The Queens: A theory.

[Night4ce]

I'm at work and I started pondering on some of the lore and what the Head Queen said and something fumbled into thought.. I don't think the Queen is the original Queen.. She treats her twin sister like a lower life form, knows the Dax honor code and vows, knows the true nature of the Warframe and the Tenno who pull the strings, has a sense of elegance to functionality for equipment, claims to have given the Tenno their power and can take them away  AND wants to take a newer more beautiful body.. I think the Queen is a Orokin counselor/judge who managed to survive the end of the Orokin era by stealing the Grineer body and posing as Grineer. Any thoughts or corrections? Am I the only one thinking this or is this common knowledge?

[Gran_Maw_Sigmus]

Uh... I thought it was made pretty clear that the Queens are both Orokin who are using Grineer bodies to prolongue their lives, but are still the original queens.

There were never true Grineer Queens, only the Orokin.

[Omekah]

Just now, Gran_Maw_Sigmus said:

Uh... I thought it was made pretty clear that the Queens are both Orokin who are using Grineer bodies to prolongue their lives, but are still the original queens.

There were never true Grineer Queens, only the Orokin.

Yeah, that's what I was sure it implied -(Based on the Kuria poem)- Orokin who were shunned for having the same face, and became slaves to the Orokin like the Grineer. But the Grineer looked to them for leadership, and that's how they became their masters.

[Night4ce]

25 minutes ago, Gran_Maw_Sigmus said:

Uh... I thought it was made pretty clear that the Queens are both Orokin who are using Grineer bodies to prolongue their lives, but are still the original queens.

There were never true Grineer Queens, only the Orokin.

But the claim to have given the Tenno their power.. No grunt worker could have ordered the experiment with the Zariman 10-0. That would be something approved by the council.. The queen wanted to change bodies, so I'm sure the Orokin counselor forfeit his original beautiful body to take over the Grineer body in order to survive the Orokin witch hunt at the end of the Orokin era.

 

*Ment to quote DarkOmegaGamer damn phone..

Edited December 2, 2016 by Night4ce
Mistake in quoting.

[Omekah]

5 minutes ago, Night4ce said:

But the claim to have given the Tenno their power.. No grunt worker could have ordered the experiment with the Zariman 10-0. That would be something approved by the council.. The queen wanted to change bodies, so I'm sure the Orokin counselor forfeit his original beautiful body to take over the Grineer body in order to survive the Orokin witch hunt at the end of the Orokin era.

 

*Ment to quote DarkOmegaGamer damn phone..

I don't think their claim to have given the Tenno power was meant literal. The Orokin gave the Tenno their power is what she was going for, and since she's Orokin, by association, she gave them power.

[Pavelord]

15 minutes ago, Night4ce said:

But the claim to have given the Tenno their power.. No grunt worker could have ordered the experiment with the Zariman 10-0.

didn´t the queen mentioned she gave them their metal cyst?, as in their warframes, they did not mentioned anything about the Zariman, nor void powers. The Zariman as we know is still consider as an accident.

We know the queens were rejected to a degree, and we know the tenno executed the emperors, not the rest of the orokin population. And we know that orokin technology was dna coded, so only certain individuals could acces it. The tenno destroy the orokin apparatus by removing the ones who could acces it, the grinner made with the ones who had minor acces.

Seems to me a plausible scenario that the grineer took as their liders, these orokin rejected orokin twins that could acces part of the orokin technology, and if their somewhat involved with the warframes, seems to me they had some arquimidean level of autorithy at the very least.

In the mountain pass  we saw the amount of skeletons, those probably  give an idea of how much bodies did the orokin had to exchange to maintain their lives, changing from body to body until only grineer were left, so makes sense that the grineer are in a race to cure their degrading bodies.

[Sziklamester]

Goaulds.

[Sziklamester]

Goaulds.

[Night4ce]

From my understanding the Zariman was a military ship as mentioned in the Ember Prime codex. So why were civilians on board? I think the Orokin hide a secret and erased any records they could to cover up a secret experiment.. one that brought about kids with "demonic powers".. Of course they would want to have the kids executed to hide their sin but instead used them to (for a little while) save them from the Infested and Sentients.

[Night4ce]

Not to mention Alad V. was called an Orokin by Hunhow. So it could be a possibility some of the Orokin counsel are still alive and in hiding.

 

Edit: Don't think I'm arguing with anyone please. I like hearing what other think happened or what could be. Debates are healthy and can bring more insight to the topic, I love learning more about the lore of Warframe and hearing theories!

Edited December 2, 2016 by Night4ce

[Ailissa]

It's been made pretty obvious the Queens were Orokin, not really a theory. 

[JalakBali]

7 hours ago, Night4ce said:

Not to mention Alad V. was called an Orokin by Hunhow. So it could be a possibility some of the Orokin counsel are still alive and in hiding.

Alad V is Corpus. The Corpus descended from the Orokin, but likely lower ranks/castes. I doubt Hunhow cared whether the Corpus is technically Orokin or not. To him, they're genetically the same thus the same people.

 

The mention of "we gave you your metal cyst" is interesting because it focused on the warframe itself. It's possible the Queens' original source was an Archemedian, the scientists and inventors of the Orokin society. They also managed to control the Kuva staff that controls the Dax so that is Orokin tech. And Orokin tech is locked by genetic signature. So the Queens' genes must be that of high ranking Orokin, higher than the Dax, who were the elite soldiers/guards of the Orokin empire, before the Tenno were formed.

[Evanescent]

if they are truly Orokin, why can Teshin slice her head off? Don't the Dax have specific rules imposed on them to never harm the Orokin?

[Beggining]

20 minutes ago, Evanescent said:

if they are truly Orokin, why can Teshin slice her head off? Don't the Dax have specific rules imposed on them to never harm the Orokin?

The staff and the Kuva seem to be the 'specific rule'. Recall Teshin's word at the end, when we have stolen the scepter from the Elder Kween:

"A chance to kill you, and now I have it."

[Brasten]

It's fairly clear to me that the Queens are the same Twins from the Kuria poem. Which, even though they were rejected by the top level of Orokin society and shunned, were still Orokin Elites. Post fall of the Orokin Empire, the Queens started using Yuvan (powered by Kuva) to transfer their minds/essence to Grineer bodies instead of some other non-clone humans. 

People keep misremembering the Queen's statement...

Quote

For you see, child, we conceived of these ugly, metal cysts. We gave you your precious gifts. And now, just as easily, we take them all away!

Note! She never says power. She says precious gifts. Which gifts are these? The Warframe Project and Transference. It is a statement born of arrogance, and the assumption of person who turned accident victims into Weapons, without fully understanding what had happened on the Zariman.

There were two projects running at the same time on Lua. Archimedian Margulus was looking after the frozen Zariman children. And some kind of Infested War Golem project that a man named Davis was working on. Davis lets a prototype lose one purpose, which leads to the discovery of Transference, even with the Zariman kids in functional stasis.

Now my assumption before TWW was that Executor Ballas was the overseer of the Infested War Golem project. However this may not have been the case. It is possible the Twins were the originators of the Infested War Golems. Or more likely the Queen was speaking in the plural, that the Orokin Elite Cast as a group backed the Infested War Golems... and later the Tenno project, that combined the Golems with the Zariman children.

As an Orokin Elite, who 'allowed the children to live and play with their metal surrogates', the Queen was due our body. Ya know, cause Elite Cast privilege.

9 hours ago, Night4ce said:

Not to mention Alad V. was called an Orokin by Hunhow. So it could be a possibility some of the Orokin counsel are still alive and in hiding.

Hunhow calls all people of the Origin system Orokin. It's Germans, French, and Romanians... "Europeans". He doesn't see differences in the lesser creatures, not like the Sentients and the Tenno who almost stood on his level. Corpus, Grineer, Colonial, Dax, Archimedian, Sectarus, or Executor. Whatever the title if you were a human or human variant that was once part of the Orokin Empire... you are Orokin to Hunhow. If I recall the Natah quest Hunhow also calls Teshin an Orokin, which is correct from Hunhows point of view, as Teshin is a Dax.

1 hour ago, Evanescent said:

if they are truly Orokin, why can Teshin slice her head off? Don't the Dax have specific rules imposed on them to never harm the Orokin?

They didn't have Orokin bodies anymore, for a start. They had Grineer cloned bodies, and they were never Executors. Dax could very much kill other lower class Orokin. They were often used as enforcers of the Orokin Executors Congress. The Staff is functionally a backup authority point, a way for Exectuors to give Sectarus cast and lower command authority over the Dax. I'd assume that recognized Executors were safe from Dax just as base rule. However Sectarus class were not, see Guardsman Synth entry. And it is likely that the Queens were Sectarus at best, just a step down from Executors. Still societal elites, but not top ruling class Executors.

Edited December 2, 2016 by Brasten

[Blakrana]

52 minutes ago, Evanescent said:

if they are truly Orokin, why can Teshin slice her head off? Don't the Dax have specific rules imposed on them to never harm the Orokin?

Technically his 'Oath eternal' is to obey whomever wields the Scepter and Kuva. No staff or Kuva, no authority of command.

Though I'm willing to bet higher tier Orokin, namely the Executors, had a much stronger method to command Dax obedience beyond a fancy stick and a bottle of goo. Does however raise the interesting spectre of Dax soldiers working to undermine their Orokin charges in what little means they could should they be dissatisfied with their conduct.

As for the matter of 'Your precious gifts', it's clearly in reference to the Transference and Warframe technologies. It's not an insubstantial feat all told, how much the Orokin invested into the Tenno and Warframe Project once it suited them. And it does raise an interesting question on what resistance from the Tenno during the Orokin era proper could have meant if they weren't careful. There's certainly more information to be had before we have the full picture...but Tenno owe the Orokin everything when it comes to the fundamentals of their hardware and equipment.

Whilst on the other hand, their survival of Zariman 10-0, is something unique to them and their encounter with the Void. Whether that's a matter of debt or not as well, remains to be seen.

[(PSN)obsidiancurse]

54 minutes ago, Beggining said:

The staff and the Kuva seem to be the 'specific rule'. Recall Teshin's word at the end, when we have stolen the scepter from the Elder Kween:

"A chance to kill you, and now I have it."

I imagine that originally the Daxs fealty would have been ensured by Orokin genes or pheromones etc but as the Queens now inhabit Grineer flesh then yes, the staff/Kuva was the last thing keeping Teshin in check.

the Queens are markedly different in terms of maturity though, Harley-queen acting her physical age rather than her mental age. Now this is either incredibly bad writing, the characters being defined by their appearance rather than who they really are or it throws out some interesting questions about continuity. Does it regress you to a child? Is that why one Queen is so much older, they have to take continuity in turns, forever passing old knowledge back and forth between themselves, mother becoming daughter becoming mother, on and on through eternity? And are the writers drawing parallels with the Tenno, who seem to have regressed themselves since awakening?

[PepsilonEagle]

Uh, the worm queen really doesn't act her physical age, if you look at a clear shot she's actually even more wrinkled than the now-former scepter bearer, which kind of seems to further support the theory that only one was actually Orokin and using a Grineer to take advantage of the story in the Kuria poems that may or may not have actually happened (remember Lotus mentions she thought the queens could have just been propaganda early in the quest).

[GrimAtrament]

did the op miss the entire body snatcher plot with the queens they look diffrent because THATS NOT THERE ORIGINAL BODY!!!

 

and for all we know the worm queen allways treated her sister badly

Edited December 2, 2016 by hazerddex

[Mints]

13 hours ago, Night4ce said:

I'm at work and I started pondering on some of the lore and what the Head Queen said and something fumbled into thought.. I don't think the Queen is the original Queen.. She treats her twin sister like a lower life form, knows the Dax honor code and vows, knows the true nature of the Warframe and the Tenno who pull the strings, has a sense of elegance to functionality for equipment, claims to have given the Tenno their power and can take them away  AND wants to take a newer more beautiful body.. I think the Queen is a Orokin counselor/judge who managed to survive the end of the Orokin era by stealing the Grineer body and posing as Grineer. Any thoughts or corrections? Am I the only one thinking this or is this common knowledge?

While the Elder Queen does seem to talk down to the Younger Queen, I think it's a mistake to assume that Worm is not equally dangerous. Do not assume that since she appears younger that she is actually a child in comparison to the Elder. Worm is the submissive sibling here but that may simply be a matter of choice on their part. Remember that they are hundreds of years old and that appearances can be deceiving. Worm's messages to the Grineer in the Kuva Fortress color her as cruel, uncompromising, fickle, and very much aware of the power her position grants her. She wields that power in a manner that makes most dictators look like kittens. Don't underestimate her.

Edited December 2, 2016 by Mints

[--Chubbs--]

the queens were conjoined twins, the orokin were originally going to exterminate the worm,yadda yadda yadda the worm