I was doing some math and figured out issues.

[ValorOfArms777]

Corrosive Projection: Math on this mod is proving 2 sides. It's in itself a infinity scale mod thus also superior to almost every mod in game. The only Rival being a 9 Mod point Steel Charge which if polarity provides a 18 point vs 14. (4 points higher mod point give out).

Due to foes armor infinity scaling we choose to always cut it out with a 4 CP or a 3 CP with 4 Coaction Drifts. It's noticeable that our own armor may not scale to impeccable heights which is fine and all but theirs does. Down to it it can reach a point we deal -0 damage-. Armor Breaking effects are nice and all but any way to bust it down like HP (the only one is a melee mod but even that isn't really effective as if you need to remove -6 each blow you kinda are not doing much more before they die) Corrosive damage be great but...you know...CP already did it's job. CP also effects Infested/Grineer heavily in the first place. Why even bother taking it off? why even choose other choices unless it's a Armor Bypass? There isn't any choice. It's a superior choice on 95% of damage worth.

Solution: Drop it's effective decrease to 10% per copy. so max hits at 40%. This evens out the Mod slotting choices to think about armor breaking. Next Add a "Hard Cap" of Armor worth for the enemy at least of 75% reduced damage with armor so their infinity scale does not make us deal 0 damage ever.

Next is Crit Building: Your Blood Rush Mod has dominated pretty much most archtypes in the game. Heck your whole Crit VS status chance...comes heavily that people just want the highest format damage to 1 shot things to 2 shot. Now Endless vs Non Endless is a thing. But really if you want diversity of builds. You have to adjust the numeric growth of some mods and their benefits. It's not too harsh to downscale some of these a bit while up scaling a few others.

Mods that need a upscale are along the lines of
Rifle Aptitude/Shotgun Savvy/Sure Shot/Melee Prowess
 

I understand rarity etc. but there is so much issues with certain choices we have making many mods irreverent choices.

Next was I noticed how Ivara is pretty nice to play but Frames like Excalibur/Wukong and Especially Valkyr feel all distinctly "meh" 
Their #4 feels each not Unique at all in use just a swich my mod to kill it all mod nothing too fancy nothing to unique from using my basic stuff. Go into a  Melee Mode put away my weapon drain my energy tada. And Valkyr feels like...nothing but a cluster of "meh" I don't even care for invincibility on her. It feels like a bandage of a ability that could outright be tweaked to much more fun usages than "I drain energy so fast and cut people so much" Eternal War build outright just is how you would build her anyways. No need to use a Zipline cause it's augment is meh and it as a ability has not really piratical use anybody cares to use cause "Bullet Jumping etc."

If she had no invincibility had increased Armor rate/Innate 50% damage reduction with a increase in damages if she takes damage that make it feel like a berserk.
If her Zipline "Did" a usage of more than a crappy CC gimmic sure I use it. It's outright just faster to slide attack with her than anything else than use her finisher stun. all in all her kit is messy and sloppy. Needs better numerical Touches.

If came down to Excal and Wukong...why do I continually Drain Energy? Why not charge me per slash just like Ivara's bow? Really wouldn't change much and even out their superior damage outputs.

Basics are these things feel wonky or copy pasted from 1 frame to another.

 

Side note:
I'm in for a unique experience per frame I have even the Idea of having some stuff activate upon the start of channeled abilities. Like Excalibur Forming the blade could initiate a Large Blade slash forward beam upon it's initialize. Wukong could sweep the room with his staff. Ember could cause the Area around her to spray fire and make that ground start zone molten. Mesa/Banshee seems fine themselves.

I wish I could more visually see AoE stuff. and how far I made it "reach" Even adding the energy color to the extended Reach of our Melee Weapons etc. Cause I look at Ember Fireball/Frost Freeze and similar abilities. They don't show the direct change of their AoE effects. Heck I don't even feel like I'm throwing a ball of fire. No epic eruption of flame burst. Though I see it's AoE effect rooms I do not see it's effective area in a visual sense and feels...lame. Updating things like this visually and mechanically be very appreciative too.

Edited November 28, 2016 by ValorOfArms777

[taiiat]

7 minutes ago, ValorOfArms777 said:

Down to it it can reach a point we deal 0 damage.

Next Add a "Hard Cap" of Armor worth for the enemy at least of 75% reduced damage with armor so their infinity scale does not make us deal 0 damage ever.

Ripline isn't useful

this is mathematically impossible, but can happen eventually if you have very low Damage on your Weapons and the Armor is high enough for it to round down to zero i guess.... but that's way out of the playable range of the game. way out.

in the current formula, that would mean Enemies would stop scaling at like.... Lv40? maybe Lv30.

Ripline is great for Mobility, because you can use it and Parkour at the same time. either to drastically speed up the start, and end of your Parkour movements.
ragdolling a Target is useful.

 

[The__Q]

4 minutes ago, taiiat said:

 

in the current formula, that would mean Enemies would stop scaling at like.... Lv40? maybe Lv30.

They wouldn't stop scaling in damage and hp, however.

[ValorOfArms777]

Just now, taiiat said:

this is mathematically impossible, but can happen eventually if you have very low Damage on your Weapons and the Armor is high enough for it to round down to zero i guess.... but that's way out of the playable range of the game. way out.

in the current formula, that would mean Enemies would stop scaling at like.... Lv40? maybe Lv30.

Ripline is great for Mobility, because you can use it and Parkour at the same time. either to drastically speed up the start, and end of your Parkour movements.
ragdolling a Target is useful.

Well yes Rip line isn't worthless but it isn't really what you care to use. Let alone a incentive to want to use it at all. Next not entirely true of the armor issue. You start feeling armor hit your weapons REALLY hard. and if you hard cap 75% reduction of armor it controls the need of CP but retains armors effectiveness. Cause armor scales infinit it does indeed get to a point we want to work around it. and Most people are enforcing still CP build loads as the superior choice. cause CP inf scales cause Armor Inf Scales. It adds more viable choices like activating Corrosive Proc. than outright removing armor 100% which is...lame.

 

[Abenoki]

52 minutes ago, ValorOfArms777 said:

Well yes Rip line isn't worthless but it isn't really what you care to use. Let alone a incentive to want to use it at all. Next not entirely true of the armor issue. You start feeling armor hit your weapons REALLY hard. and if you hard cap 75% reduction of armor it controls the need of CP but retains armors effectiveness. Cause armor scales infinit it does indeed get to a point we want to work around it. and Most people are enforcing still CP build loads as the superior choice. cause CP inf scales cause Armor Inf Scales. It adds more viable choices like activating Corrosive Proc. than outright removing armor 100% which is...lame.

 

Maybe not 75%, closer to 90 I'll agree to but 75% send a bit low to me even with massive amounts of health 75 isn't enough protection and a good crit will kill an enemy out right if not still 2 shots

Edited November 28, 2016 by Echoa

[Kyronz]

What mod would you replace it with, or should it join the rest of the pointless and useless auras just because you don't like playing past 10 minutes and hate people who do?

[StinkyPygmy]

I prefer rejuvination and energy siphon cause in my experience CP isn't even necessary till beyond lvl 100 mobs and at that stage you're playing with fire anyway.

CP really isn't all its cracked up to be so I find this change unnecessary. I'd rather see scaling fixed properly but that will happen on the far side of never.

[EmptyDevil]

2 minutes ago, Kyronz said:

What mod would you replace it with, or should it join the rest of the pointless and useless auras just because you don't like playing past 10 minutes and hate people who do?

Did you have a stroke or something? How did you miss the part where OP said the enemy's armor would have to get capped too?

[taiiat]

1 hour ago, ValorOfArms777 said:

Next not entirely true of the armor issue. You start feeling armor hit your weapons REALLY hard.

which has nothing to do with that Armor is mathematically incapable of reaching 100%. and i repeat, that maybe you could round down to 0 if you took off the Mods from your Weapon and also partially reduced your Damage, while facing like Lv5000+ Armored Enemies.

Enemy Armor reaches >95% before you even reach Sortie Level Enemies, soooooooo. Lv40 Enemies are easily over 90% Damage Reduction, and yet those Enemies only feel slightly durable?

[Tesseract7777]

One thing here is definitely true from the OP: 

Enemy armor scaling needs to be nerfed, and along with that, Corrosive Projection also needs a small nerf, to make it more a mod for augmented armor sorties, or just an actual preference, instead of being the be all end all. 

The other auras will never shine as long as enemy armor scaling is broken even if it were nerfed. And nerfing it without fixing enemy armor means people would just slot other abilities/augments that could totally strip armor, because of how broken armor scaling is. 

But they are aware of the problem, and I got the impression from the last couple dev streams that they are actively trying to figure out that issue, and that it is tied to damage 3.0 

[Kyronz]

2 hours ago, EmptyDevil said:

Did you have a stroke or something? How did you miss the part where OP said the enemy's armor would have to get capped too?

Not a bit, it is just to normalize nerfs...yeah, make bring CP to any mission useless is the OP goal.   Take a look at de from end of CB to about a year ago, now look again...they are actively against players in a game which they want us to spend money.

We have gone a year with pathetic and recycled events, because TWW..which was a huge cash grab.  Believe what you want, but follow the trend and you will be less disappointed.

 

On reflection it was about a year ago they were bought out and being a good game likely became a secondary consideration too revenue.

Edited November 28, 2016 by Kyronz
grammar

[PossiblyMG]

3 hours ago, StinkyPygmy said:

I prefer rejuvination and energy siphon cause in my experience CP isn't even necessary till beyond lvl 100 mobs and at that stage you're playing with fire anyway.

Energy siphon is too slow in 95% of cases though, and rejuvenation is simply replaceable by mediray and life strike

[----Fenrir----]

5 hours ago, ValorOfArms777 said:

Solution: Drop it's effective decrease to 10% per copy. so max hits at 40%. This evens out the Mod slotting choices to think about armor breaking. Next Add a "Hard Cap" of Armor worth for the enemy at least of 75% reduced damage with armor so their infinity scale does not make us deal 0 damage ever.
 

For a 10% CP aura to be useful they would have to complete re-balance armor scaling. Because currently it would be basically useless. A lvl 100 Bombard for example has around 12.000 armor which gives damage reduction in the 90% area. Take 40% away from that and it changes were little and you are still looking at around 90% damage reduction by armor.

The reason why CP is used so much is not just because it is so good. But because most of the other auras are so bad. CP, Energy Siphon, and Steel Charge are imho the only good auras and most of the others are really really bad and need buffs desperately.

[Kyronz]

5 minutes ago, ----Fenrir---- said:

For a 10% CP aura to be useful they would have to complete re-balance armor scaling. Because currently it would be basically useless. A lvl 100 Bombard for example has around 12.000 armor which gives damage reduction in the 90% area. Take 40% away from that and it changes were little and you are still looking at around 90% damage reduction by armor.

The reason why CP is used so much is not just because it is so good. But because most of the other auras are so bad. CP, Energy Siphon, and Steel Charge are imho the only good auras and most of the others are really really bad and need buffs desperately.

with fissures they have introduced nullifiers into all factions, making melee frame useless at mid and high end, they can still some what survive the grind to 30 and vendoring.

We will never know why because they say so much, yet never follow through on anything.

[----Fenrir----]

1 hour ago, Kyronz said:

with fissures they have introduced nullifiers into all factions, making melee frame useless at mid and high end

Why? In my opinion melee is the least affected by nullifiers. You can just enter the bubble and slaughter them. And thanks to Shadow Step they can not even see you. It's for people with low fire rate weapons that nullifier are the most annoying. Bows have become a whole lot less useful thanks to nullifiers now basically being introduced to all factions.

Edited November 28, 2016 by ----Fenrir----

[ranks21]

I have never used cp on none of my frames and have always did just fine without. to me cp is a crutch mod that many cant go past. i'll exclusively use energy siphon or rejuvi due to my excaliber+ 300% finisher damage style of play I choose to relish in.

nowadays, it's very hard to find hardcore players that likes to go beyond level 300 to actually test their builds on how effective it is.

since like a few weeks of starting to play this game 3 yrs ago, I have always wondered whats stopping DE to implement a "choose your level" starting point for players as myself that (a) don't have the luxury of time and (b) want to play at or above the level  I feel my weapons and gears can handle. this is long overdue for this type of game, especially when you just want to get that warframe nostalgic feeling without going 2+ hrs just to get there.

[StinkyPygmy]

7 hours ago, Maseguad_il_Belo said:

Energy siphon is too slow in 95% of cases though, and rejuvenation is simply replaceable by mediray and life strike

Eh I dunno I find ES does its job well enough. But I also have restores as a back up if absolutely needed and theres no other options available. See I run Energy siphion on caster frames like banshee etc and also normally have QT slotted. I run Rejuv on tanky frames like saryn that I put rage on because I rely on taking damage at times. Rejuv helps out with that. Although I still don't have LS (Starting to doubt it exists, its a myth) and I don't have medi ray.

Sure, there are plenty of other options, some more efficient then others, but ultimately in the scheme of things I don't find CP as mandatory or as nessicary as people believe. Is 4x CP good? Definitely. It can make it possible to push things a lot further for those obscenely long runs into broken scaling territory where balance went out the window long ago. But is it actually necessary before the lvl100 mark? Not really, unless you are an extreme masochist and decided to bring a lato along to the party. Thats why I personally would rather use literally any other aura then CP for play some what still in the realms of balance. 

That is why I would rather see a complete rework of WF's scaling issue (which has been a hole DE dug long ago and is now very deep in) from thr ground up rather then one just based on fiddling around with CP. Cause lets face it, unless you want to screw around with lvl 200+ mobs, its not actually that great.

[PossiblyMG]

12 hours ago, StinkyPygmy said:

Eh I dunno I find ES does its job well enough. But I also have restores as a back up if absolutely needed and theres no other options available. See I run Energy siphion on caster frames like banshee etc and also normally have QT slotted. I run Rejuv on tanky frames like saryn that I put rage on because I rely on taking damage at times. Rejuv helps out with that. Although I still don't have LS (Starting to doubt it exists, its a myth) and I don't have medi ray.

Sure, there are plenty of other options, some more efficient then others, but ultimately in the scheme of things I don't find CP as mandatory or as nessicary as people believe. Is 4x CP good? Definitely. It can make it possible to push things a lot further for those obscenely long runs into broken scaling territory where balance went out the window long ago. But is it actually necessary before the lvl100 mark? Not really, unless you are an extreme masochist and decided to bring a lato along to the party. Thats why I personally would rather use literally any other aura then CP for play some what still in the realms of balance. 

That is why I would rather see a complete rework of WF's scaling issue (which has been a hole DE dug long ago and is now very deep in) from thr ground up rather then one just based on fiddling around with CP. Cause lets face it, unless you want to screw around with lvl 200+ mobs, its not actually that great.

ES is so slow that on an ability that costs 25 energy with maximum efficiency, you'd still have to wait over 40 seconds until you can recast it. It's just plain out bad for a fast-paced game, just use Zenurik

If you feel the need to use rejuvenation on TANKY frames that's even worse because they benefit more from arcane grace, and don't give me that "But grace is expensive" type of bullS#&$, you've seen the market lately

Also 1 CP is more effective below level 100 than it is beyond level 100 because of how quickly the damage reduction curves out. If an enemy had like 6000 armor, taking away 1800 armor will simply allow you to deal like 2% extra damage, whereas at lower levels reducing 600 armor to 420 armor makes a significant difference in damage output

 

[ValorOfArms777]

I think a NON lazy overhaul is needed. I agree.
I been here since the original parkour. (Mind you I miss wall running with the sparks)

[xXx_mtv_xXx]

Did he just propose a nerf to CP? Really?

[StinkyPygmy]

3 hours ago, Maseguad_il_Belo said:

ES is so slow that on an ability that costs 25 energy with maximum efficiency, you'd still have to wait over 40 seconds until you can recast it. It's just plain out bad for a fast-paced game, just use Zenurik

If you feel the need to use rejuvenation on TANKY frames that's even worse because they benefit more from arcane grace, and don't give me that "But grace is expensive" type of bullS#&$, you've seen the market lately

Also 1 CP is more effective below level 100 than it is beyond level 100 because of how quickly the damage reduction curves out. If an enemy had like 6000 armor, taking away 1800 armor will simply allow you to deal like 2% extra damage, whereas at lower levels reducing 600 armor to 420 armor makes a significant difference in damage output

 

I'm not 100% sure you actually understood my comment. I never said I felt the need for any of those things. I simply said CP isn't mandatory or as necessary as some believe before lvl100 mobs because of the endless amounts of weapons out there that can mash them just fine. Especially ones that can stack corrosive procs faster then sonic on cocaine. 

I don't own grace because i couldn't care less about arcanes, haven't been lucky with raids, and I'd rather not waste plat on something I do just fine without. I'll play however I damn well please. I've been at this for long enough and tested a large enough variety of weapons out at high levels to know that unless its something around the lvl100 mark or you bring a mk-1 paris, you can do just fine without CP. In fact, when I take banshee to high level stuff with a squad I DON't bring CP and I bring ES instead (unless theirs a trin that wont rambo it on the otherside of the map) because I actually keeps my energy stable as I don't have to spam sonar as much with resonance active. Giving me more time for ES to work. 12xdmg is no joke and is only limited by the players weapons dmg output. ES is really only less functional if you spam ablilitys constantly, which I often don't need to.

I repeat, I have zero issues with CP. It does its job and is powerful. Its just not as useful to me for regular play because armor or not, pretty much everything is dead in a second or two regardless. Ergo, I'd rather my passive energy regen or health rejen then being able to arbitrarily reduce enemy armor that isn't even high enough to matter in the first place.

[Insizer]

4 hours ago, Maseguad_il_Belo said:

ES is so slow that on an ability that costs 25 energy with maximum efficiency, you'd still have to wait over 40 seconds until you can recast it. It's just plain out bad for a fast-paced game, just use Zenurik

[Extroah]

On 11/28/2016 at 2:14 AM, ValorOfArms777 said:

Next was I noticed how Ivara is pretty nice to play but Frames like Excalibur/Wukong and Especially Valkyr feel all distinctly "meh" 

Their #4 feels each not Unique at all in use just a swich my mod to kill it all mod nothing too fancy nothing to unique from using my basic stuff. Go into a  Melee Mode put away my weapon drain my energy tada. And Valkyr feels like...nothing but a cluster of "meh" I don't even care for invincibility on her. It feels like a bandage of a ability that could outright be tweaked to much more fun usages than "I drain energy so fast and cut people so much" Eternal War build outright just is how you would build her anyways. No need to use a Zipline cause it's augment is meh and it as a ability has not really piratical use anybody cares to use cause "Bullet Jumping etc."

If came down to Excal and Wukong...why do I continually Drain Energy? Why not charge me per slash just like Ivara's bow? Really wouldn't change much and even out their superior damage outputs.

Basics are these things feel wonky or copy pasted from 1 frame to another.

 

Side note:
I'm in for a unique experience per frame I have even the Idea of having some stuff activate upon the start of channeled abilities. Like Excalibur Forming the blade could initiate a Large Blade slash forward beam upon it's initialize. Wukong could sweep the room with his staff. Ember could cause the Area around her to spray fire and make that ground start zone molten. Mesa/Banshee seems fine themselves.

I wish I could more visually see AoE stuff. and how far I made it "reach" Even adding the energy color to the extended Reach of our Melee Weapons etc. Cause I look at Ember Fireball/Frost Freeze and similar abilities. They don't show the direct change of their AoE effects. Heck I don't even feel like I'm throwing a ball of fire. No epic eruption of flame burst. Though I see it's AoE effect rooms I do not see it's effective area in a visual sense and feels...lame. Updating things like this visually and mechanically be very appreciative too.

 

Wha...I've been using Excal as my main for almost 4 Years now and if your only complaint is "Exalted Blade is too OP but not unique" then you were using Excal for the wrong reasons in the first place, maybe even the wrong way. I personally never use EB, not even when playing Sorties with him, they are not OP and not very fun/usefull imho. Excals 1-3 are awesome, though. Slash Dash is overlooked and pretty good and fun to use, Radial Blind is a very, very good CC and can even be combined with Slash Dash or Radial Javelin. And Radial Javelin is fun on lower level/easy missions.

Though i agree with the AoE effects. We had something like that a while back with NVidia PhysX effects, but they are disabled for now. I think many people didn't like them?

 

[Sziklamester]

Some auras need to be buffed and changed but I think that the CP not as mandatory as others think. I am using steel charge and rejuv mostly but I think auras like rejuv and siphon should be passive ability of the armor Just keep on this level. Siphon need 1 Energy per sec level because outdated. Physique should be more meaningful than It is currently and auras like speed boost and holster speed should be buffed and give the same amount of mod cap than the others because of fairness and dont let mods in the mud. Before all they need to do some balance and buff the older weapons slightly then nerf the enemy armor scaling and equally boost our armor and hp/shield slightly. Then we can Talk about the difficulity levels for newbies and vets.

 

 

 

[WindigoTG]

On 28.11.2016 at 2:36 PM, Kyronz said:

with fissures they have introduced nullifiers into all factions, making melee frame useless at mid and high end, they can still some what survive the grind to 30 and vendoring.

How do nullifiers make melee useless exactly?