The whole "It's a free game so stop complaining" people.

[Unus]

14 minutes ago, (Xbox One)ReadingFire229 said:

Clever but seriously how the hell do I delete all my extra posts my phone Is acting really weird

  Speak with one of our currently active moderators, should be easy to find.

[NativeKiller]

1 minute ago, ChuckMaverick said:

"Pay to win" is a subjective term, and people will argue semantics with you all day on that one.

I prefer to think of it as going from a game you want to spend money on, to one you feel you have to spend money on.

I have to admit that I Iike your wording better than mine.

Edited December 29, 2016 by NativeKiller

[Volinus7]

Warframe will never be P2W. You know why? Because players are all "Losers".

In this case it's P2L isn't it?

[notlamprey]

I would like to complain about people who hold things up by complaining about people who complain.

[AerinSol]

But f2p always has a heavy grind element to them. Warframe is simply finally catching up.

[(PSN)Tactless_Ninja]

Just now, AerinSol said:

But f2p always has a heavy grind element to them. Warframe is simply finally catching up.

Someone doesn't remember the old tower and derelict rotations for specific prime parts.

[AerinSol]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Tactless_Ninja said:

Someone doesn't remember the old tower and derelict rotations for specific prime parts.

The only thing bad about that was that most people the rewards thought were distributed like survivals. Beside that there wasn't much of a problem.

[MagPrime]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Tactless_Ninja said:

Someone doesn't remember the old tower and derelict rotations for specific prime parts.

That wasn't grind.  Everyone on the team got an item then, now only someone with a Relic equipped is rewarded - everyone else gets Void Traces.  

[Ninjacalypse]

1 hour ago, IKenofoxI said:

Just thought I'd mention that I've seen many people use that excuse to attempt debunking or countering valid arguments or feedback to the game. (In bold so that you know these are

not to be confused about flat out complaining with no proper basis) I believe that it's a very regressive act of anti-criticism and should be stopped.

I just wanted to say that warframe has a store that people can purchase items from. With people purchasing their product, for them their experience with this game would no longer be free.

They would have every right to make complains or voice their concerns.

As with people who play this game for free, indeed while it's a free game some people spend over thousands of hours into this game, which shows the company their marketing potentials with dedicated players spending time into their game. 

Rather than dismissing legitimate concerns over the game just because it's a free game, I think these people like them need to realize the importance of feedback people are attempting to give to this game to further improve it's experience.  Tldr:No. It's a free game so stop complaining is a bad argument and needs to be stopped because it's regressive.

The converse of the "game is free" argument are the "DE is greedy and they want all our money!" arguments and threads. All the Hema threads where people are mad they have to cooperate in a cooperative based game. One guy actually complained that it was unfair because he was the ONLY active player in his clan.

Then there was another thread where a guy was complaining about how it was hard to find relic groups...I suggested joining a decent sized, active and organized clan and his reply was, "Oh! you found the answer to all the problems in the game!! Why farm if you can buy right?" which just goes to show, he couldn't read and the whole thread was just a pretense to complain about DE being greedy.

In the past few weeks I've made close to $50 worth of platinum through extremely casual trading and I'm a fairly new player to boot. Haven't even done War Within yet. Just unlocked Sedna today.

Maybe, I just don't "get it." So...there are ridiculous arguments on both ends. The game being free doesn't mean it should be free of criticism. On the other hand, with as much stuff that is practically handed to you in this game the, "How dare DE make money somehow!" threads that spring up when something (the Hema) isn't instantly handed to you like practically everything else...are tragically comical.

Edited December 29, 2016 by Ninjacalypse

[(PSN)Silverback73]

1 hour ago, IKenofoxI said:

Just thought I'd mention that I've seen many people use that excuse to attempt debunking or countering valid arguments or feedback to the game. (In bold so that you know these are

not to be confused about flat out complaining with no proper basis) I believe that it's a very regressive act of anti-criticism and should be stopped.

I just wanted to say that warframe has a store that people can purchase items from. With people purchasing their product, for them their experience with this game would no longer be free.

They would have every right to make complains or voice their concerns.

As with people who play this game for free, indeed while it's a free game some people spend over thousands of hours into this game, which shows the company their marketing potentials with dedicated players spending time into their game. 

Rather than dismissing legitimate concerns over the game just because it's a free game, I think these people like them need to realize the importance of feedback people are attempting to give to this game to further improve it's experience.  Tldr:No. It's a free game so stop complaining is a bad argument and needs to be stopped because it's regressive.

CORRECTION:

It is a "Free to PLAY game".

Question: How much have you invested in this game that has considerable costs that you can PLAY for free.

I know, I know...that darned inconvenient truth thing.

Edited December 29, 2016 by (PS4)Silverback73

[Volinus7]

Like a strict 100% full organic gluten free vegan, full fledged 100% free freebies must not use any plats other than initial plats and devprize because plats from trading came from someone else wallet so it's not 100% authentic "free".

[Excalibur_Prime]

It's a free game

but you're gonna spend 700 USD on it anyway

Edited December 29, 2016 by AComfyPillow

[Guest]

1 hour ago, NovusNova said:

Yes, stating "its a free game so you can't voice feedback" is not helpful for anyone when they are trying to voice their feedback.

However the only way change can come is when feedback, both positive and negative, is voice in a respectful and constructive way.

Insulting, trolling, bashing and swearing are not the way to voice negative feedback and only leads to possibly good feedback being ignored as the dev's can't decipher the feedback and likely won't be interested in reading feedback that is just a page of insults being thrown at them.

^This^

 

So use insulting and bashing only when you want to destroy something    (just a joke by the way in case anyone takes it seriously)

 

[(PSN)Tactless_Ninja]

4 minutes ago, Noamuth said:

That wasn't grind.  Everyone on the team got an item then, now only someone with a Relic equipped is rewarded - everyone else gets Void Traces.  

Sitting in a single session for hours bonking enemies and basically wasting time isn't grinding? You still have those rose colored glasses on? And why wouldn't you have a relic on? They're piss easy to find and nu endless hands them out every round like candy on Halloween.

[MagPrime]

Just now, (PS4)Tactless_Ninja said:

Sitting in a single session for hours bonking enemies and basically wasting time isn't grinding? You still have those rose colored glasses on? And why wouldn't you have a relic on? They're piss easy to find and nu endless hands them out every round like candy on Halloween.

Not everyone has time to grind for Era specific Relics, or even has enough standing with a Syndicate to get the Relic packs, and just about every endless Relic mission I run, at least one person says that ran out of Relics.

And it is grinding, it's just not the same to how it was. 

[ChuckMaverick]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

CORRECTION:

It is a "Free to PLAY game".

Question: How much have you invested in this game that has considerable costs that you can PLAY for free.

I know, I know...that darned inconvenient truth thing.

What are you talking about? Your comment has nothing to do with what the OP wrote at all.

It's not about whether anyone has invested in Warframe or not.

The OP is calling out people who try to shut down complaints with "it's a free (to play) game" as though that means it is somehow exempt from any criticism.

Free-to-play is just a business model that some companies choose to use for their games, they're not charities, they expect to earn money just the same as buy-to-play or sub-based games, and they can be criticised for their decisions just the same as well.

[Irorone]

Well the game has always had an element of if you want it faster use plat.

That said when the margin between plat acquisition and play acquisition changes, especially in any insane way like the Hema, there's plenty of logical reasoning why certain people would be upset.

Edited December 29, 2016 by Irorone

[Gremlin]

I know you're annoyed with the free game point, but people are wanting everything for no effort. How can you maintain something with little income coming from it? There's always complaints about anything with a price tag on these forums. The free 2 play model is very tough to get 100% in everyone's favor, and DE already pushes it quite well into ours. At least that's how I see it.

Edited December 29, 2016 by Ker-Blammo

[Irorone]

18 minutes ago, Ker-Blammo said:

I know you're annoyed with the free game point, but people are wanting everything for no effort. How can you maintain something with little income coming from it? There's always complaints about anything with a price tag on these forums. The free 2 play model is very tough to get 100% in everyone's favor, and DE already pushes it quite well into ours. At least that's how I see it.

The thing is there's a group getting generalized there.

Everything has build costs and wait times (usually 24 hours for a weapon, three and a half days for a frame not counting clan tech wait times) and certain select bits have considerable RNG.

Does that group want everything now?  No.  Do they want to avoid a scenario where the wait time is drastically inflated by resource hikes and rng walls?  Yes.  Everybody kind of expects new primes to be rare, especially now with the way relics work.  That said most people don't mind prime access packs for a few reasons, boosters are ENTIRELY optional since the things they boost are fairly easy to obtain anyway, most of what a prime access pack is involves cosmetics, and even though full built and potatoed primes are in said packs they are in game equipment you can obtain for free with play investment. 

Also the "FTP" model actually has a lot of money in it, for western markets at least, if they actually limit their cash shop items to stuff like skins and things that allow you to reduce or eliminate what was a reasonable wait time (and reasonably bypassable depending on the gameplay mechanic) to begin with. 

In something like path of exile they basically get by on skins and supporter packs for major updates.  Reason nobody cares that there's an exp booster in warframe is because you really don't need the booster to max out a frame or weapon in fairly short order anyway, it's basically there to shorten the forma-ing cycle for a time.  Now if a game like path of exile were to introduce a similar exp booster right before one their race seasons GGG would have hell to pay from their playerbase.  Basically they don't isolate the actual "FTP" players from their FTP game with their cash shop.

Edited December 29, 2016 by Irorone

[Miser_able]

The problem is, people have a bad habit of starting salty complaint threads under the guise of "feedback" and then get all butt hurt when people point out that there being salty so that's when "its a free game though" can be used to attempt to shut them down.

[Irorone]

23 minutes ago, Miser_able said:

The problem is, people have a bad habit of starting salty complaint threads under the guise of "feedback" and then get all butt hurt when people point out that there being salty so that's when "its a free game though" can be used to attempt to shut them down.

Except I've seen that used even under the Hema argument.

~100x cost increase on a single research project at a clan tier that can have up to 10 members.  Yet these are literally the "counterarguments" I saw when that math gets brought up.

"Oh what a clan has to work for something now"

"Maybe you shouldn't be a one man clan"

"Maybe you should cull your inactive members/downsize"

"Get a booster"

"Oh you want everything handed to you/now"

"It's a free game, you don't have to play"

"It's just one weapon you don't have to have it"

 

I have literally seen each and every one of these used to try and shutdown feedback. In a single thread even.

Edited December 29, 2016 by Irorone

[TENNO_NOT_FOUND]

While there are a slew of people that are plugging their ears and running the "its free so dont play if you're dissatisfied" mentality, and a slew of people who are complaining about what could easily be considered non issues, I don't think raising a thread berating them for their mindset will suddenly open them up to what appears to you to be reason.

While the complaints or criticisms may seem to be falling on largely deaf ears, there are a sizable amount of people, myself included, who have concerns at least in part. Instead of trying to win over people who obviously wont be swayed one way or the other, you should be trying to coax the lurkers into voicing their opinion on what's happening.

For example. I purchased Nidus alone, because I have used almost exclusively Chroma after my default Excalibur (though I have other frames), but I think the grind wall for players that choose not to go that route who want Nidus (and Hema for that matter) Is baselessly large (to a lesser extent for Nidus.)

This is the same playerbase that farmed the void for hours on end to acquire prime parts, so obviously they're dedicated enough to grind out something like this if they really want it as opposed to paying platinum, but at this point the resource cost just seems painful. If you're trying to coax people into buying Hema from the store, bundling it with excluive shinies is the way to go, not punishing the grinders. 

I'm willing to think this is an oversight from a dev who may have forgotten how rare mutagen samples are. 

[KaizergidorahXi]

44 minutes ago, Irorone said:

Except I've seen that used even under the Hema argument.

~100x cost increase on a single research project at a clan tier that can have up to 10 members.  Yet these are literally the "counterarguments" I saw when that math gets brought up.

"Oh what a clan has to work for something now"

"Maybe you shouldn't be a one man clan"

"Maybe you should cull your inactive members/downsize"

"Get a booster"

"Oh you want everything handed to you/now"

"It's a free game, you don't have to play"

"It's just one weapon you don't have to have it"

 

I have literally seen each and every one of these used to try and shutdown feedback. In a single thread even.

The real problem with the Hema is that we'll have to research it eventually to get any upcoming weapons from that lab, most likely.

[Hypernaut1]

43 minutes ago, Irorone said:

Except I've seen that used even under the Hema argument.

~100x cost increase on a single research project at a clan tier that can have up to 10 members.  Yet these are literally the "counterarguments" I saw when that math gets brought up.

"Oh what a clan has to work for something now"

"Maybe you shouldn't be a one man clan"

"Maybe you should cull your inactive members/downsize"

"Get a booster"

"Oh you want everything handed to you/now"

"It's a free game, you don't have to play"

"It's just one weapon you don't have to have it"

 

I have literally seen each and every one of these used to try and shutdown feedback. In a single thread even.

That's because people try to frame the Hema cost as nefarious greed instead of maybe just a bad decision.

The forums have a way of turning everything into some convoluted plot to bleed our pockets, despite the fact that there are much more efficient and direct ways for DE to do so if that was their true intentions.

 

[Irorone]

Just now, KaizergidorahXi said:

The real problem with the Hema is that we'll have to research it eventually to get any upcoming weapons from that lab, most likely.

Well there's a few other issues that stem from Hema's research cost but at the end of the day it's that exact thing that causing so many issues right now.