Ash Revisited Feedback Megathread

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

11 minutes ago, FlarmBlarg said:

I'm pretty sure shuriken is bugged when using Nidus's Larva, using seeking just causes even more chaos, basically I found that if enemies are caught in the mass, they take like 10-20 ticks in a single second instead of the single one meaning that enemies health just gets completely melted, it seems to kind of work with ash's 4 ability but no where near as much as shuriken 

Nah, it's a bug with shuriken + ragdoll, try using the sonicor with Ash's 1. It's broken.

[FlarmBlarg]

2 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Angryspy101 said:

Nah, it's a bug with shuriken + ragdoll, try using the sonicor with Ash's 1. It's broken.

will it literally work on an enemy that's under rag-doll CC effects then?

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

Just now, FlarmBlarg said:

will it literally work on an enemy that's under rag-doll CC effects then?

Yeah, so if you have an reliable way to ragdoll enemies, you can kill pretty much anything at lvl 100 with shuriken. It's one of the strongest bugs out there lol.

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

2 minutes ago, FlarmBlarg said:

will it literally work on an enemy that's under rag-doll CC effects then?

This for demonstration

https://youtu.be/JMwh3V64748

 

[ashrah]

On 11/27/2016 at 11:26 PM, SodapopKevin said:

Was playing around with the Ash rework, he's not bad but his kit feels like it could be improved upon to make him for fun so I thought maybe modify his ult a bit. Change the focus part into a toggle (which I call Assassin's presence).

 

While in ult mod you have a passive dodge chance and all your weapons become silenced and a modest energy drain per second. Also while in this model your Shuriken will act like focus mode currently does, marking targets with a second press throw out a shuriken to each target, staggering them, revealing their weaknesses to the team (similar to Banshee) and marking them for 10 seconds. If in the next 10 seconds you click off your 4th ability toggle you'll start teleporting around, slamming the embedded shurikens into the target's bodies for standard bleed and bladestorm damage.

 

I was having trouble thinking up other changes AP would have for his other abilities, but I think I have some fun ones. Teleport would be pretty similar, but while you have your toggle on your teleports would knock the teleport target to the ground, setting up a ground finisher. It seems like it would really fit the assassin theme. For smoke screen I had a few thoughts but couldn't really decide. One was Ash replaces his normal smoke with sleeping gas, stealthing him while knocking out enemies until they take damage or the duration of the CC expires. Another thought was giving it an increased duration, decreased cost, or a buff along the lines of a movement speed increase.

 

The rework seems like a good star, it would be fun to expand on him further and make him more active.

 

that is really nice idea

[FlarmBlarg]

Just now, (Xbox One)Angryspy101 said:

Yeah, so if you have an reliable way to ragdoll enemies, you can kill pretty much anything at lvl 100 with shuriken. It's one of the strongest bugs out there lol.

jesus I just used the hirudo to send them flying and shredded an enemy.. that's so dumb xD

[FlarmBlarg]

2 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Angryspy101 said:

This for demonstration

https://youtu.be/JMwh3V64748

 

if only ash's shuriken used less energy xD

[Shad0wWatcher]

On 11/27/2016 at 11:26 PM, SodapopKevin said:

Was playing around with the Ash rework, he's not bad but his kit feels like it could be improved upon to make him for fun so I thought maybe modify his ult a bit. Change the focus part into a toggle (which I call Assassin's presence).

 

While in ult mod you have a passive dodge chance and all your weapons become silenced and a modest energy drain per second. Also while in this model your Shuriken will act like focus mode currently does, marking targets with a second press throw out a shuriken to each target, staggering them, revealing their weaknesses to the team (similar to Banshee) and marking them for 10 seconds. If in the next 10 seconds you click off your 4th ability toggle you'll start teleporting around, slamming the embedded shurikens into the target's bodies for standard bleed and bladestorm damage.

 

I was having trouble thinking up other changes AP would have for his other abilities, but I think I have some fun ones. Teleport would be pretty similar, but while you have your toggle on your teleports would knock the teleport target to the ground, setting up a ground finisher. It seems like it would really fit the assassin theme. For smoke screen I had a few thoughts but couldn't really decide. One was Ash replaces his normal smoke with sleeping gas, stealthing him while knocking out enemies until they take damage or the duration of the CC expires. Another thought was giving it an increased duration, decreased cost, or a buff along the lines of a movement speed increase.

 

The rework seems like a good star, it would be fun to expand on him further and make him more active.

 

Dude that sounds pretty legit. Nicely thought out. Too bad DE is showing no signs of even waning to change anything about Ash. Tho...i vaguely remember them saying something about going back to Ash and checking what could be changed. But that was a long long time ago...so...hm....

[Nazrethim]

14 hours ago, FlarmBlarg said:

if only ash's shuriken used less energy xD

Actually, if you hit 2 targets, it's more efficient than Blade Storm.

2 targets for 25 energy for Shuriken, or 2 targets for 30(90) energy for Blade Storm.

Hence why under normal, non-buggy circumstances, at levels lower than 30 simply spamming Shuriken on crowds is way more efficient in terms of time, energy and interactivity than BS.

This bug reminds me of the "rolling ignite", in that it makes an already decent-to-good ability into a broken pwn ability.

[Neightrix]

14 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

Actually, if you hit 2 targets, it's more efficient than Blade Storm.

2 targets for 25 energy for Shuriken, or 2 targets for 30(90) energy for Blade Storm.

Hence why under normal, non-buggy circumstances, at levels lower than 30 simply spamming Shuriken on crowds is way more efficient in terms of time, energy and interactivity than BS.

This bug reminds me of the "rolling ignite", in that it makes an already decent-to-good ability into a broken pwn ability.

This has been my big hang up about Blade Storm - it is extremely slow. There are many, many great ideas in this thread... but I don't understand why, at a minimum, he cannot simply share targets with his clones as he did before, rather than having to attack every. single. one. The targeting already takes longer and is much more costly on energy than before (also compared to most ults in the game, especially Mesa). Having Ash attack every single enemy makes it more cinematic than it used to be. The attack speed is even capped so having more attack speed than Primed Fury does nothing. Please, if just one thing is changed, make the execution take less time.

[Nazrethim]

5 hours ago, Neightrix said:

This has been my big hang up about Blade Storm - it is extremely slow. There are many, many great ideas in this thread... but I don't understand why, at a minimum, he cannot simply share targets with his clones as he did before, rather than having to attack every. single. one. The targeting already takes longer and is much more costly on energy than before (also compared to most ults in the game, especially Mesa). Having Ash attack every single enemy makes it more cinematic than it used to be. The attack speed is even capped so having more attack speed than Primed Fury does nothing. Please, if just one thing is changed, make the execution take less time.

Here's the thing, current BS can be fixed if the following steps are made:

-BS marking mode is a 6-10s Duration based mode that costs 100 energy instead of a toggle.

-Marking reticle gets increased to 25º or so.

-Marking during it has no additional cost.

-Multimarking has no additional cost.

-Clones assist during execution so you get to see 1/4th or 1/3rd of the cutscenes.

 

Presto, ability fixed. What do you get? Almost exactly what Old BS was, except without getting stuck in cutscene for marking an Eximi.

 

Simply put, there isn't any way to fix Cutscene BladeStorm without going back to pre-nerf BS. The ability's problems are in it's core mechanics and no amount of buffs or nerfs will fix that. A proper rework is needed.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

3 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

Here's the thing, current BS can be fixed if the following steps are made:

-BS marking mode is a 6-10s Duration based mode that costs 100 energy instead of a toggle.

-Marking reticle gets increased to 25º or so.

-Marking during it has no additional cost.

-Multimarking has no additional cost.

-Clones assist during execution so you get to see 1/4th or 1/3rd of the cutscenes.

 

Presto, ability fixed. What do you get? Almost exactly what Old BS was, except without getting stuck in cutscene for marking an Eximi.

 

Simply put, there isn't any way to fix Cutscene BladeStorm without going back to pre-nerf BS. The ability's problems are in it's core mechanics and no amount of buffs or nerfs will fix that. A proper rework is needed.

Still one problem... other ppl will take his kills b4 he can activate bs

[Nazrethim]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

Still one problem... other ppl will take his kills b4 he can activate bs

I meant 6-10s as a te limit you have for marking. The ability would eithrr go off when you activate it again (much like current marking mode) or when the timer ends.

[-CG-Aurigio]

NEVER LET THIS THREAD DIE.

[Nazrethim]

Just now, GPDM said:

NEVER LET THIS THREAD DIE.

It will die the day DE sets right what they did wrong. Until then ninjas nevar die

[(PSN)Vexx757]

6 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

I meant 6-10s as a te limit you have for marking. The ability would eithrr go off when you activate it again (much like current marking mode) or when the timer ends.

Still, other ppl will take his kills.

[MrForz]

Il y a 6 heures, Nazrethim a dit :

It will die the day DE sets right what they did wrong. Until then ninjas nevar die

They do complain a whole lot though.

[Grave.Knight]

Meanwhile Mesa hits 4 and stares at enemies till they die.

Edited November 12, 2017 by Mifune013

[SodapopKevin]

On 11/9/2017 at 7:20 PM, Shad0wWatcher said:

Dude that sounds pretty legit. Nicely thought out. Too bad DE is showing no signs of even waning to change anything about Ash. Tho...i vaguely remember them saying something about going back to Ash and checking what could be changed. But that was a long long time ago...so...hm....

Thank you, this was such an old post i don't even remember making it hah. I think you are right, and it really is too bad. Ash has been a fav for the longest time and his deluxe skin is amazing, it really is quite disheartening that his abilities feel so dull and unrewarding.

[Regentlord]

The new Ash 4 is so bad, really disappointing nothing has been remedied.

It is the opposite of fun to use. I would even be happy if they made a more fun version of the ability, even if it was weaker (lol)

[ashrah]

i was just forget ash 4 its not practical at all to slow to setup... u will kill them faster with most melee wepons..

[Shad0wWatcher]

On 11/16/2017 at 8:56 AM, SodapopKevin said:

Thank you, this was such an old post i don't even remember making it hah. I think you are right, and it really is too bad. Ash has been a fav for the longest time and his deluxe skin is amazing, it really is quite disheartening that his abilities feel so dull and unrewarding.

When you put it like that, it almost sounds like they released the deluxe skin with the revisit just to ease the pain.

[Nazrethim]

11 hours ago, Shad0wWatcher said:

When you put it like that, it almost sounds like they released the deluxe skin with the revisit just to ease the pain.

Or, considering they took nine freaking months for the shody revisit what happened was that they just of half forgot the revisit because they were busy makking Nidus and the TWW or whatever, the art team showed up with the deluxe skin ready, and they just said "scr*w it!" and released it the way it is hoping that dangling a shiny skin would distract players. Of course, it didn't work once players sat to do the math and actually play with the thing.

[Shad0wWatcher]

11 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

Or, considering they took nine freaking months for the shody revisit what happened was that they just of half forgot the revisit because they were busy makking Nidus and the TWW or whatever, the art team showed up with the deluxe skin ready, and they just said "scr*w it!" and released it the way it is hoping that dangling a shiny skin would distract players. Of course, it didn't work once players sat to do the math and actually play with the thing.

Nobody knows but them friend. And maybe we should try to look at it a bit from their perspective...whatever that might be. The fact that DE keeps aiming to impress us and to make sure that we, as their playerbase are always happy with the content, mistakes happen, sure they seem to happen pretty often when it comes to Ash, sometimes due to forgetfulness. It can happen, comes with the stress of being the game developers that created 1 of the most popular games on the internet. 

Us constantly b*tching about Ash's bladestorm is starting to make me think that it's not gonna make them change anything. And while i am not completely happy about his bladestorm, i've come to accept the change, an rather than complaining about it, it's better to see how to work around the problem and fix it yourself in any way you currently can. Of course...giving constructive feedback is important, especially if a mistake is made. Wanting something to be corrected is important, especially if it's a mistake made with your own "go-to-frame". But i've seen comments here that just seem unnecessary. I'll hold off on naming them. You on the other hand @Nazrethim have constantly been pointing out the flaws of this current bladestorm, which is a good thing to do, and you come with possible solutions, props to you for that. But a lot of people seem to just not want that. Wonder why that is (this is a legit question), cause i dig the ideas. Tho it might be cause the cinematics in bladestorm are just so unique and iconic to Ash that changing that might make him seem like a mix between Excalibur and Valkyr. idk if people even want that. All i want is for them to look into it again. To at least know they gave it a fair amount of thought. Cause it still seems like they didn't... But i digress. Stress man...stress is a b*tch, i know the feeling. It lets you make mistakes when you least expect it.

I've been rambling on for a while now...so much that i lost track of what i was trying to say here xD

[Nazrethim]

1 hour ago, Shad0wWatcher said:

Nobody knows but them friend. And maybe we should try to look at it a bit from their perspective...whatever that might be. The fact that DE keeps aiming to impress us and to make sure that we, as their playerbase are always happy with the content, mistakes happen, sure they seem to happen pretty often when it comes to Ash, sometimes due to forgetfulness. It can happen, comes with the stress of being the game developers that created 1 of the most popular games on the internet. 

I understand. But then they come up just 2 months later with Nidus, one of the best designed frames. 3 months later Limbo gets changed for good. Then Oberon is made viable. Then Hydroid is made viable. And Hydroid himself gets several on the fly hotfixes that correct design flaws the rework has. Ash took them nine months to give SS an easy QoL change, make BS garbage (despite Marking Mode being terrible been pointed out MONTHS in advance by players) and the unbroken silence about if they are going to fix the mess or not, really makes one go mad.

The revisited Ash for the wrong reasons. They did it to shut up the whiners who complained about Ash bladespamming everything and locking eximi alive in animations, and ignored the actual fans of the frame.

1 hour ago, Shad0wWatcher said:

Us constantly b*tching about Ash's bladestorm is starting to make me think that it's not gonna make them change anything. And while i am not completely happy about his bladestorm, i've come to accept the change, an rather than complaining about it, it's better to see how to work around the problem and fix it yourself in any way you currently can. Of course...giving constructive feedback is important, especially if a mistake is made. Wanting something to be corrected is important, especially if it's a mistake made with your own "go-to-frame". But i've seen comments here that just seem unnecessary. I'll hold off on naming them. You on the other hand @Nazrethim have constantly been pointing out the flaws of this current bladestorm, which is a good thing to do, and you come with possible solutions, props to you for that. But a lot of people seem to just not want that. Wonder why that is (this is a legit question), cause i dig the ideas. Tho it might be cause the cinematics in bladestorm are just so unique and iconic to Ash that changing that might make him seem like a mix between Excalibur and Valkyr. idk if people even want that. All i want is for them to look into it again. To at least know they gave it a fair amount of thought. Cause it still seems like they didn't... But i digress. Stress man...stress is a b*tch, i know the feeling. It lets you make mistakes when you least expect it.

I've been rambling on for a while now...so much that i lost track of what i was trying to say here xD

Yet you said it correct.

Regarding Ash there are seemingly two kinds of feedback: bring back press4towin, usually as world on bladestorm or "just let the clones do evr'thin", and people who understand that both old p42w and current are bad by design and we need something new, and tackle that with creative ideas. Both agree that his other abilities need a look too, but not exactly in which form.

My problem (I think) is that, while I give constructive feedback and point the correct flaws, I'm just going insane and becoming abrasive (mostly due to dealing with jerks who try to convince me BS isn't garbage because "with X super specific and expensive/verydififculttoget build BS works just fine!" which is another way of saying "I won't say this ability is sh*T because stacking multiple broken mechanics together makes it goodish").

I would have gone insane long ago if it wasn't for this:

Spoiler

I'm one of the dancers :D