Simulor Nerf

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

Frankly, I can still outdps Synoid Simulor Mirages with my Saryn Prime with the Telos Boltace, Secura Lecta, Atterax, or Orthos Prime. 128% Duration, 45% Efficiency, 235% Range, 204% Power Strength.

And if it comes down to it, Banshee with Savage Silence and Resonance with the same weapons but with a Gas build.

I'm totally cool with Mirages having their fun. However, there are bigger, carnivorous Frames out there starving for prey. 

[-N7-Leonhart]

17 minutes ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

Frankly, I can still outdps Synoid Simulor Mirages with my Saryn Prime with the Telos Boltace, Secura Lecta, Atterax, or Orthos Prime. 128% Duration, 45% Efficiency, 235% Range, 204% Power Strength.

And if it comes down to it, Banshee with Savage Silence and Resonance with the same weapons but with a Gas build.

I'm totally cool with Mirages having their fun. However, there are bigger, carnivorous Frames out there starving for prey. 

Frames like Saryn or Banshee don't count as much into that, since all the players in the squad benefit equally from the damage boost powers. That is absolutely not true for Mirage + SS however....

[Sasquatchias]

Honestly I think the explosion range could stand to be turned down a bit at least, its ridiculous how far the pulse travels, and after a certain point it gets really annoying seeing that gun because its pretty much guaranteed that the person using it is the one who will be having the most fun in the mission because they're the ones killing everything in sight (and out of sight).

[Epilogia]

1 hour ago, Jackviator said:

Perhaps there's a reason there's so many threads asking for a nerf, no? Kinda like how there's a reason that there are so many threads on the Hema's research costs at the moment.

That is to say, people are capable of recognizing obvious problems with the game that are in need of fixing.

And what exactly is the problem about Synoid Simulor? Why is it Overpowered?
Is Galatine prime not overpowered? Is Covert Lethality not overpowered? Atomos? Tonkor? Penta? Pox? Twin Grakatas? Soma Prime? Opticor? Ignis? Nezha's 3rd ability? Ember's 4th ability? Ivara's 3rd? Mirage? Mag's 2nd and 3rd? Nova's 4th and 2nd? Nyx's 4th? Zephyr's 3rd + augment? Volt's 4th? Day Equinox's 4th?
Do you see my point? There are overpowered weapons/abilites in this game, it's just that you think that Synoid Simulor is the only thing, and it's the Devil itself because everyone uses it who wants to make sure that his mission will be a success, and wants to do it as fast as he can. It's OP in a PvE oriented game. So what? If it limits your gameplay, then play with friends, or get a party where you make sure nobody uses it, or go alone. This is considered an MMO, you know, a game where you are supposed to be social with people and interact with them.

Feel free to bring up counterarguments, I love having arguments with people who can come up with valid points.

[Jackviator]

2 hours ago, ShadowFox14 said:

And what exactly is the problem about Synoid Simulor? Why is it Overpowered?
Is Galatine prime not overpowered? Is Covert Lethality not overpowered? Atomos? Tonkor? Penta? Pox? Twin Grakatas? Soma Prime? Opticor? Ignis? Nezha's 3rd ability? Ember's 4th ability? Ivara's 3rd? Mirage? Mag's 2nd and 3rd? Nova's 4th and 2nd? Nyx's 4th? Zephyr's 3rd + augment? Volt's 4th? Day Equinox's 4th?
Do you see my point? There are overpowered weapons/abilites in this game, it's just that you think that Synoid Simulor is the only thing, and it's the Devil itself because everyone uses it who wants to make sure that his mission will be a success, and wants to do it as fast as he can. It's OP in a PvE oriented game. So what? If it limits your gameplay, then play with friends, or get a party where you make sure nobody uses it, or go alone. This is considered an MMO, you know, a game where you are supposed to be social with people and interact with them.

Feel free to bring up counterarguments, I love having arguments with people who can come up with valid points.

The main problem that's caused when this weapon is used is that the rest of the squad often doesn't get to participate, or has to struggle to participate (in terms of getting to experience the combat), because of the actions of one person.

When you're using the MiraMulor combo, or even just the weapon itself, you don't need the rest of the squad to be there, and most squads don't want the MiraMulor/person using the SynSim there either, because it turns the game into a walking simulator, depriving people of a large portion of the gameplay (the combat).

Also most of the things/weapons you mentioned in the list there are single-target or sweep weapons, not the constantly-stunlocking, room nuking weapon that is the synoid simulor. They let the rest of the team participate, because for a lot of them you can only deal with a few targets at a time. And I don't think it's the only thing that needs a rework. Some of that list also deserves to be tweaked for balance or reworked as well (Ember's 4, the Tonkor, etc) because they act in a similar fashion (brainless room-clearing with the touch of a button, basically macro gameplay, etc).

I also made a thread on this a while back, which goes into further detail. Give it a read if you feel like it:

 

[Epilogia]

2 minutes ago, Jackviator said:

The main problem that's caused when this weapon is used is that the rest of the squad often doesn't get to participate, or has to struggle to participate (in terms of getting to experience the combat), because of the actions of one person.

When you're using the MiraMulor combo, or even just the weapon itself, you don't need the rest of the squad to be there, and most squads don't want the MiraMulor/person using the SynSim there either, because it turns the game into a walking simulator, depriving people of a large portion of the gameplay (the combat).

Also most of the things/weapons you mentioned in the list there are single-target or sweep weapons, not the constantly-stunlocking, room nuking weapon that is the synoid simulor. They let the rest of the team participate, because for a lot of them you can only deal with a few targets at a time. And I don't think it's the only thing that needs a rework. Some of that list also deserves to be tweaked for balance or reworked as well (Ember's 4, the Tonkor, etc) because they act in a similar fashion (brainless room-clearing with the touch of a button, basically macro gameplay, etc).

I also made a thread on this a while back, which goes into further detail. Give it a read if you feel like it:

 

I see your point, but then again: don't do normal random public matches, gather people if you are so annoyed by them. You don't want to be limited by other people, but did you think about the other people? They don't want to be limited by others either.
Again, easiest solution: go solo, or get a party where you know that nobody will use stuff that you don't like.
Also: I usually use Mag for defense missions, and even if there are 3 Mirage-Simulor users in the team, I can still get 80-90% of the kills, they just keep using their "op combo that makes other people not able to do anything" and they don't get any kills, they hardly even deal damage. Is Mag that OP then? Shouldn't Mag be nerfed?

[(PSN)HSomDevil]

10 hours ago, NightBlitz said:

tell us, why should we have to avoid pubs when we arent the problem? we arent at fault, its that darn HoM Mirage+ synoid simulor op trash compactor cheese thats the problem

You're assuming there is a problem.

[Tyrian3k]

11 hours ago, Sasquatch180 said:

Honestly I think the explosion range could stand to be turned down a bit at least, its ridiculous how far the pulse travels, and after a certain point it gets really annoying seeing that gun because its pretty much guaranteed that the person using it is the one who will be having the most fun in the mission because they're the ones killing everything in sight (and out of sight).

No, if anything, the fix should be done to Mirage, not the Simulor. Mirage's abilities already killed a weapon, because DE chose to fix the symptom of a problem instead of fixing the actual problem.

Edited December 24, 2016 by Tyrian3k

[Rolunde]

47 minutes ago, Tyrian3k said:

No, if anything, the fix should be done to Mirage, not the Simulor. Mirage's abilities already killed a weapon, because DE chose to fix the symptom of a problem instead of fixing the actual problem.

This.

If all they do is change the Simulor then there will be posts on and on working a growing list of weapons that Mirage "breaks" (at least as far as some are concerned). 

The SS is not the only one she can go nuts with it just seems to be one of the 2 most obnoxious and noticeable (the other being the Telos Boltace =p) and arguably the easiest one of the  to use. 

Sure it's still annoying IMO when someone that is not Mirage runs around spamming it but it takes a lot more of said spam to get to the level of noise that I feel Mirage can whip up with it.

Just my opinion I know not all feel that way, but I know some others also more or less do.

And I mean come on, if the only thing Mirage is really good for is running around spamming an AoE weapon does she really have that good of a design?! 

Sure there is someone out there that can probably list off what else they find her to actually be good at, but all of my experience playing with any Mirage since her Blind got nerfed is "pew pew spam" and that in a very very bright color too. It's not like that is hard to not notice, heh. =p

Hek, personally I'd rather run in a full squad/cell of EB Excals doing Slide Blinds non-stop than one SS-Mirage. 

[SHIRO_007]

I certainly don't want any nerf 

I mean when I m doing an exterminate void fissure or normal version I always go with Mirage+ Synoid simular combo because it's faster, easier and can be done with the mission.. plus the vortex opens the container in the room where there might be the stars for Ayatan 

 

U wanna test a weapon? Do it in Simulacrum, Solo 

Cz u want to test a weapon / frame.. so why would u go in public squad 

 

And it's less time consuming to finish a mission specially when doing ducat farming and u want to farm as much as possible in short amount of time when u don't have much time left before baro goes 

 

So Simular nerf? I certainly don't want that 

Mirage Nerf? If it's nerfed what would be there to play her for 

[----_Hayden_Tenno_----]

On 23.12.2016 at 9:12 PM, ShadowFox14 said:

I see your point, but then again: don't do normal random public matches, gather people if you are so annoyed by them. You don't want to be limited by other people, but did you think about the other people? They don't want to be limited by others either.
Again, easiest solution: go solo, or get a party where you know that nobody will use stuff that you don't like.
Also: I usually use Mag for defense missions, and even if there are 3 Mirage-Simulor users in the team, I can still get 80-90% of the kills, they just keep using their "op combo that makes other people not able to do anything" and they don't get any kills, they hardly even deal damage. Is Mag that OP then? Shouldn't Mag be nerfed?

if a mirage with a simulor gets outdamaged by a mag then he was either too lazy, afk or stupid....

and telling us to play solo or recruit a chat for hours just to do a 5 minute mission is simply ignorant.... synoid simulor in the hands of a mirage is cancer to any squad member who actually still enjoys playing the game.

Edited December 27, 2016 by ..-Hayden-Tenno-..

[Tyrian3k]

On 23.12.2016 at 9:12 PM, ShadowFox14 said:

I see your point, but then again: don't do normal random public matches, gather people if you are so annoyed by them. You don't want to be limited by other people, but did you think about the other people? They don't want to be limited by others either.
Again, easiest solution: go solo, or get a party where you know that nobody will use stuff that you don't like.
Also: I usually use Mag for defense missions, and even if there are 3 Mirage-Simulor users in the team, I can still get 80-90% of the kills, they just keep using their "op combo that makes other people not able to do anything" and they don't get any kills, they hardly even deal damage. Is Mag that OP then? Shouldn't Mag be nerfed?

Mesa's Peacemaker was changed for this very reason, so yes. Calling it a nerf is incorrect, though.

Mirage isn't quite as bad, but there is definitely room for improvement.

Also, if anyone should play solo, it would be the Mirages with their Simulors, shouldn't it? They don't need any team to begin with.

[Xhaleon]

There is actually one way to make Memoid Miragulors suck up less fun from public and less overwhelming to the team without reducing their power: Add self damage to Simulors. Do it with the singularity DOT and do it when the balls touch, but with half the radius or at a reduced damage.

Instead of Mirages running forward and making an absolute mess everywhere they go, they would now have to hang back a bit and manually explode any of their own balls that are in their way. Doesn't change Defense missions much at all but the (Synoid) Simulor is kind of a defensive campy weapon in the first place so that is not a problem.

[Epilogia]

3 hours ago, ..-Hayden-Tenno-.. said:

if a mirage with a simulor gets outdamaged by a mag then he was either too lazy, afk or stupid....

and telling us to play solo or recruit a chat for hours just to do a 5 minute mission is simply ignorant.... synoid simulor in the hands of a mirage is cancer to any squad member who actually still enjoys playing the game.

The Mag vs SimulorMirage happened quite a lot of times in my public matches, so there's that. Mag has a lot bigger range than Simulor, therefore she can kill most enemies before they get pulled/damaged by the Simulor.
Calling me stupid just shows that if you can't bring up anything, you just insult, this is the forums, I almost forgot. Could you please refrain yourself from that? Thank you.

3 hours ago, Tyrian3k said:

Mesa's Peacemaker was changed for this very reason, so yes. Calling it a nerf is incorrect, though.

Mirage isn't quite as bad, but there is definitely room for improvement.

Also, if anyone should play solo, it would be the Mirages with their Simulors, shouldn't it? They don't need any team to begin with.

A valid point, I like that. I also think that the Mirages with Simulor should play Solo instead, or in teams with friends that don't get annoyed by it.



Nerfing the Simulor can't be done without effecting it in a way that destroys the weapon, in my opinion.
Nerfing it's damage won't do any difference, unless it makes the weapon completely useless.
Nerfing the range doesn't really do anything, it's the damage that gets the kills, not the pull.
The only thing that could be done is to make the 4 mirages interact separately with the weapon's bubbles, but that won't nerf the weapon. It will just simply slow the movement down a tiny bit.

There's always something that people come up with to make the missions faster/easier. Mirage + Simulor, Ember + Ignis are the ones right now. But if DE decides to nerf these, there will be the next big combo that someone finds and then everyone uses.

[Sahansral]

On ‎23‎.‎12‎.‎2016 at 2:51 PM, Gruumzh said:

I've got this brilliant solution for you, my man!

Check this out:

Don't

Run

Public

Matches

Absolutely brilliant...not.

When an overused combination of game mechanics severly limits other players fun and enjoyment in a coop game, "avoid puplic" is neither a valid arguement, advice or solution, but a sure sign that this combination really need to be looked at.

I suggest using two strategies to really deal with this issue:

1) Keep on expressing your concerns in the forums.

2) Play this combo yourself for some weeks just to make a point. DE got the statistics. I don't think that simulor and Mirage HoM are far away from the brink of getting a well deserved hit with the nerf bat. Why not push it over a bit? :-)

 

[Gruumthimus.Prime]

41 minutes ago, Sahansral said:

Absolutely brilliant...not.

 

If you read the whole thread, you would've realized that my post was nothing more than an off-topic joke because of what someone said before me even if it is related to the thread itself in a way. If you want my actual opinion on this, you should probably read the whole thread in which you'll find my second post. But, anyway, since you decided to stick to that one...

 

45 minutes ago, Sahansral said:

When an overused combination of game mechanics severly limits other players fun and enjoyment in a coop game, "avoid puplic" is neither a valid arguement, advice or solution

Keeping in mind what I said about my first post, still, how on earth is there any correlation between not playing public matches and the game being "co-op", because no where did I imply that not playing public matches means you have to play the game all by yourself. I'm not sure if you are new to the game or what it is, but there are 2 matchmaking options other than "public" and "solo".

[Qinaii1337]

Simulor dont need a nerf. Simulor isnt Ende game ready so anything is fine.

Greetings.

 

Edited December 27, 2016 by Qinaii

[radastir]

45 minutes ago, Qinaii said:

Simulor dont need a nerf. Simulor isnt Ende game ready so anything is fine.

Greetings.

 

This.

You can always outdamage Simulor Mirages and Embers. You just have to learn your tile sets and to master "Movement 2.0".

In the last run I got "only" 49% damage because I had the door bug (DE please fix this first and foremost! It happens really often again since the last patch...). You will always be outdamaged by faster players, regardless of what will be nerfed next. There will always be a new "killer combo" people want to be nerfed. That is why it is called the "nerf train".

*Big Beat on*
Honestly people / This is a game / Don't nerf Simulors / Give them users a brain.
*Big Beat off*
 

 

Edited December 27, 2016 by radastir

[Snowbluff]

On 12/23/2016 at 7:51 AM, NightBlitz said:

tell us, why should we have to avoid pubs when we arent the problem?

No, you are the problem. Picking fights and crying for nerfs where none are needed. Simulor is a weapon. It's supposed to kill things. Mirage is a damage dealing warframe. It's supposed to kill things really quickly. Working as intended.

[Methanoid]

On 23/12/2016 at 5:24 PM, ShadowFox14 said:

And what exactly is the problem about Synoid Simulor? Why is it Overpowered?
Is Galatine prime not overpowered? Is Covert Lethality not overpowered? Atomos? Tonkor? Penta? Pox? Twin Grakatas? Soma Prime? Opticor? Ignis? Nezha's 3rd ability? Ember's 4th ability? Ivara's 3rd? Mirage? Mag's 2nd and 3rd? Nova's 4th and 2nd? Nyx's 4th? Zephyr's 3rd + augment? Volt's 4th? Day Equinox's 4th?
Do you see my point? There are overpowered weapons/abilites in this game, it's just that you think that Synoid Simulor is the only thing, and it's the Devil itself because everyone uses it who wants to make sure that his mission will be a success, and wants to do it as fast as he can. It's OP in a PvE oriented game. So what? If it limits your gameplay, then play with friends, or get a party where you make sure nobody uses it, or go alone. This is considered an MMO, you know, a game where you are supposed to be social with people and interact with them.

Feel free to bring up counterarguments, I love having arguments with people who can come up with valid points.

all the weapons you mention at least requiring aiming towards the target, when i see ppl with the synoid on exterminates/etc all i see is them sprinting like crazy and firing into the floor without even stopping, how the hell is that not a problem?

[(PSN)Mofojokers]

Guys and gals have you used SS by itself it's fine. Im not a fan of this weapon and i would love to see it nerfed because i hate the noise and people not exploding the orbs......😧

But it's Mirages basic not the gun.... If they nerf SS then people will just move over to Tonkor. 😕

OP AOE weapons are made more OP when fired multiple times at once. 😂

 

[----_Hayden_Tenno_----]

On 27.12.2016 at 9:29 AM, ShadowFox14 said:

Nerfing the Simulor can't be done without effecting it in a way that destroys the weapon, in my opinion.
Nerfing it's damage won't do any difference, unless it makes the weapon completely useless.
Nerfing the range doesn't really do anything, it's the damage that gets the kills, not the pull.
The only thing that could be done is to make the 4 mirages interact separately with the weapon's bubbles, but that won't nerf the weapon. It will just simply slow the movement down a tiny bit.

There's always something that people come up with to make the missions faster/easier. Mirage + Simulor, Ember + Ignis are the ones right now. But if DE decides to nerf these, there will be the next big combo that someone finds and then everyone uses.

Yes there will always be a meta and people will always try to take the easiest road.

But the Simulor is just over the top broken, like the tonkor.

Even more so in the hands of a mirage, nobody can deny that.

I'd say:

Rework mirage.

Chance Simulor mechanics, let us charge the vortex and make it increase in range and damage with each merge. BUT it will only deal damage when u explode it manually, each merge will still stagger enemies.

[low1991]

On 12/23/2016 at 11:04 PM, Aeon66 said:

I think the problem doesn't lie with the Simulor itself, but rather Mirage herself and her mirrors. So if anything they should change Mirage and not the weapon itself.

It's time for HoM second nerf!

INB4 DE remove damage and projectile from HoM' clone and give Mirage the remaining damage buff.

[(PSN)Deception_Pharo]

Yes, personally when I see a simulor player, I don't tend to revive them.

[Synpai]

4 hours ago, low1991 said:

It's time for HoM second nerf!

INB4 DE remove damage and projectile from HoM' clone and give Mirage the remaining damage buff.

One Day Later: 

"Mirage is killing everything with the [Insert Weapon Here]."

Edited December 30, 2016 by Synpai