Banshee's anti-fun sound quake

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

16 hours ago, Momo93 said:

Leave my Resonating Quake build alone! It's one of the last tools that can get us through easily the horrible snorefest interception and defense missions. Yes, they are so bad that I won't be wasting any time and energy on them.  Stunlocking the whole map it is and just be done with it...... It's more fun pressing 4 and browsing the internet with those missions. They are drawn out way too much. 3 waves of interception are boring, 10 waves of defense are also boring and 15 mins of survival are also ZzzzZZzzzZZZzz fests not to mention THERE ARE NO REWARDS during sorties only the end mission one which is a laughable amount of credits only and the scraps you get during mission. I'd rather have short but eventful missions.

you sound very jaded.

especially survivals pretty much perfectly represent warframe's core gameplay, nothing more, nothing less: kill stuff, don't die. if that's so very boring to you why not consider switching to a new game and leave warframe to people who genuinely enjoy it, instead of skipping through missions with the cheese of the month while spoiling the experience for them...

[Tsunero]

13 hours ago, DreamsmithJane said:

Sorties grant affinity (syndicate standing, focus), credits, endo, rivens, lenses, formas, and potatoes. And there are only "scraps" during the mission if you AFK and don't bother to kill anything. Otherwise, you get significant quantities of credits, crafting resources, and quite a lot of chances at rare mods. Outside of kuva, arcanes, and relics/prime parts, they give you every reward you could want. You clearly understand that the rewards exist, or you wouldn't be playing sorties at all. You just want the rewards without actually playing the mission. The fact that you rightly expect Resonating Quake to do this for you is exactly why it needs to be removed. Nobody is forcing you to play the game if you don't want to. You can stop at any time. But don't expect rewards without demonstrating the skill and/or decision-making required to earn them. That's not how games are meant to work. You're supposed to have to play in order to win.

I was referring to the specific wave and minute rewards and the spy vaults. Rare mods? Credits? Resources? Please...they are not that much at all except that the credits are okayish. Sorties can offer nothing in those aspects because there are specific and way better normal missions for each resource and even credits. End rewards are clearly rigged since the "improvement", the old one wasn't that good either but it was definitely better. You completely ignored the reason why I use Resonating Quake during those specific missions, they are too boring and reward wise not worth it, sometimes they are a little tiny bit challenging but I just have to push some more buttons then.

Edited December 7, 2016 by Momo93

[RistN]

2 hours ago, ChasePanic said:

It's still a problem though. If there are better map lockers then the ability to pause the entire map on demand then they should be looked at too.

Yes there are better map lockers.Slow Nova,CC Rhino(stomp),CC Frost,CC Volt(same as Banshee with his own restrictions),Vauban...

Its not a problem while we have infinite lvl scaling enemies one shot  killing everyone.Powerful CC abilities are necessary because killing abilities have their restrictions and big falloff thats increasing with that lvl.People may like them or not but there will always be necessity of using them.

 

[PanicPrime]

1 hour ago, RistN said:

Yes there are better map lockers.Slow Nova,CC Rhino(stomp),CC Frost,CC Volt(same as Banshee with his own restrictions),Vauban...

Its not a problem while we have infinite lvl scaling enemies one shot  killing everyone.Powerful CC abilities are necessary because killing abilities have their restrictions and big falloff thats increasing with that lvl.People may like them or not but there will always be necessity of using them.

 

• Slow nova does not completely lock down the map, enemies are still able to attack at a reduced capacity.
• Rhino stomp has limited range and duration.
• Frost's spammable ult can be powerful with max range and duration, but still isn't going to lock down the whole map.
• Volt's similar to Frost in that regard.
• Vauban has excellent CC, but it requires the player to move around the map and refresh their bastille/vortex grenades over time.

The issue here isn't that soundquake is powerful, it's that it is anti-fun.

The banshee player walks to the center of the map and presses 4.
The rest of the team are now on janitorial duty hunting down perma-CC'd enemies in their spawn rooms.
It's tedious and unenjoyable for everyone involved.

There is no meaningful content currently that deals with the level of content you are talking about. If you're being one shot by enemies on the level 100 sortie then you are building your frames wrong.
If you're going into endless defence and staying until the enemies start to hit level 300+ and are struggling, then that's all on you, the game is not balanced around enemies of that difficulty.

Your argument for scaling pretty much boils down to "it's impossible to peak against enemies so we should have an 'I win' button"

 

How would you suggest dealing with long-term enemy scaling if you dislike infinite level scaling?

[ashrah]

that was good bansheee since in iterceptions u dont need to kill enemies... u just need to wait for time cooldown...that is effective way how to do it.....

[LSG501]

2 hours ago, ChasePanic said:

The issue here isn't that soundquake is powerful, it's that it is anti-fun.

The banshee player walks to the center of the map and presses 4.
The rest of the team are now on janitorial duty hunting down perma-CC'd enemies in their spawn rooms.
It's tedious and unenjoyable for everyone involved.

Oh because it's not fun....you mean like when an ember (your picture...) presses 4 for world on fire and kills everything on an 'exterminate' mission by just running through it or a simulor player spams their mouse button as they run..... all while the rest of the team are just running along as it's pointless for them to be there... and before you say it, ember is a LOT more energy efficient than banshee.  I would put money on you doing the former a fair few times.... 

 

The simple solution is this, if you don't like a particular play style, don't stay with them. 

Edited December 7, 2016 by LSG501

[PanicPrime]

2 hours ago, LSG501 said:

Oh because it's not fun....you mean like when an ember (your picture...) presses 4 for world on fire and kills everything on an 'exterminate' mission by just running through it or a simulor player spams their mouse button as they run..... all while the rest of the team are just running along as it's pointless for them to be there... and before you say it, ember is a LOT more energy efficient than banshee.  I would put money on you doing the former a fair few times.... 

I never play ember. I've had this icon for 3 years because I got it in a prime pack, forgot how to change it, and don't really care either.

Either way your argument is silly. "You do something I don't like so your opinion is invalid."

Since you dislike ember, let's add her to the rework list, no?

 

2 hours ago, LSG501 said:

The simple solution is this, if you don't like a particular play style, don't stay with them. 

But if I want to play on a public match, I don't have a choice. If your argument is if we don't like it we should play solo then you might as well say "if you have feedback I don't agree with you should uninstall and go away"

It isn't constructive and helps absolutely nobody.

How would you feel about a kick vote option where, if all 3 other players in a game vote to kick the 4th they will be removed? 

Edited December 7, 2016 by ChasePanic

[LSG501]

15 minutes ago, ChasePanic said:

I never play ember. I've had this icon for 3 years because I got it in a prime pack, forgot how to change it, and don't really care either.

Either way your argument is silly. "You do something I don't like so your opinion is invalid."

Since you dislike ember, let's add her to the rework list, no?

Really by that exact same opinion you've just said your own argument is silly... my argument is the exact same argument you're using against banshee, wof is anti fun because it means no one else has anything else to do....  what was that argument about banshee.... sound quake is anti fun because others have nothing to do...

And I actually do feel wof is more annoying than both ash bladestorm AND sound quake but it won't be reworked because it's ember... you very rarely see complaints about ember.

Quote

But if I want to play on a public match, I don't have a choice. If your argument is if we don't like it we should play solo then you might as well say "if you have feedback I don't agree with you should uninstall and go away"

It isn't constructive and helps absolutely nobody.

How would you feel about a kick vote option where, if all 3 other players in a game vote to kick the 4th they will be removed? 

I never said anything about solo, banshee is used in such low numbers (I've seen one in the last month) that you can easily leave and find another public group without banshee....

Kick option will never happen because it would be abused... you saying what you did just proves that it would be abused by people who don't like certain playstyles instead of it's intended purpose of kicking people who are abusing the system etc, having a banshee that can lock down a map is not abusing the system, it's utilising the mods in the way that the mods have allowed them to be used. 

Edited December 7, 2016 by LSG501

[PanicPrime]

4 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

my argument is the exact same argument you're using against banshee, wof is anti fun because it means no one else has anything else to do....  what was that argument about banshee.... sound quake is anti fun because others have nothing to do...

Great. Then feel free to make a thread about wof and I'll be happy to back you up. I agree, I don't like it either. Did I ever say I disagreed? Granted I feel it's less of an issue than Banshee personally but I'd agree with a rework regardless.

I claim your argument is silly because you're drawing a false equivalence between your unsubstantiated thoughts about my own play style versus how I feel about another one.
Not only were you wrong in your assumption but, to quote myself: Either way your argument is silly. "You do something I don't like so your opinion is invalid."

 

9 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

I never said anything about solo, banshee is used in such low numbers (I've seen one in the last month) that you can easily leave and find another public group without banshee....

Kick option will never happen because it would be abused... you saying what you did just proves that it would be abused by people who don't like certain playstyles instead of it's intended purpose of kicking people who are abusing the system etc, having a banshee that can lock down a map is not abusing the system, it's utilising the mods in the way that the mods have allowed them to be used. 

 

So if three players all want banshee to leave, they should all just quit and find a new game? It's increasingly obvious here that your argument has nothing to do with abuse, but self interest.

If people don't like how someone plays then they should leave and go somewhere else, but god forbid they be given a majority vote to remove play styles they don't enjoy. Your argument reeks of "my way no matter what".

 

[Licitaqua]

RQ banshee is relatively fair when you compare it to a max strength sonar while using a whole team equiped with weapons or frames like frost, equinox, zarr or tonkor. your arguments mean very little in terms of abusing teh game when i can take my banshee into an endless run and provide my team with literally endlessly scaling damage that both zarr and tonkor can hit several times per shot. rq banshee is almost useless in true late game material.

[LSG501]

38 minutes ago, ChasePanic said:

So if three players all want banshee to leave, they should all just quit and find a new game? It's increasingly obvious here that your argument has nothing to do with abuse, but self interest.

If people don't like how someone plays then they should leave and go somewhere else, but god forbid they be given a majority vote to remove play styles they don't enjoy. Your argument reeks of "my way no matter what".

 

Actually I very rarely use banshee but I find it comical that you're using the argument that it's about self interest... the whole premise of this thread is because YOU didn't like the way another player played and instead of leaving you decided that a rarely used frame such as banshee needed nerfing..... so you can also say that your argument uses the same 'my way no matter what' mentality because you don't want players to use sound quake...

[Licitaqua]

4 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

Actually I very rarely use banshee but I find it comical that you're using the argument that it's about self interest... the whole premise of this thread is because YOU didn't like the way another player played and instead of leaving you decided that a rarely used frame such as banshee needed nerfing..... so you can also say that your argument uses the same 'my way no matter what' mentality because you don't want players to use sound quake...

if de did end up nerfing banshee sound quake would not be the target of the ban, in real end game content sound quake is just not useful, dont focus so much on nerfing a skill thats only op at low levels and focus on nerfing the one that will never end scaling no matter how long the mission is run 

 

PS this comment is not intended to be directed at the person quoted but at the person making the complaints to banshee

[(PSN)MrNishi]

@ChasePanic

Yeah Max Range with Max Efficiency Banshee can stun lock Tileset and then some.

 

I am guilty of having such a build for Banshee solo Excavation and when soloing Sortie Interception missions.

 

Max Range Resonating Sound Quake is 100m Range at 20x stack.

Because of her Arcane Chorus Helm I can still achieve Max Efficiency with a min duration build.

Meaning with Max Range I can do a 50m 3sec Stun while be mobile or collecting energy to spam cast Silence.

 

Then after all Power cells are inserted or Interception points captured: I can just AFK Resonating Quake for the remainder.

 

I agree it is very cheesy and non-engaging, aside from spamming Silence.

 

Only enemies other than Nullifiers that are trouble for Banshee, especially solo with this build: Flying Drones/Osprey

 

Banshee especially with a Max Range, Max Efficiency, and Min Duration, build has very little standard survivability.

Basically relying on Large AoE stun lock to stay alive.

Because Sniper Crewman/Ballista's, and Napalm/Bombard rockets will wreck a 300/300 Banshee in Sortie missions: those enemies need to be stunned at the 50m engagement range. Minimizing the chance of taking lethal fire.

 

I would like Sound Quake changed to something else but only if Silence can be recastable or Sonic Boom can be used to refresh Silence/stun, so that at least she can have some form of stun survivability that is more engaging than just AFK build.

[bubbabenali]

My new directive on public matches (foremost on Akkad): "When a lvl 30 Banshee with a < MR13 player enters the stage, get a coffe or buy some cigarettes, you will be back before wave 5".

Honstly: What where they thinking with that augment? Its too few damage and has too much range to do anything usefull other than go into sleepmode for an hour for the whole team.

[Licitaqua]

1 minute ago, bubbabenali said:

My new directive on public matches (foremost on Akkad): "When a lvl 30 Banshee with a < MR13 player enters the stage, get a coffe or buy some cigarettes, you will be back before wave 5".

Honstly: What where they thinking with that augment? Its too few damage and has too much range to do anything usefull other than go into sleepmode for an hour for the whole team.

well the damage itself has little to do with how people use banshee. plus if someone uses a max range rq and went afk the person would be kicked for being afk before the 5 wave mark. even if you managed it past 15 or so waves the enemies would take almost no dmg from rq anyway and make it almost useless in terms of actually finishing the mission in question

[PanicPrime]

28 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

the whole premise of this thread is because YOU didn't like the way another player played and instead of leaving you decided that a rarely used frame such as banshee needed nerfing..... so you can also say that your argument uses the same 'my way no matter what' mentality because you don't want players to use sound quake...

No, the premise of this thread is that the ability is over powered and has no comparable power on any other frame that is able to stun-lock an entire map for the duration of the mission. It relegates any other frame in your party to be a sustain-DPS janitor running around the spawn rooms cleaning up, and only if killing the enemies is a necessary step. Meanwhile Banshee presses 4 then heads to the kitchen to make a snack only coming back in time to replenish energy and press 4 again between waves. It nullifies any frame power value of frost, nova, hydroid, vauban, or anyone else. The difference here is that sure, in an ideal world I'd get my way, I'm also willing to agree on some concessions. A kick vote would pretty much nullify my argument entirely. Or a reduction to range so I can get away from it and have a bit of fun in another room. Or the ability to blacklist certain frames from my own personal queue filter so that I never see banshee until this is resolved, or a reworked ability.

While I feel there is a problem I can think of many ways to solve it, and would be happy to see any of them. Your argument is "if you don't like it then go away", shutting down any kind of discussion towards a constructive change. If you think everything about the power is fine then great, you go ahead and keep thinking that. Feel free to share your opinion too, nobody is telling you to stop. The point of a discussion is that opposing viewpoints come in and share their input too, giving DE a better understanding of what the player base as a whole feels rather than just one guy speaking for everyone.

Just try to be a little more constructive than telling people to go away and bury their heads in the sand because you disagree with how they feel.

[LSG501]

43 minutes ago, ChasePanic said:

 Meanwhile Banshee presses 4 then heads to the kitchen to make a snack only coming back in time to replenish energy and press 4 again between waves.

And this is where it shows you don't use banshee... as has been said the energy requirements of resonating quake augment are probably the highest of any frames 'ultimate' outside of the newly reworked ash bladestorm (stupidly high energy requirements) and it doesn't allow you to go away for too long, not enough to make a snack thats for sure, then there's the afk code which can stop you getting rewards and the fact she's incredibly squishy to long range and flying enemies when stuck in one place. 

 

I've actually done a public group with my banshee (one of the rare times I used her) and ended up with 2 embers and a speed nova.... you know what happened... all four frames had over 200 kills each after 20 rounds on IO....  so saying that banshee negates other frames and stops them from using their abilities is clearly wrong because it doesn't with all frames.  

[bubbabenali]

 

18 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

And this is where it shows you don't use banshee... as has been said the energy requirements of resonating quake augment are probably the highest of any frames 'ultimate' outside of the newly reworked ash bladestorm (stupidly high energy requirements) and it doesn't allow you to go away for too long, not enough to make a snack thats for sure, then there's the afk code which can stop you getting rewards and the fact she's incredibly squishy to long range and flying enemies when stuck in one place. 

You doing it "wrong", well no actually you may have modded her right, but not for the p42snore faction.

With max efficiency and durration she can bow down for at least 2-3 waves straight.

[LSG501]

1 hour ago, bubbabenali said:

 

You doing it "wrong", well no actually you may have modded her right, but not for the p42snore faction.

With max efficiency and durration she can bow down for at least 2-3 waves straight.

mines as low as it will go.....

[EinheriarJudith]

sad part is, it has created a stigma around banshee. i went into akkad one time people saw me and left but im sonar spec.

[Licitaqua]

 

On 12/7/2016 at 11:55 PM, EinheriarJudith said:

sad part is, it has created a stigma around banshee. i went into akkad one time people saw me and left but im sonar spec.

sonar spec is the only way to actually play endless runs, it stacks indefinitely and can just be spammed letting all players hit 3mil+ hits with an unmodded rank 1 tetra

[rockscl]

The combination of stunlocks or nukes + radial powers + long range + no hands requirement shows up again, banshee has been rocking interceptions since always

[NullusvultLatine]

Guys, if you don't want a Banshee to ruin your fun than leave the squad and restart the mission. You are not forced to stay in this mission. Some players want tomend this mission as quickly and easy as possible. They don't have time for your "fun".

[(PSN)Crixus044]

The problem isn't sound quake, it's the augment. DE doesn't really consider the fact that 100 energy pads can negate any efficiency problem. Also, increasing the damage only makes it worse for the ability, because it still won't kill at higher levels no matter what, but it just makes it a crappy damage ability at lower levels. I remember the old Phoenix Intercept alert that came around and max range banshee was highly desired. This augment would've made it so much easier. I think the range is nice, but the damage is a downside. On higher levels, it doesn't kill whatsoever, but it steals kills on start chart levels, which you'll find most players nowadays in akkad. If you want to change anything, let it be the augment, not the power. 

[Soketsu]

2 hours ago, AizenIchi said:

Guys, if you don't want a Banshee to ruin your fun than leave the squad and restart the mission. You are not forced to stay in this mission. Some players want tomend this mission as quickly and easy as possible. They don't have time for your "fun".

THIS !

but unfortunatly they only understand & tolerate their own fun