The need for AI placeholders in PvP

[krayken827]

As most people no doubt know, there is a lack of players playing Conclave. Rarely does one ever find others playing Conclave, thus this makes an issue for players seeking to earn standing with Teshin.

My solution is to put in AI specters as a placeholder for actual players, that way players can play Conclave and earn standing if they wish whilst waiting for others to join in. That way no one is stagnant in their progress to get that Teshin exclusive mod or skin or just wanting to play Lunaro because they don't want to spend the money on Rocket League.

Technically this does make PvP into PvE, but if anyone else has a better idea to resolve this issue, by all means, share your thoughts.

[(PSN)Kamranos]

if they made an AI conclave, I'd play the hell out of that. The toxic nature of PvP game play is what has kept me away from it since its release. I used to run a gaming community that played Killzone on PS3. We would make events where it was a handful of players versus a large squad of AI. We had far more fun with these events than we ever did PvP.

[xXDeadsinxX]

That is actually a neat idea +1

[low1991]

+1 to idea.

+more 1's if we can play conclave against a squad of AI's, (in groups of 4 or 8, like raid PvAI)

[Sophista]

Idea is good, im afraid tho, that AI enemies are not going to cut it.
If you ever played moba games, and tried to practice on bots to be better at fighting real enemy, you already know how bad AI is compared to medicore casual player.

Saying all that... if we would have "practice conclave mode" where we can learn maps, get a hang of differences between pvp/pve, and maybe test newly released weapons before jumping into real pvp, i think it could work.
have some options, so you can setup your game and practice.
Maybe even add some standing as reward (obviously smaller amount than regular match)

[Heckzu]

AI's should not give Conclave standing because that defeats the whole point of PvP. The only reasonable way to have AI enemies give standing is to make their AI so advanced that even Phasedragon has difficulty against them, in order to prevent easy Conclave standing farming. But given how our Specter AIs are, that won't happen anytime soon.

[Stormdragon]

50 minutes ago, krayken827 said:

As most people no doubt know, there is a lack of players playing Conclave. Rarely does one ever find others playing Conclave, thus this makes an issue for players seeking to earn standing with Teshin.

My solution is to put in AI specters as a placeholder for actual players, that way players can play Conclave and earn standing if they wish whilst waiting for others to join in. That way no one is stagnant in their progress to get that Teshin exclusive mod or skin or just wanting to play Lunaro because they don't want to spend the money on Rocket League.

Technically this does make PvP into PvE, but if anyone else has a better idea to resolve this issue, by all means, share your thoughts.

Conclave is far from being dead, there are times of the day when finding matches is slightly harder than usual because of obvious reasons, but it doesn't mean that it isn't alive. Try changing your matchmaking region to NA or EU, increase your ping limiter a bit, and try again to look for games. You can also join the Discord Conclave Community to look for both, fight and advice.

The problem with adding bots, is that it makes up for an easy and exploitable way to farm for standing since warframe's ai isn't any good yet (and seems like it will take forever to be improved) and matchmaking can be set to let nobody else join a public match, defeating the purpose of PvP. 

I'd personally be happy if it was implemented but just for practice purposes but without tasks or standing being earned from playing it, just like lunaro practice mode, for example.

43 minutes ago, (PS4)Kamranos said:

The toxic nature of PvP game play is what has kept me away from it since its release. I

I'm tired of dealing with this statement, and even tough I agree on many PvP games having toxic communities, the toxicity in warframe PvP comes from somewhere else. Let me quote myself from another thread:

On 11/12/2016 at 5:39 AM, -----LegioN----- said:

honestly, most of the toxicity I've seen in this sub forum comes from non PvP players, just like in game, the most toxic players I've found are elitists in recruitment tab, some rep/challenge farmers, and players who can'tstand being killed or losing a match, and I guess youcan bet where most of those come from. On the other hand most of the players who actually enjoy PvP are very kind and helpful towards those eager to learn, improve and git gud, but sadly the conclave community is way to small when compared to the anti-pvp crew that spits misinformation and toxicity.

Feel free to take a look at some of the threads in this subforum and/or go to the discord community linked above for further proof.  

21 minutes ago, Heckzu said:

AI's should not give Conclave standing because that defeats the whole point of PvP. The only reasonable way to have AI enemies give standing is to make their AI so advanced that even Phasedragon has difficulty against them, in order to prevent easy Conclave standing farming. But given how our Specter AIs are, that won't happen anytime soon.

Haha, that would be fun, but frustrating af for most of the players who can't stand being killed by a single mob. A way to set difficulty would be the way to go, but as I said above, it should be only for practice purposes to prevent players from exploiting the system by using the same "tactics" to create farming lobbies.

 

I'd gladly play alone against a team of bots with the skills of players like Pun-chee, FullMetal0339, Pythadragon, Witchydragon, SevenLetterKword, Phasedragon, etc. only to get wrecked and beaten over and over again without getting a single standing point until getting good enough to beat the actual players (:

Edited December 21, 2016 by -----LegioN-----

[TheJadrimian]

You can already play Rathuum and/or The Index (coming back soon by the looks of it) if you want a Conclave-like experience against bots, but making Conclave standing available through PvE isn't the way to go, for reasons that I believe have been covered fairly well above.

There are a lot of ways Conclave could potentially be improved to attract more players (more rewards, better new player experience and an Elo system being my personal favourites); undercutting its whole premise, however, is avoiding the problem rather than solving it.

[(XBOX)Tylers Legend]

1 hour ago, krayken827 said:

As most people no doubt know, there is a lack of players playing Conclave. Rarely does one ever find others playing Conclave, thus this makes an issue for players seeking to earn standing with Teshin.

My solution is to put in AI specters as a placeholder for actual players, that way players can play Conclave and earn standing if they wish whilst waiting for others to join in. That way no one is stagnant in their progress to get that Teshin exclusive mod or skin or just wanting to play Lunaro because they don't want to spend the money on Rocket League.

Technically this does make PvP into PvE, but if anyone else has a better idea to resolve this issue, by all means, share your thoughts.

 

Conclave isn't dead on console and isn't dead on PC. Bots with no reward is fine with me, but... I don't want to see Player vs AI. It's PvP and it would only hold the place of missing squad members and not replace them. We might not need bots, doesn't look like it. I get instant matches, full lobbies.

[rockscl]

Theres a lot of players but the matchmaking is lacking, people suggest you to meta-matchmake in order to find players, this works most of the time, but its also unpresentable, if it was fine then DE would have included the region and ping threshold switching in the conclave UI and call it a day.

This problem should be escalated and solved, most of the new players coming to conclave share the same experience leading to the conclusion you have in here: "lack of players", a quick path to do this is giving us a server browser.

Edited December 21, 2016 by rockscl

[krayken827]

On 12/21/2016 at 11:08 AM, low1991 said:

+1 to idea.

+more 1's if we can play conclave against a squad of AI's, (in groups of 4 or 8, like raid PvAI)

Playing in an AI team against a squad of AI's was essentially the idea I was going for, not too sure about doing raids with AI... though, how many people actually do those?

[krayken827]

On 12/21/2016 at 10:58 AM, (PS4)Kamranos said:

if they made an AI conclave, I'd play the hell out of that. The toxic nature of PvP game play is what has kept me away from it since its release. I used to run a gaming community that played Killzone on PS3. We would make events where it was a handful of players versus a large squad of AI. We had far more fun with these events than we ever did PvP.

I didn't consider the toxic part of the community when I wrote this, but hey, there's another good reason for my idea.

[demoxis]

Yes and no. 

It should be a variant. 

I am selective who I play with and if I find a toxic individual I switch to my more troll load outs and I wreck house until they say they are doneasy being toxic or they leave then I pass their name along to my clan and alliance so they know to watch out for that individual. 

Xbox has a reputation system for players that it uses to let people know of people who are poor sports or have a lot of reports against them. This method uses the same principle. 

Most toxic people in conclave are young kids who shouldn't even be playing this game as it is 17+ anyway. 

[(PSN)Flatulent_Draco]

Yeah if DE put in bot placeholders I would play the hell outta Conclave. After playing CoD, Destiny, MAG, DUST514, Section8, Section 8: Prejudice, and lots of others it just got so dull yet annoying to constantly play hardball or balls to the walls sweaty matches... not to mention Conclave has some sweet rewards that can be used outta PvP that I'd go after if it wasn't such a chore to get rep against hardened Conclave masters.

[MystMan]

Doesn't this thread describe Rathuum / The Index?

And I'm also against this whole idea of getting conclave standing by fighting bots.

I'm 100% PVE player and have zero interest in pvp but I at least respect the conclave skins. You wear them cause you earned them by fighting each other.
I see conclave content as DLC. "I didn't buy it so I don't have it lalalala I can't hear youuuu" 

I wasn't a fan of the recent snowball event of putting pve sigils/skins/potato behind a conclave event (not counting that last sigil reward which was genuinely new and meant for conclave players) but I fortunately had them already from 2014 Tactical Alert, which was pve. Let's hope they won't do this again. Pve and pvp content have to remain separate at all times.

 

As for players who have trouble finding matches, that is pretty much luck-based on what region of the world you are in and if you are logging in during peak hours. I read that some have to change their region settings to get into matches but that can't be doing their ping any good favors. Or it could be that matchmaking is simply not working right for some, which is a big problem in regular co-op mode right now for everybody.

Edited January 4, 2017 by MystMan

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

I'll leave a current cautionary tale about Ai bots and the problem they generate when you add in cosmetics, it's happening right now in Strike Vector Ex. Strike Vector Ex is a solid PVP experience. Good balancing, super fun, and can be hardcore. It harkens back to the days of arena combat with pickups and weapons that don't require Xp to become great. The Developer Rage quit added bots when they switched over to consoles to fill the rosters and the Ai on the PVP side are really good compared to the Bots in the Story Mode...two different animals altogether. What started happening was player would switch sides and just kill the bots, no matter how good the Ai is... it's still bots. They did this to unlock the cosmetics. A player would come in and find themselves outnumbered four to one till they got with the program and switched sides. If too many player started balancing out the match then players would quit. They want the cosmetics, not a PVP match. Currently Strike Vector Ex is pretty dead while it's group chat pines for PVP matches, but gets nothing but bot matches described above with PUGs....Some are finally forming groups, but the general expereince is dismal. If you want more players in PVP in between PVP events like the Holiday one then get the PVP mods into the normal game. Let players acru those mods, rank them, and eventually some will want to test them out thinking they might have a good build that can keep them in the match. Making them run the gambit with nothing against seasoned players even with the addition of the Matchmaking filter just drives them off. 

[(PSN)Flatulent_Draco]

6 hours ago, MystMan said:

Doesn't this thread describe Rathuum / The Index?

And I'm also against this whole idea of getting conclave standing by fighting bots.

I'm 100% PVE player and have zero interest in pvp but I at least respect the conclave skins. You wear them cause you earned them by fighting each other.
I see conclave content as DLC. "I didn't buy it so I don't have it lalalala I can't hear youuuu" 

I wasn't a fan of the recent snowball event of putting pve sigils/skins/potato behind a conclave event (not counting that last sigil reward which was genuinely new and meant for conclave players) but I fortunately had them already from 2014 Tactical Alert, which was pve. Let's hope they won't do this again. Pve and pvp content have to remain separate at all times.

 

As for players who have trouble finding matches, that is pretty much luck-based on what region of the world you are in and if you are logging in during peak hours. I read that some have to change their region settings to get into matches but that can't be doing their ping any good favors. Or it could be that matchmaking is simply not working right for some, which is a big problem in regular co-op mode right now for everybody.

Hmm pretty valid points actually, DE probably did this just to see if people would actively try PvP to get their rewards. It was fun at first for the snowball fighting, but then the try hards of the Conclave took it too seriously and sucked out any fun for me. Hell I had way more fun playing hide 'n seek on some of the bigger maps just watching people try to find me lol.

Anyway adding bot placeholders wouldn't be that bad of an idea to try out at least. It would slowly ease people into trying some aspects of Conclave so that people will then try the real deal vs experienced players. Section 8 and Section 8: Prejudice did this and it actually increased competition between real players over time.

Edited January 4, 2017 by (PS4)Benjamin_Draco

[LuMeow]

Love this idea. I was trying to play Lunaro from yesterday morning consistantly(for daily challenge), and till now I haven't find a pub match to join

[demoxis]

Something else to consider. 

I close matches on some of the better players in the game. How fast do you think I could close a match on some npcs? I'd just hunt the npcs kill them really quick win the game while boosting my kd through the roof.

[Honey_sunshine]

This mode should be canceled

[JonBenj]

1 hour ago, Honey_sunshine said:

This mode should be canceled

 

Your account should be cancelled.

Don't come into feedback unless you have some actual feedback - and no, your actual feedback post - is total rubbish.

Now, why don't you try and articulate what you feel is actually wrong, use a pen and paper first and engage your critical thinking.

Edited January 15, 2017 by JonBenj

[EmptyDevil]

A person shouldn't be rewarded Conclave standing for fighting bots.

[(PSN)Xx-Ribbium-xX]

AI placeholders would be fine as long as they didn't contribute to daly challenges or contributed to a users kd ratio 

[demoxis]

It could be a practice mode. Instead of getting wrecked in the big leagues use the npc characters to learn pvp. 

Lunaro has a practice mode. Why not annihilation and team annihilation?

Edited January 17, 2017 by demoxis

[Kierlak]

On 1/16/2017 at 11:40 PM, EmptyDevil said:

A person shouldn't be rewarded Conclave standing for fighting bots.

 

A person shouldn't be rewarded Conclave standing for fighting players they they far outskill (or out cheat).