Javlok feedback.

[LSG501]

Personal opinion from my first few goes using it... firing the 'bullet' is far too slow, there's a kind of warm up before firing.  Was also kind of expecting more damage from it too.

I kept wanting melee to use it like a staff weapon when it was active, likely not possible as it would need new code but having watched stargate etc I kind of wanted it to be an 'all in one' type weapon. 

There really could be some visual to represent blast radius and distance on charge too.

[MithVakhar]

When you are in a party and the host has just a "little" lag, the alt fire for the projectile (the javelin itself) sometimes doesn't even leave your hand and you find yourself dead even with the tankiest frame since you aren't modding your weapon to heal people.
I tried it multiple times and even aimmed up to the sky and it still sometimes happens.

Even if you cap the self damage (which people have been asking for even when Zarr self destructs as well) it would just make the projection come back to you asap, and you just charged and threw a weapon that never left your hand and you have to repeat the process until you would actually be able to throw it.

[ObviousLee]

mod for gas, high status, multishot, and crit damage. tadaa, you have your AoE. use with inaros and self damage ceases to matter, AND you can turn that gas proc into a finisher nuke with his 1.

is'nt synergy fun?

[Cynaren]

9 minutes ago, ObviousLee said:

mod for gas, high status, multishot, and crit damage. tadaa, you have your AoE. use with inaros and self damage ceases to matter, AND you can turn that gas proc into a finisher nuke with his 1.

*cough cough* use Torid.....? Much better for nuking gas. But hey, synergy is synergy. 

Edited December 21, 2016 by Cynaren

[Sahansral]

I like the visuals and die concept of the weapons, but anything else....wow, where to start?

* slow fire rate

* low magazine size

* slow reload speed

* travel time

* trajectory arc

* self damage

* small hitbox (primary fire)

* bugs with retrieving the spear (secondary fire)

* the biggest one for me: contradicting mod requirements; to be comfortable with the primary fire mode you need fire rate, reload speed, multishot and perhaps punch through, while secondary fire does not seem to benefit form all of them and requires  flight speed and perhaps firestorm for explosion radius....

 

Edit: After thinking a bit about it, each fire mode has its own problems. Yes, DE gave us utility mods to customize the weapons to our liking. But by implementing weapons with different roles with different modding needs, DE just cut the usefullness of utility mods in half. A solution would be to mod each fire mode seperatly with two independeant mod configurations. The usefulness of thse weapons (think about the stradavar for example) would be greatly increased without really endangering the top tier weapons.

Edited December 21, 2016 by Sahansral

[Mints]

The primary fire does seem like it has a fairly steep skill curve, which might be made a little steadier by Terminal Velocity when I install it, but the secondary fire is suitably great. I was wondering if DE would ever consider letting Split Chamber create two explosions on impact when the javelin hits a surface but I don't want to get too greedy. It's a fun weapon and I like it, but it could use some tweaking.

[ObviousLee]

28 minutes ago, Mints said:

The primary fire does seem like it has a fairly steep skill curve, which might be made a little steadier by Terminal Velocity when I install it, but the secondary fire is suitably great. I was wondering if DE would ever consider letting Split Chamber create two explosions on impact when the javelin hits a surface but I don't want to get too greedy. It's a fun weapon and I like it, but it could use some tweaking.

a popular suggestion i'm seeing on javlok feedback threads is allowing for secondary explosions in line with remaining ammo in clip. meaning if you hurl the spear with 6 rounds you get the initial impact from the throw, and then 6 more elemental explosive "\tic's" to go with it for the duraiton of its time on the ground.

[Cynaren]

3 minutes ago, ObviousLee said:

a popular suggestion i'm seeing on javlok feedback threads is allowing for secondary explosions in line with remaining ammo in clip. meaning if you hurl the spear with 6 rounds you get the initial impact from the throw, and then 6 more elemental explosive "\tic's" to go with it for the duraiton of its time on the ground.

But... But.... Wouldn't that become the Zarr? (minus the callback/ammo restriction) 

Edited December 21, 2016 by Cynaren

[ObviousLee]

1 minute ago, Cynaren said:

But... But.... Wouldn't that become the Zarr? (minus the callback restriction) 

you mean the zenistar?

[Cynaren]

1 minute ago, ObviousLee said:

you mean the zenistar?

No, the Zarr. (aka Tonkor 2.0)

[ObviousLee]

Just now, Cynaren said:

No, the Zarr. (aka Tonkor 2.0)

oh, that thing. i suppose but it only has a small amount of secondary explosions. what i'm thinking is more in lines with a deployable sapping mine

[Hemmo67]

1. what if your secondary has alt fire too? we would need a whole new keybind to bring it in which at this point would be annoying given how many buttons we need

2. having to reload it after u grab it? with the 2,2 second reload time? ._. no thanks c_c

3.self damage? cuz i prefer to use the flame balls at close range and i'm fairly sure so do many others unless they want to commit suicide by throwing it .-.

[Yuzai_No]

2 hours ago, MarrikBroom said:

2. Have it expend everything in the magazine on impact to add to the AOE damage. Each round adding .5 damage. IE you get 1.5x damage for one round, 2.0 for 2 rounds, 2.5 rounds for 3, etc. fter you retrieve the weapon you have to reload, but if you throw with a full clip it does apocalyptic damage.

3. Have the fireballs have a sharp falloff AOE splash. I'm talking like six meters or so. Not very large but enough that you get some benefit out of it.

I have the same idea. I really want these to be applied to Javlok to make it a really fun weapon.

For the first one.... I don't think it would happen because it would become spammable and op. (Note: The Javlok returns instantly if you throw it directly at the cryopod making it spammable)

I think what they should do is if you throw it and it hits an enemy directly. The return time would be cut by half instead

[----_Hayden_Tenno_----]

wow. u report me? damn dude thats mature....

 

On 20.12.2016 at 8:23 PM, MushroomChevalier said:

Keep on crying kid

 

Edited December 21, 2016 by ..-Hayden-Tenno-..

[UvBenServed]

Just wanted to throw out some changes that I'd like to see for the Javlok:

• Small aoe on primary fire with no self damage (similar to the opticor)
• Ability to throw while reloading
• Damage of throw proportional to how many rounds are left in the magazine
• Throwing the Javlok consumes however much ammo is in the magazine (secondary fire doesn't consume any ammo atm)
• Throwing the Javlok reloads it
• Reload speed applying to the time it takes for Javlok to return to you
• Getting a kill by throwing the Javlok will automatically return it to you
• Increased magazine capacity, decreased ammo maximum

My main concern here is trying to make both firing modes at least somewhat viable, and hopefully encourage players to use both of them regularly. Safe sustained damage to soften enemies up and risky burst damage to finish them off. If I'm overlooking something that makes one firing mode far more effective than the other, feel free to let me know.

[PrVonTuckIII]

Yes,
Yes,
Don't care,
No,
Don't care,

I'd personally just like reload button to call it back to our hands.

Don't care,
Don't care

 

[NightBlitz]

24 minutes ago, UvBenServed said:

Ability to throw while reloading

but, uh, that doesnt really make sense, you cant reload something if you're throwing it, it doesnt work that way

 

25 minutes ago, UvBenServed said:

Throwing the Javlok reloads it

again, makes no sense

[erlo68]

Why, DE? Again a very interesting concept for a weapon that got completely bad implemented.

For all i know DE worked a long time on this weapon and i was very interested in what they make with this concept just to be very disappointed yet again. With the introduction of the Dark-Split-Sword as the first kind of "Morphing-Weapon", which also was very poorly implemented, i thought that DE would start making some crazy "Dual-Use" weapon and since im a fan of the RWBY series from Rooster Teeth that rose some hopes for weapons that would atleast resemble some ideas from that show. And when DE made a big fuss about their new weapon that can shoot and be thrown, i got really excited.

But the Javlok failed at every aspect and is as for now completely useless for the following reasons:

1. As many people pointed out by now the primary-fire is a joke. Only 6 Shots that are useles against anything that has just a little bit of armore. They have flight-time and a charge mechanic that can't be hold while reloading makes the already bad shooting experience feel much more unsatisfying.

2. The secondary-fire feels so unnatural. Why can't i charge and hold the weapon with a visual trajectory like the tonkor. It's a grineer weapon so why isn't the weapon rocket propelled while flying? That would make it visually more appealing and we wouldn't have to deal with that strong drop off, which also feels unnatural because the weapon drops with the same speed the whole flight even when dropping down on a nearly 90° angle.

3. On paper the stats look very good but since the DPS is very low, also because hitting enemies with the primary-fire itself is a challenge, you can't really make use of them. And when you finnaly modded the weapon for some decent stats its way to easy to kill one self whit the secondary-fire because you really wanna max the blast radius to make this weapon somewhat useable.

4. Why in the name of the flying-spaghetti-monster and its descendant space-mom is this a primary and not a melee weapon? Shooting with this thing feels and looks kinda stupid, and don't get me started on the "special" Inaros stance.

 

What is holding DE back from making good weapons? The programming? It couldn't be the ideas... they pay people to come up with this stuff... and in the worst case they have a friggin huge community that would die to have DE make their ideas into reality. If it were me i would be like: "Hey Community i have this idea for a weapon, here look at it and tell me if you would like to see it in the game. If you don't like it give us ideas to improve it or a better idea for a new weapon". Instead of working on it for months and only teaser it once in a while, just to (again) dissapoint everyone (ok not EVERYONE but you get the idea) and get hate for it in the forums.

If you want to make "dual-use" or better "morphing" weapons don't hold back and go nuts to bring us really "interesting" weapons, and take your time to polish it out. As long as the result is good we won't be mad and encourage yourself to look for inspiration in other medias like Anime and Movies.  I would love to see a really transforming weapon that completely changes it's purpose on the press of a button.

Let's take a look at a similar idea and how we can improve this concept by getting some inspiration. I mentioned RWBY before (Final Fantasy is also a good option), they have mastered the art of multi-use-transforming weapons:

This is Pyrrha, she is masterfully wielding a shield and a Spear that can transform into a rifle or a sword, while also being able to control polars... magnetic magic if you want.

Her is a more detailed look of her weapons:

To fit the gameplay of warframe we leave out the shield an the sword and will be left with a semi-automatic rifle with 8 rounds, that to still fit the grineer fire theme shoots ultraheated ammunition (hit-scan... no travel time), that TRANSFORMS into a spear when holding the secondary-fire button and gets thrown when releasing it or pressing the primary-fire button. While holding the spear ther should be a full visual trajectory until the point where it will land. Add the aforementioned idea with the rocket propelled spear to even better fit the grineer theme. Keep the stats and give it a sleek but still grineer looking design and a glowing shell ejection animationd after every shot and BOOOOM you got yourself a weapon everyone will be able to enjoy.

I would like to post a design myself but my artistic talent doesn't go beyond drawing stick figures so if someone understands my idea and has the skill to create some awesome designs i would love to see them.

So that's it from me... space-mom is calling.

Hang tight!

[NightBlitz]

uh..yea...that would be a hell of a lot more work to implement over the current version, and the more lines of code something has, the more likely something will break or go wrong

[Avalona]

As someone who have sank 4 forma into the Javlok, I agree it's a complete joke

Here's some ideas for its improvement :

1) increase the base damage and throw damage, preferably by multiple of 6 at the minimum (because 10k crit throw is a flipping joke)

2) make the primary fire a trigger, drop the stupid charge that doesn't work (you can't even keep it charged for firing later)

3) likewise, remove the charge for the throw

4) increase base ammo capacity and keep the reload speed OR keep the base ammo capacity but increase reload speed

5) just add the AoE damage on the throw, like you said it would have

6) make it receivable if thrown at the wall, ok?

 

 

Although, I'll give you a credit, Javlok with Limbo idle animation (both) is super awesome

Edited December 22, 2016 by Avalona

[Insizer]

One of the biggest issues is the 20 second throw downtime. Sure, you can lessen the time by physically retrieving it, but for god's sake, we are able to use a grineer shield like a boomerang. Why can't we jank it back from a distance? 

[Jerakl]

I have a pyrrha figurine on my shelf in my room.

Was hoping for something like her lever action/spear weapon.

[HyokaChan]

You know what would be really cool?

If we could have our Kubrow go fetch it for us after we throw it. Like make it a part of the Chesa Kubrow's Retrieve.

Edited December 22, 2016 by HyokaChan

[HyokaChan]

...By Chesa Kubrows and maybe Vacuum.

 

Yeah. That would make things a lot easier.

[SolaireTheSunWalker]

10 minutes ago, erlo68 said:

1. As many people pointed out by now the primary-fire is a joke. Only 6 Shots that are useles against anything that has just a little bit of armore. They have flight-time and a charge mechanic that can't be hold while reloading makes the already bad shooting experience feel much more unsatisfying.

2. The secondary-fire feels so unnatural. Why can't i charge and hold the weapon with a visual trajectory like the tonkor. It's a grineer weapon so why isn't the weapon rocket propelled while flying? That would make it visually more appealing and we wouldn't have to deal with that strong drop off, which also feels unnatural because the weapon drops with the same speed the whole flight even when dropping down on a nearly 90° angle.

3. On paper the stats look very good but since the DPS is very low, also because hitting enemies with the primary-fire itself is a challenge, you can't really make use of them. And when you finnaly modded the weapon for some decent stats its way to easy to kill one self whit the secondary-fire because you really wanna max the blast radius to make this weapon somewhat useable.

1- Primary fire isn't a joke because you can mod it with corrosive and it'll have fire I don't see a single problem with it this also now it's good against enemies with armor!! I honestly don't really understand what you're even talking about, are you saying why can't you hold the charge shot while reloading ?

2- The secondary fire doesn't feel unnatural to me and a visual trajectory wouldn't work too well because the distance and drop changes depending on how long you hold the charge and how high you throw it. "rocket propelled while flying" Is this actually a reason for why this gun is disappointing ? DE wanted to do something that's completely unique not every weapon the Grineer make needs to be rocket propelled,

3- The stats aren't that low not to mention it's not hard to hit enemies with the primary-fire just learn to lead the shots it's the exact same thing with any throwable weapon despairs etc.The weapon is easy to kill yourself but that could also just be said about any  gun that shoots explosives except the Tonkor. The point of the secondary fire is to use it when a group of enemies are far enough away that you can kill them w/o killing yourself if you mod it with more blast radius then just don't throw it near you. 
 

Not every new weapon that comes out needs to have insanely high stats to make it into another meta weapon. Obviously all said is just my opinion on this weapon

29 minutes ago, Avalona said:

3) likewise, remove the charge for the throw

The Javlok needs the charge because it allows it to be thrown closer or if you hold the charge all the way it goes much further from you