be marked, Ash can release bladestorm anytime to all marked enemies ALL AT ONCE. (with his clones) but only showing finisher animation to 1 enemy (to the initial mark enemy or any enemy if the initial died).

Any marked enemies died before bladestorm release will make the "polarize" expand faster. The more range "polarize" smoke expand, the more powerful the bladestorm will be (affected by duration, long duration = slower expand, short dura = faster expand)

NEW ANIMATIONS IS A MUST

I suggest for samurai/ninja speed slash themed animations, must have ending stance as well, something like when a samurai sheated his sword after a speed slash like. In case of ash, it can be a NINJA GAIDEN-esque hand seal movement.

the "polarize" smoke will "shrink back" to ash as he make that ending stance, then release them again as a 12m radial burst slash proc that also stun the enemies around.

Edited April 20, 2017 by (PS4)ATreidezz

[AKKILLA]

Great everyone sorta wants an EXALTED BLADE STORM rework!

Seeing that this current rework didn't hit the Mark, now we want a Stance. It makes more sense to Ash, use Shurikens in blade storm as Your ranged attack, and method of marking enemies at distances, smoke screen for crowd control and quick finisher kills, teleport for quick instant travel with synergy between shuriken and smoke screen all together, and of coarse Ashs special clones to hep dispatch enemies faster, give him a sense of Super Ninjutsu Technique, and of coarse for all who really use Ash should know each clone also takes part in procing Arcane Trickery soo the clones as well proc Finisher damage when Ash performs finishers on enemies in cloud or performing a Stealth Kill all together.

Imagine using Ashs Blade Storm to run a stealth mission, You should be able to kill enemies in Blade Storm and remain undetected all while procing Stealth Multipliers.

Imo it makes no sense for Blade Storm undetected kills not to. Ash is a Stealth Assassin

[Nazrethim]

4 hours ago, AKKILLA said:

Great everyone sorta wants an EXALTED BLADE STORM rework!

Well, not everyone wants that, some want a nuke, some a clone summoning sorta-nuke. Problem is that none of those adress as many issues as a Stance Blade Storm would.

There's also the bit where not everyone who agrees on Stance ultimate agrees on how it should be handled. For example:

4 hours ago, AKKILLA said:

Seeing that this current rework didn't hit the Mark, now we want a Stance. It makes more sense to Ash, use Shurikens in blade storm as Your ranged attack, and method of marking enemies at distances,

I think Marking shouldn't be tied to Shuriken, but rather turned into Ash's second passive (similar to how Nidus has two passives, one completely passive and one that affects his abilities). With Shuriken having two functions: as a single piercing non-guided shuriken (perfect for taking out high profile targets) or a barrage of smaller seeking shurikens to all marked targets, the difference would be a 1s long 'Hold' and then the ability goes off. Since we can reverse Tap/Hold abilities via options, you can set which side of the coin goes with the tap.

Same would apply to Smoke Screen: Cloud of Smoke where you are or Cloud of Smoke where you are aiming.

Teleport: Teleport to where you are aiming causing a radial stun+finisher opening (automatically finishing nearest enemy or the one you aimed at if FT is equiped) Or initiate current Blade Storm with whatever melee weapon you have equipped (which could be your melee of choice or stance blade storm's wristblades)

Quote

 when Ash performs finishers on enemies  performing a Stealth Kill all together.

Imagine using Ashs Blade Storm to run a stealth mission, You should be able to kill enemies in Blade Storm and remain undetected all while procing Stealth Multipliers.

Imo it makes no sense for Blade Storm undetected kills not to. Ash is a Stealth Assassin

This. Plus make replace his roll/dodge maneuvers by manic like smoky dashes/teleports to add to his elusiveness theme. Instead of autoparry+waves, invulnerability+life steal or ever increasing range, Ash would gain increased mobility+multikill finishers.

Edited April 20, 2017 by Nazrethim

[TheHUNKMrDeath]

Ash at the moment is poor version of Loki. He has nothing that would make him stand out.

4 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

Plus make replace his roll/dodge maneuvers by manic like smoky dashes/teleports to add to his elusiveness theme.

That sounds really cool.

Blade storm should be changed entirely. It takes too long to perform and after changes it takes a lot of time and energy to mark enemies (who are often killed by your team before you can do anything). In my humble opinion his 4 should be changed into a set of tools:

- shurikens during his ult mark enemies to be executed by clones

- you fight with your hidden blades

- cost of teleport is decreased by half during bladestorm

- the enemies accuracy is decreased while aiming at you

- it consumes energy like exalted blade

- it takes melee mods stats

I hope someone will read this.

Have a nice day.

 

[Somethinglurks]

On 4/20/2017 at 2:34 PM, TheHUNKMrDeath said:

Ash at the moment is poor version of Loki. He has nothing that would make him stand out.

That sounds really cool.

Blade storm should be changed entirely. It takes too long to perform and after changes it takes a lot of time and energy to mark enemies (who are often killed by your team before you can do anything). In my humble opinion his 4 should be changed into a set of tools:

- shurikens during his ult mark enemies to be executed by clones

- you fight with your hidden blades

- cost of teleport is decreased by half during bladestorm

- the enemies accuracy is decreased while aiming at you

- it consumes energy like exalted blade

- it takes melee mods stats

I hope someone will read this.

Have a nice day.

 

Love it