New Warframe: Nidus Feedback

[kyori]

There are some stuffs I'm not sure why it happened.

1) Sometimes Larva will spawn right in my face or very me when I put the crosshair about 10m from me but will appear as far as it is if I put the corsshair further than 15m.

2) As also a warframe without shield like inaros, I think it would be fair to buff nidus health up a bit. Now with a max vitality of 1100 health(just about half of inaros base health) and 450 armor, nidus falls easily in sorties before he can get his stacks up(against grineer).

3) With the above, I am skeptical if nidus armor actually works, as he fell real fast in sortie. (I have never fallen much when using other low armor frames, as comparing the rate of health depleting)

[Buzkyl]

19 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

The Glast Gambit: Update 19.6.0

Nidus Changes & Fixes

 

• Increased the base health of Nidus’ Maggots to 1k.
• Increased Nidus’ Mutation Stack consumption from 10 to 15 when knocked into a bleedout state/death. The task of regaining 10 Stacks is quickly obtainable, making this consequence for dying too light. Although 15 Stacks is not a huge jump, we’re hoping it’s closer to that sweet spot! 
• Entering a Nullifier bubble will now drain down Mutation Stacks the longer you are in the bubble. 
• To increase the visibility of Nidus' Maggots, holding down Nidus’ Virulence will now display a HUD marker on them. Keep in mind that casting Virulence on Maggots cause them to detonate!
• Nidus’ Ravenous Maggots no longer auto detonate when feasting on enemies. Previously the Maggots could do a majority of the grunt work and you were able to watch the carnage and gain Stacks at the same time. Now to pop the Maggots you’ll need to cast Virulence on them and rejoice in your hard earned Stack accumulation. It’s also worth noting that with testing by our team, the Stack rhythm before and after this change wasn’t noticed at all. 
• Improved the FX of Maggot explosion to better represent the intended area of explosion.
• Nidus’ Ravenous Maggots will still attack but no longer latch on other Infested Maggots or Kuva Jesters due to awkward animations.  
• Fixed FX, Maggots, & Health regeneration while in Ravenous staying around forever if cast by a Client who leaves.

 

Now before everyone comes in and says Nidus is ruined. He's still good..

Nullifiers will drain 1 mutation stack per second. It is not continuous and after every stack drain there is a slight "pause" before the next drain begins. Considering being inside a nullifer bubble is rarely advised, this change is minor.

Undying costing 15 stacks is fair considering it's power, it only affects nidus survivability early in the match.

Interms of stack gaining, the ravenous change is pretty unnoticebale. However there are other issues

• Casting virulence on enemies affected by maggots is overkill, Virulence will already kill the enemies when sufficiently stacked, maggot's AoE radius at base is too small for it to be used to reliable kill crowds.
• Because the maggots have a set spawn cap, the skill can't reliably be used for CC. Previously maggots would explode and new ones spawn the CC new enemies, now only a set number of enemies are affected.

 

The change brought Ravenous inline with Virulence as "burst" stack gaining rather than an overtime effect. There is too much overlap between their uses, possible solutions would be to greatly decrease the stacks gained from ravenous, but allow the maggots to pop naturally like before. Ravenous is suppose to aid nidus gain stacks to make him more owerful but it's current iteration feels too similar to his first skill interms of how he gains stacks.

Edited January 12, 2017 by Buzkyl

[NaeRyda]

On 04/01/2017 at 0:24 PM, Cuxman said:

So what do you expect from the long list of other Frames that have no weapon buff?
So its OK, that anyone who would like to do the same with another Frame cant reach even halve the damage while being extremely more squishy than "your" Frame?
You are missing the main point of my statement here, its not than he can act as a pure caster, its that you can overshadow anyone else (even those who play right and with decent gear) with very little risk and effort.

so basically you are saying "i don't like it and don't want those that do to have fun with it"

On 04/01/2017 at 0:24 PM, Cuxman said:

I’m sure most Nidus players think "WOW, I’m so skilled with this frame, its like its made for me", but its not its just the easy mode in the form of a Frame.

you could say the same about every other frame and those o like to play with said frame
Frost, Wow im so awesome i can hold the spot all on my own (easy mode in a form of a frame for defense missions) , Ivara, im such a ninja no one can see me rolling (easy mode in a form of a frame for spy mission) this could go on for every other frame

[PsiWarp]

It seems there is one change that was not mentioned on the patch notes:

• Ravenous will no longer refresh duration if recast inside the older instance. 

With this new change, you have to move away from the old one to create a new patch of infestation with full duration; otherwise, you end up wasting 3 Mutation. Before 19.6.0, I know there are hidden interactions between the calculations for Maggot's explosion damage and how you choose to recast Ravenous.

So, what prompted this change, or is it a bug that crept up? With how Nullifiers drain Mutation stacks now, I don't see any reason to add more ways for stacks to go to waste.

Edited January 12, 2017 by PsiWarp

[Darkmoone1]

Well to echo what I said in another post:

"The change just rests the case how absurd the gameplay design of Nullifiers are. If one is around, it's no big deal. However, because this is a game based on killing large groups of enemies and fighting against combinations of different enemy types, the scenario of multiple nullifiers is an issue. As with almost any warframe, multiple nullifiers in an enclosed space is going to mean certain doom for warframes that depend on abilities to stay afloat. With high level nodes (Like sorties) dropping these guys in droves, mixed in with other enemy types, you can forget getting through unscathed. 

Now it's even worse specifically for Nidus because the passive he's worked up towards will drain stack by stack. That means less power strength, less armor, and less health regen which he needs to survive without the ability to mod for shields and slightly above average armor. Which is seemingly weird about this decision, is that this counter to Nidus is in 2/4 major factions, corruption and Corpus. So he's fine against Grineer and Infested, but not the corrupted and corpus?

I don't know....I really am not a fan of this change....However, it's not my final word. I'll give it a week or so and then decide, but it just doesn't sit well with me."

Of course the frames still really good and has its place, however the change itself is odd to me since he was having his abilities disabled already. How far are we going with this? What other passives are going to be disabled because they seem to benefit the warframe too much?

Edited January 12, 2017 by Darkmoone1

[Angrados]

1 minute ago, Darkmoone1 said:

Well to echo what I said in another post:

"The change just rests the case how absurd the gameplay design of Nullifiers are. If one is around, it's no big deal. However, because this is a game based on killing large groups of enemies and fighting against combinations of different enemy types, the scenario of multiple nullifiers is an issue. As with almost any warframe, multiple nullifiers in an enclosed space is going to mean certain doom for warframes that depend on abilities to stay afloat. With high level nodes (Like sorties) dropping these guys in droves, mixed in with other enemy types, you can forget getting through unscathed. 

Now it's even worse specifically for Nidus because the passive he's worked up towards will drain stack by stack. That means less power strength, less armor, and less health regen which he needs to survive without the ability to mod for shields and slightly above average armor. Which is seemingly weird about this decision, is that this counter to Nidus is in 2/4 major factions, corruption and Corpus. So he's fine against Grineer and Infested, but not the corrupted and corpus?

I don't know....I really am not a fan of this change....However, it's not my final word. I'll give it a week or so and then decide, but it just doesn't sit well with me."

Of course the frames still really good and has its place, however the change itself is odd to me since he was having his abilities disabled.

Specifically in regards to the other post, I have to wonder if Nullifiers are going to be part of the Damage 3.0 Miniboss system that Steve hinted at during the last Devstream. That would probably solve the issue, at least, in my mind.

[YANJIUDING]

I'm OK with the increased required stacks for 5 sec invulnerability and the nullifier thing. But taking away the auto detonation is totally absurd. Building up stacks is never easy when your teammates are spamming AoEs like crazy, and even in the survival missions, which are the best place for building up stacks, you still need like 10 minutes to reach full stack. 

And now Nidus can hardly get and keep 15 stacks for living in Corpus sortie, because you have to find those maggots that shine in the same hue as your little infested garden's energy color and hold 9 enemies at some place you don't know, then detonate them manually by shooting 1 at them, while all those nullifiers walk around taking away your stacks and damage reduction from link and sapper ospreys dropping bombs at you.

I mean he only has 1100 health with slightly above average armor with no shield. Come on. Who ever told you keeping up his stack was super easy and he could hardly die anywhere? Did you only test it out in infested survivals?

At least fix Larva, simply make it it recastable or at least let it give up those enemies it cannot pull so it can disappear as soon as I kill the enemies trapped in front of me in the biomass so that increased duration will no longer be a punishment to Nidus. I used to make trade-offs between 2 or 4, either quick vortex or long lasting automatic homing missiles. But after this nerf Nidus' 4 just became nothing more than a regen pad.

Edited January 12, 2017 by YANJIUDING

[KrazzyKracker]

On 1/2/2017 at 8:04 AM, Cuxman said:

Your skill list would be correct if you could only have one skill but in reality its press 2->1 to win.

And the thing that makes it really broken is that it costs him no energy, if he had to pay for it (like EVERY other frame) his way to high stacking would take much more time and would be far more balanced, you could even say you worked for 50 stacks and it costs more time than 3 minutes.

I have been with Nidus in an Eximus Stronghold and made more damage than anyone else with no melee kills and 0% accuracy at the end, no other frame can do that, it would not even be OK if they balance all frames with his scaling because its simply to easy for the contend we have.

wait so your problem with nidus is he can press 2 and then 1 and win? what about all the frames in the game that can press just 4 and win? Frost can nuke the planet with his 4th and kill everything in the solar system including bacteria. Oh and he has a snow globe oh and on the off chance his 4th dosnt kill they will be frozen. You have no argument that nidus is OP or easy mode. several frames in this game when built right are easy mode. 

[Dratch]

I agree with others sentiment that the Undying and Nullfier changes were sound, but the maggots not exploding is overkill. Virulence will more often than not kill whatever it is you were pointing at, making the maggot explosion moot.

Perhaps it could be that whenever the target dies, the maggots explode? This way people running around with Tonkors don't completely negate Nidus' ability to maintain stacks. 

Edited January 12, 2017 by Dratch
Additional thought after hitting submit

[redeyedtreefrog]

It would seem to me that Nidus is the Oberon rework we deserved. I see a lot of the abilities that nidus has are abilities shared by oberon, but nidus can use these skills MUCH more effectively.

Ravenous is much like hallowed ground: deals DoTs, gives buffs(in this case regen which is more of a heal but... meh). It's also radial, something that hallowed ground should have been a long time ago.

Nidus' link ability reminds me a lot of how smite infusion works: Cast an ability on a friendly and the friendly gets a damage boost. It also affects yourself, something I always wanted smite infusion to do.

Larva fills the CC role that oberon had so much of. While oberon had a soft CC that also happened to be scaling dmg, Nidus has hard CC.

Virulence fills much the same role as reckoning did: DPS(but this time it doesn't suck), plus killing an enemy with the ability gets you a little extra. For oberon, it's the heals needed to fuel rage. In nidus' case it's layers on layers of armor.

all-in-all, I like oberon despite his many downfalls, and nidus is a lot like oberon but without those downfalls. Love the new frame, keep it up!

[PsiWarp]

Alright, it seems there are even more changes than were noted.

• Attached Maggots explode when their hosts are killed by any source, even from the attached maggots biting them to death.
• When a maggot host is killed by other sources and maggot bites, the host itself is not an eligible target and will not count towards Mutation.
• When a maggot host is hit or killed by Virulence, the host itself is an eligible target and will count as 2 hits toward the Mutation gauge.

Been complicated to test, but the results are interesting. I hope these are features, because it makes playing in a team and trying to stack when others actively kill enemies, just a bit more bearable while Virulence + Ravenous is still king for efficient Mutation stacking.

[DinendalMinyatur]

12 hours ago, Buzkyl said:

Now before everyone comes in and says Nidus is ruined. He's still good..

Nullifiers will drain 1 mutation stack per second. It is not continuous and after every stack drain there is a slight "pause" before the next drain begins. Considering being inside a nullifer bubble is rarely advised, this change is minor.

Undying costing 15 stacks is fair considering it's power, it only affects nidus survivability early in the match.

Interms of stack gaining, the ravenous change is pretty unnoticebale. However there ar eother issues

• Casting virulence on enemies affected by maggots is overkill, Virulence will already kill the enemies when sufficiently stacked, maggot's AoE radius at base is too small for it to be used to reliable kill crowds.
• Because the maggots have a set spawn cap, the skill can't reliably be used for CC. Previously maggots would explode and new ones spawn the CC new enemies, now only a set number of enemies are affected.

 

The change brought Ravenous inline with Virulence as "burst" stack gaining rather than an overtime effect. There is too much overlap between their uses, possible solutions would be to greatly decrease the stacks gained from ravenous, but allow the maggots to pop naturally like before. Ravenous is suppose to aid nidus gain stacks to make him more owerful but it's current iteration feels too similar to his first skill interms of how he gains stacks.

R.I.P Nidus I'm going to delete him now.

He's still fine. Actually he was a frame who was good without using weapons. Now just picking up a fast fire rate weapon while facing corpus will make things smoother. Unless you face lvl 100 Arctic Eximus Nullifier. But thats overkill against every other frame.

I wished DE added some infested weapon synergy with Nidus. E.g every headshot kill adds a mutation point. 

Edited January 12, 2017 by DinendalMinyatur

[ShikiRen]

The recent changes made Nidus even more prone to just keep on spamming 1, and "10 stacks are too easily gained"? Have you guys EVER played a non-endless mission on Nidus? 

[Rhaenxys]

I agree and disagree with the recent changes:

- The undying passive requiring 15 stacks is more or less a balanced change, 20 is overkill imo.

- Losing mutation stacks while in nullifier bubble is a good change and the draining rate is fair, however draining mutation stacks for falling out of the map is not fair, sometimes it isnt the player`s fault.

- Ravenous changes are very bad, now i dont even get stacks when the maggots die but the worst thing is i dont get stacks for exploding maggots with virulence.

[Somethinglurks]

I dislike the new changes.

[Rhaenxys]

Seems like i was dumb to not notice mesenpai how the changes to ravenous work, mutation stacks are only gained if the maggot explosion hits an enemy when maggots are exploding by virulence, dunno if it was like that before tho, seems fair i suppose.

[Ikusias]

Quite dissatisfied with all changes to Nidus, would have preferred De to keep it's hands off it, their reworks have proved to be always biased toward a playstyle that doesn't exist outside their studio: try to reach 10 stacks when the other 3 psychopats running with you are instantly gunning down the enemies you ball up with your 2 with a tonkor or in general obliterating the entire map before you even finish casting your 1.

The changes to his 4 make no sense, interaction with nullifiers would have been legit for other frames but is nonsensical on Nidus considering that before, on occasion contact with nullifiers drained your entire stack of mutation for no apparent reason, and yesterday sortie survival mission should have proven beyond doubt that nullifiers and sapper ospreys need to be nerfed hard!

Revert the changes, Nidus was right before, any rework was uncalled for.

To those that are fine or happy for this nerf: we have different opinions and I'd like to see your reaction when something you like is nerfed for no reason, tonkor in particular comes to mind

[Noctly]

To start, Nullifier/Passive drain for undying changes are extremely annoying, but otherwise okay.

The Ravenous change is pretty terrible, though. When cast, it effectively tells the player "this is your space, you want to stay and fight here." But that isn't accurate. The maggots wander off. This was fine before when they could explode and be useful on their own, but now Nidus is required to leave what should be "his area" and follow the maggots just to get a return on investment for his stacks, and they can go completely across the map. It's completely counter-intuitive. You can't even keep track of the maggots without holding 1, for how important it is to follow them now, you'd think they'd just always have their markers.

It feels like Ravenous is only useful for it's regen and mild CC now, it's enormously less satisfying to use now than it was before. I really think DE should revert the changes they made to it. There's a reason so many people were praising Nidus as the best designed frame DE has ever made; why go and ruin that?

[Newnight]

Just now, NoctiferPrime said:

To start, Nullifier/Passive drain for undying changes are extremely annoying, but otherwise okay.

The Ravenous change is pretty terrible, though. When cast, it effectively tells the player "this is your space, you want to stay and fight here." But that isn't accurate. The maggots wander off. This was fine before when they could explode and be useful on their own, but now Nidus is required to leave what should be "his area" and follow the maggots just to get a return on investment for his stacks, and they can go completely across the map. It's completely counter-intuitive. You can't even keep track of the maggots without holding 1, for how important it is to follow them now, you'd think they'd just always have their markers.

It feels like Ravenous is only useful for it's regen and mild CC now, it's enormously less satisfying to use now than it was before. I really think DE should revert the changes they made to it. There's a reason so many people were praising Nidus as the best designed frame DE has ever made; why go and ruin that?

Cause some people like player salt.

[Ikusias]

Nidus was balanced before, any rework should have come only after nerfing the accursed tonkor to hell

[NaeRyda]

37 minutes ago, Newnight said:

Cause some people like player salt.

and there will be A LOT of salt in the future, there were already people complaining and calling for nerf on the frame because of extensive use of abilities 2 and 1, now? it will be infested spikes and tentacles left and right, from start to end, resulting in more cries for nerf that may turn nidus in another MR fuel and slot waste

[-N7-Leonhart]

1 hour ago, Ikusias said:

To those that are fine or happy for this nerf: we have different opinions and I'd like to see your reaction when something you like is nerfed for no reason, tonkor in particular comes to mind

Nidus AND Tonkor nerf?

...............................

....YES please, so much yes!! Add Simulor to this, will ya?

Edited January 12, 2017 by -BM-Leonhart

[Ikusias]

Was trying to express that I'm not happy at all with this round of nerfs and tell to those that instead approve to put themselves in my shoes and see how much would they like seeing something they like nerfed for no reason, i cited the tonkor mainly because is the most controversial weapon to date indipendently from the wielding frame...

The Synoid Simulor is quite strong, yes, but it should expected to be considering the number of hoops we have to jump trough to obtain it (unless bought with platinum from someone else) and usually needs heavy formaing to reach it's otrageous output - the tonkor starts strong per se and outstrips the entire launcher category without suffering from lethal selfdamage.

[BalicBlackthorn]

I will not be spending any more money on this game, and may not be playing it at all, until such time as they undo/rework these changes.

The 15 stacks for undying I don't care about.

The nullifier thing I WOULDN'T care about except the sheer volume of the fricking things is such that I was close to the end of my rope as it is. Not that I can't DEAL with them, but in the amounts they spawn in is annoying and unfun. Now they eat mutation stacks, which are just a bit more of a big deal than my Rhino having to recast iron skin or whatever.

The Ravenous changes...no. Just no. What the gibbering **** were you thinking here? 

They put out an awesome warframe with maybe 1 thing (undying) that needed tweaked, give me time to fall in love, then eff him all up.

Catch you all next pach/next month/next year when they fix this.

[Separius]

Ravenous feels underwhelming compared to it's previous iteration.

21 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

It’s also worth noting that with testing by our team, the Stack rhythm before and after this change wasn’t noticed at all.

Then why change it? lol

Edited January 12, 2017 by Separius