Ash Revisited Feedback Megathread

[Nazrethim]

3 hours ago, xKazuto said:

Also don't forget the whole use in end game use of Blade Storm is laughable now. I only have a BS build to attempt to show people how BS works at high level:

• You go invisible
• Mark enemies
  • So much fun *sarcasm*
• Sit there watching
  • Even more fun *still sarcasm*
  • Because it shows every single kill, and is even more boring compared to Pre-Nerf
• Your invisibility runs out
  • 12 Seconds isn't good enough
  • For some reason 2 Sets of Arcane Trickery haven't proc'd yet...
• The survivors shoot you once BS ends
  • Of course you didn't even have time to move or go invisible
  • At this point you have died once shot at.

BS in endgame in a nutshell.

Conclave Version:

-You reach 100 energy

-You get within 8m range of your target.

-You activate marking mode, which prevents you from jumping or parkouring, leaving you exposed to anything and allows your target to escape

-From here there are 8 posibilities, in order of likelyhood:

 1) your target escapes out of reach and mark dissapears, then he/she kills your inpaired Ash.

2) Your target kills you while you have a mark active and you lose 100 energy on nothing.

3) Someone else kills your target before you can unleash the mark and you still wasted 100 energy

4) You unleash BS and die mid animation before dealing damage due to stray fire or AoE

5) You unleash BS on a target with full health/shield and don't manage to break shields.*

6) You unleash BS on a target with half shields, you break shields and not damage health*

7) You unleash BS on a target at 75% health and no shields and still don't kill them*

8) You unleash BS on a target who is at less than 50% health and no shields and get a kill.

 

* Afterwards you return to your original position, this casting recovery is enough for the target to recover from the knockdown and kill you because knockdown recovery is 50% faster than your cast recovery.

 

 

[BrownZFilmZ]

18 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

Conclave Version:

-You reach 100 energy

-You get within 8m range of your target.

-You activate marking mode, which prevents you from jumping or parkouring, leaving you exposed to anything and allows your target to escape

-From here there are 8 posibilities, in order of likelyhood:

 1) your target escapes out of reach and mark dissapears, then he/she kills your inpaired Ash.

2) Your target kills you while you have a mark active and you lose 100 energy on nothing.

3) Someone else kills your target before you can unleash the mark and you still wasted 100 energy

4) You unleash BS and die mid animation before dealing damage due to stray fire or AoE

5) You unleash BS on a target with full health/shield and don't manage to break shields.*

6) You unleash BS on a target with half shields, you break shields and not damage health*

7) You unleash BS on a target at 75% health and no shields and still don't kill them*

8) You unleash BS on a target who is at less than 50% health and no shields and get a kill.

 

* Afterwards you return to your original position, this casting recovery is enough for the target to recover from the knockdown and kill you because knockdown recovery is 50% faster than your cast recovery.

 

 

Wow, feels bad man... How can DE ignore our complaints, but listen to casuals about nerfs...

[Hypernaut1]

5 hours ago, xKazuto said:

Wow, feels bad man... How can DE ignore our complaints, but listen to casuals about nerfs...

These aren't complaints, it's a fan concept thread gone wild. It's actually counter productive. DE is not going to turn Ash into a new frame. It makes more sense to ask for reasonable tweaks than exaggerate how unplayable he is.

[Nazrethim]

12 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

These aren't complaints, it's a fan concept thread gone wild. It's actually counter productive. DE is not going to turn Ash into a new frame. It makes more sense to ask for reasonable tweaks than exaggerate how unplayable he is.

Oh but we did. We asked for:

-Reduced cinematic (which could be adressed by making Ash only do 1/3rd of the animations and the rest be handled by clones, like old bs did)

-A less stupid energy cost. The ability shouldn't require more than 100 energy to kill/attack 20 targets/marks

-Allow teleport to be cast on terrain.

 

Conclave

-Buff the ability damage  to 300 like every other ultimate. Or more considering it's not an AoE and needs to be aimed.

-Remove the "can't jump or parkour" ridiculous impairment while it's active

-Keep marking range at 8m but increase fall-off range to 15-20m

-Make Ash actually inmune to AoEs mid animation. The vulnerability to non-AoE abilities or stray fire from non-aoe weapons is fine though.

 

And we aren't exagerating anything, because we've never spoken but the truth.

 

Edited June 16, 2017 by Nazrethim

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

On 6/14/2017 at 5:40 PM, xKazuto said:

Also don't forget the whole use in end game use of Blade Storm is laughable now. I only have a BS build to attempt to show people how BS works at high level:

• You go invisible
• Mark enemies
  • So much fun *sarcasm*
• Sit there watching
  • Even more fun *still sarcasm*
  • Because it shows every single kill, and is even more boring compared to Pre-Nerf
• Your invisibility runs out
  • 12 Seconds isn't good enough
  • For some reason 2 Sets of Arcane Trickery haven't proc'd yet...
• The survivors shoot you once BS ends
  • Of course you didn't even have time to move or go invisible
  • At this point you have died once shot at.

BS in endgame in a nutshell.

Yup

[askaninja]

As of this writing there are 127 pages of comments here; most of which seem to indicate most regular players like the changes. For perspective this thread that has been open for such a short time has about 1/4 the number of posts as the biggest thread I know has open --- the main Design Council welcome ---- thread has which has been open since 2012. I just wanted to point out some stuff that appears to been overlooked:

Ash is one of the first characters. Until the nerf ashes abilities have not been significantly changed for years since 2013 (v6.3), and that change was to make it more powerful since it was deemed far too weak. The original fan base played the character and saw nothing wrong with it, because it was a truly balanced frame. I doubt it has been such a significant problem that for over 5 years nothing was done. There was no major out cry from the community to change it that drove people away. From what I can tell, people are being driven away from the nerf though. There is an outcry from the community to restore what it is.

People make mistakes, that is part of being human and forgivable. When you don't learn from your own mistakes though you hurt yourself.  And only the people that care about you will be honest enough to tell you the truth in a kind and gentle way. Lets revert Ash to what it was, close the thread, and move forward already.

 

Edited June 16, 2017 by askaninja

[-CG-Aurigio]

On 6/15/2017 at 6:40 AM, xKazuto said:

Also don't forget the whole use in end game use of Blade Storm is laughable now. I only have a BS build to attempt to show people how BS works at high level:

• You go invisible
• Mark enemies
  • So much fun *sarcasm*
• Sit there watching
  • Even more fun *still sarcasm*
  • Because it shows every single kill, and is even more boring compared to Pre-Nerf
• Your invisibility runs out
  • 12 Seconds isn't good enough
  • For some reason 2 Sets of Arcane Trickery haven't proc'd yet...
• The survivors shoot you once BS ends
  • Of course you didn't even have time to move or go invisible
  • At this point you have died once shot at.

BS in endgame in a nutshell.

You forgot to say that if you do miraculously manage to live and succeed with marking everyone, everyone you marked was killed already by teammates. 

Other than that, spot on.

[Shuuro]

Man I've stopped playing this game for almost a year now huh? Still not even a word about Ash fix huh. Welp. Back to my other MMO which I can at least play without feeling like I got a stick shoved up my *** because other people cried nerf this one skill and change nothing else about the class in a positive manner which makes up for the heavy nerf.

It's not like DE doesn't know how to make good frames. Frames released after Ash's *fix* proves that otherwise.

Honestly such a disappointment. I can't believe I waited almost a year for this *revamp* of Ash, and foolishly waited another to see if anything would be done about it.

[(PSN)vrykolacas82]

On 6/16/2017 at 3:41 AM, Hypernaut1 said:

These aren't complaints, it's a fan concept thread gone wild. It's actually counter productive. DE is not going to turn Ash into a new frame. It makes more sense to ask for reasonable tweaks than exaggerate how unplayable he is.

You and I have a different understanding of what a 'complaint' is. 

You mention these aren't complaints but you do say people exaggerate how unplayable he is. They exaggerate this how if not with complaints? 

[(PSN)Vexx757]

Things wrong with Ash`s bladestorm

·         He can`t use bs in a team because other players kill the marked target e.g ember, mirage with simulor etc.

·         He can`t kill in an AOE anymore.

·         The animation is shown for every enemy marked which means bs is way longer than before.

·         Activating bs is slow because of the two stages.

·         When using bs without a melee weapon is even slower to use before the change.

·         It`s harder to activate bs on a controller than on PC.

The corrected way to rework bs is to keep the old bs but with small changes;

·         Enemies that are marked can be killed by players

·         Make bs be able to kill 20 enemies

·         If players don’t want to watch animation press 4 again to come out of it and the clones will continue killing while Ash kills other thing but you can`t use bs again until all marked enemies are dead. So the animation is still there but you have a choice whether you want to watch the animation or not. Also if a teammate is downed ash can come out of bs and revive the downed teammate.

·         Make bs set with an appropriate speed then make melee mods with fury speed up bs.

[Kezriak]

There is a serious problem DE when ash's rework topic is still going strong after a year.

[(PSN)PowerArmorMeow]

On 6/20/2017 at 9:02 AM, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

Things wrong with Ash`s bladestorm

 

·         He can`t use bs in a team because other players kill the marked target e.g ember, mirage with simulor etc.

·         He can`t kill in an AOE anymore.

·         The animation is shown for every enemy marked which means bs is way longer than before.

·         Activating bs is slow because of the two stages.

·         When using bs without a melee weapon is even slower to use before the change.

·         It`s harder to activate bs on a controller than on PC.

The corrected way to rework bs is to keep the old bs but with small changes;

 

·         Enemies that are marked can be killed by players

·         Make bs be able to kill 20 enemies

·         If players don’t want to watch animation press 4 again to come out of it and the clones will continue killing while Ash kills other thing but you can`t use bs again until all marked enemies are dead. So the animation is still there but you have a choice whether you want to watch the animation or not. Also if a teammate is downed ash can come out of bs and revive the downed teammate.

·         Make bs set with an appropriate speed then make melee mods with fury speed up bs.

Personally I dislike Ash, There are warframes that do any job he can do far better. Need a frame to kill alot of enemies  use any frame with an AOE. 
Need a stealth frame, Loki and Ivara.

As for fixing bladestorm...

bladestorm is kind of crappy. Your better suited allies will likely kill the enemy that poor ash is targeting. 
There in lies one problem the targeting.

How about this , rather than having the player mark targets have Bladestorm's targeting be instantaneous. The moment you press that 4/r1+Triangle(lb+y) Ash should mark any enemy that is within line of sight on the screen. This would save sooooo much time instead of having to move your reticle/cursor to paint targets.

The problem with this idea is if there are alot of enemies on-screen. In which case there would have to be a limitation like 10 as an unranked Ash but as you rank up that number grows in increments and can be affected by mods possibly mods that effect duration maybe?

This doesn't change the fact that your allies can still kill the enemies before Ash does but atleast it's far quicker and has the chance at allowing a player to kill 25% of them.

I agree with the idea of pressing the 4 ( and the console correlated buttons) to allow a player to escape the awesome yet monotonous kill animations of bladestorm allowing the player to go and do things independent from the Ash clones 

Another thought, get rid of Ash's Shuriken...it is redundant. You can equip Hikou and be far more effective than using Shuriken. This ability should be replaced, possibly with something that benefits the team. The question is to replace it with what?

Well one idea I had was to allow Ash to mark enemies with the first ability and enemies that are marked become more vulnerable and take more damage from all sources. This puts Ash in a position similar to banshee's sonar , but where Sonar marks enemy weak points , this would just make crit chance higher for Ash and his allies, and since Ash has marked the enemy beforehand then the enemy could be added to the bladestorm. It adds abit of synergy and although it is like a neutered bladestorm it atleast gives Ash something to do. Besides running around and flailing about because his bladestorm ain't killing anything.

If that's an idea that doesn't sit well with anyone, ( because it would make Banshee's sonar obsolete ) maybe a blow dart ? Ash could have Darts that can work similar to Vauban's traps. Ash gets maybe 3 different darts. 1 dart that deals lots of toxic damage, another dart that does blast damage, and 1 dart that makes an enemy go berserk and attacks friend or foe.Its an idea that could probably be further refined, but that is where I stand on it.

 I don't see any problem with Ash's Smokescreen personally so that could stay

I'm alitle iffy about Teleport but again it isn't an ability I personally have any gripes with, but if I had to change teleport into something else maybe allows Ash the ability to transform/disguise himself as one of the enemy. Ninja have been known to infiltrate and the more romanticized Ninja's have been known to transform into beasts and other people. Well Ash is a Ninja frame so why not? I think this would make Ash an even better stealth frame than Loki or Ivara. 

Simply put Loki and Ivara just turn invisible, that is nothing and mediocre. If Ash could transform into say an Elite Grineer Lancer and have all grineer literally ignore him then that would be stupidly powerful and would make spy missions trivial as the enemy and the camera's would consider him as an ally. The lasers not so much but the point of the matter is a frame that can do this can literally sneak up on enemies and kill them without a problem. Course the only way to strap a limitation to this is to either A) Have Duration control it, in which case start putting duration mods Ash to make such an ability last, or B) Have it progressively deplete Ash's energy , in which case you'd have to maximize your efficiency,

Edited June 22, 2017 by (PS4)PowerArmorMeow

[Music4Therapy]

Something simple would be having all of his abilities, not just his Stealth, have a unique interaction with marked targets that scales in strength with the number of marks on said targets.

1) His 3 teleports him to a random marked target when no target is selected (this would mean he no longer requires LoS to teleport to a target) and grants him a damage boost for X seconds pending on the number of marks on the target.

2A) Then make his 1 have some sort of boost, such as debilitating marked targets that are hit by shurikens. This would consume all the marks on the target. Slowing marked targets by 20% per mark, 60% max, and scales with power strength... so he can slow/stop targets for X seconds which scales off duration.

2B) If we don't want to give Ash CC, we can also make it to where his shurikens refund energy based on the number of marks on a target. Again, this would consume the marks on the target and as a balance measure there'd be a cooldown on placing more marks on the target hit by Shuriken. This would help with any energy woes he may have (please don't say take Zenurik, schools are being reworked and frames should be designed to function without them.)

 

 

Imo, as a frame with a damage focus he should have a way to buff his damage in his kit. Also, the fact that currently all he does is damage and stealth without providing any sort of party utility (aside from his smoke augment) holds him back. I solve this issue by giving of some decent CC. That said, if DE doesn't want to go the CC route, having his Shurikens refund energy would allow him to liberally chuck shurikens at enemies for damage/armor stripping/energy.

[(PSN)PowerArmorMeow]

On 6/21/2017 at 6:12 AM, Music4Therapy said:

Something simple would be having all of his abilities, not just his Stealth, have a unique interaction with marked targets that scales in strength with the number of marks on said targets.

1) His 3 teleports him to a random marked target when no target is selected (this would mean he no longer requires LoS to teleport to a target) and grants him a damage boost for X seconds pending on the number of marks on the target.

2A) Then make his 1 have some sort of boost, such as debilitating marked targets that are hit by shurikens. This would consume all the marks on the target. Slowing marked targets by 20% per mark, 60% max, and scales with power strength... so he can slow/stop targets for X seconds which scales off duration.

2B) If we don't want to give Ash CC, we can also make it to where his shurikens refund energy based on the number of marks on a target. Again, this would consume the marks on the target and as a balance measure there'd be a cooldown on placing more marks on the target hit by Shuriken. This would help with any energy woes he may have (please don't say take Zenurik, schools are being reworked and frames should be designed to function without them.)

 

 

Imo, as a frame with a damage focus he should have a way to buff his damage in his kit. Also, the fact that currently all he does is damage and stealth without providing any sort of party utility (aside from his smoke augment) holds him back. I solve this issue by giving of some decent CC. That said, if DE doesn't want to go the CC route, having his Shurikens refund energy would allow him to liberally chuck shurikens at enemies for damage/armor stripping/energy.

I kinda just disagree with shuriken. Its just so redundant. Almost every warframe has an interesting 1 yet Ash gets stuck with throwing 1 shuriken. Like I said before Why would I wanna ever use his 1 when  I can just mod Hikou.

I would rather DE replace the Shuriken ability completely with anything, or tweak Shuriken so that its more like a toggle ability that you turn on and replaces your primary firing with just shooting multiple shuriken rather than just 1 .

This is just my opinion and I dunno if anyone shares the same feeling I do about his 1.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

24 minutes ago, (PS4)PowerArmorMeow said:

This is just my opinion and I dunno if anyone shares the same feeling I do about his 1.

Or unique characteristics. Such as a hold 1 to throw 1 aimed shuriken that impales enemies to walls, and/or tap 1 throws a fan of 6 and enemies hit receive slash procs and it adds .25 to your combo counter..I do agree that his 1 is a cop out should be more unique, compared to just hikou with corrosive damage. I have a Riven for Hikou that does a better job at stripping armor than Ashes seeking shuriken augment lol.

Edited June 22, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74

[(PSN)Vexx757]

On 20/06/2017 at 2:02 PM, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

Things wrong with Ash`s bladestorm

 

·         He can`t use bs in a team because other players kill the marked target e.g ember, mirage with simulor etc.

·         He can`t kill in an AOE anymore.

·         The animation is shown for every enemy marked which means bs is way longer than before.

·         Activating bs is slow because of the two stages.

·         When using bs without a melee weapon is even slower to use before the change.

·         It`s harder to activate bs on a controller than on PC.

The corrected way to rework bs is to keep the old bs but with small changes;

 

·         Enemies that are marked can be killed by players

·         Make bs be able to kill 20 enemies

·         If players don’t want to watch animation press 4 again to come out of it and the clones will continue killing while Ash kills other thing but you can`t use bs again until all marked enemies are dead. So the animation is still there but you have a choice whether you want to watch the animation or not. Also if a teammate is downed ash can come out of bs and revive the downed teammate.

·         Make bs set with an appropriate speed then make melee mods with fury speed up bs.

Just to add onto what I said the things that my Idea address is that now Ash can now revive fallen players and (which is the best part) it doesn't matter if an ash player spams bs because like I said before enemies marked red can be killed by other players it's just the killing execution is like before. Also what DE did to Ash was a revisit (tweak existing abilities) not a rework (tweaking and adding new abilities) so that is why peoples that were coming up with new abilities never got heard because they were tweaking Ash not replacing and adding new abilities. Ash is still my fave warframe regardless of his 4th ability nerf because looks the part ( he has upgraded from a ninja to a samurai) and he does the part, unfortunately now I'm having to tolerate his 4th ability.

Edited June 25, 2017 by (PS4)Vexx757

[Nazrethim]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

Just to add onto what I said the things that my Idea address is that now Ash can now revive fallen players and (which is the best part) it doesn't matter if an ash player spams bs because like I said before enemies marked red can be killed by other players it's just the killing execution is like before. Also what DE did to Ash was a revisit (tweak existing abilities) not a rework (tweaking and adding new abilities) so that is why peoples that were coming up with new abilities never got heard because they were tweaking Ash not replacing and adding new abilities. Ash is still my fave warframe regardless of his 4th ability nerf because looks the part ( he has upgraded from a ninja to a samurai) and he does the part, unfortunately now I'm having to tolerate his 4th ability.

Actually, other than "Cast Smoke Screen on the move" and the Teleport targeting tweak (that was not asked and in fact made life a litte bit sh*ttier by telebugging inside objects) the revisit was all nerfs. BS got nerfed into garbage in PvE. Rising Storm had a niche (it worked with body count and drifting contact) and was nerfed for no reason, Smoke Shadow ally invisibility is now affected by nullifier bubbles. Virtually ALL of his abilities were nerfed into useless in Conclave to the point Channeling is a better energy investment than casting any.

[BrownZFilmZ]

On 6/16/2017 at 10:39 AM, GPDM said:

You forgot to say that if you do miraculously manage to live and succeed with marking everyone, everyone you marked was killed already by teammates. 

Other than that, spot on.

Fair enough, I agree. Oh how the tables have turned for Ash :/

[BrownZFilmZ]

On 6/22/2017 at 7:40 AM, (PS4)PowerArmorMeow said:

I kinda just disagree with shuriken. Its just so redundant. Almost every warframe has an interesting 1 yet Ash gets stuck with throwing 1 shuriken. Like I said before Why would I wanna ever use his 1 when  I can just mod Hikou.

I would rather DE replace the Shuriken ability completely with anything, or tweak Shuriken so that its more like a toggle ability that you turn on and replaces your primary firing with just shooting multiple shuriken rather than just 1 .

This is just my opinion and I dunno if anyone shares the same feeling I do about his 1.

If they removed his Shuriken, he would be even more nerfed. Right now Ash can take off 100% of the enemy's armor with one Shuriken if you run 140% Power Strength (130 or 140 unsure) and Seeking Shuriken. If they changed that out, I'd be even more disappointed.

Edited June 25, 2017 by xKazuto

[True_Naeblis]

On 6/22/2017 at 7:40 AM, (PS4)PowerArmorMeow said:

I kinda just disagree with shuriken. Its just so redundant. Almost every warframe has an interesting 1 yet Ash gets stuck with throwing 1 shuriken. Like I said before Why would I wanna ever use his 1 when  I can just mod Hikou.

I would rather DE replace the Shuriken ability completely with anything, or tweak Shuriken so that its more like a toggle ability that you turn on and replaces your primary firing with just shooting multiple shuriken rather than just 1 .

This is just my opinion and I dunno if anyone shares the same feeling I do about his 1.

That would be a horrible change. His Shiruken makes is the only ability he has that actually benefits the whole team when it's applied, and it allows you to run other elements on his weapons rather than having to take one or two slots for corrosive. On top of that the damage is good and you can hit multiple targets at once. That's one ability I hope they stay far away from, they've already hurt him enough.

[StonedMakak]

On 26/06/2017 at 5:38 AM, True_Naeblis said:

That would be a horrible change. His Shiruken makes is the only ability he has that actually benefits the whole team when it's applied, and it allows you to run other elements on his weapons rather than having to take one or two slots for corrosive. On top of that the damage is good and you can hit multiple targets at once. That's one ability I hope they stay far away from, they've already hurt him enough.

I get a feeling that what you like about his #1 is the armour stripping and not the skill itself. This aspect is easy enough to preserve, i.e. by just keeping the augment and making it work with the new mechanics. Additionally (or alternatively, if it turns out a bit much), innate armour stripping based on combo counter (3x strips 100%) can be incorporated into the reworked Shiruken; and then the augment would either enhance that (1.5x strips 100%) or make it power str based like it is now.

It's one of those situations where you can have your cake and eat it too. Just sayin'.

Edited June 27, 2017 by tisdfogg

[Nazrethim]

38 minutes ago, tisdfogg said:

It's one of those situation where you can have your cake and eat it too. Just sayin'.

What IF...

Ash gets a Second passive: Whenever the player Holds RMB (blocking, gliding, latching, aiming) any enemy aimed gets a mark (like current bs) at no energy cost and only a single mark. Said mark highlights marked enemies on the map and increase the Finisher damage they take.

Shuriken then gets split in two functions:

Tap: Throws a single very powerful Shuriken in a straight line with 1.5 Punch Trough and 100% armor stripping. No tracking. 25 energy.

Hold (fixed 1s with autorelease): Throws a smaller weaker seeking shurikens to all marked enemies at 10 energy per Shuriken with no punch trough and only 50% armor stripping.

Augment: Seeking Shuriken:

Tap: Shuriken bounces off surfaces it can't pierce trough up to 3 times

Hold: Shurikens gain 1.5 Punch Trough.

[StonedMakak]

On 26/06/2017 at 0:57 PM, Nazrethim said:

What IF...

Ash gets a Second passive: Whenever the player Holds RMB (blocking, gliding, latching, aiming) any enemy aimed gets a mark (like current bs) at no energy cost and only a single mark. Said mark highlights marked enemies on the map and increase the Finisher damage they take.

Shuriken then gets split in two functions:

Tap: Throws a single very powerful Shuriken in a straight line with 1.5 Punch Trough and 100% armor stripping. No tracking. 25 energy.

Hold (fixed 1s with autorelease): Throws a smaller weaker seeking shurikens to all marked enemies at 10 energy per Shuriken with no punch trough and only 50% armor stripping.

Augment: Seeking Shuriken:

Tap: Shuriken bounces off surfaces it can't pierce trough up to 3 times

Hold: Shurikens gain 1.5 Punch Trough.

For the record, the energy-free marks would not contribute to current BS marking mechanic, correct? Seems like a pretty interesting passive. Maybe even marked enemies can be seen through walls?

 

 

[Nazrethim]

1 hour ago, tisdfogg said:

For the record, the energy-free marks would not contribute to current BS marking mechanic, correct? Seems like a pretty interesting passive. Maybe even marked enemies can be seen through walls?

That is correct. This second passive "Death Mark" and the Shuriken rework are actually part of a bigger Rework concept. In it, the passive also affects Teleport. Tap to teleport to the aimed location, staggering and opening to Finisher attacks to enemies in a small radius. Hold to unleash what is current Blade Storm on targets marked by the passive.

Blade Storm would then be changed into a Duration-based Stance Ultimate that focuses on proper combo use and Finisher attacks. Basic combo would do nothing special, pause combo would feature Finisher openings and RMB would feature dash attack for improved mobility in battle. Combos would be 3 to 4 inputs long (opposed to EB, Hysteria and Primal Fury's 6 to 8 inputs long combos). Finisher attacks in this mode would cause clones to show up to finish nearby enemies, dealing the same damage as Ash, effectively giving him multi-kill Finisher attacks. This feature would work on Teleport!Hold Finishers too, effectively giving a more controlled Blade Storm as powerful as old, interactive but retaining the "cutscene" (now made entirely optional).

In said rework concept Smoke Screen is also changed: Tap to cast at Ash's feet, Hold to cast at aimed location. Creating a Smoke Cloud that chokes and opens enemies in it to Finishers, and making Ash invisible while inside the cloud and for 8s after leaving it (mechanically, the invisibility would be a top-screen buff applied every second inside the cloud, the ability icon would display the cloud's remaining duration). Cloud duration would be 12s. Smoke Shadow Augment would enable Allies to gain the benefits of Smoke Screen.

All "Hold" features would be on a fixed 1s long hold with auto-release, tailored for fast paced gameplay as opposed to, say, Ivara's Quiver which is for a more relaxed style of play.

 

The "marked enemies can be seen trough walls" would be an interesting feature, and it could be added by default or from an Exilus Augment mod, which would make it the first Passive Augment mod too.

[StonedMakak]

4 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

That is correct. This second passive "Death Mark" and the Shuriken rework are actually part of a bigger Rework concept. In it, the passive also affects Teleport. Tap to teleport to the aimed location, staggering and opening to Finisher attacks to enemies in a small radius. Hold to unleash what is current Blade Storm on targets marked by the passive.

Blade Storm would then be changed into a Duration-based Stance Ultimate that focuses on proper combo use and Finisher attacks. Basic combo would do nothing special, pause combo would feature Finisher openings and RMB would feature dash attack for improved mobility in battle. Combos would be 3 to 4 inputs long (opposed to EB, Hysteria and Primal Fury's 6 to 8 inputs long combos). Finisher attacks in this mode would cause clones to show up to finish nearby enemies, dealing the same damage as Ash, effectively giving him multi-kill Finisher attacks. This feature would work on Teleport!Hold Finishers too, effectively giving a more controlled Blade Storm as powerful as old, interactive but retaining the "cutscene" (now made entirely optional).

In said rework concept Smoke Screen is also changed: Tap to cast at Ash's feet, Hold to cast at aimed location. Creating a Smoke Cloud that chokes and opens enemies in it to Finishers, and making Ash invisible while inside the cloud and for 8s after leaving it (mechanically, the invisibility would be a top-screen buff applied every second inside the cloud, the ability icon would display the cloud's remaining duration). Cloud duration would be 12s. Smoke Shadow Augment would enable Allies to gain the benefits of Smoke Screen.

All "Hold" features would be on a fixed 1s long hold with auto-release, tailored for fast paced gameplay as opposed to, say, Ivara's Quiver which is for a more relaxed style of play.

 

The "marked enemies can be seen trough walls" would be an interesting feature, and it could be added by default or from an Exilus Augment mod, which would make it the first Passive Augment mod too.

One might be tempted to assume that after a year this thread is nothing but a circle jerk of people who just can't get over Ash's rework. But posts like this show that's not the case. Not only some great ideas in there, but also consideration is given to people who are satisfied with current BS, so that the new moveset seamlessly includes the old Ult.

It would be so much easier to just totally disregard the opposing point of view. Rare thing on the forums. Should be +3 for idea, diplomatic approach and perseverance, but I just have one, so +1.